I have never been perfectly happy with any distortion effect I have ever owned or tryed. I have found pedals that sound great through sh*tty solidstate amps that sound awful on my Tube(JCM900 50watt, 1936 2x12 yumyum;))
I thought building my own might solve this, but my first 2 projects were disapointing(Guv'nor and Shredmaster).
These have both been diode clipping/opamp based distortions...were should I go from here to find my elusive metal/nu metal sound?
Oh...I thought I would try out the FuzzFace as a one evning proj coz it looks easy and Id like to get that Jimi in a box sound ;)
Cheers guys,
Ally
PS I like the forum Aron....will the old stuff be archived?
At this point I'm not sure if any of this DIY stuff works for that type of music. If you're looking for that nice tight low crunch, I haven't come across a circuit that will do it. If someone does have that type of circuit, I'd like to hear about it.
Regards
RDV
Ive heard the Obsidian Transistor version is pretty good for that sound....oonly Joe seems to have dissapeared off the face of the Earth :(
Any one have the schema/pcb layout?
I have them, but they just sound like fizzier, more trebley fuzz face's to my ear. eMail me with a request and I'll send them to you when I get home from work(someone's got to earn the crust, don't I? :P ).
Regards
RDV
I built the Obsidian Transistor version, and I think you will find all the things that you want in this effect.
QuoteI built the Obsidian Transistor version, and I think you will find all the things that you want in this effect
I did too, but the low-end response is sorely lacking if you are trying to get a modern metal sound, it sounds very loose and kind of weak bass-wise. I also use a 50-watt JCM900. I did however leave out the 470pf caps from base to collector on Q1 & Q3 initially because I didn't have them. I installed them last night, but wasn't able to test it. They may be key to the circuit sounding tighter, because it was sounding an awful lot like a flatulent Fuzzface IMHO.
Regards
RDV
Disregard
Check out Double D from RunOffGroove
http://runoffgroove.com/doubled.html
I don't know if this is what your looking for but it sounds perty flexable... it would be easy to add a tone stack.
C
QuoteAllyP said:
...were should I go from here to find my elusive metal/nu metal sound?
I think the key to some of the heavier sounds lies in the use of E.Q.
A stompbox graphic E.Q.(cranked) will probably get you very close(if not all the way) to what you're after as far as a "new-metal sound. Also a 412(or 2 :twisted: ) cabinet helps.
HTH
RDV
You might try a pre and post eq. A parametric eq like one of the older boss ones might be a good one post. That marshall thump is at about 100 hz IIRC. The pre might be a 5 to 7 band one. A rat distortion might be a good starting piont for the middle. R.G. and others have posted about the use of Pre and Post eq in the past, at ampage.org etc.
Just a kidder...lotta guys are using Dual Rectifier {Tirples] or some such biggamppey stuff to get that modern metal death crunch ala Godsmack, Zombie etc. Actually I don't know exactly what those two bands are using but I'm using their tones as an example.
My experiences using an Eq [Boss 7band stomper] before Fuzz...I would agree...expecially "V" [or U] scooping the mids creates a pretty respectable metal crunch [well I had the tube amp+4x12'' thing going too...]
A lot of those guys do seem to use the dual/triple rectifiers...HAs anyone worked out what gives em that sound?
I'll try out some EQ experiments too...Is it worth making the eq? Like a 4 band parametric or summink :wink:
Any ideas on how to improve bass response i the Obsidian?
Cheers again,
Ally
QuoteAllyP said:Any ideas on how to improve bass response in the Obsidian?
Have you built one yet? You might think it's fine.
Regards
RDV
No not yet! I'm waiting for an e-mail with the schema/pcb from you :wink:
I emailed you this mornin....I take it you're @ work like me :(
Thanks in advance, from a cheeky little bugger :lol:
I would try messin' with the cap values. Making them a little bigger will let more bass through, but making them too much bigger will make everything muddy. IIRC, the coupling caps are all 0.01uF, changing them to a 0.012 or 0.013 may work. You could also incorporate pre and post distortion EQ's (simple low-pass filters) to help shape the sound, too.
It's going to be hard to replicate the sound of a dual-rectifier amp with a SS distortion. I don't know that it's possible, but you can probably come fairly close to getting that sound. You may just need to actually buy one of those amps to get that sound... even then, you may not be happy. There are all sorts of tricks they do in the studio to get certain sounds.
QuoteI'm waiting for an e-mail with the schema/pcb from you
Right! Fix you up when I get home.
Regards
RDV
Tube(JCM900 50watt, 1936 2x12 yumyum;))
It sounds like you are happy with the sound of your amp (yum yum) so why not just push it a little with a mosfet booster? Or push it a little harder with a mini booster. Both are quick, easy, and flexible.
Jered
QuoteI said:
They(Transistor Obsidian) just sound like fizzier, more trebley fuzz face's to my ear
Well...maybe not :oops:
I discovered that I left out the .1uf output cap. It made the tone control go from bad to worse.
And that's not all; I hooked the 9v+ to the wrong side of the rail resulting in horrible misbiasing of Q4 :oops:
This thing actually sounds pretty good now :D
Regards
RDV
I agree with the EQ recommendation posts, a 900 series Marshall has plenty of distortion (most models do it with clipping diodes, no less). Also, be resigned to the fact that you may NEVER find the tone you're looking for, especially considering the sound on a CD has been heavily post processed (again, that EQ thing).
Ever notice how some bands sound terrible live? I saw Cannibal Corpse in a club once (Chris Barnes era) and their tone sucked.
The above is a great point - the difference between live and recorded/processed tone is often times very great. If you can find a copy of the CD re-release of Judas Priest's Painkiller (first example of the top of my head, sorry) with the live tracks, listen to the difference between the live and studio versions of "Leather Rebel".
But yeah, what people said about EQ - that's a definite, major part of it. Traditionally the "metal" tone is all about the scooped mids, even more so than the heavier bass end - I imagine you could build a little unit to cut out the mids fairly easily, if you didn't want to bother with an EQ. (Isn't there a unit like that in one of the Anderton books? Or is it only boost?)
If yr looking for it all to come from a pedal the best I've used for that style is the Boss Metal Zone - It's actually quite surprisingly versatile when you get the hang of it, although it's probably a bit rough for a lot of things, I've managed to get great tone for all sorts of music from it. Make sure it's got fresh batteries, it's not one of those stomp boxes that sounds good when the batteries start to go. Basically, it helps for that music because it has a real nice EQ in it - you've got High and Low knobs, and a Mid range knob, and another knob which sets the frequency affected by the mids. For a good metal tone, I usually crank the bass up almost all of hte way, scoop out almost all the mids, set the mid freq somewhere around the center, and then roll on the treble until it sounds right. Adjust the distortion and level to yr amp. If you've got good amp tone, keep the distortion down a bit lower than you might think, but turn more level up to drive the amp a little harder and take advantage of that, if you're keeping the levels quieter or don't have such great amp distortion, do the opposite. (basically, I've get a good distortion going from the amp using it's settings and the level knob of the distortion box, and then roll on the distortion knob until it sounds good)
Most guitar centers should have one you can test out, see if they can't hook it up to a comparable amp to what you've got.
One thing I've noticed is that a lot of times with that metal sound, especially if yr playing something very percussive and rythymic, with odd time changes and lots of short stops inbetween the "chuggy" parts - (here is where I wish I knew the names so I'd have examples) is that it actually helps to have allmost all of your distortion come from a pedal, and not the amp, which is kind of wierd and opposite what I've always looked to do in any other music, but it seems to be the only way to get that over the top distortion sound, and still keep the feedback or noise to a minimum when you stop inbetween notes w/o having turn a pedal on and off at the end of every bar.
Most all of the locals I've seen do this style play with amps that have a ridiculously loud clean setting, and get all the distortion from the pedals.
All the pedals marketed at the metal sound, are, like the Boss I mentioned above, are basically distortions with built in EQs (either settable like the Metal Zone, or hardwired in there) for that sort of tone setting - the magic is really in the EQ though - so if your feeding that into your tube amp and it's sounding like junk, I'd actually try turning down the level or distortion on the pedal, so you're more just feeding the EQd signal into the amp and using the distortion part to add a little more bite to amps natural distortion.
I think I know what I meant to say and didn't say it well. In the middle of a 12 hour night shift. Sorry.
But yeah, I'd say build a mid-scooping, bass boosting tone filter and put that in yr chain.
is that theyre [Rectifier amps] using a hybrid transistor/[doide?]/tube preamp distortion, then the [rectifier tube's'], output tubes [and speakers] have thier way wiith the signal...one of those 'get that and you got 'IT' deals...not to say it can't be retro-replicated...there's probly a # of competitors amps [Crate? etc] that attempt it.
I also like the Boss Metal Zone. I don't play metal, but I like the tones I can get out of it. The EQ's really help you to shape the sound. I think it's great for lead guitar riff's and stuff. Nice and thick.