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Hi all,

Im currently working on clones of the meatball, ring stinger, brown source, and big cheese. They are coming together nicely but as ever I have my eye on the next project. I've heard on the internet that a clone of the wobulator is in existence and was wondering if anyone has any information on it. I have some gut shots of the lovetone but they aren't clear enough to piece together a schematic.

If anyone has any photos of either of these pedals could they post them so I can begin to get them cloned. I think I'm correct that neither of these pedals are still in production so hopefully this isn't treading on any toes. 

Hopefully this will be fruitful for all.

Thanks in advance for any help.

That clone was mine ;)
I have made a few and have, with every one, run into the trouble again that it seems the design is pretty much tweaked on the components available. This meant that if somewhere in the circuit a component was used that was different in spec's (example the LED's used) that could cause other parts of the circuit not to work correctly. A normal LED in the front panel would cause the right channel LFO to "hang" meaning low current LED's were required. Furthermore the wob circuit is extremely sensitive to ticking noises radiated by the square wave part of the LFO's.

Wrapping up, it took me too much time to build one.
As for the schematic, I do share some of my reverse work but not all. Not this one. sorry.

Thanks for the quick reply, sounds like it was quite a task and judging by your site you are waaaaayyyy ahead of me on technical proficiency. I think I my have to put the wobulator idea on the shelf!.

The 4ms Tremulous Lune works in a very similar way (optically), and has all kinds of extra options to pick and choose from, if all you're after is just a stereo tremolo that will do what lovetone's does. 

hey shed,  those four loveclone projects are great, I've been looking to finish the entire set as well. I know the doppleganger project exists, but as its rather complex, I'm more interested in doing the '?' Flanger with no name  first. if you want to team up and scrouge for reverse engineering data, let me know

we need to find someone who knows a guitar shop that has these pedals on rent, get them to rent it for a day, and take pics/ write down the values

Are you sure a day is enough?
Double sided boards etc makes revirsing quite a PITA, especially fo the more complex lovetones like the ?

I think it could be done with a one- or two-day rental but the pics had to be really high-res and the values had to be sure.
The pics I have from the component side are unfortunately too blurry to even think of rev-engineering. You just can see that there are a lot of trannies.
If they are not labelled I'm pretty sure it will be a lot harder to rev-engineer (at least for me).

However, with some really good pics, best a couple of each PCB side and also detailed views from the jacks and switches I'm very confident the ?Flanger could be done. Provided, the part values are clear.....
Just my 2c...

Markus

Quote from: Rectangular on February 23, 2007, 10:58:54 AM
I know the doppleganger project exists.

It does?  I'd love to see it - the Dopp is on my short list of things I must build/own.

Quote from: markusw on February 23, 2007, 12:45:57 PM
. Provided, the part values are clear.....

OK....
Expect sanded IC's as a starter ;),

The ? will undoubtly contain a BBD somewhere. Make use of reference schematics and Mark Hammer's BBDementia file to determine the type. Furthermore try to have a scope at hand to be able to measure minimal and maximal clock times, LFO waveforms etc etc. This will give you a lot of help setting up your clone.

dirk: from what I've seen, lovetone was a very cheap no-BS company, all their boards are single-sided and rely on very easy to find components. I've broken down the complete layout/parts list of a pedal in about 5-6 hours,  its even easier if you have a scanner or digital camera with good macro capabilities

the "?" Flanger has a daughter board, much like the audio transformer/diode ring  portion of the Ring Stinger. I'll bet 300 bucks it also contains at least one LED/LDR combination in plain sight. I'd also wager most of what's in the ?Flanger¿ we've already seen in the other LT pedals. some tl074's, maybe those BC549's

I'm completely down for cloning this thing, we just need some pics

-wreck tangle

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=52565.0

The BBD seems to be a MN3207 + a  MN3102. There is just one (sanded) IC which suspiciously looks like a quad opamp  ;)
From the pics I can't say whether the about 16 trannies are labelled.
And of course there are a couple of LED/LDR combos  ;) Interestingly, there is also a OEP1200 audio transformer.... :icon_question:

QuoteFurthermore try to have a scope at hand to be able to measure minimal and maximal clock times, LFO waveforms etc etc. This will give you a lot of help setting up your clone.

This would be great!! At least the clock freq ranges would be fine.

Quote from: Rectangular on February 23, 2007, 01:03:27 PM
all their boards are single-sided

The wob is not.. ;)

Quote from: Dirk_Hendrik on February 23, 2007, 01:24:23 PM

Quote from: Rectangular on February 23, 2007, 01:03:27 PM
all their boards are single-sided

The wob is not.. ;)

Interesting! Must have been a different version than the one I've seen pictures of (v3).

Just had a look at the pics again....seems the trannies in the ?Flanger are labelled  :icon_biggrin:

markus - where are these ?flanger pics ?  I'd love to have a look at them

dirk: really ?  double sided ? I would have thought the tremolo effect would be the simplest of the lovetones, excluding the cheese/brown source of course. there seem to be a few different revisions, I think the white/black jacks and black or blue paint jobs are the tell-tale for that

It's actually not correct that they are blurry..there are simply too many details missing for a serious attempt...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/markusw/2.jpg)

hey markus, is that the original image size, and are there any other shots ? is the photographer/owner known, do you think we could coax them for more info ?

q14 seems to be a BC3078, but I think its an exception, the rest are probably generic (dare I say bc549)

there are a few interesting bits, theres  some kind of resistor/diode tangle on the right side, and there's that big orange thing in the  top right corner, some kind of inductor ?

three LED/LDR combos ! score

-rec

Hey rec,

there are a couple of other pics but trust me, you won't gain much more information than from this one.
The big organge thing is a OEP1200 audio transformer.

Quoteresistor/diode tangle on the right side

That diode, resistor conglomerate is really interesting!

Quoteis the photographer/owner known, do you think we could coax them for more info ?

Yup, but he is far too busy to make a part's list and to take more pictures. Also he isn't really happy with the idea of disassembling his unit risking a damage.

Its fantastic to see so much interest in getting these cloned and their secrets unlocked. Thank you puretube for posting that link for the doppelganger images they are some great images of the board side which should help a lot. Has anyone got any of the component side so i could begin to construct a schem even without values! Its really sad that they have stopped making these units commercially because they are so highly respected. I look forward to any future light we can shine on this to create a full back catelogue of loveclones.

The idea of hiring one is great and i will try and look into where i could do that. I know that a few famous guitarists live near me and are mentioned on the endorsement list of lovetone maybe ill go and knock on their doors!

markus- 

if he's a time=money kind of guy, perhaps we could all chip in a couple bucks, and get a pool/fund going. if we can get 20-30 bucks worth of convincing, maybe he'd be less reluctant to sit down and write the values of that flanger.

of course, if he really hasn't the free time to do this kind of thing, that's another story

shedFX- I'm always enthusiastic about these cloning projects  :icon_biggrin:,  I learn a lot better from reverse engineering

-wreck

Quotemarkus- 

if he's a time=money kind of guy, perhaps we could all chip in a couple bucks, and get a pool/fund going. if we can get 20-30 bucks worth of convincing, maybe he'd be less reluctant to sit down and write the values of that flanger.

of course, if he really hasn't the free time to do this kind of thing, that's another story

To be honest, I think we'll have to wait for another opportunity....

QuoteI learn a lot better from reverse engineering

That's definitely true in my case too. Before starting with rev-engineering the Ring Stinger I didn't have an idea how VCOs, LFOs....work.
I did all the schem drawing in LTSpice. This was really helping a lot for seeing how it works. Also it helps finding severe bugs in the schem.

Markus

Here's a schem for the Wobulator v3 I did about a year ago. I never built it because I mainly rev-engineered it out of curiousity but I'm very confident that the schem is correct. Also when simulated in LTSpice everything  "worked" as supposed.

http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/Wobulator_v3.pdf (http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/Wobulator_v3.pdf)

Have fun!  :)

Regards,

Markus

Wow Mark, what can I say?!?!?!? Thank you that is absolutley awesome. I will now have a go at sorting out a layout for it and posting it in the next few weeks. I am excited beyond words! (You know you are a pedal geek when .......)!

