I have built 3 or 4 pedals, and no matter how much time I spend debugging, no matter how careful I am in the building none of them work.
I just seem to be wasting money on parts and then having PCBs filled with parts sitting on my desk.
No fun anymore, I am getting nowhere.
You are in right forum. Just post some descriptions and info about your projects and maybe some measured voltages at critical points and helpful gurus give you advice. Hope so, I´m almost sure that guys here can blow some life in at least one of your projects.
P.S. Thats why I like EASY PROJECTS
Don't give up Benjamin!
Here is an example of how easy it really is. This site is excellent and I also think that there may be another like this around. Below is an example. shows you the wiring and all. I personally do not make my own boards, yet. So, in this instance. just connect everything that is connected using the parts and some wire. Just give it another try with for example the one below.
Peace and Good Luck. If you have any questions email me and I will walk you all the way through it!
Arn C.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/diagrams/joesodps.gif
Don't give up yet!
They may seem like total mysteries, but there are fairly simple ways to trace the problem down in your pedals. You will learn a great deal in the process.
Pick the simplest of what you have built. What circuit is it and what can you say about the construction?
With the right tools (super simple, cheap, & home-made), you can sometimes find the fault faster than you can open the box and remove the circuit board.
Take care,
-Peter
Well, I have been tracing the signal with the audio probe, and it does just fine until it hits the germaniums, and then I lose it. I am building a fuzz facish thing. I am not sure if I have wired the transistors backwards, or if they are dead. I am assuming backwards because they are matched trannys from small bear.
Soon as you get one going, you'll be jammin. My first one didn't go at first...had to keep messing with it.
Rirst thing is to find out what the pinout is on those tranny's...I don't knowoff hand but I'm sure we'll be able to find out...give a description of the transistors...is there anything asymmetrical about them like where one pin comes out of the bottom being offset, or a tab or other marking [are they tin can types...
If you have a basic neg. ground supply project, what is it, what isn't it doing, what have you tried to work on it etc...
I recommend LPB 1 or similar project for ease of construction and debugging etc....I use one all the time...They're nice I like it built a few...they're known to be good / easy / useful.
Using sockets and cheep available transistors allowed me to 'cheat' and find the tranny orientation I liked best by trying both ways [course the one that was in there the way that didn't work so well may have been damaged.. ~22cents]
ben~
i almost threw in the towel one time! turns out the jacks i had were the wrong type... it took me weeks to figure it out!
this may sound stupid, but when i finish a project that doesent fire up the first time(most of the time)... i sort of get exited! i have actually gotten to a plac e where it is exiting to debug these things! pretty nerdy!!
hth,
~ryanS
Do not give it up. Just pick the easiest one you have (you did try easy ones first I hope :wink: ) and follow the debugging page link at the top of the page here. Sounds like with the trannies you are close to knowing why they aren't doing there thing so don't get too discouraged.
You can do it. Do not throw the towel in. When you get through it all you will have working toys and more knowledge. Kinda sucks these things don't always work right away but it does get easier.
You do not want to know how many times I have wired a pedal backwards so the input is on the left side. Don't bonk your head too hard and don't get upset. It happens to everyone but trust me if you have gotten as far as you have you can go a little further and get through to the other side.
Stick it out you will not regret it in the long run :!: :!:
Benjamin: where are you located? Is there some other forumite nearby that could give you some hands-on help? Don't give up!
I gave up twice (to the extent of givig away all my parts & equipment!) so, it has been third time lucky for me... another encouraging thing might be, to contemplate Mark Hammers "cupboard of doom" that he showed us a while ago..
Don't give up! I lost a lot of money in projects that didn't worked too, and I gave up one time. But I gave another chance to the DIY world, and now I'm build all the effects that I need (not all, like the delays and flangers, but almost all), and I knew a lot of cool effects that I never heard about before (the Total Sonic Anihilation is one, now it's on my pedalboard). And I knew a lot of cool people in the forum too. Pick a simple effect, like the Bazz Fuss, and start with him. Then start to grow slowly, with more simple effects (Buzz Box heheh, but sounds very cool).
