Give me your opinions. What is the best wah pot out there for me to put in my Vox 847?
Im looking for smooth movement and taper.
correct me if im wrong but if i recall correctly its a liner taper pot in a wah.
any 100K pot should do the trick but get something heavy duty.
i know i saw one today but im looking now and forgot where it was...someone else will chime in soon
I like the fulltone Wah pot.
It's 100K and it's not linear.
It has a custom taper.
Very durable in terms of long time use, but be careful with the soldering iron.
In terms of long time usage, I like the Clarostat-style conductive plastic pots.
When people talk about wah pots, what they are often talking about is the sense of smooth control over wah centre frequency. That is certainly a product of the pot, but also a function of the mechanical coupling of foot-to-pot. On my own home-brew wah, I'm fine with the pot taper and tone, but the mechanism seems to "grind", reducing the sense of immediate control one desires.
Which leads me to ask the question: When it comes to the rack and pinion systems that translate foot motion to pot movement, what sorts of choices are there in the available parts? I mean we see varieties of gear ratios in guitar tuners. Are there options available in terms of gear ratio in rack and pinion systems? Are there better and worse ones? For instance, does a wider mechanism that distributes foot pressure over a broader portion of the pot shaft feel "smoother"?
I just find it odd that we spend so much time discussing the thing being controlled, and so little time and effort discussing what lets us control it. It starts to be a bit like talking about precision drill bits and never once bringing up the topic of drills, chuck quality, etc.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 24, 2006, 08:06:59 AM
When it comes to the rack and pinion systems that translate foot motion to pot movement, what sorts of choices are there in the available parts? I mean we see varieties of gear ratios in guitar tuners. Are there options available in terms of gear ratio in rack and pinion systems? Are there better and worse ones? For instance, does a wider mechanism that distributes foot pressure over a broader portion of the pot shaft feel "smoother"?
I don't remember seeing any alternative rack and pinion systems with different ratios.
I believe that the Wah pedal requires some
magic in the foot, except for the electronic parts, in order to make it sound good.
I mean, if the player just bounces the rocker up and down all the time, what's the need of a man controlled wah instead of an auto-Wah?
Great Wah sounds come when you spend some time to
discover the taper of the pot more "deeply",
so to move the rocker within areas of the sweep that bring the "magic" out better...
I have done that in mine, and i can say that the experience is really great.
I also found that i can "interact" with the pedal better when i play barefoot... :icon_mrgreen: (yes, i wash my feet)
this way there's nothing between my foot (size 11+) and the pedal, so every little motion can be transfered to the shaft of the pot...
btw, (foot) size matters....
regarding gear ratios, i guess they got it right back then when they first made the Wah Wah pedals, so why worry?
You know, honestly, I think the Dunlop Hot Potz II is the best that I have tried. And they last forever, too.
thanks for the feedback guys.
as for what Hammer was saying, I took my v847 completely apart and lubed all moving parts up with graphite, especially the rocker hinge. It helped a lot. and I made sure there wasn't too much pressure from the piece that holds the rack against the pinion. but when I had the pot out I knew thats where the problem was. It just didn't have smooth movement.
If there's anything else out there I'd like to hear it. Right now I'm thinking I'll go with the Fulltone, I like the way the Clyde feels.
Paul, I like your thoughts on wahs,.. :icon_smile:
how do you like the hotzpotz II compared to the Blacktop or Propot? As far as being close to the old Vox Clyde McCoy wah pots... (ICAR)
Quote from: Paul Marossy on July 24, 2006, 10:03:34 AM
You know, honestly, I think the Dunlop Hot Potz II is the best that I have tried. And they last forever, too.
I've come across a 200k Hot Potz II that I liked even better than the 100k (I think they use it for some volume pedal they make). Another one that's my all time favorite is the Dunlop re-issue ICAR 100k that they are putting in the new VOX Clyde McCoy's. I don't like the Fulltone versions at all. The Teese Roc-Pot and the knock-off Pro-Pots are very good too (I hear they are both made by the same company [CTS] and are identical with just the names stamped as the difference) both being 200k.