Thanks again

Shed

IIRC, my Doppelganger has that kind of fliptop PCB where you`re able to look at the component- and at the copperside at the same time?

Hey Telefunkon, would it be possible for you to take some hi-res photos of the component side and provide some capacitor values. It would be a great help!

Thanks in advance  :icon_smile:

Quote from: Shed_FX on February 25, 2007, 02:29:25 PM
Wow Mark, what can I say?!?!?!? Thank you that is absolutley awesome. I will now have a go at sorting out a layout for it and posting it in the next few weeks. I am excited beyond words! (You know you are a pedal geek when .......)!

Thanks again

Shed

You're mostly welcome! Glad you like it  :)

Markus

Right so with the schematic provided by Markus I have created a layout for the Wobulator. I have not been able to do it to match the Lovetone board like the String Ringer project but it is pretty compact. It is the first layout I have ever done so your comments would be much appreciated. I was hoping that someone could check this over for me and point out any glaring errors. The next stage will be to add on the rotary switch parts of the layout which I will do once it has been verified. From there I will hopefully compile the whole thing into a project file with info on all the components (similar to the String Ringer).

Thanks to anyone who checks it and I look forward to hearing your comments.

Thanks Shed

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/ComponentLayout.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/TraceLayout.jpg)

hey shed,
sadly i cannot help at this stage of checking but once a prototype project file is out i´ll be happy to build it and help with the debugging (if there is any  ;)).
but i highly appreciate this attempt and your work.

cheers,
lowstar

Right I have nearly completed the layout of the Wobulator but I have a couple of problems. To simplify the layout and to make it compact I have drawn it with two quad op amps. I am however worried that by combining the different elements on the same chip may result in audible ticking. Is this suspicion founded or will I just have to try building the circuit to see if it ticks. I know dirk said that this circuit was very prone to ticking and I have heard a number of people who owned a real version complain about the noise of the oscillator. What do you guys think? Is there anyway of predicting it or is there some methods I can employ to reduce the likelihood of ticking.

Thanks

If everythings on the same chip you can't do much if that's were the problem is.  I did made a small clone chorus with a BYOC board, which I thought ill advisedly used a quad opamp (LM324)for the LFO and signal stuff, but was very suprised that it didn't tick. Who knows, maybe your layout is just fine the way it is.

  Someone said 'ticking'...I would start with Dual Opamp design..

good show! but i would re do that schem with moosapotamus's larger traces + parts pack... the default values won't etch in the least!


or are you going to get these done by ExpressPCB?  :icon_cool:

Just a quick wobulator update. After completing the layout using two quad op-amps (mainly done for simplicity and reducing space on the board) i thought S#?T! this thing is probably gonna tick and should probably do it how Mr Coggin's designed it,with dual op-amps. Since then i have gone down the route of using 4 dual op amps in this circuit instead of 1 quad and 2 duals just to split it down a bit further. So this is the 4xDual layout:

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/WobulatorTraceFinal-Jumpers-Switche.jpg)

The board size is 20cm x 9cm

Its in its basic form and i haven't checked it thoroughly yet. The plan is to check it through this week and then begin sorting out all of the bits to make it. Ive been working on a project file and piecing all the formalities together so we can have a complete fully confirmed clone. I will post a final layout that im going to use as the prototype incase anyone else wants to have a go. Its all on its way!

I'd like to that everyone who supplied any information or support for this project and hopefully people should get some enjoyment out of it!

Take it easy and I'll post an update soon.

P.S. Has anyone else got any more photos of the doppelganger? Or even better has anyone got one they can take photos of! I really want to build the full set (well maybe not the flange!)!

Cheers

Shed

TickTickTick....

Do try to eliminate the 90 degree angles in the traces. At least for the Square Wave part of the LFO's. These traces wil really work as a transmitting antenna.

how bout having the two rotary switches on a daughterboard so everything would fit in a 1590D ?

cheers,
lowstar

Hi Dirk,

Thanks for the advice but can I clarify what you mean? Should I round off the corners of the right angles or should I try and give them short 45 degree sections. After you posted the comment I did look at the lovetone board and think there maybe a reason for using 45's instead of right angles.

Thanks in advance for any further advice you can provide.

Thanks again

Shed

Evening Gentlemen,

Thought I would start my bank holiday weekend by putting the final touches to my wobulator clone with my proposed circuit layout. I got the LED's flashing last night and everything seemed to be going quite well. I have just finished things off today and plugged it in.....

I have a tick (As predicted by Mr Hendrik!) The circuit itself works well and the layout was pretty much correct (from a schematic point of view) The tick is there and it only really noticable at high volume but would like to get rid of it if I can. I believe that some of the production wobulators has a tick problem as well. Are there any quick fixes or methods of reducing the level of this tick. I had thought of wether coating the copper trace side of the board with goop! An extreme measure but would it work. The problem is, that I've got this far and really don't want to have to go all the way back to the beginning. The basic circult is arranged as above. I have run traces for connecting on board rotary switches.

I thank people in advance for their help.

Shed  :(

Cool!! 8)

Glad you got it working!

Regarding tick I can't really comment. You could try to add a cap to the LFO opamp (from V+ to gnd), maybe temprarily solder it to the trace side...... Maybe it helps.

Markus

Thanks for the quick reply Markus! Ive just had a bit of a play and putting a 10uf cap across the op-amp reduces the ticking by at least half! Its now at a level where I really don't mind the tick! Ive got to fully test it with 2 amps for the panning effects and so forth but I think its going to be ok. I will mess around a bit more with the capacitor value a bit further to check it out!
Won't have time to do all the testing this week but should hopefully be all done by next friday, then I'll put together a project document.

Cheers,

Shed

Great one! :)

Quote from: Shed_FX on May 04, 2007, 12:27:08 PM
I believe that some of the production wobulators has a tick problem as well.

You're right in that.  ;)

Congrats with the work so far.

The testing is going quite well, I just thought I would post an update. I originally had the circuit running on 4JRC4558 as they were the only ones I had laying around. I changed them over for TL072 and the whole thing stops working! The best I can seem to do is have 3 TL072 and retain one 4558. Seems very odd but the ticking got slightly better. Im thinking about trying a TL022 in the place of the power isolator as it is supposed to suck less juice. Maybe worth a try. I have been reading up on the old posts about ticking and tried putting a large value cap (220uF) between the Vref from the op amp and ground. This reduced the tick considerably. I will try out some more values and see how I get on. But at the moment these too options seem the best for reducing the tick without rebuilding the board! I think it will be fine for all but the fussiest of players but considering it was my first ever layout Im pretty pleased. Im getting my pignose out of storage tonight so will start testing out all of the panning and phase switch stuff to do the final tests.

Cheers for all of the support, hopefully it should be up as a project file within a few weeks

Shed

Thanks for the update!  :)

Did you try to increase the cap across the power supply pins of the LFO opamp? Maybe in combination with the 220µ you added between Vref and gnd?

Edit: Did you try to add large caps to both LFO opamps? BTW, good to know that a cap between Vref and gnd helps!!

Regards,

Markus

Has the Lovetone Flanger been cloned?

Quote from: StephenGiles on May 08, 2007, 10:20:47 AM
Has the Lovetone Flanger been cloned?

Don't know...

Markus:

So far ive been prodding the circuit placing a Cap at certain places to see what happens (Not very technical but eliminates possibilities!  :icon_eek:). Im going to go through systematically tonight and what i will do is take a not of any caps I add and then I will add them to your schematic in another colour to show that they aren't original.

Stephen:
The flanger hasn't been cloned to my knowledge. It may have been done and that person is keeping it close to their chest. Ive got my sights on the doppelganger as my next project. Ive got a couple of contacts who are going to get me some photos. The flanger is quite a complicated beast and has some components that are joined "above the board" as it were in a diode ldr configuration. The problem is finding someone with one who will take photos. I'll keep my eyes open.

Quote from: Shed_FX on May 08, 2007, 12:54:34 PM
Markus:

So far ive been prodding the circuit placing a Cap at certain places to see what happens (Not very technical but eliminates possibilities!  :icon_eek:). Im going to go through systematically tonight and what i will do is take a not of any caps I add and then I will add them to your schematic in another colour to show that they aren't original.

Stephen:
The flanger hasn't been cloned to my knowledge. It may have been done and that person is keeping it close to their chest. Ive got my sights on the doppelganger as my next project. Ive got a couple of contacts who are going to get me some photos. The flanger is quite a complicated beast and has some components that are joined "above the board" as it were in a diode ldr configuration. The problem is finding someone with one who will take photos. I'll keep my eyes open.

Many thanks.

QuoteMarkus:

So far ive been prodding the circuit placing a Cap at certain places to see what happens (Not very technical but eliminates possibilities!  ). Im going to go through systematically tonight and what i will do is take a not of any caps I add and then I will add them to your schematic in another colour to show that they aren't original.

Cool!  8)

Thanks a lot!!

No ?Flanger owner out there to share some data?  ;)

Just a quick update, I solved one problem. But it wasn't the ticking. I previously wrote that it wouldn't run using 4 TL072'2 as designed. This seemed very odd. Whilst trying to sort the ticking I read up about current consumption in LFO circuits, and found that the system may not have enough juice to run the op-amps efficiently. I checked the voltages on the board and found that the power to the op amps was fluctuating around 5.5-6Volts. This didn't seem good so I traced it back through checking components as I went. The voltage drop was over the polarity protection diode. I have removed this for the time being. The circuit seems to run better (still with tick) and can run 4 x TL072 chips.

Just thought I would write this down before I forgot about it as it may help others when building this circuit.

Back to the de-ticking!

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=35335.msg280189#msg280189

Quote from: Shed_FX on May 09, 2007, 02:36:18 PM
Just a quick update, I solved one problem. But it wasn't the ticking. I previously wrote that it wouldn't run using 4 TL072'2 as designed. This seemed very odd. Whilst trying to sort the ticking I read up about current consumption in LFO circuits, and found that the system may not have enough juice to run the op-amps efficiently. I checked the voltages on the board and found that the power to the op amps was fluctuating around 5.5-6Volts. This didn't seem good so I traced it back through checking components as I went. The voltage drop was over the polarity protection diode. I have removed this for the time being. The circuit seems to run better (still with tick) and can run 4 x TL072 chips.

Just thought I would write this down before I forgot about it as it may help others when building this circuit.

Back to the de-ticking!

Odd, are you sure it was the diode?  Could be a short in the circuit sucking a ton of power, or something wrong with your power supply, your opamps should be seeing near your 9v supply voltage.  Might want to measure the wob's current draw, analog circuits are funny, something can be terribly wrong and they'll still kinda work.

I can confirm it was the diode. It seemed to have a high (100kohm) resistance. Now I've removed it it seems fine. Just without the drastic voltage drop. Seems bizare tho. Im planning to wire up and test the right hand side tonight to confirm everything else is working and try a last few ideas for reducing the ticking.

Right entering the final stretch (I think!). Im sorry the progess has been slow on this but I nearly have it all working. The oscilators are working fine and on mono it sounds really nice and wobbly. The problem is that I get no sound out of the right hand channel. I have checked all of the components in that part of the signal path and all seems fine. It just doesnt give out any sound at all. When the right hand connection is removed and the pedal is run in mono the output distorts as if the signal from the left is being "sucked" as it were back up the right channel. I have tried everything I can think of an checked things through twice but cannot work out what it could be  >:(

I am now going to try re-melting all of the soldering joints just incase there is a dry contact anywhere. But any suggestions would be greatly recieved.

So near yet so far!

Cheers

Shed

Thanks a lot for the update!!

Resoldering is probably a good idea. Maybe also check for shorts, or those "tiny solder bridges", what's their name..?

QuoteWhen the right hand connection is removed and the pedal is run in mono the output distorts as if the signal from the left is being "sucked" as it were back up the right channel.

What do you mean with "right hand connection"?

Markus

Oh sorry I suppose it should be the right channel I suppose. It does seem really weird like the signal is being lost somewhere, either way I'll re-solder it and see where that take me!

Which connection exactly are you talking about?

Its marked on the schematic as "Out Right". There is no output from this side of the circuit.
I have resoldered all of the joints with no joy from that. I found one mistake with the depth pot on the LFO2. But i have now isolated the problem to the E113 JFet on the schematic. The replacement I had in there (a J113) had blown and was shorting between the source and drain. I have now replaced the fet with another fresh J113 and now the circuit does not oscillate at all!  :icon_eek:
Could this be to do with my choice of replacement fet? What exactly is the function of this component and how does the trigger input work? It seems bizarre. Any help would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks

Shed

As far as I understand the FET just resets the LFO upon an external trigger by discharging the integrating cap. If you leave it off the LFO should work.

Besides this, you probably may have an issue with the phase switch. I could imagine that with some settings both channels cancel each other.
Just an idea.
Maybe check with an audioprobe where you loose the signal...

Thanks Markus, I thought the Fet would probably do some thing like that. I actually found that I had the new one connected wrongly. Its now back to where it was. I think I'm going to remove the phase switch for the time being and work back through the audio path, I haven't got an audio probe but should be able to work something out. The other thing that seems to be an issue is that on the sine wave oscillation setting LFO 1 barely appears to be oscillating. LFO 2 is nice and smooth and seems to be fine. Could it be that the 10uF cap in the feedback of LFO1 is too large? I may try changing it out just to see whether it has an effect or if the problem is further up the line.

Thanks for the on going help.

Shed

QuoteCould it be that the 10uF cap in the feedback of LFO1 is too large?

Seems like you found a bug in the schem  :icon_redface: Sorry. To be sure I will check when I'm at home.

QuoteI haven't got an audio probe but should be able to work something out.

Basically, you just need a cap (e.g. 1-10µ) and connect it with one side to a guitar cable. Since I'm lazy I connect it with alligator wires.   ;)
Plug the guitar cable into an amp and use the not connected end of the cap to follow the signal path.

Regards,

Markus

Quote from: markusw on May 16, 2007, 04:04:56 AM

QuoteCould it be that the 10uF cap in the feedback of LFO1 is too large?

Seems like you found a bug in the schem  :icon_redface: Sorry. To be sure I will check when I'm at home.


Regards,

Markus

Thanks for checking, these things are always part of the de-bugging process. I definitiely wouldn't have got half as far without your help.

Thanks!

Hey Sched,

checked again and the LFO's as shown in the schem should be OK. The left channel (low pass) has a slower LFO than the right channel (high pass).
According to the simulations the left LFO goes up to 16 Hz and right LFO goes up to 67 Hz.

Markus

I tried changing the capacitors around last night with no avail. I still can't get the Left LFO to oscilate in sine wave mode.  :icon_sad: Thank you for checking it out for me.
But I have found the problem with the sound on the "Out right" I made a mistake on the layout for the Op-amp! I thought I had checked it loads of times Doh!
But at least that gets one problem sorted!

Well, after all of that, it is complete and working! Getting the last bit to work was finding that it required that bit more juice to run certain settings and the battery I've been using for the debug is almost as tired as me! So the schematic is now confirmed, I may play about with the capacitors in the LFO to refine it further, and I think some log pots are required against the linear ones but apart from that it sounds pretty damn cool! I now need to finalise the wiring and have a go at boxing it up.

Next question is.... Does someone else want to give building this thing a try so it can all be double checked and sorted for a project file?
I am going to sort out the changes to my layout to make sure that it is all correct and then I will put it on the forum. What would be great is for someone to give me some pointers as to how to improve it for reducing the tick. The tick on the current board isn't drastic but may well bug people, so it would be good to refine the layout further.

Thank you all, for all of the support especially Markus, it has been a complete pleasure and I am glad to do a service for the forum.

Volunteers please step forward!

I`ve been watching this thread with interest. I`d love to give it a go but fear it might be beyond my abilities at the moment. Well done for sticking to it though, and...any chance of some soundclips?

I think it was beyond my abilities too, thats why the debugging took so long! Its not a particularly difficult circuit its just that it was my first layout (bit of a leap) and I had made a few mistakes. I would probably be able to help the next person to get it up and running pretty easily. It depends if people want to re-gig the layout to improve its audio quality, and reduce the tick. The next job is to have another go at limiting the tick as I took a lot of my de-ticking "mods" during the debug.

As for sound clips, Im afraid that i haven't got the stuff to do it. But I would say that the clips on the lovetone site are pretty representative of what it can do. It is a pretty impressive design and has loads of flexibility.

What would be great would be to modify the layout minimising the ticking using all the theories and then get another ginea pig to build one and check it out for real.

Sounds like you did it! Good work.
I think if you posted a layout next to a schematic someone should be able to point you in the right direcgtion to get the least amount of ticking.
Thanks for your work on this.

Looking forward to the files.

John

For the samples I've heard and stuff I've read, the Wobulator is quite similar to the Stereo Panneur from 4ms pedals, isn't that right?

The flanger doesn't sound all that great.

FAT GROUNDS!

Spaghetti traces are good on dishes, but not on PCBs...

I will try and get the corrected layout that I used posted up tonight. Its quite similar to the one that I posted before however I have converted it to dual op-amps. My PCB skils are rather rudimentary!

Hey Tom,


thanks for verifying the schem!  :)
Glad you got it working!! Congratulations!  8)

Regarding LFO ticking, maybe it helps to add ridiculously large caps (up to 1000µ) as power supply decoupling caps?
Maybe one for each LFO opamp??

Regards,

Markus

Thanks Markus!

I will try the decoupling caps tonight they helped before in reducing the tick before i removed them during the debug!  :icon_redface: The board does look a bit of a mess but Ive always been function over form! :icon_wink:

Right here is the layout I used. It's reasonably compact and Ive filled in all of the corrections that are needed for it to work. I did a final trace layout which shows the board mounted rotary switches and stuff but I thought at the moment it would be best showing it just as the main board. The numbers all relate back to the original schem and the big yellow squares are the transformers.
It is an Express PCB file at the moment simply as I found it easy to use and it was the first I found. If there are any better ones out there (I'm sure there are!) please let me know and I can go about transfering it across into a better format.
If anyone want to have the file it's probably easiest to e-mail me and then you can have a go at modifying it.
If no one else wants to have a go, post all of the comments/suggestions and I will develop it (but it will be around other projects).

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/WobulatorLayoutFinal.jpg)

I think it is pobably best to refine the layout a bit more before putting out a project file (that is almost done apart from the layout!)

hello all,

i would like to volunteer my doppelganger for analysis. also, i may be acquiring some other lovetones, i'm in negotiantions for either a Flange or a Ring Stinger (or both :) ). if i indeed get them, i'll take some hi res shots, and attempt some analysis too. nice to meet you all.

chris

Quote from: ispeakhopelandic on May 23, 2007, 09:28:54 AM
hello all,

i would like to volunteer my doppelganger for analysis. also, i may be acquiring some other lovetones, i'm in negotiantions for either a Flange or a Ring Stinger (or both :) ). if i indeed get them, i'll take some hi res shots, and attempt some analysis too. nice to meet you all.

chris

Hey Chris,

welcome to the forum!!  :)

Thanks for intending to share your lovetones with us!  :)
The Ring Stinger is already done. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.nelson666/StringRingerv12r.pdf (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.nelson666/StringRingerv12r.pdf)
I would be especially interested in the Flanger   ;) but I'm sure a lot of guys would love to have a look at the Doppelganger!
So if you succeed with your negotiations I would be happy to help with rev-engineering....

Regards,

Markus

thanks! i couldn't find the ring stinger, i knew that i was in the works, thanks for the link. i was really happy reading through the posts before my account was approved to see that folks were figureing out what the ICs were, that was somthing i was quite worried about. i'll get to work on the dopp right away. i'll post pics soon too.

Yes! We want layouts and pcb's! A full pdf with all that! I would like to help, but my experience isn't that much.

Good luck guys!

Quotei'll get to work on the dopp right away. i'll post pics soon too.

Thanks!  :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:

Fantastic  ;D ;D ;D

Debugging the wobulator drained my enthusiasm a bit (think i was just knackered). But cloning the Doppelganger would be great. I have about 80% of the PCB layout from piecing together pictures that were previously posted.
I am definitely up for helping with the flange and the doppelganger! Well I've got to complete my set!

Thank you ispeakhopelandic I have been trying to find someone who could take photos of one for quite a while and volunteering is absolutely awesome. Welcome to the forum!

thanks again! i actually have to open my dopp really carfully, as the side is bent and its messes up the paint every time i open it. you may be excited to know that it's the second version, the one with the square wave and super slow option (other wise it only goes down to about 1hz). if i end up not being about to get the flange, then i know someone i can borrow one from.

chris

Woohooo! Thats awesome! Can't wait to get started on it. If you chip the paint opening it, it would be best to take a range of photo's post them, and get feedback on them before you close it up. Basically we need:
A nice clear shot of the back of the board, so we can see the traces and solder joints clearly.
A shot of the front of the board, clear enough to show the resistor values,
A shot of the board showing where any flying leads go to jacks or switches
Check if the chips or transistors/fets have their numbers on and make a note,
Then make a note of the cap values around the board.
I think this unit will contain photo couplers, if you make note of any part numbers that would be helpful also.
That should do it, but take as many as you can from different angles as important details can be hidden by shadows etc.

Thanks Chris you are a legend!

All the best
Tom 

I can't wait. A few months ago I put together a phaseur fleur with all the trimmings, to resemble the dop. unfortunately had to set it aside before I got the additional lfo working, but I was/am close to having an alternative.

i leave this forum (and stompboxing ._.) for months, and come back to find the lovetone series' flanger in sight...!

thank you, chris, for your efforts.  :D

I'm definitely interested in working on the "?" Flanger with No Name ,  Markus is too, I think. if you can get the shots, I'll throw everything I've got at it, as will others, I'm sure.

please keep us in the know

-rec

Hey Chris while I remember when you have the doppelganger open can you measure the dimensions of the board so that I can scale a layout accordingly.

Thanks

Shed

if you have it, can you post the doppelganger schematic ?

Quote from: Shed_FX on May 26, 2007, 05:17:32 AM
Hey Chris while I remember when you have the doppelganger open can you measure the dimensions of the board so that I can scale a layout accordingly.

Thanks

Shed

yeah, absolutely. i'm still trying some things as to not ruin it anymore, but my patience is wearing thin with it. come a day or too i might just come flying open. also, if anybody is interested, i am going to fool around with a rackmount layout for the flange/ringstinger (assuming we get the flange done).

a little of topic but,

anybody here ever cloned/owned any buchla synth modules? i'll explain that whole story later :).

Any news of the reverse engineering of the doppelganger ?

Having held my breath hoping for a doppelganger schem, I have been working on a phaseur fleur for a while, and have gotten it close to being all finished up in a resemblance of a doppelganger. I posted a pic last week during the time when every post was deleted.  The phaser that I have put together has all the features of the later version of the dopp. and the mods to make similar to the dopp. are relatively easy to create if you spend a bit of time looking at the schem of the phaseur fleur.  One tip on making it though, the caps in the filter section are 6  x 103, these create a subtle effect at maximum, changed to 3 x 104 and the other half 3 x .047 makes for a more pronounced effect.  The square wave mod is done following the waveshaper mod on the commonsound website, instead of using a pot, use a toggle switch 2pdt with a fixed resistor on one side, non on the other.  The super slow mod is done with another  2pdt switch in series with the speed pot, similar to the square wave, just use a really big resistor, select to desired speed.  the stereo out is done with a line out after the first transistor.  The spectral bypass, use one set of lugs on the main on-off stompswitch to break the connection heading to the led, sandwich thing,   add a rotary switch to redirect the signal from the bypass that is normally on the phaseur so that instead of routing around the effect, it runs through the effect at all times, in other words, every time you step on the effect stomp switch you are turning the leds on or off, and with the rotary switch either selecting to remain with the signal routing through the effect, or the normal bypass route.  the phase/vibrato switch is simply breaking the connection with the non-effected signal before the output transistor. The other lfo is the only tricky part, I was never able to make it work as listed on the commonsound website, I ended up using the modulate main speed lfo to accomplish both mods.  use a stomp switch to add in the additional lfo, followed by a rotary switch to select which one you want to change, ie, add to or modulate speed.  run wires from the rotary to each of the spots on the main board that need it. To modulate the main speed run a wire to the +9v pin on the lower tl074, and another to the speed control 3 ( i am typing this from memory and don't have it in front of me, this is correct as best as i can remember)  To add to main, run a wire from the height 2 lug, to the one of the wires from lfo 2, and add the other lfo 2 wire to the tlo74 side of the 100k resistor.  Also the main speed control jack that can be controlled externally, just place use a stereo jack with the internal connections, i used a switchcraft 14b, so when nothing is inserted to the jack, the signal runs to the speed control, and when a stereo plug is inserted, it replaces the internal speed control.  Thats pretty much it, as far as pictures, i had problems posting them last week, and don't feel like trying again.

Hallo,
         some months ago I did a "pseudo" reverse engineering of the doppelganger (1st rev.). First of all, I must say that I never had a chance to try and touch the original, the work is based on several pictures found on the net.
It is obvious that the schematic lacks several informations, but I've understood the functionality of the effect; it is a sort of Univibe/Biphase phaser with 4 stages, it seems to be not really true bypass.
I did some simulation on the LFO and other parts of the circuit and it seems to work; I finally aborted the prototyping of the doppel because I never got the information about the caps and some other parts  values.
If someone wants to help me giving all missing information, we coud reveal the secret inside the doppel...
Bye

Mingus

Please post your work so we will be able to work on and help you in finishing the reverse engeeniring.
For some of the dopp users, the 1st version is the best, sounds better.

Hi BRingoC, mingus,

It sounds like you've both done some pretty interesting stuff. I am as enthused as anyone else about reverse engineering the doppelganger and hopefully we will be able to create a clone as a collaborative effort of many members of the forum. I realise from doing the prototyping work on the wobulator that it takes a lot of time and effort to put these things together! Please do not feel pressured to "hand over" your work to the community unless you really want to, producing this as a complete project will take a great deal more effort and any contribution that you wish to make in that process will be gratefully recieved.

I also lost a post during the server down time. I have got the majority of a layout created but need another couple of boardside photographs to complete it. This was constructed from the photo's originally supplied by ech0es some months ago.

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/Doppelgangerboard2.jpg)

I just need to know what goes on the other side!

The schematic, with a reference circuit board can be found at

http://www.marcominghetti.it/public/doublegangster%20rev%201.0.pdf (http://www.marcominghetti.it/public/doublegangster%20rev%201.0.pdf)

please note that all component values are missing, I have only a 70% of resistor values, the rest, for me, is hand written on a paper with all the notes I did...

Something is still missing, I've never understood the function of the two diodes (or zener or ????) D3 and D4...

If someone has the original maybe could help making a Bill of Material.

Good night

  Mingus

that shouldn't be too hard to conjure up something that will work as far as resistor and cap values, the values in the filter section could probably be copied right out of any other phaser you wish.  The ldr section could be the same values found in the phaseur fleur, someone on this forum said they had used vactrols similar to what is used in the mcmeat for that, the resistors in the LED section could be copied from the fleur as well. To make the super slow mod on this you would add a large value resistor in-line with the rate pot.

Thanks mingus, that is really fantastic. I presume the layout component layout included in that PDF is based upon the actual Doppelganger board? Could you send me the photo's that you have of the doppelganger board, I have sent you a PM, this will be able to complete my layout that I posted earlier. We can then find out all of the remaining values from Chris when he posts his photos of his doppelgangers guts. It would be great if I can compelete the board layout and get a head start on building a prototype!

Thanks again

Shed

Shed,
   unfortunately the schematic is taken from photo and movies of the original found in this site and in an italian forum:
http://www.fennecelectronics.it/smf/index.php?topic=128.msg1322#msg1322 (http://www.fennecelectronics.it/smf/index.php?topic=128.msg1322#msg1322)

the input/mix part is taken from a clone attempt found in the same italian forum
http://www.fennecelectronics.it/smf/index.php?topic=539.msg12300#msg12300 (http://www.fennecelectronics.it/smf/index.php?topic=539.msg12300#msg12300)

I know that the circuit maybe is enought to start, it's a phaser, so all phasers has the same principle for process the signal... I already did some consideration and I've populated the BOM, but I was wondering am I wrong or right???
This is why I'm looking for someone who has the original and can give me all values.

Anyway I must say again that this is supposed to be a doppelganger maybe 90%, and your solder side layout gave me more confidence about it.

Ciao

Mingus

Thanks mingus,

I have registered with another forum!  :D
I should hopefully be able to have a look through all of this stuff in the coming days, I could still do with more photos of the original Doppelganger board if anyone would care to oblige! Then the layout can be completed.

I shall post this one to help spark the discussions of what the circuit is based upon! Looks like the BC549's I bought in anticipation will have to go on the shelf!
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/en1ltph/doppel_component_fo2.jpg)

Thanks again for everyone's input we are inching closer to the full set!

There's not much to that thing is there.  Those circled diodes appear to be D10 and D11 (germanium?), with D3 and D4 being the two on the lower left, where it says doppelganger v 3 or v4 i think.  d3 and d4 i would suspect are 1N4001 or whatever is used as D1 for polarity protection, they are used in order to prevent the signal from grounding, it plays a part in the spectral bypass, in and the lfo signal goes to ground, out and the lfo signal goes to the led's. in other words, it does the same thing the old univibes did, it never really shuts of, it just shut the bulb off, and sounded 'by-passed'.  As far as the bc549' s you mentioned and 'what it's based on' what are you looking for?  It is two tl077's two 4458's, check the commonsound forum for what type of ldr sensativity is used in the phaser fleur, i am sure that value would work.  The pots, i guess 100k.  The low frequency span i think works LDR 1 and 2, they I assume would be a higher value cap of .1 (C 11, 12) and LDR 3,4 being the high frequency ldr, using caps of .047 (C 13, C14) or whatever you like for those values, they effect the sweep.  C1 @ 100uf  C2 @ 10uf, as well as C3 and mayve C5.  C4 and 6 i would say 1uf.  On the input section, those are standard filtering parts, borrow from any circuit.  The Color circuit, with C17, i would assume is similar to the feedback section of the phaseur fleur , i think there is a .001 in there.  I would bet the ldr led's have to be green. The resistors in the filter section will be parallel values, ie 45 will be the same as 46, etc, i think. If you can figure out the resistor values, which dosnt look like it would be too hard you could figure out the Vref's, it could be scraped together from this info, i could try it this weekend.

Yeah I was quite surprised how sparse it was too! I would hope that we can get the resistor values from Chris when he opens his, we can also get information on the other lovetone mods that was done on the later ones.
The BC549 comment was just a bit of a lovetone joke, all the others we have seen so far (including the flange ? i think) has made use of them in some way!
The unidentified components are quite strange. I have seen some very old capacitors which look quite similar but I really don't know at this stage I need to put a bit more thought into it! But from markings they could be germainium diodes.
It does look like it is a very similar circuit compared to others. I will start doing some research into other LDR circuits so that we could make an educated guess at least.
All your insights from the fleur are all interesting and we could perhaps even mod and enhance the basic doppelganger!
I've gotta go. 

Cheers

The weird components circled in the picture are capacitor, marked 47p ...
The same capacitors (type) is used also in other lovetone effects.

Ciao

I landed another phot of the doppelganger today. It illustrates the trace side of the board so I could complete the layout. This is redrawn from the actual lovetone layout. However are there any issues with using this same layout on the clone? The String Ringer board is almost the same as the lovetone.

Basically I am asking should I change a few parts of it round to be on the safe side of things as I don't have previous experience of such things. I am going to make the board today and start working out a bill of materials. However i am still unable to identify values of all of the resistors or capacitors in the circuit so any additional information anyone can shed some light on would be great.

Thanks

I didn't do any of my "homework" on this thing over the weekend.  There shouldn't be a problem with making the layout the same as how it actually appears, however it does appear as a lot of jumpers are used on the pcb, i think as a result of trying to integrate the rotary switches and pots into the pcb, instead of having them flying.  you could probably shake this thing down to a 2 inch by 2 inch board without those switches because there are so few parts.  I'll try to give the pic another look to see if I can figure out the values, unfortunatly the part numbers listed on the pcb don't match the part numbers on the schem. ho hum.

Still waiting for the doppelganger schematic.
Please email it to me at ech0es@hotmail.fr

Is there any complete schem already?  :)

There is the schem posted on the thread which does not include the component values. I have completed a cloned layout which is based upon the actual doppelganger board. I am currently very busy with other stuff but should be getting more information to complete a full schematic and layout in the up coming months. The schem that we do have has been checked out and seems to be correct/make sense.
Your patience will be rewarded in time!  :)

Maybe it can helps you (it's a quotation)

"The Dop is a four stage phaser with stacking caps like a Univibe but opamp based and optically controlled.
As the caps are stacked, one couple of stages "modulates" the lower register and the other the high register so Lovetone cleverly use separate depth controls for each couple of stages plus a phase switch.


Yes it's a fet based. But very lush having 6 stages (you could add more if you build your own). It's AC powered and seems to have a more headroom running at 12V than your standard 9V phaser which might also translate it's being so nice. Very sweet sweep. It's my rave phaser. I don't think it gets a lot of props, maybe because people shy away from it due to its size and I think they originally were very price prohibitive. I've read that it was the phaser that started the phase craze (of course the Uni-Vibe could also claim that title but the PS-1 is technically a true phaser). "

for the value we can zoom on this picture to see the value of the resistors:

(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7343/doppelcomponentfo2ck0.jpg)

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9295/resistosun7.png)

and with this text we can find the other components value:

There's not much to that thing is there. Those circled diodes appear to be D10 and D11 (germanium?), with D3 and D4 being the two on the lower left, where it says doppelganger v 3 or v4 i think. d3 and d4 i would suspect are 1N4001 or whatever is used as D1 for polarity protection, they are used in order to prevent the signal from grounding, it plays a part in the spectral bypass, in and the lfo signal goes to ground, out and the lfo signal goes to the led's. in other words, it does the same thing the old univibes did, it never really shuts of, it just shut the bulb off, and sounded 'by-passed'. As far as the bc549' s you mentioned and 'what it's based on' what are you looking for? It is two tl077's two 4458's, check the commonsound forum for what type of ldr sensativity is used in the phaser fleur, i am sure that value would work. The pots, i guess 100k. The low frequency span i think works LDR 1 and 2, they I assume would be a higher value cap of .1 (C 11, 12) and LDR 3,4 being the high frequency ldr, using caps of .047 (C 13, C14) or whatever you like for those values, they effect the sweep. C1 @ 100uf C2 @ 10uf, as well as C3 and mayve C5. C4 and 6 i would say 1uf. On the input section, those are standard filtering parts, borrow from any circuit. The Color circuit, with C17, i would assume is similar to the feedback section of the phaseur fleur , i think there is a .001 in there. I would bet the ldr led's have to be green. The resistors in the filter section will be parallel values, ie 45 will be the same as 46, etc, i think. If you can figure out the resistor values, which dosnt look like it would be too hard you could figure out the Vref's,


The BBD seems to be a MN3207 + a MN3102. There is just one (sanded) IC which suspiciously looks like a quad opamp
From the pics I can't say whether the about 16 trannies are labelled.
And of course there are a couple of LED/LDR combos Wink Interestingly, there is also a OEP1200 audio transformer....

But i can't do that: i am colorblind, i can't see the color on the resistors to find the value.

The circled componenets look like polystyrene caps.

I have tried reading the resistor values without much luck. i.e. I can't see them clearly enough to pick out the values for sure. Then there are the cap issue. If you want I should be getting a new version of the layout soon and then I can post that. You can then build the thing and chop and change the components untill you are happy. I am afraid there hasn't been anymore developments I have made on this in the last few months as I have not recieved any further information and have not had the time to do any work on it.

Any developments will be posted, once I have the information.

I never got around to actually 'working' on this, i enlarged the picture, but had trouble myself seeing the color codes on the resistors, the oranges look similar to red, and green like black.

hi,
someone know what ICs the Doppelganger mount?

ps. the circled componenets  are polystyrene caps...the value is 47pF....you can easily substitute with ceramic disk.

thx

Is this thread dead? There hasn't been much activity on here for a while.

If anyone has completed this project, please let me know. I am about to start it myself, I'm just waiting for the OK that someone successfully cloned one of these from the material provided in the thread.

Thanks,
-Chuck

Has anyone traced all the components to the doppelganger yet or at least are there some clear guts shots out there somewhere so i could have a go at tracing it myself iam really keen after doing the meatball to get a doppelganger happening but i haven't had much luck in scouring these forums to finding any sort of information on a schematic. If anyone has some clear guts shots or a schematic could they let me know i would much appreciate it.

Hello chaps.
Digging up a grave here, but I have a v4 DoppelGanger if anyone is interested I would be very cautious to take it apart as its my pride and joy
Sold my ? years back for £350 what a silly boy, never mind.

If someone makes a PCB I would love to make a clone so I dont have to worry about my real one.

unless you want to take it apart to get some parts value readings/gut shot or two, there isn't much of a chance of a proper schematic/pcb getting made anytime soon.

I could do that. Bare with me I will try to get time tommorow.

http://s1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/LaceSensor1/Lovetone/

Here is the manuals. I also have PDF and word incase you want them.
Ill crack on with the pedal itself soon.

Detailed photos of the board and sockets etc. in this link: http://s1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/LaceSensor1/Lovetone/
I have most of the cap values too....

caps
1- 22nK63 (blue box)
2- ? There are 2 caps on the switches / connections. These are 10uF and 220uF electros. there is also a 220uF electro on the board. So these are C2, C3 and C4 but no numbers...
3- ? see 2
4- ? see 2
5- 4n7K63
6- 0,01 63 M2 (Wima)
7- yellow and silver tube shaped thing, with the code "47HX0012" see also C15 C17
8- 22nK63
9- 6n8K63
10- 47nK63
11- 10uF electro
12- 10uF electro
13- 10uF electro
14- 10uF electro
15- yellow and silver tube shaped thing, with the code "47HX0012" see also C7 C17
16- 10uF electro
17-yellow and silver tube shaped thing, with the code "47HX0012" see also C7 C15
18- 10uF electro

The diodes on the left side of the board near U4 say (obscured) "4002" and "1n400" from what I can see
The only chip that isnt completely sanded is U4 which says (obscured) "072CN"   then underneath "30935" 

The pots from left to right are 100k 100k 1k 1k 100k 100k
They didnt say the taper on them, or I was blind.

There is a diode next to the rightmost pot, partially obscured, it says 1n400 cant see the last value

Thats about all I have for now. If the colours of the resistors dont show up well, I have them noted down.

Hopefully this helps, I would love to see a board made for this.
Thanks.

Ian

I grapped the pictures and what information you put there hopefully i can have a good go at tracing this sucker out now the only thing i may need to ask what odd things are but keep posted iam tracing away. Hopefully it ends up correct i'll have to dig up the ole trusty resistor colour code

Quote from: seedseed on March 16, 2011, 02:19:09 AM
I grapped the pictures and what information you put there hopefully i can have a good go at tracing this sucker out now the only thing i may need to ask what odd things are but keep posted iam tracing away. Hopefully it ends up correct i'll have to dig up the ole trusty resistor colour code

Excellent
There are a couple of resistors that look a bit funky - the ones with a simple black line on, and there is one near C11 that is a strange silvery colour, but other than that they all look normal, either beige or greeny in colour.
Most look like .25W but there are a couple bigger ones that might be .5W

The ones with the single black line are jumpers.

anyone managed to do any more work on this yet?

A final PCB of this please????

dont think thats going to happen
i dont have the skill or time to learn to do it right now, and i have hopefully provided all the info for someone to do it and its been a couple weeks and nothing has happened sadly.

I'd like to give this thing a shot, with the available information seems like I could at least get a "work-alike" wobulator.

  Can anyone explain the function of the transformers in the circuit? I know they are not the same values but  I have the two transformers from a kenstone  ring mod, http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html  can these be used? I believe the wobulator calls for OEP1200

Quote from: charmonder on January 14, 2012, 04:18:19 PM
I'd like to give this thing a shot, with the available information seems like I could at least get a "work-alike" wobulator.

  Can anyone explain the function of the transformers in the circuit? I know they are not the same values but  I have the two transformers from a kenstone  ring mod, http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html  can these be used? I believe the wobulator calls for OEP1200

as far as I know those transformers and the four diodes like in your web link, are part of a "ring modulator" wich is part of the Lovetone "Ring Stinger", not wobulator nor doppelganger. I hope this helps you.

cheers.

Quote from: Shed_FX on July 02, 2007, 08:25:06 AM
I landed another phot of the doppelganger today. It illustrates the trace side of the board so I could complete the layout. This is redrawn from the actual lovetone layout. However are there any issues with using this same layout on the clone? The String Ringer board is almost the same as the lovetone.

Basically I am asking should I change a few parts of it round to be on the safe side of things as I don't have previous experience of such things. I am going to make the board today and start working out a bill of materials. However i am still unable to identify values of all of the resistors or capacitors in the circuit so any additional information anyone can shed some light on would be great.

Thanks

Hi Tom,  have you sorted out you tick problem? Have you ever tried using a shielded clable for audio IN/OUT ? maybe is as simple as that... maybe not. Cheers

Quote from: LaceSensor on March 27, 2011, 12:29:23 PM
dont think thats going to happen
i dont have the skill or time to learn to do it right now, and i have hopefully provided all the info for someone to do it and its been a couple weeks and nothing has happened sadly.

Hi mate! I am on it, slowly...

I am on it since 3 years ago, I bought today from Holborn's Maplin store a big FR4 blank PCB to etching Doppelgangger's circuitboard, don't know when yet! :) but I'll do, I have pretty much every componet value as far as I remember, I am going to do 1999 V3 PCB, wich is the best I have and also the components list.

I'll put everything on line for sharing once I have it working properly. I guess you already have one fo those, is that right? Could you tell me the right measuring of yours, I mean the PCB measures, I have a good pic on my Photoshop but I have to reverse it and re-adjust it before printing to the right measure for transfer (blue peel and press), I could calculate that based on component's size but is easier and more accurate if you have one :).

If you can't don't worry.

Cheers.

I have a PCB layout you can etch from. I did it already. But it doesnt sound good.
Either an error my end or component mismatch.

Anyway, if you want/need it let me know. Im travelling for work but will be back at home friday...

Hi man,

That would be nice, I will compare yours with mine, if those PCB are the same I'll use your then.

I haven't written the BOM yet, but I'll do when mine is working just to avoid messing with wrong component values, then you could check if you have same values.

What did you use for opto-coupling, - led and cells - or - optocouplers - ?

I am almost sure that the ICs are TL072 and TL074 but until I have them installed and working I can't say those are the thing...

My email is on my profile, use it please for sending the layout. Thank you!

cheers!

If somebody have a PCB with a layout of this pedal sounding better, :P please please post IT!!!! :icon_evil:

Hi Roberto,

You'll have to wait until we get a working one unless you want to try by yourself. So keep yourself in tune and read carefully all the posts ;). So, paciencia amigo...

Cheers.

Quote from: JRC4558D on July 31, 2012, 03:14:34 PM
Hi man,

That would be nice, I will compare yours with mine, if those PCB are the same I'll use your then.

I haven't written the BOM yet, but I'll do when mine is working just to avoid messing with wrong component values, then you could check if you have same values.

What did you use for opto-coupling, - led and cells - or - optocouplers - ?

I am almost sure that the ICs are TL072 and TL074 but until I have them installed and working I can't say those are the thing...

My email is on my profile, use it please for sending the layout. Thank you!

cheers!

I used TL074 and TL072

The pedal all "functions" as it should
- Phase switch (In or out of phase LFOs)
- Dual / Single LFO
( All the optocouplers respond to show this )
- slow switch and square wave LFO working

Only problem is it sounds not good...
And I have some wrong voltages on the Audio side TL074 quad opamp compared to my v4 DoppelGanger.

I have tried Green LEDs, Red LEDs with LDRs as well as silonex NSL-32s with the same results.
I think its just a problem with my build but I cant for the life of me spot it.

When I get the time and patience I will make another PCB
I had maybe one or two resitros I wasnt sure of due to wierd ones in the lovetone, but I measured resistances in circuit and did it like that.

I can make a BOM perhaps but I dont know all the part numbers, I havent created a schematic so it would just be positions on the PCB layout.

Good news is the PCB I created toner transfers ok for my use (with a cheap mono lazer printer).
Im sure between us we can get a Dopp clone rolling...

Quote from: GodSaveMetal on July 31, 2012, 05:05:33 PM
If somebody have a PCB with a layout of this pedal sounding better, :P please please post IT!!!! :icon_evil:

Chill dude
These things take time
if you want it to go faster, buy a doppelganger and help us!  :P

Quote from: LaceSensor on July 31, 2012, 06:47:33 PM

Quote from: GodSaveMetal on July 31, 2012, 05:05:33 PM
If somebody have a PCB with a layout of this pedal sounding better, :P please please post IT!!!! :icon_evil:

Chill dude
These things take time
if you want it to go faster, buy a doppelganger and help us!  :P

IN MY country WOBULATOR what?????????????? they don´t know what is!!!! jejejeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! :icon_lol: they see me like and strange UFO man!!!! men in BLACK!!!  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
I stay tuned on this take your time, but please don´t forget to post it.

SALUTIS desde PERÚ!!!

Quote from: LaceSensor on July 31, 2012, 06:46:18 PM

I used TL074 and TL072

The pedal all "functions" as it should
- Phase switch (In or out of phase LFOs)
- Dual / Single LFO
( All the optocouplers respond to show this )
- slow switch and square wave LFO working

Only problem is it sounds not good...
And I have some wrong voltages on the Audio side TL074 quad opamp compared to my v4 DoppelGanger.

I have tried Green LEDs, Red LEDs with LDRs as well as silonex NSL-32s with the same results.
I think its just a problem with my build but I cant for the life of me spot it.

When I get the time and patience I will make another PCB
I had maybe one or two resitros I wasnt sure of due to wierd ones in the lovetone, but I measured resistances in circuit and did it like that.

I can make a BOM perhaps but I dont know all the part numbers, I havent created a schematic so it would just be positions on the PCB layout.

Good news is the PCB I created toner transfers ok for my use (with a cheap mono lazer printer).
Im sure between us we can get a Dopp clone rolling...

OK, I'll do my BOM, I'll try to do it based on the V4 (I am almost sure I have some pics of it) there are some components that are blocking the part number on the PCB so I don't know wich the number are, I mean I can read C (it is 47pF styroflex) but have no idea if it is C4 or C2 for instance, and there is a 220uF electrolytic, also unknown part number.