The first circuit I built used a cascaded dual opamp. It actually worked the first time I tested it. But I had a heck of a time with the footswitch, it was the wrong kind of DPDT switch, a momentary type. It took a while to figure out why it wouldn't work with the footswitch...
I have built a few that made me want to quit when I couldn't get them to work right. In fact the last thing I built, an envelope circuit, seriously tweaked me. It was doing some weird things that didn't make any sense to me. I eventually got it figured out, but I had to get past being frustrated and angry. This was a perfboard job. I usually have a lot better success using a PCB. It's really easy to screw up something on perfboard, at least for me. :)
PJM
Quote from: BenjaminWell, I have been tracing the signal with the audio probe, and it does just fine until it hits the germaniums, and then I lose it. I am building a fuzz facish thing. I am not sure if I have wired the transistors backwards, or if they are dead. I am assuming backwards because they are matched trannys from small bear.
What circuit is this? Can you give us a link?
Quote from: BenjaminI have built 3 or 4 pedals, and no matter how much time I spend debugging, no matter how careful I am in the building none of them work.
I just seem to be wasting money on parts and then having PCBs filled with parts sitting on my desk.
No fun anymore, I am getting nowhere.
what projects are you working on? What are you using to debug them? You should have at least a multimeter to test voltages and continuity and an audio probe is very helpful also.
You could try what I do.....
Buy some proto/bread board and make the effects on there first...That way you can see if you like your new fuzz/flange/whateva before finalising by soldering. You can also swap parts about easily to experiment with different values/opamps/trannies/diodes.
It also reduces the number of variables involved in debugging: ie no bad solder joints, no bad pcbs/traces, no heat damage to parts etc.
Youll know if the circuit works after building it on here...and if it dosent you can mess about with it till it does (just remember to let us know of ne changes to schemes :wink:)
And at the end of the day, if you dont like a circuit, or cant get it to work, chuck all the bits back in your parts bin :D
Ive only made a couple of effects so far but this seems to work for me....I through in my towel a couple of years ago after my first project (Guess what, I tried to go straight to soldering on my 1st homemade PCB as well )
:roll:
i give up all the time. i have bins filled with half-finished things that never worked right, and probably never will. giving up is part of moving on. you'll never be finished giving up. 8^)
first thing... turn those transistors upside down and look at them... arrange the equalateral triangle so that the symmetrical peak is at the top. most likely, the arrangement is E, B (peak), C.
It's great to see a forum where people are supportive of each other. Most places would have simply tossed your butt out and said "RTFM!" Each time I read this forum, I am simply amazed at how professional AND friendly everyone is. Benjamin, like everyone has said, don't let a few mishaps bring you down. Everyone has their moments but believe me, when you finally get that one fix/built, you'll never want to stop. In fact my first pedal was a simple distortion pedal, never worked so i canabalized the parts and built something else that did (Noiseswash!) What a great move that was :) Good luck!
Once you've been at this for a few years, you will begin to realize in your bones, just like the rest of us, how much *assumptions* about which pin is which are your constant and undying enemy. Cripes, it's almost like some kids cartoon or live-action series where the hero/es battle the same foe week in week out.
So, since you have a computer and a net connection, get yourself as many datasheets and pinouts as you can and save them for consultation. Some are available here but lots of similar sites have FAQ-type documents with common pinouts. You can also search the net using the part number and "pdf" as search terms (datasheets are almost invariably in pdf form).
Case in point. That "Woody" thing I posted recently. I built one, consulting with other schematics, liked it and decided to build another in a more compact form for a friend's son. Drew the schematic by cutting and pasting others and relabelling them. Built it from the schematic I had drawn and posted and Mr Dumbass here spent a few hours looking back and forth at the schem without ever realizing once that PIN ONE IS THE OUTPUT YOU MORON, NOT PIN 3. Once those were reversed, everything worked fine.