QuotePaul, I like your thoughts on wahs,..
how do you like the hotzpotz II compared to the Blacktop or Propot? As far as being close to the old Vox Clyde McCoy wah pots... (ICAR)
I don't know how they compare to the old Clyde McCoy pots, but I like how they sweep the best of the ones that I have tried (and I haven't tried them all). The ProPot replacement in my Vox Wah is OK, but the sweep doesn't seem as wide as the Hot Potz II is.
QuoteI've come across a 200k Hot Potz II that I liked even better than the 100k (I think they use it for some volume pedal they make)
Hmm... I didn't know that they made a 200K version.
I ordered a 100k Hot Potz II a while ago and the company I bought it from sent me a 200k by mistake. They said it was for a Dunlop volume pedal but I've never been able to find out which one. I got to keep it for free (yea!!!) and got a 100k replacement. It has a much nicer sweep over the 100k Hot Pots II. The Roc-Pots/Pro-Pots have a very similar sweep but I suspect the 200k Hot Potz II is made better.
I still think that folks should temporarily pop the back off their wah pot and apply some of this Stabilant stuff I keep ranting on about.
Keep in mind that no matter HOW fabulous the pot is, the fact remains that the pot works by having a wiper (note the name) that rubs against the resistive element. Obviously you can have better and worse resistive elements and more and less abrasive wipers (REALLY good pots seem to have wider resistive elements and consequently wider wipers with multiple independent contacts, kinda like those 2-Tek bridges), but the fact remains that pots work by one thing rubbing against another. And wah pots work by having that thing rub a LOT. As pots go, think about how many times in one night's gig you might move your guitar volume pot backwards and forwards. Now compare that to how many times a wah pot gets moved back and forth over the same period of time.
All that rubbing erodes the resistive element, and eventually you get those little micron-wide gaps in contact. They're not huge, and a well-designed wiper system will be able to overcome such erosion and still maintain reasonably good contact, but even so, such teeny tiny gaps can be like jumping across a gorge for the signal. Stabilant coats the surfaces and fills in that gap. It also provides a certain amount of viscosity.
Of course, it bears noting that we are talking about multiple dissociable pot parameters here:
1) The usable crackle-free lifespan
2) The mechanical feel
3) The resistive taper
Treatment of the resistive strip will address #1 but not the other two.
For me, the mechanical feel has mostly to do with the the workings of the wah shell. The pot is a very small part of the equation.
thanks paul and others..
I will have to look for that 200K Hotzpotz II. Seems like it maybe good and reliable.
I think I never tried the Dunlop ICAR 100K,you say that is in the vox clyde reissues,..is that in the Dunlop GCB-95's too?
edit*
sometimes my wah will be stiff and rigid, and i have to physically readjust the angle of the pot to the gears, and on the propot's, if you put the 2 BIG washers together or on each side of the casing it feels different.
Quoteon the propot's, if you put the 2 BIG washers together or on each side of the casing it feels different.
I have noticed that, but to me it's very subtle change. I think the reason it feels different is because of where that rack contacts the gear - the closer to the pot body, the less play it has and the further out you go, the more play it has (meaning how much the pot shaft can sway).
Quotethanks paul and others..
I will have to look for that 200K Hotzpotz II. Seems like it maybe good and reliable.
I think I never tried the Dunlop ICAR 100K,you say that is in the vox clyde reissues,..is that in the Dunlop GCB-95's too?
I've found these Dunlop reissue ICAR 100k pots to be the best and closest to the original so far. They are made for the new reissue VOX Clyde McCoy and are made very well. Not as well made as the Hot Potz II or the Roc-Pots/Pro-Pots, but better made than the Fulltone pot. They do not put these in the GCB-95's, only in the newer reissue VOX Clyde McCoy.
Any body know where I can buy these ICAR Dunlops?
mr hammer hit the nail on the head ;)
(great time for a pun!)