Also there is a resistor that is 6 band color code, this particular one has a temperature coheficient, I really doubt if it (the coheficient) do something or not, that particular resistor is 91K, 50 C degrees, I can't see the part number of that resistor but it is right there close to C11 (PCB V3) but I guess you could use any 91K resistor.

I was following both PCB V3 and V4 and I guess that they put some external components on the PCB in V4 that were out on V3, that's the main difference as far as I remember.

All the time I've been working on V3, because I have a really good pic of the PCB's back, but if you have the PCB on V4 I could do it on that one, that would be better I guess to compare results.

I'll wait your layout. If you have the chance it would be nice to take a pic of the PCB and to add component numbers where those are hidden, that will be cool for the BOM.

Could you be more specific about "it sound not good"? is it distortion? weak/thin sound? dynamics are too slow? Did you check caps out polarity?

I have a mess with switches cables, any help with that will be appreciated :)

cheers mate!

Provisional BOM:
------------------

C1:22nf
C2: ---- ?? 220uf ??
C3:10uf
C4: ---- ?? 47pF ??
C5:4n7
C6:0.01uf 63v
C7:47pf
C8:22nf 63v
C9:6n8 63v
C10:47nf
C11:10uf
C12:10uf
C13: ------????
C14:10uf
C15:220uf
C16:10uf

All LIN
-------
VR1: 100k (LFO1)
VR2: 100K (LFO2)
VR3: 1K (LF SPAN)
VR4: 1K (HF SPAN)
VR5: ?? 100K ?? (COLOUR)
VR6: 100K (BLEND)


U1: TL074 CN
U2: TL072 CN
U3: TL074 CN
U4: TL072 CN

D1: 1N4001
D2: 1N914
D3: 1N4001
D4: 1N4001

I haven't got any resistor part number, just the values...

Quote from: GodSaveMetal on July 31, 2012, 08:10:44 PM
IN MY country WOBULATOR what?????????????? they don´t know what is!!!! jejejeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! :icon_lol: they see me like and strange UFO man!!!! men in BLACK!!!  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
I stay tuned on this take your time, but please don´t forget to post it.

SALUTIS desde PERÚ!!!

Hola Roberto, this is about DOPPELGANGER (Phaser) not WOBULATOR (tremolo)... those are different beasts ;).

Cheers, from London.

Quote from: JRC4558D on April 19, 2012, 08:13:40 AM

Quote from: charmonder on January 14, 2012, 04:18:19 PM
I'd like to give this thing a shot, with the available information seems like I could at least get a "work-alike" wobulator.

  Can anyone explain the function of the transformers in the circuit? I know they are not the same values but  I have the two transformers from a kenstone  ring mod, http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgsrr.html  can these be used? I believe the wobulator calls for OEP1200

as far as I know those transformers and the four diodes like in your web link, are part of a "ring modulator" wich is part of the Lovetone "Ring Stinger", not wobulator nor doppelganger. I hope this helps you.

cheers.

Sorry man I was wrong, there are two trafos in the Wobulator, (OEP 1200) those are Isolation Transformers 600-600 ohms for Telcos, those are here  http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1172348&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-ROBOTICS&mckv=sQr53oO5u|pcrid|13358782749|kword|oep1200|match|p|plid| (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1172348&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-ROBOTICS&mckv=sQr53oO5u%7Cpcrid%7C13358782749%7Ckword%7Coep1200%7Cmatch%7Cp%7Cplid%7C), you can download the PDF datasheet from here http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13721.pdf (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13721.pdf), I hope this help you, agian, sorry.

Cheers.

Provisional BOM 2:
------------------

Capacitors
------------
C1: 22nf    63v polyester
C2: 47pF    63v polystyrene
C3: 10uf    35v Electrolytic
C4: 220uF    35v Electrolytic
C5: 4n7    63v polyester
C6: 0.01uf    63v polyester
C7: 47pf    63v polystyrene
C8: 22nf    63v polyester
C9: 6n8    63v polyester
C10: 47nf    63v polystyrene
C11: 10uf    35v Electrolytic
C12: 10uf    35v Electrolytic
C13: 10uf    35v Electrolytic
C14: 10uf    35v Electrolytic
C15: 220uf    35v Electrolytic
C16: 10uf    35v Electrolytic
C17: 47nf    63v polystyrene

Potentiometers (All LIN)
---------------------------
VR1: 100k (LFO1)
VR2: 100K (LFO2)
VR3: 1K (LF SPAN)
VR4: 1K (HF SPAN)
VR5: 100K (COLOUR)
VR6: 100K (BLEND)

IC
----
U1: TL074 CN
U2: TL072 CN
U3: TL074 CN
U4: TL072 CN

Diodes
--------
D1: 1N4001
D2: 1N914
D3: 1N914
D4: 1N4002
D5: 1N4002


6 Band resistors
----------------
270k  1% 50PPM/C red-violet-black... (top right of the board)
3M3   1% 50PPM/C orange-orange... (top right of the board)
47R   1% 50PPM/C yellow-violet... (top right of the board)
91K   1% 50PPM/C white-black... (close to C11)

ooh. I ll need to check what I had where that 4.7R is...Im pretty sure I didnt use 4.7R

also, is that correct on the 1n914s?
thanks


cant wait to get home!

Quote from: LaceSensor on August 01, 2012, 12:44:32 PM
ooh. I ll need to check what I had where that 4.7R is...Im pretty sure I didnt use 4.7R

also, is that correct on the 1n914s?
thanks


cant wait to get home!

Hi Ian,

that resistor should be  47R sorry about that mistake. Check it yourself here http://samengstrom.com/46436194/en/read/6_Band_Resistor_Color_Codes (http://samengstrom.com/46436194/en/read/6_Band_Resistor_Color_Codes) using colours: yellow-purple-black-gold-brown-red. There any 47R resitor metal film 1% will work fine.

Yes, those are 1N914 but you could use 1N4148 anyway, those are the same thing.

Diodes D1, D4 and D5 are all rectifiers, those could be 1N4001, all of them if you like but you can read there that those guys used 1N4001 for D1 and 1N4002 for D4 and D5.

I hope this time your pedal works fine!!

Cheers,

Quote from: JRC4558D on August 01, 2012, 05:50:49 AM

Quote from: GodSaveMetal on July 31, 2012, 08:10:44 PM
IN MY country WOBULATOR what?????????????? they don´t know what is!!!! jejejeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! :icon_lol: they see me like and strange UFO man!!!! men in BLACK!!!  :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
I stay tuned on this take your time, but please don´t forget to post it.

SALUTIS desde PERÚ!!!

Hola Roberto, this is about DOPPELGANGER (Phaser) not WOBULATOR (tremolo)... those are different beasts ;).

Cheers, from London.

GOODNESS!!!!! peor chico!!!!! DOPPELGANGER!!!!! sounds like and final cut; the final of the EARTH!!! for everyone in my country!! jejejeeeeeeee!!! please a PCB for that also my interest!!! Stay TUNED on it!!!!!!!!

Quote from: LaceSensor on August 01, 2012, 12:44:32 PM
ooh. I ll need to check what I had where that 4.7R is...Im pretty sure I didnt use 4.7R

also, is that correct on the 1n914s?
thanks


cant wait to get home!

Ian, after you've tried so many optocouplers and led/cells without success, I have to ask you, did you measure the photocells ?
If not just unsold one leg and using your multimeter with LED on first and then with a piece of black tape (blocking light going to the cell) to read the blackout resistance of the cell, then I guess it will be easier to find wich optocoupler will suit.

cheers.

jhjhj

look here for word doc ready to print and pcb jPG

free
stomp
boxes
dot
org
/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=396&p=200493#p200493

Newest thread I could find, sorry for the dredge.

Has anyone built a Wobulator from the MarkusW Wobulator v3 schematic?