Which leads to lesson 2. Find out if the schematic is correct. People have gotten a lot better about it lately, but there is a long legacy of people posting schems that remained unverified, or else earlier versions were mirrored elsewhere without the corrections. Never hurts to ask if the version posted at site X is the latest.
In sum, then, your experience is completely normal. I would venture to say that all of us, including the experienced builders have weeks and sometimes months where absolutely NOTHING works, followed by weeks where we have the golden touch and simply cannot fail. It happens.
Quote from: Mark HammerOnce you've been at this for a few years, you will begin to realize in your bones, just like the rest of us, how much *assumptions* about which pin is which are your constant and undying enemy. Cripes, it's almost like some kids cartoon or live-action series where the hero/es battle the same foe week in week out.
Or it's like having to re-learn something over and over. Like, when is Wile E. Coyote going to learn not to look *down* when he runs off a cliff?
I'm starting to accumulate a little "drawer of doom" myself. Old leftover pcbs with stuff I've improved on or sounded good for about month, before my sense of hearing returned to planet Earth...
Benjamin, if you want some help, people on here will give it. But you will have to cough up some detailed info on what you are working on. It's impossible to help debug without the data.
Doug
In electronics you have to have a never say die attitude - never let silly inanimate things like circuits beat you. When you get stuck you just need to re-evaluate the situation, don't assume what you think is correct is correct start again, re-trace your steps, find a new angle! Put it this way, someone else has built it so just push ahead.
Just pick one, and work through it. Post the problem on the forum and eveyone can pitch in I'm sure it will work. The more you battle through the easier it gets, if you give up you will always hit these brick walls. If you haven't got one get a multimeter, get a cheap one $10 or less, you don't need a good one and they save you hours of time (and parts).
Benjamin--
Pick the simplest pedal of the ones you have, and try to get some knowledgeable, local help with going through the troubleshooting process. Once you have seen for yourself the kind of "just one little thing" errors that prevent a circuit from working, you'll be in better shape to work things out on your own. Possible resources might be a local tech or a teacher/student in an engineering school.
Don't give up! Everybody here has been through many, many hours of frustration before enjoying the reward of TONE!
SD
It's true. I've done so many stupid things, wiring Germanium transistors backwards, being stupid enough to wire the V batt and ground so it shorts (lol), then figuring it out like a whole year later... You have a big advantage though, in that there are lots of friendly people with knowledge and experience that you can go to for advice. Not trying to come off as some bitter fart (which I'm not, yet anyway, haha), but I would've killed to have a place like this to go to. Mainly I had this book which was a collection of DIY articles from a Japanese guitar mag, and not all of the info was correct, like the whatchamakalit--the PCB trace pattern. A Shin-ei Octaver copy PCB thingie was missing a ground connection, for example. I don't know how long it took to figure that out (after I laboured to make the board, wire in the parts, etc.). Or I look back and think what an idiot I was for believing some of the myths about point-to-point being superior over PCBs or whatever. I guess just wanted to get things to work and get a better sound so bad that I kept trying so I eventually started getting things to work (even though I'm still pretty far from knowledgeable). I think when it comes to troubleshooting, being systematic helps, not assuming (as Mark H. mentions) but making sure even if it's a pain in the ass. If working through and soldiering on is your style, then do it, but sometimes it's better to put it down and come back to it when you are fresh, later on or the next day or whatever. I think sometimes you can get in this sort of failure mode where you keep making the same mistake but you don't realize it for some reason. The failure is part of (what will be) your experience, so actually it has value, even though it may not feel at all like that at the time(LOL). Since we're not engaging in voodoo (or at least with the simpler efx), there must be a discernible SOMETHING (or thingS) that went wrong, so the trick is to figure out what it was. Did you overheat something, miswire something, not do a good solder connection, forget to plug in the battery, and on and on.
Dai
it took me about 6 months to get my first pedal working (bmp)....i think id put the trans in the wrong way....(n.b: sockets... :roll: :twisted: )
it kinda clicks eventually....then you'll be hooked and spend all you're nights getting more frustrated when things dont quite work :shock: :?
hehehe
sam
Go slow. Pre-plan. :idea: I almost always use the 'check-off parts on the schematic as I go' method :idea: , especially if I'm perf-boarding.
Regards
RDV
You're frustrated...boviously...we all get that.
However, you could at least post what ckt it is you're wuking on, ????whatzupp ??? [Total failure is NOT an option here!!!]!
No-one here pulls punches or legs that I've seen...everything here seems to me to be genuinly intended for your benifit.
You've got to want it real bad sometimes to get that first one werking.
Please use our efforts [and yours] to the best of your ability...you'll thank yourself for it in the long run!!!
I've smashed failed ckts beofre. No biggie. I usually do it in a premeditated fashion though, carefully stripping the valuables [caps etc] then savagely stomping' [no pun]...lol...very satisfying...every once in a while I think I need some better Stomping boots...tennis shoes work but lack that high end that leather heel boots provide!!!
If you want it bad enough you'll get it...I've had to build three of a ckt type to get one 'good' one...trial, error, and experience take time, temperance and diligence etc ...
Hang in there. The last fuzz face I built I spent a week trying to get the thing to work. I swapped ALL the parts, changed transistors, rebuilt it about 10 times and then realized I forgot to ground the stupid thing. That stuff happens all the time. Post your problems and someone is always willing to help.
If I could make a suggestion. Get a breadboard if you don't already have one. Small Bear sells them or a local supplier. You can't put a value on having one. You can build your circuits without soldering and can test all the mods you want. No solder/no boxes/no burnt fingers. Keep at it.
AL
Oh what the hell, give up!...Just make sure you start again first thing in the morning!!!
I recommend bread-boards too. If you get one I recommend an authentic WishBoard brand. I once bought a Faystar brand and it really sucks compared to the WishBoard, the components don't go in properly and sometimes I feel like smashing it :evil:. Also because the bottom plate is too thin the bananna pegs/sockets don't mount properly, the nut ends up tightening against itself and not the plate - I actually broke the screw while tightening it and wondered why it was still loose, then I saw the problem.
Thanks And Goodbye, Ben!!! Good Luck!!! Hope to see you soon!!!
Ben,
I understand your frustration. I've been building my first Fuzz Face for 2 months now and it still doesn't work right. It has taken everything I have to keep from throwing it against the wall!! But I keep asking myself why I started doing it in the first place. I wanted to understand enough about circuits to the point where I could build and troubleshoot my own pedals. When I don't understand something I have to ask more questions and do some more reading. I do understand one thing. This is not a hobby that I can get instant gratification from. I hate waiting for parts to arrive, (especially those vintage germainums only to find the entire batch is to leaky), I hate spending time at my in-laws when I could be home drilling holes in my enclosure, or waiting for the forum answers, you all know what I mean :wink:
Try to be patient and keep asking questions. My experience here is very limitied but everyone iseems to be very helpful and willing to answer your questions.
I would have to suggest to all who are trying their 1st circuit to try something simple, like an LPB, or a Silicon Fuzzface. For a Silicon Fuzzface, if you pick a low/medium gain transistor for Q1, and a high-gain for Q2, and go slow & watch your polarities & pin-outs you CAN make a circuit work and sound good in a few scant hours. I did. I started doing this in Febuary of this year and have now completed about 25 circuits. Read the FAQ of this site & GEO's, & then read them again. It's all there, I promise you. You have to have that first success so you'll want to keep going.
Regards
RDV
P.S.
A great 2nd project is my Si Tonebender in Schematics 2
Very easy to get working and sounds good 2!