I just replaced the stock pot in my Dunlop Wah with one of the black top 200k pots from small bear. I think that the pot in addition to the Teese mod to simulate the ICAR taper (switch the .22mf feeding the wiper with a .33mf) makes for an awesome sweep range, and much less expensive than the Hot Potz or even FT pots.
QuoteI just replaced the stock pot in my Dunlop Wah with one of the black top 200k pots from small bear. I think that the pot in addition to the Teese mod to simulate the ICAR taper (switch the .22mf feeding the wiper with a .33mf) makes for an awesome sweep range, and much less expensive than the Hot Potz or even FT pots.
I have one of those Blacktop pots in my 70's Vox wah (had to be replaced).
Hi,
I have been using one of the cheaper ones that ce distribution/tubesandmore.com sells for 3+ yr now. I also have used quite a few them for repairs at the shop where I am a tech, and have had no complaints yet. You could buy a new v847 for the same price of the bench fee and a hot pot.. so most customers opt for the entry level priced pot.
In my opinion I think a lower Hfe transistors helps increase the sweep more in a crybaby than the type/taper/brand of pot.
Also having the ability to "dial in" the mechanical parts really helps to.
here is the CE part #: R-VWAH-LP
snowed in in Colorado,
ry
I always use the 200k Blacktop.
I love the way that you have to use the entire throw for the wah sound. It's not crowded in a small area. There have been a few people who like that small "sweet spot" in 100K pots, so I second Paul on the 100K hot potz II when it comes to the 100k ones. I have tried all of them for various customers.
Sean
QuoteThere have been a few people who like that small "sweet spot" in 100K pots, so I second Paul on the 100K hot potz II when it comes to the 100k ones.
I really do think those Hot Potz IIs are some great wah pots. They work for me, anyway. :icon_wink:
I think you need that narrow sweet spot to do the whacka-whacka porn movie soundtrack/theme from Shaft thing. (which is what the wah is all about, right?)
Dear Mark Hammer
I agree totally with you that using a pot in a wah pedal is like wearing button up shoes. I am aware that sometime ago Morley had a system where they used light and some sort of shutter, (I never owned one so I don't know, but I do recall they were BIG.)
Okay now that you've asked the question, what solution comes to mind, that can be implemented, given the resources of the common man? :icon_redface:
I have seen a few set ups where a LED/LDR arrangement was used, this took care of the noise factor, and wah pedals are noisy. :icon_mad:
Though a pot still had to be used.
Answering a question with a question, don't you hate that! :icon_biggrin:
Yours Sincerely
Mark Abbott
QuoteI have seen a few set ups where a LED/LDR arrangement was used, this took care of the noise factor, and wah pedals are noisy.
Though a pot still had to be used.
Yep, you still need a pot in the wah circuit with an LED/LDR arrangement - that is what varies the resonant frequency. The idea behind the LED/LDR thing is that you are electrically isolating the pot from the rest of the circuit, and so you can't ever have a scratchy pot sound as a result.
Got an order shipped from SB for the Jfets and a 200k wah pot.
The pot that's in there...I've been thinking of replacing for a while [last thing from the original except many of the caps and resistors...lol].
I may like trying the option...for trimming it down to about 100k using one side of an SPDT switch to try different trim resistors between lugs 1/2 and lugs 1/3...should be interesting.
I put the new Black 200k I recieved from SB today in my Wah.
While I was at it I also installed a switch for inserting 2 x 100k fixed resistors between the 3 pot lugs.
Yupp, big change in sweep smoothness.
Toe down fully, switching between the 200k pot and 100k pot equivalent increases treble slightly, the main difference being that it's a quicker sweep @100k.
200k being nice for 'fine tuning' and 100k for 'snappier' wah sweep, works great.
I'm not missing the 'lump in the sweep' I had.
Finally a wah with no complaints, works great...yupp I re-adjusted all the trimpots to...about back where they were...lol.
