i dont know what the heck my problem is. last three projects have tanked. no components out of place....but i guess just "bad" soldering?
one, i totally redid and got it working, got sound.....but not "working" properly. i took meticulous time to get shiny solder joints too. wTf?! :icon_lol:
i did get some new solder before all this.....i had kester brand before. maybe i shoulda stayed w/ kester. i don't believe my iron is too hot. i have a good weller wlc 100. and i usually have it between "3 1/4" and "3 1/2". Seems to be plenty of heat. Grrrr. anyone else ever get into this sort of funk?
Yep, my last 2 and another I never did get working. I did get one of the last 2 working finally. I got a second set of eyes on it and they saw it right away.
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Yep Plexi I have lots of funky junk going on. Soldering iron, transcription from breadboard to pcb, switch wiring, forgetting to plug the guitar to input before testing envelope detector.
All kinda stuff.
I just call them "brain farts" and laugh them away.
Last one I had was cutting a 14/2 electric cable while having the wrong breaker off.
Let's just say that POOF scared the crip out of me.
But now I laugh about and know that I will be exceptionally careful when turning off breakers in the future.
> meticulous time to get shiny solder joints too
It can be shiny on top and totally un-stuck underneath.
Are the leads and pads DEAD clean? Can't solder to oxidation.
Good plan to pre-tin leads and pads separately so you can SEE the solder "WET" the raw metal surface, not just blob-up on oxide or gunk.
Electronics grade solder with rosin flux core?
Quote from: plexi12000 on August 17, 2016, 02:21:31 PM
i did get some new solder before all this.....i had kester brand before. maybe i shoulda stayed w/ kester.
Kester is great and all, but in my experience 60/40 rosin core is 60/40 rosin core. Radio Shack solder has never let me down. 63/37 has been fine too. The only solder that has caused me any frustration is lead-free, I hate that stuff. Did you by chance get some lead-free?
I've recently had this. After a long glorious period of successful builds, I hit a massive slump where nothing worked. I've had 3 go's at the Snow White Autowah! (I have a working build now)/
To be honest I don't really feel out of it but I decided to go back to smaller builds again and work my way back up. Seems to be doing the job.
flux rocks! ;)
I regularly have bouts where everything I touch is gold and everything powers up and works right out of the gate. These alternate with bouts where everything I touch turns to s***, nothing works, no matter how simple and "easy", and I can't seem to find the problem.
It happens. Wish it didn't, but it does. Fortunately, the one gives me hope that sees me safely through the other. :icon_smile:
Once I found a proper workflow, stuck to it and not get in a hurry my success rate went up quite a bit. Every time I have been bitten by a solder issue it appears to have been from being in a hurry and not taking the time at that time to confirm the joint.
Additionally, since I'm not a real production line, I have one of those all in one measuring tools which allows me to quickly do a final check on component values just before I place it on the board. I've found that 1 extra minute at build time = potentially hours of saved debugging time later.
Even though I've soldered in some form since I was about 8 years old (I'm 53 now), I still got a lot of value out of watching this entire series a few months back....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s&list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837
One other thing is to always be particularly aware if using a NOS part because their leads, are almost always gunked/tarnished in some way compared to new parts and if mixing the two the new parts create a false sense of security causing the NOS solder joint to be more likely to fail.
And finally a high magnification review using whatever you have (I use head gear and/or a USB microscope) once I'm done with the board, just before I throw it on the scope and start feeding it test signals.
It isn't like I don't have bad days but they surely went down exponentially once I started observing the above.
2 cents.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on August 18, 2016, 11:14:09 AM
I regularly have bouts where everything I touch is gold and everything powers up and works right out of the gate. These alternate with bouts where everything I touch turns to s***, nothing works, no matter how simple and "easy", and I can't seem to find the problem.
It happens. Wish it didn't, but it does. Fortunately, the one gives me hope that sees me safely through the other. :icon_smile:
Me too. I've been soldering since the late 1960s and I still have bad days. It's going to happen. Just expect it as a condition of life. I've been eating for a long time and I still get indigestion and gas sometimes. Shrug. :icon_lol:
Another view: Life may be a walk in the park, but sometimes you still have to clean your shoes.
Quote from: karbomusic on August 18, 2016, 11:17:34 AM
One other thing is to always be particularly aware if using a NOS part because their leads, are almost always gunked/tarnished in some way compared to new parts and if mixing the two the new parts create a false sense of security causing the NOS solder joint to be more likely to fail.
I always keep a little wad of #0000 steel wool and bits of fine sandpaper on the bench, and any component lead that isn't perfectly shiny, new or old, gets a quick wipedown. Often followed by a shot of spray cleaner. Well, that would be resistors, capacitors and such...not chips or anything with fragile leads. And obviously you don't want to leave steel wool fibers behind that could cause shorts.
Quote from: thermionix on August 18, 2016, 03:19:04 PM
Quote from: karbomusic on August 18, 2016, 11:17:34 AM
One other thing is to always be particularly aware if using a NOS part because their leads, are almost always gunked/tarnished in some way compared to new parts and if mixing the two the new parts create a false sense of security causing the NOS solder joint to be more likely to fail.
I always keep a little wad of #0000 steel wool and bits of fine sandpaper on the bench, and any component lead that isn't perfectly shiny, new or old, gets a quick wipedown. Often followed by a shot of spray cleaner. Well, that would be resistors, capacitors and such...not chips or anything with fragile leads. And obviously you don't want to leave steel wool fibers behind that could cause shorts.
I always buff my etched PCBs with superfine steel wool, wipe 'em with liquid flux, and tin them before they have a chance to tarnish. I'm sure there are places where boards don't tarnish with air exposure during the first week, but there are probably more places where what was shiny Monday morning isn't by Tuesday morning. Happily, solder doesn't oxidize nearly as fast as bare copper, so tinned boards can be drilled and safely put away for another free evening or weekend when you finally have time to get back to the circuit without having to worry about whether the joints will be cold on arrival.
any ideas on how to store solder to keep from going bad?
Quote from: LightSoundGeometry on August 18, 2016, 03:48:37 PM
any ideas on how to store solder to keep from going bad?
I don't think solder does go bad. It will oxidize, but is still usable. When you melt a metal, oxidization and other impurities tend to float to the surface as slag. Sometimes this will result in a cloudy looking solder blob, but the bond is still good. I recently used up some old solder that was very dull gray from oxidization, and it worked just fine.
Quote from: thermionix on August 18, 2016, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: LightSoundGeometry on August 18, 2016, 03:48:37 PM
any ideas on how to store solder to keep from going bad?
I don't think solder does go bad. It will oxidize, but is still usable. When you melt a metal, oxidization and other impurities tend to float to the surface as slag. Sometimes this will result in a cloudy looking solder blob, but the bond is still good. I recently used up some old solder that was very dull gray from oxidization, and it worked just fine.
I buy this and all I use
http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/solder-60-40-tin-lead-spool/
QuoteI don't think solder does go bad. It will oxidize, but is still usable. When you melt a metal, oxidization and other impurities tend to float to the surface as slag. Sometimes this will result in a cloudy looking solder blob, but the bond is still good. I recently used up some old solder that was very dull gray from oxidization, and it worked just fine.
Roger that. I'm using a spool that must be ~25 years old. I may not get that glassy shine but it's a good bond, usually. I always make sure I have a good mechanical connection before applying solder, so that components don't microscopically wiggle as solder is setting. Other than that, it's all about how you hold your mouth, a wise man once said.
> store solder to keep from going bad?
I'm still using reels I musta bought in the late 1980s.
Not sure what could "go bad".
Quote from: PRR on August 18, 2016, 05:15:01 PM
> store solder to keep from going bad?
I'm still using reels I musta bought in the late 1980s.
Not sure what could "go bad".
maybe I am applying too much solder or you have one hell of a roll of solder in the basement ! :D
(http://www.ripleys.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/foil-ball.jpg)
QuoteI always buff my etched PCBs with superfine steel wool, wipe 'em with liquid flux, and tin them before they have a chance to tarnish. I'm sure there are places where boards don't tarnish with air exposure during the first week, but there are probably more places where what was shiny Monday morning isn't by Tuesday morning.
Good point. In my hands I swear it starts tarnishing within minutes. :D I finally got tired of it and now hit them with a very thin coat of clear lacquer the moment I clean off the etchant and toner which lets me store them for a very long time. Usually, it's dry and can be handled within 120 seconds so I don't really have to wait for it to dry.
Quote from: thermionix on August 18, 2016, 03:19:04 PM
I always keep a little wad of #0000 steel wool and bits of fine sandpaper on the bench, and any component lead that isn't perfectly shiny, new or old, gets a quick wipedown. Often followed by a shot of spray cleaner. Well, that would be resistors, capacitors and such...not chips or anything with fragile leads. And obviously you don't want to leave steel wool fibers behind that could cause shorts.
Another good point, I do that too but can 'get in a hurry' and plain forget. I'm mostly in the habit now because I tend to notice the feel in my fingers.
Use a piece of scruffy pad (scotch brite). No concerns about metal fibers causing shorts. ;)
We used to have a number of printed circuit board houses we used (at one time there were 45 of them in the greater Toronto area) and one thing we found with all of them was that a nice shiny silvery board would be difficult to solder whereas a duller solder plating could be soldered readily. I have a roll of tin-lead solder in 0.032 inch and another that is much thicker and these will probably last a lifetime. I tend to use sandpaper on aged or corroded component leads (and I have radios dating back to 1925, so aged means 91 years old here) and 50% lead 50% tin was a common solder alloy used at the time.
I often need to use sandpaper to clean up leads before soldering. It really does cut through corrosion although it may also cut through plating so you should not use too much force on it. It is quite common for electrolytic capacitor leads to be plated steel as can be proven with a magnet, so they should be cleaned up carefully so you don't break through the plating.
Quote from: Hemmel on August 17, 2016, 03:53:59 PM
I just call them "brain farts" and laugh them away.
Last one I had was cutting a 14/2 electric cable while having the wrong breaker off.
Let's just say that POOF scared the crip out of me.
But now I laugh about and know that I will be exceptionally careful when turning off breakers in the future.
At work, we're required to try to turn on the device we're working on to see if it energizes in spite of the "correct" breaker being turned off. We're also required to check the wiring for voltage with a meter. Glad you're ok!
Quote from: PRR on August 18, 2016, 12:59:08 AM
> meticulous time to get shiny solder joints too
It can be shiny on top and totally un-stuck underneath.
Are the leads and pads DEAD clean? Can't solder to oxidation.
Good plan to pre-tin leads and pads separately so you can SEE the solder "WET" the raw metal surface, not just blob-up on oxide or gunk.
Electronics grade solder with rosin flux core?
Exactly this. When you take an IPC soldering class they have you scrub the board with 99.9% isopropyl and an acid brush. You then have to clean every lead with alcohol and pre-tin before putting the part in the board. Once the part is on the board you clinch & cut the leads, apply flux, and then solder. Doing it this "proper" way makes thru-hole assembly painfully slow compared to SMT hand assembly.
Before IPC training I'd just pop parts into the board, solder, and clip leads after soldering. A lot of boards worked. A lot didn't. I'd say that my yield has gotten better as my soldering technique improved.