QuoteYep, you still need a pot in the wah circuit with an LED/LDR arrangement
Sorry Paul. A Morley Bad Horsie doesn't use a pot. Step on it it wahs, step off it's off. (not true bypass) Schematics on their website.
I actually use two wah's live. The Morley (heavily modded-stock it sounds like crap) for quick on the fly stuff and most other stuff. I use a GGG drop in with output buffer for those occasions where I'm just using it like a filter or tone control. Think : the solo to Whole lotta love.
Because the Bad Horsie is a VOX circuit with added led/ldr stuff, it can be modded easily.
Cheers!
Huh, no pot? That's interesting. I was thinking more along the lines of when you mod a wah pedal with an LED/LDR combo when I said whatever I said. :icon_wink:
Here's the Morley Bad Horsie (model VAI-1) schemtic: http://www.morleypedals.com/vai-1es.pdf
Can someone tell me how the heck this thing works?! I don't see what controls the sweep... :icon_confused:
Maybe they're using the 'sleeping glasses' technique they use on the Morley Phase Shifter,as the pedal moves toward tow down it introduces a light barrier [a 2'' square of light blocking fabric] between the light source and LDR's.
QuoteMaybe they're using the 'sleeping glasses' technique they use on the Morley Phase Shifter,as the pedal moves toward tow down it introduces a light barrier [a 2'' square of light blocking fabric] between the light source and LDR's.
Hmm... that sounds plausible.
Pete's pretty close :) It's actually a piece of plastic with holes in it connected to the rocker pedal. Pushing the toe down gradually introduces more light to the LDR. There are, for some reason two led-ldr arangements. The first one lets all the light trough pretty early, the second one when toe is almost on top. Possibly to give ita "logaritmic feel"?
I did notice the pair of LED/LDRs. I figured one of them was for the auto on/off feature or something...
A few pics to compensate for my somewhat clumsy description ::)
"Neutral"-heel down:
(http://www.fotoknudsen.no/archive42/090120071757ciB9rzntSxOeo8JCkv/medium/090120071826CmOWybfa4wLUnXbfdn.jpg)
Toe down:
(http://www.fotoknudsen.no/archive42/090120071757ciB9rzntSxOeo8JCkv/medium/090120071858DR7CVZyrWRsy8CyU5n.jpg?56)
From above:
(http://www.fotoknudsen.no/archive42/090120071757ciB9rzntSxOeo8JCkv/medium/09012007175532Qyj1J5oRbgMb8qlb.jpg)
Ah, now it's making more sense. Pretty clever. :icon_cool:
The Fulltone pot sounds like crap in my wah when compared to the 100k Black Bear from Smallbear. There seems to be way less treble to the wah...why on earth would this be? And yes, I did index the pot.
Quote from: boogietube on January 08, 2007, 09:06:41 PM
Because the Bad Horsie is a VOX circuit with added led/ldr stuff, it can be modded easily.
Cheers!
are you serious!??! which morley wah's exactly? and are the same mods we all love and use for vox/crybaby wah's (i.e. q, mids, range etc etc) applicable to the morleys?
Quote from: YouAre on January 10, 2007, 11:04:36 PM
Quote from: boogietube on January 08, 2007, 09:06:41 PM
Because the Bad Horsie is a VOX circuit with added led/ldr stuff, it can be modded easily.
Cheers!
are you serious!??! which morley wah's exactly? and are the same mods we all love and use for vox/crybaby wah's (i.e. q, mids, range etc etc) applicable to the morleys?
Wow! boogietube is right! I didn't notice earlier. The only difference, except for switching and the lack of a potmeter is the opamp buffers :icon_eek:
QuoteThe Fulltone pot sounds like crap in my wah when compared to the 100k Black Bear from Smallbear. There seems to be way less treble to the wah...why on earth would this be? And yes, I did index the pot.
Don't know the answer to that, but the one Fulltone pot that I have is not at all what I expected - it's basically just like a cheap Alpha pot. I can't see it lasting longterm. :icon_rolleyes: