A local friend got a space station recently up here and I must admit it is actually a really cool, strange pedal, unfortunately they go for $300+ used, so I was wondering if anyone here knew what it would take to copy the chip off my friends and put it in a cheaper pedal from that XP series, like the modulator or whammy/wah, or reberberator, whichever is the cheapest. There are reports of a guy copying it (http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?s=&postid=324896#post324896), and also someone who puts all 4 of the eproms (http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?s=48bcf429d0a4e80663cc8fb7d04884bb&threadid=58360&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) in one pedal with a rotary switch to select the model.
(http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/SNAMM97/DigiTech/XP-300-XP-400.jpg)
Thanks for any thoughts on this, I may even have a suitable programmer at my work...
Don't know if it's any help but I remembered that something similar had been discussed before. http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=35600.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=35600.0)
you should contact maneco. He's got the program of all xp series, plus can program the chip for you, and upgrade from xp100 to 300 if you have the pedal...
Maneco eh? I'll pick his brain, once I get my hands on a modulator, hopefully its something I can do in house, I understand it may need some extra RAM soldered in, luckily I can refer to a real space station when converting it. What would totally cool and out of my league is to mix the patches from the different models!
IF anyone is interested in giving this a shot, I'll gladly help out any way I can. I had thought about compying the Eprom of a WH-1 whammy to just get a peak at the programming out of curiousity, and IIRC the XP-100 and WH-1 have the same programming. I'd be willing to shell out some dollars for a way to connect my PC to the chip, assuming its not too expensive.
No luck getting ahold of Maneco, but i got ahold of a Modulator and Reverberator. They are indeed the same PCB. The Reverberator comes with 3x NEC 41464 DRAM chips
(same chip as the DD-2 and DD-3), and an empty 4th socket, and the modulator comes with one DRAM chip, and no sockets in the extra positions (which are filled with solder, so it would be a little chore desoldering them and installing the sockets. We just happened to have a suitable programmer hooked up to the PC at my work (shows how much I know about this stuff), I could read the 27c256 eprom and store it on the computer ( MUUUHAHAHA!), but all we had around were these 27c512 eproms, which gave me an error when programming them. I got some 27c256s coming in the mail sometime, I guess I'll wait til they get here.
Incidentally the obsolete NEC DRAM is really hard to find, I'm going to try a substitute 64K x 4bit, 100ns DRAM chip, we'll see if it works out.
On a non digital side note, I wonder if there is anything that can be done about the taper feel of the rocker control, the action is all bunched up in the middle. Any ideas?
Its Aaalive! Pretty cool, huh? I thought I would have wait for parts, but I stole the eprom and DRAM out of the modulator, and copied my bro's space station eprom, it didn't work at first, I think because the reverberator and modulator were missing some parts, compared to the space station:
C65, C60, and C61 = 10uF 16v tant
R31 = 4.7K, 805 size (surface mount)
[EDIT] the modulator was missing u13, an mc34064 undervoltage reset goodie.
All my fiddling with it must have corrupted something on the eprom the first time, I was totally confused why it wasn't working, tried the newly space stationized eprom in the real space station, it didn't do nothing, I briefly envisioned the conversation breaking the news to my friend that I had killed his new space station. But then I erased it and tried it again, this time with a label on it from the get go, and ta da! I was worried that the DRAM in the reverberator and modulator was too slow, it is the 100ns kind, and the stuff in the space station is 80ns, but it works fine with the 100ns DRAM, soo... Such a weird pedal... my favorite right now is the setting that when you play something, after an amount of time (short or long) it comes back backwards, its better than other reverse delays, because the seam in the blocks of reversed playback is right on the beginning of your note, every time. That sounds confusing, i'm sure. So is this pedal.
Oh, it was fun desoldering the filled in empty socket holes in the modulator, I used the heat gun to heat up the whole section, and then smacked the board on the trash can, flying solder galore!
Eeeek! I procured an xp100 whammy/wah to space stationize it and hawk to a friend who needs space station in their life, thereby enhancing local music, but it doesn't have any eprom or socket or anything in sight. It must be the newer version of the xp100. Looked like a pain to figure out everything to change around, and now I remember reading something the Jetpack mods guy said that they were a pain to mod, so I guess that's that, mattress man.
:icon_rolleyes:
People complain about the bypass on these. It would be fine (it uses FET switching and an opamp buffer, no monkey business like leaving the DSP engaged) except it has a gain control on the input that is used to get a good level for the A/D converter. Unfortunately they did nothing to attenuate that gain back down to the original level. So it gives a pretty hot signal to whatever is after it, which will change how an amp reacts. On one of mine I stuck a dual pot on the two outputs as a volume control, works well. I can't tell the difference between it and my true bypass loop.
What would be ideal, and digitech should have been on this, would be to use a pot to simultaneously turn the output down as the input gain goes up, or use a rotary switch or something instead, to keep things at unity.
I just rediscovered this thread, and it's got me all excited again!
Processaurus, do you think there's any chance you could sort me out a brief tutorial on what you did, and also possibly a new EPROM so I can convery my XP100??
I would love to be able to upgrade my xp100 eprom.If only I could find an xp300 eprom copy :icon_cry:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=42059&g2_serialNumber=2)
Just found this picture, it is of the modded Modulator pedal, the toggle switch there is the chip enable switch, to decide whether it boots up as the whammy or space station. It doesn't have the whammy eprom in its piggybacked socket, yet, in the photo.
Quote from: Processaurus on October 03, 2007, 01:13:27 AMIt would be fine (it uses FET switching and an opamp buffer, no monkey business like leaving the DSP engaged) except it has a gain control on the input that is used to get a good level for the A/D converter. Unfortunately they did nothing to attenuate that gain back down to the original level. So it gives a pretty hot signal to whatever is after it, which will change how an amp reacts. On one of mine I stuck a dual pot on the two outputs as a volume control, works well.
Sorry, I know that this is an old thread but I have this very problem with my own Space Station: I love the wild sounds it makes but sorting out the levels is a real problem. Setting the input too low means that the FX don't work as they should yet when the input is set correctly the resulting high output creates other problems down the line.
Processaurus, can you please provide details on exactly what kind of dual pot you used i.e. what was it rated? Also, I'd be interested to know where you mounted the pot on the unit. Any photos would be a real bonus!
Thanks for your help.
I just used a dual 10K (audio taper) pot, cutting the traces with an xacto knife to the L & R output jacks and inserting the pot in between:
before:
---------------------------- jack tip connection
after:
cut
--------o----X---o----- jack tip connection
| |
| |
.-. |
| |<------'
10K | |
'-'
|
GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)
I don't have the pedal here to take a picture, but I wanted the pot not to get bumped, so I cut the shaft mostly off, leaving about 1/8" out of the threaded collar, and hacksawed a slot in in the end so it could be adjusted with a screwdriver or fingernail. The hole for it was in the plastic side piece, under the top ledge. I used shielded wire because I was paranoid about noise. You could use mic cable (the hot to the pot, the cold from the wiper to the jack, shield connected to pot ground and pedal ground) for that.
Another place to stick your control is under the rocker pedal, it is safe and quiet (and usually dusty) under there. That's where that funky light green toggle switch in my photo is. One of small bear's 16mm dual gang pots would fit there.
So any idea where I can source a copy of the SpaceStation EPROM?
Quote from: Processaurus on April 12, 2011, 01:42:05 AM
I just used a dual 10K (audio taper) pot, cutting the traces with an xacto knife to the L & R output jacks and inserting the pot in between.
Thanks so much for the speedy and informative reply! Really helpful information! I'm going to open up my unit tonight and start planning where the output level control pot will go. Under the rocker pedal sounds good (if it will fit).
Out of interest, do you know what value the stock input gain pot is?
Quote from: Paradroid on April 12, 2011, 04:17:16 AMOut of interest, do you know what value the stock input gain pot is?
Answered my own question by opening up the Space Station and having a look: the pot says "W100K". Mixed information about that one on Google...
Schematic for the XP series, analog section is on page 2:
http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Vibrato%20and%20Pitch%20Shift/Digitech%20XP100.pdf (http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Vibrato%20and%20Pitch%20Shift/Digitech%20XP100.pdf)
Quote from: Processaurus on April 12, 2011, 08:41:33 PMSchematic for the XP series
Great! Thanks again for the help!
I've soldered in an output control to my Space Station and it's SO much more enjoyable now! I can feed the effect a healthy level without having the output result in a massive boost to my signal. Much better! Nice to finally be able to tame the this wonderful sonic manipulator and not have it overload everything further down the line.
Since you seem to know the unit pretty well, I'll ask another question: are you aware of any points on the mainboard where I could get a DC voltage suitable for powering an LED? It seems the schematic gives some clues but, at my skill level, it would take me a very long time to work out how the schematic relates to the physical circuit.
Well, I finally completed my mods!
My Space Station now has a nice big output control next to the stock input control. I also installed a true bypass footswitch and red LED indicator to show when the unit is bypassed. The true bypass only works on the left channel (the right channel gets the stock Space Station bypass) but that suits me since I don't use the unit in stereo.
Having the true bypass is really useful for level matching since I can switch the unit in and out while adjusting the output level, carefully comparing the output. Without the bypass it's really hard to setup unity gain.
Of course, the levels of the actual effects vary quite a bit but with a unit as simple and quirky as this you have to roll with what you get. At least now my unit is setup not to boost the overall level and can be taken out of my chain completely when not in use.
I installed the 3PDT switch in between the 2 black footswitches on the unit. If I could do it all again I'd probably wouldn't have centered the 3PDT since it sticks right out of the unit and makes it trickier to press the stock switches with your foot. The 3PDT stands so high because of the wedge shape of the case: it's not deep enough to lower the switch down.
Overall, I guess I'm done with modding this pedal... unless someone comes up with a step-by-step guide for adding the other XP EPROMS. ;)
Does anyone have the code for the XP300, that they could send me, or point me to. I have a programmer, and I'd like to try an XP*00 conversion.
Much appreciated,
Dino
I'm afraid I don't have the code, but if you do source it would you be willing to burn chips for others (ei, ME!). It's something i've been interested in for a long time.
Find the code, I'll burn the chips.
I still haven't sourced the code, but I would be willing to burn chips if anyone does come up with it.
BUMP.... code anyone???
Just bumping this from the dead... I found a cheap/mint XP200 that I was hoping to mod into a 300. The 'jetpackmod' that gives you all 4 is pretty pricey now .
I also have an xp-100 laying around and highly wish to turn it into xp-300!
does anybody here still have xp-300 27c256 eeprom firmware for it and can share?
highly appreciated ::)
Quote from: MarkB on October 19, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
Just bumping this from the dead... I found a cheap/mint XP200 that I was hoping to mod into a 300. The 'jetpackmod' that gives you all 4 is pretty pricey now .
Check your PM.
Cheers,
Dino
I'm still interested in this mod, but I pretty much gave up on finding the code.
I've got a space station but not the technical stuff or know how to extract the rom.
If anyone in Manchester wants to collaborate I'm all ears...
If you know anyone with a chip programmer, that would be fine. This is what I use,
(http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!B3kiBqwEGk~$(KGrHqMOKjEEyTbsZ(SNBMmsfIsYqQ~~_12.JPG)
I picked it up on EBay, I used it to burn UNo chips for my FCB1010's, and update my A.R.T. SGX. You can also read, and save what's on the chips. Basically, you carefully remove the chip from the unit, place it in the programmer, and using the GUI, read the code on the chip. Save the code as a .bin file, and program a blank chip with the code.
As far as any other mods that need to be done, I've read somewhere that there are also some other components that need to be added to any 100/200/400 you wish to convert.
OK, I just picked up an xp-100 cheap on EBay. As soon as I get it, I'm going to try this code.
Stay tuned.....
Im staying *very* tuned :P
OK, I decided to switch gears here. I got the Whammy, and while the board is the same (older model :icon_smile:), there is a lot of components missing from the Whammy. By a stroke of good fortune, I just picked up a Modulator, which apart from 3 DRAM's, and the PROM, is only missing the MC34064, some caps, and a resistor. One thing that struck me was that there is no PROM, and only one DRAM in the Whammy. I'm wondering if I remove the PROM from the Modulator, if it becomes a Whammy :icon_confused:. I'm going to try that. If it's the case, then I'll piggyback everything into the Modulator, and use a rotary switch to switch between pedals.
I did find a web page which describes quite well how to piggyback PROM's for dual booting. It's not specific to these PROM's, but should apply to them as well.
http://www.nerd-out.com/darrenk/500W/DualBoot_piggyback.htm (http://www.nerd-out.com/darrenk/500W/DualBoot_piggyback.htm)
Slowly but surely....
just modded later version of xp-100 which was supposed impossible for modification by someone earlier. look at the pic.
(http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/3/b/thumb/thumb_a8dec481.jpg) (http://xmages.net/i/3370839)
first you need to add dram IC's, U8 and EEPROM U9 to the pcb, and next trick is to connect EApin (#29) of U10 through resistor to +5VD or to GND to switch between internal(original) and external(with xp-200, 300 or 400 firmware) roms.
originally EA was pulled to gnd with R38 which choose internal rom for program loading.
now this xp-100 feels much better with xp-300 firmware! :icon_cool:
I have the exact same version as you! I tough it was v1!
So, did you get the XP-300 firmware?
Theres one thing that I dont understand. As far as I can see, theres only one EEPROM in you unit, how come that you can use both programas (XP-100 and XP-300)?
The only thing thats backing me from doing this mod is the fact that I cant get the DRAM chips! :icon_confused:
This is the later version of xp-100, it had no eeprom chip before mod at all, the program is strored in a mask rom of the U10 MCU, and this is the main deifference between old and new xp-100 devices. just open your one and compare it's pcb with one on my photo.
so you need to add just one eeprom chip with xp-300 firmware. pm me your email if you need the code.
Quote from: logich on February 17, 2012, 03:17:49 AM
just open your one and compare it's pcb with one on my photo.
I was confused, because the pcb layout is the same. I didnt know that yours came without an EEPROM chip. So I have the older version.
Quote from: logich on February 17, 2012, 03:17:49 AM
so you need to add just one eeprom chip with xp-300 firmware. pm me your email if you need the code.
First I have to find the DRAM chips. I was not able to locate anyone since this chips are kind of old. A member from here told me where I could buy them, but its was a place from USA and Im from Argentina.
Fantastic work logich!!! :icon_mrgreen:
Ironically enough, I also have the same model Whammy as you, so I ordered a U8 for the conversion. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the U13 (MC34064) I ordered over A MONTH AGO :icon_evil:, so I can get the Modulator/Space Station conversion on line.
Once again, excellent work!!
Dino
I'm able to provide you with all the parts for this mod cause I have plenty of them in my local parts store and not expensive, but i'm located in Russia. just pm me and we will discuss the way to deal.
Quote from: logich on February 22, 2012, 09:40:17 AM
I'm able to provide you with all the parts for this mod cause I have plenty of them in my local parts store and not expensive, but i'm located in Russia. just pm me and we will discuss the way to deal.
Thanks for the offer, but I usually source my parts locally (Canada), with some exceptions for rare parts, or where price outweighs time. The MC was an exception :icon_sad:.
SUCCESS!!!! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
The Modulator is now a Space Station. Logich... may the power that be bless you. You have a heart as big as a bus :icon_mrgreen:. Works perfect!
I initially had a problem getting it to run, but I then noticed that I had the programmer running to fast. Slowed it down, and did a double-write. Solved the problem.
I'm going to look at doing the chip switch, and the output pot mods now. This pedal is just too wild.
I'm not going to sleep tonight :icon_biggrin:
Wow!! Congrats!! Enjoy you new pedal!!!! I bet its amazing!
Quote from: SISKO on March 07, 2012, 10:35:12 PM
Wow!! Congrats!! Enjoy you new pedal!!!! I bet its amazing!
Dude, I got up at 6:30 this morning to play with it! I've decided that I'm going to switch mod both the Modulator and the Whammy. That way I can use one, or the other, in SS mode while retaining the Modulator or Whammy.
The reverse delay is just plain nuts. The way it slows down the sound as you sweep the pedal, and then comes back up to speed backwards is just too much :icon_mrgreen:. The guys at Digitech who dreamed that up, must have been smoking some serious government issue crack.
So, to tally things up;
Modulator = 125$
Tantalum caps = 2$
MC34064 = 1.75$
RAM chip (x4) = 30$
RAM sockets (x3) = 1$
The 27C256 chips, UV eraser, and programmer I already had, but you'll be looking at anywhere between 150$, and more for those. That brings my total to about 160$ for this build, I'm not counting the other stuff. Even if I did, there's no way in hell I'm going to find a SS for that price. A worthwile investment, especially considering that I used the eraser/programmer to upgrade my FCB1010's, X-15 Ultrafoot, and SGX-2000.
As I mentioned before in the thread, if anyone would like me to program their chip, PM me. You'll only have to send me a UV-able chip in proper packaging, and I'll burn it for you. I'll only charge the return postage, payable via Paypal.
Rock on brothers!
Dino
Quote from: digi2t on March 08, 2012, 08:16:36 AM
Dude, I got up at 6:30 this morning to play with it! I've decided that I'm going to switch mod both the Modulator and the Whammy. That way I can use one, or the other, in SS mode while retaining the Modulator or Whammy.
The reverse delay is just plain nuts. The way it slows down the sound as you sweep the pedal, and then comes back up to speed backwards is just too much :icon_mrgreen:. The guys at Digitech who dreamed that up, must have been smoking some serious government issue crack.
Oh men! Youre making wanting it sooooo bad!
I think Ill give electronic stores another chance. Hope Ill be able to find the rams chips! :icon_biggrin:
Here are some pics of the mod right now;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0748.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0750.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0749.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0751.jpg)
Output volume mod is done as well. Dual gang A100K, works perfect.
OK, the XP100 conversion works perfect! Install U8, the DRAM, the EPROM, and a switch. PRESTO, got an XP100 and XP300 in one box. Only thing left to do now is the output volume mod.
Now I can run an XP100, 200, or 300. Or... an XP300, and an XP300...
:icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
Soo envy! So envy! :P :P
Some pictures of the XP100/300 build. It went very well, even better than the XP200 conversion.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0788.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0789.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0791.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0790.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0792.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0794.jpg)
There you go. Highly recommend the output volume mod. Makes it easy to get unity with other effects now. I'm going to eventually use the other half of the switch for 3mm indicator LED's, to indicate which mode it's in. :icon_cool:
Wow, that's awesome! :icon_eek: Well done!
You've got me interested in messing with my XP-100 now... the unity gain mod and true-bypass would be cool to try...
Can the XP-100 be turned into the "Jetpack XP-1000", or is it easier to just go with the XP-100/XP-300 conversion?
Thanks :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: mwynwood on May 20, 2012, 08:04:00 AM
Wow, that's awesome! :icon_eek: Well done!
You've got me interested in messing with my XP-100 now... the unity gain mod and true-bypass would be cool to try...
Can the XP-100 be turned into the "Jetpack XP-1000", or is it easier to just go with the XP-100/XP-300 conversion?
Thanks :icon_biggrin:
You could do the Jetpack mod, I have the instructions for the hardware mod side of things somewhere (piggybacking the chips), but you need the code for the 3 other effects. I don`t have the Reverberator or Whammy code. If you want the Modulator and SS code, PM me your email address, and I`ll send it to you. Personally, I started with the Modulator, and the Whammy I picked up on the cheap. The Whammy took less time to mod, but either way, I was more interested in having a Space Station than anything else. I`ve got plenty of kit to do what the Whammy and Modulator can do (and better at that!). Although it`s nice to be able to use the Whammy, with the Modulator as the SS, or vice versa, in my case, I use them as dedicated SS units.
I highly recommend the unity mod too. Especially if you`re going to use these pedals in a chain, it`s a must.
Thanks :) I think I'll start simple and give the unity mod a go first...
Do you have instructions for the unity mod?
Then I might look at adding the SS to it, so that it's just a Wammy/SS.
I'm guessing the process involves adding more RAM, and then adding the SS chip with a switch?
Thanks for helping!
The unity mod is fairly straight forward. Unsolder the output jacks, and cut off the ``tip`` solder pin. With a Dremel you may want to even grind back the remaining pin, this will ensure that it doesn`t dig into the insulation of the wire you`re going to install next. Now solder one wire into the hole where the pin was, and another wire onto the metal tang above where the pin was on the jack. These two wires will run to your pot, the board wire to the 2 lug, the jack wire to the 3 lug. Ground the 1 lug. Repeat the exercise for the other output. You could use individual pots for right and left, or like I did, use a dual pot.
For the Whammy, if your version has no 27C256 chip, that means that the code is stored on another chip on the board. This is fine, since it involves much less work to convert. Solder in new sockets for the memory (you`ll need all four for the SS), and a socket for the 27C256. You`ll also need some 10uF Tantalum caps, and an MC34064. Once all you memory, caps, MC34064, and programmed chip in installed, you can install the switch. The switch can be a SPDT, or DPDT if you want to add indicator LED`s. The switch has a resistor on the common pole (check the value here in the thread, the value escapes me at the moment), and will either give +5v or ground on boot up. Depending which, it will boot the unit into Whammy, or SS mode. Check my Whammy pictures, you`ll see that there are through holes on the board already that you can use to solder in your wires. This is much neater and more secure than soldering onto the components. If you look at the picture of the switch, you`ll see that I soldered the resistor directly to the center pole, and then covered it up with heatshrink. I THINK that the resistor is 100 ohms, but like I said, double check the thread to be sure.
As for true bypass, that might be tough. I don`t think that there is enough room underneath for a switch. Check it out. Personally, I don`t have a problem with the bypass on mine.
Cheers,
Dino
any chance that you will sell pre programmed chips?
Quote from: teej212 on May 26, 2012, 09:12:17 PM
any chance that you will sell pre programmed chips?
If you send me a 27C256 chip, I would be more than happy to program it for you, and send it back to you thereafter. All I ask is that you pay the return postage. PM me for details. Please ensure that you get a UV erasable chip. If you want the Modulator code on a chip as well, send two chips.
Quote from: digi2t on May 27, 2012, 05:48:55 AM
Quote from: teej212 on May 26, 2012, 09:12:17 PM
any chance that you will sell pre programmed chips?
If you send me a 27C256 chip, I would be more than happy to program it for you, and send it back to you thereafter. All I ask is that you pay the return postage. PM me for details. Please ensure that you get a UV erasable chip. If you want the Modulator code on a chip as well, send two chips.
Wow, I just might take you up on that!
Is this the right sort of chip: http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/eprom/0394320/ (http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/eprom/0394320/) ?
Oh, and what chips do I need for the extra memory?
Thanks heaps :icon_biggrin:
This is what my stock XP-100 looks like:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2rnk9pc.jpg)
Your XP-100 is good, it's the same as the one I modded, so you're good to go there.
A good solder pump will be required, to open up all the solder holes where the chips will go.
The 27C256 is good, just make sure that it's the model that can be UV erased. According to the datasheet on the page you sent me, it's the FDIP28W (F). You'll need a socket for it. I wouldn't solder it in direct.
For the RAM, three more of the same as what you've got in there now, or four D41464C, will be fine. Don't forget the sockets as well.
The switch resistor is 100 ohms. Check your board, I believe R38 is not present on the Whammy. If it's not there, you'll need a 100 ohm resistor. Just a normal one, you can solder it to your switch.
i will definitely be sending you some chips in the future. Im in the middle of a bunch of projects right now and am strapped for cash, so i probably will not get around to it for a little while unfortunately.
Would LOVE to get this build/mod under my belt BUT....
Still waiting on a good deal on an XP-100!! :(
Been looking around but the best price I can find is in the $125-150 range. I'm too darn CHEAP to pay that!!! :D
digi2t: Great results, congrats!
Hi digi2t,
I've just received a new 27C256 chip in the mail today, and it would be awesome if you could PM me with your details and how I can pay you :icon_biggrin:
Thanks SO much!
Quote from: logich on May 29, 2012, 10:53:13 AM
digi2t: Great results, congrats!
Thank you sir. The Whammy is really easy to do. Thanks to you for your help as well! :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: mwynwood on May 30, 2012, 11:15:06 PM
Hi digi2t,
I've just received a new 27C256 chip in the mail today, and it would be awesome if you could PM me with your details and how I can pay you :icon_biggrin:
Thanks SO much!
PM sent.
I just completed the "Unity Mod" and it works great :icon_biggrin:
Also, I soldered in all the sockets for the ICs - can't wait until they arrive!
(http://i49.tinypic.com/w71lbt.jpg)
Quote from: mwynwood on June 07, 2012, 06:41:17 AM
I just completed the "Unity Mod" and it works great :icon_biggrin:
Also, I soldered in all the sockets for the ICs - can't wait until they arrive!
(http://i49.tinypic.com/w71lbt.jpg)
Marcus,
How did you disconnect the LED board from the main PCB to pull it out for the IC sockets? Did you desolder the wires from the LED board -OR- from the main PCB?
I didn't need to do either.
There is just enough room to squeeze the main board out and flip it upside down without un-soldering anything.
Quote from: mwynwood on June 07, 2012, 07:16:17 PM
I didn't need to do either.
There is just enough room to squeeze the main board out and flip it upside down without un-soldering anything.
Lucky bugger!!!!
Mine wouldn`t come out, on neither unit. Had to desolder the little board off the arm.
I should have a reverberator on saturday. Anyone interested in the reverberator program?
Digi2t, If you want I can send you the eeprom with the reverberator program so you can copy it and share it with others
If you then could write the SS and modulator programs on some blank eeproms which I will add.
I'll PM you in a few days
I'll keep you guys updated on the modding process of the reverberator and I am sure at some point I will need help from some of you. :)
Quote from: somnabula on June 13, 2012, 07:37:10 AM
I should have a reverberator on saturday. Anyone interested in the reverberator program?
Digi2t, If you want I can send you the eeprom with the reverberator program so you can copy it and share it with others
If you then could write the SS and modulator programs on some blank eeproms which I will add.
I'll PM you in a few days
I'll keep you guys updated on the modding process of the reverberator and I am sure at some point I will need help from some of you. :)
That sounds great. I`ll stay tuned for your PM. I`ll send the specs for the 27C256 chips that you`ll need then.
Cheers,
Dino
Quote from: digi2t on June 13, 2012, 12:03:44 PM
That sounds great. I`ll stay tuned for your PM. I`ll send the specs for the 27C256 chips that you`ll need then.
Cheers,
Dino
I might also check with a friend if he can read the program from the eeprom and then I can send you the program straight away.
Anyway, I'll keep you updated.
Thanks man.
And BTW, welcome to the best damn stompbox forum on the planet. :icon_biggrin:
Cheers,
Dino
Hehe, thanks for the welcome.
I have been lurking around for a few weeks, but I thought it was time to make a contribution.
Saturday evening I should get the reverberator, so on Sunday I should have some news for you. Let's hope al goes well.
In the mean time, I will order the eprom.
On ebay I have found 2 kind of chips which seem suitable:
M27C256B-15F6http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/M27C256B-15F6-UV-EPROM-MIT-FENSTER-NEU-1-STUCK-/220901718670?pt=Bauteile&hash=item336ec4ba8e (http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/M27C256B-15F6-UV-EPROM-MIT-FENSTER-NEU-1-STUCK-/220901718670?pt=Bauteile&hash=item336ec4ba8e)
M27C256B -10F1http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/M27C256B-10F1-UV-EPROM-MIT-FENSTER-1-STUCK-/221043739547?pt=Bauteile&hash=item33773bcb9b (http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/M27C256B-10F1-UV-EPROM-MIT-FENSTER-1-STUCK-/221043739547?pt=Bauteile&hash=item33773bcb9b)
You happen to know what the difference is between the 15F6 and the 10F1?
I've tried to google it, but that was hopeless :)
In the end my question is more: what are the important parameters to look at? pin-layout, speed, ...
If my friend would have the equipment to write eeproms, an eeprom should also work I guess? The only difference would then be the way the memory is erased.
Yeah, I am a total noob at digital electronics. :)
Ok, after some more googling I found it.
15F6 has 150ns access time and 10F1 has 100ns access time.
I guess it's better to buy the faster one.
Quote from: somnabula on June 14, 2012, 05:49:53 AM
Ok, after some more googling I found it.
15F6 has 150ns access time and 10F1 has 100ns access time.
I guess it's better to buy the faster one.
Yes, go for the faster one. There's generally little difference in the price.
Ok, so I got hold of the reverberator yesterday.
My friend will try to read the program from the eprom.
I should have the program for the reverberator somewhere this week.
We would also try to write the programs ourselves on the eproms.
So are there any specific instructions for the reading and the writing proces, i.e. the format in which the data should be stored or written?
For the piggybacking of the ic, the link does not work anymore.
The best description I could find on the internet is http://members.optusnet.com.au/tonymy01/magnavox/indexbod.html (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tonymy01/magnavox/indexbod.html)
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/tonymy01/magnavox/piggyback.GIF)
Does anyone of you have a more specific description for the 27C256 chips? Which pin needs to be connected to the switch? If I look at this picture:
(http://www.epanorama.net/images/semi/mcu/27C256.gif)
It should be pin 20. Which resistor value should be used for the bridge between Vcc and ce? Also 27K, like in the website I just quoted?
For R38, can I use a "normal sized" resistor or do I need to use these smaller resistors as used for the rest of the board?
Digi2t, I inspected the photos of your modulator mod and is R38 on the other side of the board, because I don't see it.
Also for the Output mod, with the green wire you solder 2 legs to the casing of the pot. Is this to ground it?
Hehe, I have too many questions...
I'll keep you guys updated on the progress!
@somnabula
Most of the questions you have asked have been discussed in this thread. If you go back and follow Digi2t's posts as well as others, you will find most of the answers you need.
Good Luck ;D
Hehe, I went throught this thread a countless number of times, but because of your post I checked it again and indeed I have now found that the programs should be written and read as .bin files. :)
I am quite a n00b at digital electronics, so can you answer the other questions for me? :)
Quote from: somnabula on June 17, 2012, 02:50:45 PM
Hehe, I went throught this thread a countless number of times, but because of your post I checked it again and indeed I have now found that the programs should be written and read as .bin files. :)
I am quite a n00b at digital electronics, so can you answer the other questions for me? :)
If you have a chip reader/burner, you should also have a GUI of some kind to run it. If you can read the chip, you can save it as a .bin through the burner's GUI. You can save it as a .txt file as well. Both work with my burner.
If you don't, you may send me the chip, and I can extract the code. I'll send the chip back to you after.
Cheers,
Dino
Digi2t
Thanks for the offer, but it should be ok.
Also for the piggybacking of the ic's I've done some more reading and I think I understand it better now.
Just to check if I understand it correctly. The eprom is activated when the CE port sees the VDD and it is deactivated when it is grounded? Or is it the other way around?
And I guess the the value of the resistor doesn't matter as long as it is in the same order of magnitude as it is there to keep the currents small when the CE port is grounded.
I'll PM you once I have the reverberator program from the eprom.
Cheers,
Reni
Quote from: somnabula on June 18, 2012, 10:05:56 AM
I'll PM you once I have the reverberator program from the eprom.
Reni,
Please post here if you get the code off to Digi2t. I was going to do the same thing (send him a 400 chip) but if you recover the code then I need not send it off ;D
Ok, I'll keep you informed. ;)
I've got the reverberator program from the chip! ;D
I still have to send it to Digi2t and he might have to check if it works, but it should be ok.
I will then try to write the eproms myself and report the modding process.
Fingers crossed!
May the force be with you. I'd love to build a clone of the space station.
Quote from: Greenmachine on June 18, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
May the force be with you. I'd love to build a clone of the space station.
You don`t really build anything. It`s just a matter of taking any one of the three other pedals, and making some minor modifications.
Does anyone know where I can find the memory ICs "D41464C" or a "D61464DC"?
I've tried Jaycar, RS, Mouser and even Sydney Keyboards with no luck :icon_cry:
Quote from: mwynwood on June 26, 2012, 01:39:58 AM
Does anyone know where I can find the memory ICs "D41464C" or a "D61464DC"?
I've tried Jaycar, RS, Mouser and even Sydney Keyboards with no luck :icon_cry:
There are some on Ebay.
They are discontinued (I believe), and hard to find. I`ll look into a substitute.
Quote from: mwynwood on June 26, 2012, 01:39:58 AM
Does anyone know where I can find the memory ICs "D41464C" or a "D61464DC"?
I've tried Jaycar, RS, Mouser and even Sydney Keyboards with no luck :icon_cry:
Hey Marcus... any progress with your conversion? ;D
Hi Govmnt_Lacky
No, I haven't ordered the memory ICs yet. :icon_redface:
Other than that, it's all ready to go
- I've already done the "unity mod"
- I've soldered in all the IC Sockets
- I got my XP-300 IC back from Digi2t the other day (THANKS!)
- I have a switch and wires sitting on my desk just waiting!
Sorry for the long wait, but I've been a bit busy lately and it took some time to get all the parts, but I can report that the reverberator program that I copied from my original reverberator works when written on a new eprom. Digi2t also has this program now.
Also the other programs now work in my original reverberator.
I still have to install them all with a rotary switch and do the output volume mod.
I promise to do a photo report once everything is finished.
Anyway, I can already report some weird ass noises coming from the pedal. ;D
Yo,
I was in the market for a whammy and an XP-100 popped up on Craigslist; nabbed it for $60 not even knowing about this mod! As I've been doing lately with new pedals, I decided to check if any mods exist, and stumbled upon many pages about the XP-1000 and this thread!
Anyway, when I get the time/money I think I will attempt the mods recommended in this thread! Glad to see it's relatively active and that everybody is willing to share abilities/code with one another.
P.S. -- When registering and attempting to answer the "Who makes the Les Paul" security question, I tried "Les Paul", "Lester William Polsfuss", and "Lester Polsfuss" ... later realizing the answer was Gibson. Felt like a complete idiot.
Quote from: LocalToast on July 23, 2012, 10:28:14 PM
Yo,
I was in the market for a whammy and an XP-100 popped up on Craigslist; nabbed it for $60 not even knowing about this mod! As I've been doing lately with new pedals, I decided to check if any mods exist, and stumbled upon many pages about the XP-1000 and this thread!
Anyway, when I get the time/money I think I will attempt the mods recommended in this thread! Glad to see it's relatively active and that everybody is willing to share abilities/code with one another.
P.S. -- When registering and attempting to answer the "Who makes the Les Paul" security question, I tried "Les Paul", "Lester William Polsfuss", and "Lester Polsfuss" ... later realizing the answer was Gibson. Felt like a complete idiot.
Welcome to the forum localtoast, and thanks for breaking the ice with that little stoy at the end. Don't worry, we accept everyone here, just the way they are. :icon_lol:
I'm (slowly) compiling a build article for the XP-100 to XP-ALL. I plan on having it available to all for download in the gallery, in the near future. I'll also have the code available, for those with the capacity to burn their own chips. I will also offer a chip burning service, for those without the capacity to do so.
So, sit tight.
Cheers,
Dino
I think it's really cool how much you support this mod, digi2t. Anyway I could get the code now and worry about burning it later? It'd be fun just to look at. :D
I hopefully will have access to an EPROM programmer and other such resources at my university; I am an electrical engineering undergrad. I'll just say it's part of an independent study :P
My board is identical to mwynwood's, so I will have to be on the prowl for the memory IC's on eBay. Currently this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAM-D41464C-12-NEC-18-Pin-DIP-41464C-41464-/370263994587) is available, although it lists a 120ns response time. Any other places I should look?
As a side note, just looking at the construction of this thing, I would really like to upgrade the pedal itself to something akin to a Crybaby and possibly replace the LED/photoresistor with an actual potentiometer (if that would be more practical -- the mechanical upgrade would probably suffice). I feel like the footswitches could use an upgrade as well, although it would kind of ruin the aesthetic of the pedal... something kind of nostalgic about cheap black plastic.
It's all money to be burnt, for sure.
Quote from: LocalToast on July 25, 2012, 12:04:49 AM
I think it's really cool how much you support this mod, digi2t. Anyway I could get the code now and worry about burning it later? It'd be fun just to look at. :D
I hopefully will have access to an EPROM programmer and other such resources at my university; I am an electrical engineering undergrad. I'll just say it's part of an independent study :P
My board is identical to mwynwood's, so I will have to be on the prowl for the memory IC's on eBay. Currently this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAM-D41464C-12-NEC-18-Pin-DIP-41464C-41464-/370263994587) is available, although it lists a 120ns response time. Any other places I should look?
As a side note, just looking at the construction of this thing, I would really like to upgrade the pedal itself to something akin to a Crybaby and possibly replace the LED/photoresistor with an actual potentiometer (if that would be more practical -- the mechanical upgrade would probably suffice). I feel like the footswitches could use an upgrade as well, although it would kind of ruin the aesthetic of the pedal... something kind of nostalgic about cheap black plastic.
It's all money to be burnt, for sure.
Yup, those RAM chips are fine. That's what we used. 120ns is fine, but for the 27C256, don't go slower that 150ns (-15). Apparently there are boot up problems that may occur when stacking them for multi-boot applications.
I will be posting all the code soon in the gallery. Then everyone will be able to access them, without me having to email them.
Quote from: digi2t on July 25, 2012, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: LocalToast on July 25, 2012, 12:04:49 AM
I think it's really cool how much you support this mod, digi2t. Anyway I could get the code now and worry about burning it later? It'd be fun just to look at. :D
I hopefully will have access to an EPROM programmer and other such resources at my university; I am an electrical engineering undergrad. I'll just say it's part of an independent study :P
My board is identical to mwynwood's, so I will have to be on the prowl for the memory IC's on eBay. Currently this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAM-D41464C-12-NEC-18-Pin-DIP-41464C-41464-/370263994587) is available, although it lists a 120ns response time. Any other places I should look?
As a side note, just looking at the construction of this thing, I would really like to upgrade the pedal itself to something akin to a Crybaby and possibly replace the LED/photoresistor with an actual potentiometer (if that would be more practical -- the mechanical upgrade would probably suffice). I feel like the footswitches could use an upgrade as well, although it would kind of ruin the aesthetic of the pedal... something kind of nostalgic about cheap black plastic.
It's all money to be burnt, for sure.
Yup, those RAM chips are fine. That's what we used. 120ns is fine, but for the 27C256, don't go slower that 150ns (-15). Apparently there are boot up problems that may occur when stacking them for multi-boot applications.
I will be posting all the code soon in the gallery. Then everyone will be able to access them, without me having to email them.
Hi digi2t,
Do you have any updates on this? I've just bought necessary parts to get my XP100 modified to xp300 and really looking for the xp300 firmware :)
All XP series .bin files, and schematics, are now available here;
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/Information/Digitech+XP/ (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/Information/Digitech+XP/)
Not that I don't like hearing from you guys, but you can all help yourselves. ;D
Thanks dino for this great contribution to the community!
In the mean time I still haven't gotten to piggybacking the chips and installing the rotary switch due to other projects and lack of time.
But this is now getting priority. ;D
The best of luck with the modding to all of you!
Quote from: somnabula on August 21, 2012, 03:27:46 PM
Thanks dino for this great contribution to the community!
In the mean time I still haven't gotten to piggybacking the chips and installing the rotary switch due to other projects and lack of time.
But this is now getting priority. ;D
The best of luck with the modding to all of you!
I most definately may not take total credit for the mod. Govmnt_Lacky played a huge role as well. Much of the "XP-ALL" grunt work was done by him, with me providing code, thoughts, and at times, cheerleading :icon_mrgreen:.
Anyhow, we're slowly putting together a build paper for the XP-ALL, so as anyone who wants to do the build, may do so. Without falling into the pitfalls we did! The paper will concentrate on the complete conversion. We figured that anyone with skills enough to tackle the complete conversion, should be able to do a reduced build i.e. XP-100/XP-300 only. In any case, we're always here to field questions.
If I may boast, we did figure out how to switch between modes WITHOUT having to power down the unit. This was a major coup for us, putting our version ahead of the Jetpack versions. I'm not one to toot a horn, but we were very happy about this one. :icon_cool:
As soon as the paper is complete, I'll post, and upload it to the Gallery.
Quote from: digi2t on August 21, 2012, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: somnabula on August 21, 2012, 03:27:46 PM
Thanks dino for this great contribution to the community!
In the mean time I still haven't gotten to piggybacking the chips and installing the rotary switch due to other projects and lack of time.
But this is now getting priority. ;D
The best of luck with the modding to all of you!
I most definately may not take total credit for the mod. Govmnt_Lacky played a huge role as well. Much of the "XP-ALL" grunt work was done by him, with me providing code, thoughts, and at times, cheerleading :icon_mrgreen:.
Anyhow, we're slowly putting together a build paper for the XP-ALL, so as anyone who wants to do the build, may do so. Without falling into the pitfalls we did! The paper will concentrate on the complete conversion. We figured that anyone with skills enough to tackle the complete conversion, should be able to do a reduced build i.e. XP-100/XP-300 only. In any case, we're always here to field questions.
If I may boast, we did figure out how to switch between modes WITHOUT having to power down the unit. This was a major coup for us, putting our version ahead of the Jetpack versions. I'm not one to toot a horn, but we were very happy about this one. :icon_cool:
As soon as the paper is complete, I'll post, and upload it to the Gallery.
Thank you so much for all your work guys!
My RAM arrived in the mail the other day, so I'll be attempting my XP-100/300 conversion very soon!
I'm interested in how to switch modes without powering down... sounds great!
(http://www.emoticonsfree.org/wp-content/uploads/sign0092.gif) (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/free-sign-emoticons.html)(http://www.emoticonsfree.org/wp-content/uploads/party0040.gif) (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/free-party-emoticons.html)
@Dino
Thanks for the kind props! Although I must admit that my effort is a tad overstated :icon_redface:
By the way.... I have not forgotten about the contribution to the paper. Things are hectic now but I'll refocus and try to get you the requested info.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on August 21, 2012, 08:49:28 PM
@Dino
Thanks for the kind props! Although I must admit that my effort is a tad overstated :icon_redface:
By the way.... I have not forgotten about the contribution to the paper. Things are hectic now but I'll refocus and try to get you the requested info.
No problemo brother. As soon as I get it, I can finish the paper and post it.
dudes...i believe i'm getting a space station tomorrow...could that be converted to an "all" by someone of my (low) skill levels? :icon_twisted:
Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on September 21, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
dudes...i believe i'm getting a space station tomorrow...could that be converted to an "all" by someone of my (low) skill levels? :icon_twisted:
Get the SS to an "ALL" is fairly easy. Personally, I wouldn't mess with it. It's worth way more in it's original state.
but...
i godda modulator, too. ;)
perhaps that would be a better candidate? ;)
Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on September 22, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
but...
i godda modulator, too. ;)
perhaps that would be a better candidate? ;)
Mod the modulator ;D
Keep the SS stock ;)
sounds like a plan!! ;)
i just tried them for the first time.
man...that space station is on ACID
the modulator is cool, but not so very...
gotta lot of stuff to sort thru, including a couple old-school MIUSA eh micro synths etc..
is there a list of all the programs (sounds) of each of the 4 pedals?
if not could the lucky owners of the originals please create it or just scan the bottom?
I can contriute the xp400 once I've received it.
hi rocket,
thanks for your kind and awesome offer, i believe that the 400 is already copied.
that said...you can get a listing of all the presets, digitech's web site has all the owner's manuals, with full patch listings for them.
i've got an XPALL being built up ,
i am so damn psyched i can barely contain myself!
seriously considering making a live setup with that, a fuzzface, my crybaby, and a gt5 so i can move the xp to wherever it sounds best in the chain.
could you please post a link to the patches?
I only found this: ftp://ftp.digitech.com/pub/pdfs/Discontinued/Manuals/XP300.pdf
there are no patches given, neither in the XP400.pdf at th same place
i can post the space station patches for ya when i get a chance, the modulation station shipped out today to be modified, sorry bro
I'm almost finished the build guide for the XP-100 to XP-ALL conversion (freakin' brick!)
Anywho, I've added all the factory patches of all the models at the end of document.
It's now in Greg's hands for editing/correction. Should have it done soon.
awesome...
my modulator went out to him today for the conversion...dino, check your pm's please. ;)
greets all,
i got myself a whammy few days ago, and then came across these pages.. plenty of usefull information here !
so now i'm exited to uprade it to a xp100/200/300 as the 400 is not so interesting to me.
so i downloaded the bin files from here and got some memory from ebay, so now i'm in the proces of playing with the whammy til all parts arive..
i was thinking, to convert this pedal into a bass whammy, is that also a matter of eprom swapping, or has it to do with elco values like in analog pedals ?
i was also thinking it might be very easy to make an CV input for the pedal, like just a female minijack connector attached to a LED in front of the photoresistor.. any thoughts on that?
thanks a lot to al you guys for being helpfull and sharing information, you made me very enthousiastic :)
Quotei got myself a whammy few days ago
Did you get a Whammy, or an XP-100? Two completely different beasts. The Whammy cannot be converted to other XP models. Could you please post a picture of the model you have?
Quotei was thinking, to convert this pedal into a bass whammy, is that also a matter of eprom swapping, or has it to do with elco values like in analog pedals
I don`t know, but by the looks of it, again, totally different beast.
Quotei was also thinking it might be very easy to make an CV input for the pedal, like just a female minijack connector attached to a LED in front of the photoresistor.. any thoughts on that?
I`m sure it would be possible. Do a search on the forum, I`m sure that there is a scheme available to fit your application.
Quote from: digi2t on September 29, 2012, 03:13:25 PM
Did you get a Whammy, or an XP-100? Two completely different beasts. The Whammy cannot be converted to other XP models. Could you please post a picture of the model you have?
yes, the xp100 it is :)
the person i got the eproms from, burned both the .BIN files (xp200 and xp300) on one eprom 27512
he says they fit both on one eprom and i can enable each by connecting pin 27 either to 5V or to ground.
would that work you think?
i'm sorry if my questions are a bit silly, it is a whole new world for me :icon_redface:
Quote from: nochtanseenspecht on September 29, 2012, 06:05:46 PM
the person i got the eproms from, burned both the .BIN files (xp200 and xp300) on one eprom 27512
he says they fit both on one eprom and i can enable each by connecting pin 27 either to 5V or to ground.
would that work you think?
You can always try. It will be a gamble though as the XP series was built and programed to use the 27C256 series EPROMs.
If you decide to try.... definitely report back! Enquiring minds
WANT TO KNOW! ;D
i guess i wil give it a try, he burned the EPROMs allready anyway
i definately report back to you if this works :icon_biggrin:
but first have to wait for the memory to arrive
..i want that spacestation so badly, what a cool FX that is :o
Hi guys,
Help! I'm having some trouble.
It doesn't matter what the switch is doing, it's always an XP-100!
Have I missed something?
(http://i47.tinypic.com/ndoac7.jpg)
Quote from: mwynwood on September 30, 2012, 02:41:50 AM
Hi guys,
Help! I'm having some trouble.
It doesn't matter what the switch is doing, it's always an XP-100!
Have I missed something?
(http://i47.tinypic.com/ndoac7.jpg)
You`re missing the 74HC574 chip, it goes just to the left of the EPROM. It`s an SMD package.
Do not pass go, do not collect 200$. :icon_mrgreen:
Kind of hard to tell from the pic, but I think that`s all you`re missing.
Build guide will be out this week, you`ll be able to go through it, and check list your build.
Cheers,
Dino
Quote from: mwynwood on September 30, 2012, 02:41:50 AM
Hi guys,
Help! I'm having some trouble.
It doesn't matter what the switch is doing, it's always an XP-100!
Have I missed something?
(http://i47.tinypic.com/ndoac7.jpg)
In addition to missing the SMD chip that digi2t stated, you also have a wiring problem. It will be addressed in the build documents but I will explain.
It has to do with there your RED wire is going. I know that digi2t wired his conversion this way however, it leads to problems once you want to use the stereo output jack.
To fix the problem, you will need to desolder your red wire from where it is on the PCB and solder it DIRECTLY TO THE SLEEVE TAB ON J2 (right output jack)
Trust me ;)
I have done several of these conversions and it will not work correctly the way you currently have it wired.
I'm sure digi2t will back me up on this one ;D
QuoteI'm sure digi2t will back me up on this one
Backed up. 1000%... he`s the Daddy! Wire it as Greg says.
P.S. Greg, is the doc OK. If so, I`ll get it out.
I say release the hounds bro!
I am sure there will be questions anyways ;)
Might wanna start a new thread with the link and a place for questions. :icon_cool:
Thanks for the quick replies guys!
I think I'll wait for the documentation before I go any further... :icon_cool:
Quote from: mwynwood on September 30, 2012, 10:52:26 PM
Thanks for the quick replies guys!
I think I'll wait for the documentation before I go any further... :icon_cool:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=48006&g2_GALLERYSID=ac83e5003bcd2ddc4c381f3877637913 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=48006&g2_GALLERYSID=ac83e5003bcd2ddc4c381f3877637913)
Troubleshooting thread, in connection to the document, has been started here in the DSP section of the forum.
Cheers,
Dino
this is fantastic work Dino! thanks a lot man
everybody go spacestation :o :o :o
meanwhile i can report that a made a simple cv input on my xp100, it works fine
so now i can control the pedal function by MIDI , wich is in my (studio)situation very welcome
if anyone's interested i can post a picture,but i guess you can figure out yourselves..
i've tried several LED's, and red seems to give the best results
Quote from: nochtanseenspecht on October 01, 2012, 05:59:57 PM
this is fantastic work Dino! thanks a lot man
everybody go spacestation :o :o :o
meanwhile i can report that a made a simple cv input on my xp100, it works fine
so now i can control the pedal function by MIDI , wich is in my (studio)situation very welcome
if anyone's interested i can post a picture,but i guess you can figure out yourselves..
i've tried several LED's, and red seems to give the best results
That's great news.
Please post pictures. Although some things can be "figured out", we always encourage an exchange of information, especially visual. You just never know, maybe you've done something a certain way, that may help out someone else down the line.
BTW, have you ever use boards from Highly Liquid for MIDI implementation? I've used their relay board for switching, quite nice. They have other kits as well.
Cheers,
Dino
hm i feel silly, but i can't figure how to attach a picture to this message.. :-\
but basically it is just a LED in front of the photocell, hooked to a female minijack chassisconnector.
the minijack is fed with CV from my syntecno teebee wich converts the MIDI signals from the sequencer.. autofootcontrol :D
Highly Liquid i haven't used so far, i was thinking to get a midi-trigger thing, for an old drumbox. it is nice that they exist
btw, i have another revision xp100 than in your documentation, the smd chip is allready there as well as the eprom socced
so thats lucky for me.. i will give it a try with only the extra RAM + tantalums. see if it works
i'm to lazy to do the stereo mod..maybe later on. is this a worthy contribution to the reversed delay effect ?
cheers, david
Quote from: nochtanseenspecht on October 03, 2012, 07:12:32 PM
hm i feel silly, but i can't figure how to attach a picture to this message.. :-\
but basically it is just a LED in front of the photocell, hooked to a female minijack chassisconnector.
the minijack is fed with CV from my syntecno teebee wich converts the MIDI signals from the sequencer.. autofootcontrol :D
Highly Liquid i haven't used so far, i was thinking to get a midi-trigger thing, for an old drumbox. it is nice that they exist
btw, i have another revision xp100 than in your documentation, the smd chip is allready there as well as the eprom socced
so thats lucky for me.. i will give it a try with only the extra RAM + tantalums. see if it works
i'm to lazy to do the stereo mod..maybe later on. is this a worthy contribution to the reversed delay effect ?
cheers, david
I`m really intrigued to see the guts of your XP-100. To place photos in your post, open an account with a photo server (Photobucket, Imageshack, etc.), and upload your pictures there. Once that is done, copy the address fo the picture on the server (example;
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0748.jpg), and then paste it here, using the «insert image» button, found just above the reply text box. Clicking the button will give this;
(http://*)
Simply insert the picture address where I`ve placed the asterisk. Using the example address above, you get this;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF0748.jpg)
Usually photo servers will give you several choices of address formats i.e. http, img, etc. If so, copy the «img» format, and the img prefix and suffix will already be attched to the photo address when you paste it here. That way you won`t even need to click the button above, simply paste the address.
Hope that helps.
Dino
Thanks for the explanation Dino,
i give it a try:
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a616/zpecht/DSC02941_zps25e334c0.jpg)
Thanks for the pic David. I had never seen an early version of the board before. Yours uses the EPROM to hold the program, whereas the later version uses U10.
I'm assuming that there is one SRAM chip in the U19 slot? Picture is cut short on the bottom :icon_mrgreen:.
Cheers,
Dino
indeed, one SRAM chip in the U19 slot.
i wait for the other RAM to arrive.
my xp-100 has serialnumber jp47dc-10003
hi friends
i want to do this mod to a xp 100..
i have a question
i just need an programer "the eprom is virgen" (M27C256 UV EPROM 256K 32K x 8bit FDIP28) or i need also an eraser?
could be fine this programer?: http://www.ebay.es/itm/USB-Programmer-for-EPROM-27Cxxx-27c256-27c512-etc-/130646482173?pt=Attrezzature_e_strumentazione&hash=item1e6b231cfd
or maybe i have to look for another one? i use portatil and i have just an usb conector..
Quote from: nochtanseenspecht on October 04, 2012, 04:38:34 AM
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a616/zpecht/DSC02941_zps25e334c0.jpg)
Lucky dog! ;D
You already have the SMD chip soldered in there!!!
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/xp100.png)
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/xp200.png)
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/xp300.png)
(http://www.dominocs.com/ToneWorks/images/XP400.jpg)
did somebody have or had
noise on xp 100???
i have this problem...
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 04, 2012, 03:28:51 PM
hi friends
i want to do this mod to a xp 100..
i have a question
i just need an programer "the eprom is virgen" (M27C256 UV EPROM 256K 32K x 8bit FDIP28) or i need also an eraser?
could be fine this programer?: http://www.ebay.es/itm/USB-Programmer-for-EPROM-27Cxxx-27c256-27c512-etc-/130646482173?pt=Attrezzature_e_strumentazione&hash=item1e6b231cfd
or maybe i have to look for another one? i use portatil and i have just an usb conector..
From what I can tell, the programmer should be fine. One thing you should verify is if the software/hardware allows you to program at different speeds. I found that some EPROM's don't like programming at high speeds, producing an unusable chip.
I HIGHLY recommend purchasing a UV eraser as well. A small eraser is not expensive. The reason for which I recommend the eraser is because how sure are you that the EPROM you are buying is "virgin"? What if the memory is blank, but corrupted? I always run my chip through the UV before programming, just to ensure that I don't have any surprises. Also, what if you chip gets corrupted (static electricity) between the programmer and the socket? That has happened to me. I had to erase, and reprogram. This is the eraser I am using;
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Eprom-eraser-Ultraviolet-UV-Lamp-Light-once-eraser-6pcs-IC-/280900176187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4166f4893b (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Eprom-eraser-Ultraviolet-UV-Lamp-Light-once-eraser-6pcs-IC-/280900176187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4166f4893b)
Quotedid somebody have or had
noise on xp 100???
i have this problem...
As for noise from you XP-100, could you please be more specific? What kind of noise? Are you using the proper power supply? More info please.
Thanks Dino and GovmtLacky!!!
Quote from: Greenmachine on October 05, 2012, 09:22:12 AM
Thanks Dino and GovmtLacky!!!
Very welcome! :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 05, 2012, 06:22:14 AM
did somebody have or had
noise on xp 100???
i have this problem...
make sure your gain trimmer isn't too "hot"...it will make all kinds of weird, edge-of-distorting sounds happen. did you try turning the input gain down slightly?
can you post a clip of the noise(s) you're getting?
thanks!
dino and greg....
man...i love you guys... :icon_mrgreen:
hi
the pedal that im looking is of my friend,
he told me that the noise problem is like an " FFFFF " and not like an " HUM " as the power supply can give, but the noise is very little.
he will make me a soundclip,
and i will check what happend.
and the power supply is original
still sounds to me like the input signal is too hot.
well thx, i think too that is the input signal problem "maybe guitar with active pickup and too hot input trimmer signal".
by the way, a question: i want to mod the digitech xp to convert for example in the xp 300 model. i have a pdf where i can to have 4 pedals in 1 "xp 100 200 300 400".
if i only want to make an xp100 like a xp300, what i have to mod extacly?
and is possible to mod a xp200?
thx
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 07, 2012, 12:51:16 PM
well thx, i think too that is the input signal problem "maybe guitar with active pickup and too hot input trimmer signal".
by the way, a question: i want to mod the digitech xp to convert for example in the xp 300 model. i have a pdf where i can to have 4 pedals in 1 "xp 100 200 300 400".
if i only want to make an xp100 like a xp300, what i have to mod extacly?
and is possible to mod a xp200?
thx
Answers to all of your questions can be found in THIS thread. ;D
Does he have any other effects in the chain, or is he going guitar - XP100 - amplifier?
i think i'm gonna have to mod my xpALL with the output level control..
i used it at the gig friday...A LOT ;D
amazing how many spotsstops i could interjecttcejretni patch 10 from the xp300003px
but i DID have to pretty much turn the input trimmer just about off, or it was overdriving the snots out of the rest of the chain.
i ran a ge/si fuzzface first, then the space station, then the shin ei 6tr superfuzz, into my usual line up (mictester's super cheap compressor, fuzz face, crybaby, klon(e), SHO, dim C, hash browns flanger, fx17 (set as a volume controller) ,nova delay, rotovibe,clone theory and rebote >> princeton) and it really made the FF sound bad until i backed off most of the input gain..that one control now controls the overall gain of my whole signal chain, so i'm figuring it's got a hot output, necessitating the further mod with the stacked output pot.
i absotively love the xp100 and 300...the xp200 is useful, xp400...well...ummm...cool to have, but wtf were they thinking?
looks like mostly i'll be using the xp300, but it's nice to have the whammy on board, too.
that said....still sounds to me, like the active pickups are overdriving the input of fendrix's xp.
he just run the guitar into xp 100 and to amplifier, by the way i guess he has got active pickups..
about the mod "4 in 1", have i to solder the 4 memories one over the other? how can the selector to choose the memory the extacly memory?
you would need to research how much memory you need, and add accordingly.
you don't HAVE to add all the modules if you don't want to deal with it. to me, xp100,200, and 300 are the important ones.
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 07, 2012, 04:07:41 PM
he just run the guitar into xp 100 and to amplifier, by the way i guess he has got active pickups..
about the mod "4 in 1", have i to solder the 4 memories one over the other? how can the selector to choose the memory the extacly memory?
If you are modding an XP100 then all of the info you need is in the PDF document that you downloaded.
If you are modding an XP200, 300, or 400 then you will need to do a little research but it is very do-able.
well thx for the answer,
so following step by step the guide pdf i will have 4 pedals in 1 right?
thx for suppot friends!! :)
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 07, 2012, 04:57:31 PM
well thx for the answer,
so following step by step the guide pdf i will have 4 pedals in 1 right?
thx for suppot friends!! :)
If you are modding an XP100..... Yes ;D
QuoteIf you are modding an XP100 then all of the info you need is in the PDF document that you downloaded.
If you are modding an XP200, 300, or 400 then you will need to do a little research but it is very do-able.
Actually, modding a 200, 300, or 400 into an XP-ALL isn't that complex. Just need to stack all four EPROM's, without the sockets so they fit under the hood.. I have the XP100 code for a 27C256 EPROM. Everything runs off the EPROM's. Switching, wiring, etc. would be all the same.
Ok, so if I have a modulator and I wanted to turn it into a 3 in 1 (200-300-400) and NOT include the xp100, it would be easy because I wouldnt have to add all the other components, correct? Just get some extra RAM and 3 Eproms?
Can anyone (UK pref, or EU) program some of the EPROM for me?
I've got hold of a batch of 11 chips, if you someone could program six of them (i.e. 2 each XP200, 300, 400) I'd be happy for you to keep the other five. Or I could send other interesting parts if you prefer.
Also, and apologies if this has been asked before, has anybody found a decent source for the RAM in UK or EU?
QuoteOk, so if I have a modulator and I wanted to turn it into a 3 in 1 (200-300-400) and NOT include the xp100, it would be easy because I wouldnt have to add all the other components, correct? Just get some extra RAM and 3 Eproms?
That's correct. Just go over the board to ensure that there are no missing components. If there are, add them, and use the EPROM and wiring strategy as per the build document.
QuoteCan anyone (UK pref, or EU) program some of the EPROM for me?
I've got hold of a batch of 11 chips, if you someone could program six of them (i.e. 2 each XP200, 300, 400) I'd be happy for you to keep the other five. Or I could send other interesting parts if you prefer.
Also, and apologies if this has been asked before, has anybody found a decent source for the RAM in UK or EU?
Mark, check the Stompbox section post, I replied there.
As for the RAM, I found this guy on EBay;
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/261052206092?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/261052206092?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
I managed to buy from him at 2.60$ a piece, which is REALLY good.
please listen the xp100 that i will buy
the little distortion is made from a bad recording, the amp is clean.
turn up the volume and listen. it is normal?
https://rapidshare.com/#!download|285p4|465181259|Digitech%20XP100.mp3|629|0|0
did somebody buied the 27c256 used or new?
there is somebody who sell for only 1 euro for piece but they are used
so i would like to know is maybe i can have problem with the chip "maybe broke" or just can be ok using an eraser.
is the a100k dual gang pot, a lin or log?
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 08, 2012, 04:22:20 PM
is the a100k dual gang pot, a lin or log?
A = Log
B = Linear
C = Anti-Log
A100K = 100K Log pot
Quoteplease listen the xp100 that i will buy
the little distortion is made from a bad recording, the amp is clean.
turn up the volume and listen. it is normal?
https://rapidshare.com/#!download|285p4|465181259|Digitech%20XP100.mp3|629|0|0
That sounds like the input of the pedal is really overloaded. That's what mine sounds like if I have the input volume up too high and it's clipping.
Quotedid somebody buied the 27c256 used or new?
there is somebody who sell for only 1 euro for piece but they are used
so i would like to know is maybe i can have problem with the chip "maybe broke" or just can be ok using an eraser.
I've bought used EPROM's before, and to date, I haven't had a problem. As I've mentioned before, I always send them through the UV eraser first before programming. Just remember though, used is... well.... used. Buyer beware!
would be good this eprom?
http://www.ebay.es/itm/220901718670?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Quote from: fendrix_81 on October 10, 2012, 10:56:29 AM
would be good this eprom?
http://www.ebay.es/itm/220901718670?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
That is NOT the eprom. That is the RAM chip. An XP ALL requires 4 of these to operate correctly. I believe the XP100 and XP200 come with 1 of these already installed (each). The XP400 comes with 2 or 3. And the XP300 has all 4.
The EPROM that you need is a 27C256 that is UV erasable. They look like this:
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkBjWGFZsbRx5AOEjUIr8YXuQGaaH6i8wrkt8Md992nzO8aQMblt6SYaE)
You need to make sure the chip has the window in the center ;D
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on September 29, 2012, 06:15:50 PM
Quote from: nochtanseenspecht on September 29, 2012, 06:05:46 PM
the person i got the eproms from, burned both the .BIN files (xp200 and xp300) on one eprom 27512
he says they fit both on one eprom and i can enable each by connecting pin 27 either to 5V or to ground.
would that work you think?
You can always try. It will be a gamble though as the XP series was built and programed to use the 27C256 series EPROMs.
If you decide to try.... definitely report back! Enquiring minds WANT TO KNOW! ;D
ok, here's my report from across the ocean :
i got my xp working with the 27512 ..YES!! the 27512 got both the xp20 and 300 wich can be activated with a switch from pin 1 to either pin 14 or (an 1K resitor in series with) pin 28 . so that means that with two 27512 eproms you can cover the whole xp series :icon_biggrin:
thanks a lot Govmnt_Lacky and digi2t for all great explanations!
and now.... time for music!
EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!
Any chance you could share how the chips were programmed? How were you able to load BOTH programs on the chip?
If you can share this info then it can be added to the build documents for others to use ;D
Thanks!!!
:icon_eek:
Please, do explain the programming process to get 2 programs on the 27C512. I've read that tuners do it to have two different performance programs on tap at the flip of a switch.
That could mean two chips = XP ALL.
That's just toooo cooooool :icon_cool:.
Time to research.....
unfortunately i have to admit that i don't know anything about programming,
i got the EPROM of a local advertisement site, and the man did the programming for free, i provided him with the .BIN files you shared here.
he told me he put the xp200 on the low side and the xp300 on the high side and thats all i know :icon_neutral:
i could ask him how he did it if you like?
anyways its late here, i must sleep,
but tomorrow i will draw you a schematic how to connect the 27512 the proper way
cheers david
Quote from: nochtanseenspecht on October 11, 2012, 08:47:20 PM
unfortunately i have to admit that i don't know anything about programming,
i got the EPROM of a local advertisement site, and the man did the programming for free, i provided him with the .BIN files you shared here.
he told me he put the xp200 on the low side and the xp300 on the high side and thats all i know :icon_neutral:
i could ask him how he did it if you like?
anyways its late here, i must sleep,
but tomorrow i will draw you a schematic how to connect the 27512 the proper way
cheers david
OK David. I believe that I've got the programming side of things figured out. As a matter of fact, I found a neat program that appends up to 4 programs for you, and outputs a .bin file when done.
The wiring would be interesting to see. I found info on that as well, but it will be nice to validate it with what you have.
Cheers,
Dino
ok here's how i wired it, works perfect:
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a616/zpecht/DSC02967_zps8b817ac6.jpg)
in this wiring there's only 3 xp modes available, (as i was not interested in the xp400)
Excellent David. Thanks a ton for the drawing. It does validate to a great extent my research on loading the 4 programs on one chip.
Thank you very much for taking your time to draw it out, and posting it.
Cheers,
Dino
kudos all around to all you crazy sons of...
i have been getting more familiar with this pedal daily, and it's kinda blowing my mind.
if we could midify it, just so you could select whatever patch you need, it would be absolutely perfect.
so... does this mean with david's mod, all 4 xp's will be able to share one chip?
this gets cooler by the minute! <pink grabs some popcorn to camp out>
Quote from: digi2t on October 13, 2012, 08:18:14 AM
Excellent David. Thanks a ton for the drawing. It does validate to a great extent my research on loading the 4 programs on one chip.
Thank you very much for taking your time to draw it out, and posting it.
Cheers,
Dino
You're welcome, Dino
wow..all four on one chip :o that would be so wonderfull
btw i had a failure last night , the pedal didn't respond anymore
it was frightening, but luckily after recallibration it rocks fine again
Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on October 13, 2012, 09:15:43 AM
kudos all around to all you crazy sons of...
i have been getting more familiar with this pedal daily, and it's kinda blowing my mind.
if we could midify it, just so you could select whatever patch you need, it would be absolutely perfect.
so... does this mean with david's mod, all 4 xp's will be able to share one chip?
this gets cooler by the minute! <pink grabs some popcorn to camp out>
Not quite, the 27C512 can only hold 2 programs max. That means you still need to piggyback chips, BUT......
I'm currently working on retro fitting a larger 1mBit chip in here, that will hold all four programs. The programs will be "hot" switchable, as the XP-ALL is. It will also streamline the XP-ALL mod process in the sense that there will be no chip piggybacking, only one chip to program, and the mod process will be identical for
all XP series pedals. The switch I'm looking at using will also allow LED indication of which mode you're in. Yup... that's the plan.
Also, I'm experimenting with a mod to restore the stereo to the XP-ALL in 100 mode. It should be applicable to present, and future XP-ALL models, using already existing board thru-holes, and switch poles. You'll be able to either mount the component onto a small piece of veroboard and screw it in, or simply glue it into the unit somewhere. This should restore the XP-100 mode to it's original stereo configuration.
Jeez my drawing board is FULL! :icon_eek:
@David - The factory reset is "de rigeur" after a mod. I found that the units are never stable after a mod, and may seem to work fine, but crash at some point. A factory reset generally tends to settle out any problems. I mention it in the build document, but I think I should do a rewrite here to stress the need for one after a mod a bit more.
ah i see.. i must have missed that when i studied your document.
i also used a switch that is wired to LED's to show wich mode you're in.. nice
only i couldn't find the low voltage detector in my neighborhood, so i was thinking to just cut one diode from the bridge and wire that to the mode switch (there are some free poles available still) in order to make a powercycle while changing to an other mode, so i don't have to take out the power connector after mode changing (like you described)
would that work you think?i mean to make use of an diode instead of the low voltage detector (u13)
Quote from: digi2t on October 13, 2012, 10:14:27 AM
I'm currently working on retro fitting a larger 1mBit chip in here, that will hold all four programs. The programs will be "hot" switchable, as the XP-ALL is. It will also streamline the XP-ALL mod process in the sense that there will be no chip piggybacking, only one chip to program, and the mod process will be identical for all XP series pedals. The switch I'm looking at using will also allow LED indication of which mode you're in. Yup... that's the plan.
I won an XP100 on ebay last week, and I was feeling a bit ticked off that it hasn't arrived yet. Then I read this post, and of course I'm gonna wait to see your new mods, so I'm kinda happy that I haven't received and modded/broken it yet.
Thanks Dino.
Quote from: markeebee on October 13, 2012, 03:40:49 PM
Quote from: digi2t on October 13, 2012, 10:14:27 AM
I'm currently working on retro fitting a larger 1mBit chip in here, that will hold all four programs. The programs will be "hot" switchable, as the XP-ALL is. It will also streamline the XP-ALL mod process in the sense that there will be no chip piggybacking, only one chip to program, and the mod process will be identical for all XP series pedals. The switch I'm looking at using will also allow LED indication of which mode you're in. Yup... that's the plan.
I won an XP100 on ebay last week, and I was feeling a bit ticked off that it hasn't arrived yet. Then I read this post, and of course I'm gonna wait to see your new mods, so I'm kinda happy that I haven't received and modded/broken it yet.
Thanks Dino.
Mark, sit tight on it for now. I'm waiting on parts for possibly a fairly substantial revamp on the conversion method. Let me get my stuff, and do my testing. I'll let you know the best route to take.
Multiple firmwares in 1 Eprom.
A 1 megbit eprom is 4 times as large as a 256kbit eprom. Therefore to be able to adress all memory locations one will need 2 extra adress lines. Look up the differences between a 27C256 and a 27C010 eprom and you'll see the difference is that it has an A15 and A16 adress line that thew 256 lacks.
Now, to get all XP firmwares in an eprom one will have to make a new binary file that contains all 4 XP eprom images with a hex editor. It is important that the start of the binary data for a "next" image starts at the right adress.
The XP100 image starts at adress 00000hex
The XP200 image starts at adress 08000hex
The XP300 image starts at adress 10000hex
The XP400 image starts at adress 18000hex
After this, by selecting binary 00, 01, 10 or 11 on the A15 and A16 lines one selects which XP binary is loaded upon reset. And you'll need to make a converter board that ports the A0 upto A14 adress lines, the control bus and the databus for a 27C010 to a 27C256 size that connects to the XP board. Which I prefer far above the piggybacking.
Quote from: Dirk_Hendrik on October 16, 2012, 01:37:54 PM
Multiple firmwares in 1 Eprom.
A 1 megbit eprom is 4 times as large as a 256kbit eprom. Therefore to be able to adress all memory locations one will need 2 extra adress lines. Look up the differences between a 27C256 and a 27C010 eprom and you'll see the difference is that it has an A15 and A16 adress line that thew 256 lacks.
Now, to get all XP firmwares in an eprom one will have to make a new binary file that contains all 4 XP eprom images with a hex editor. It is important that the start of the binary data for a "next" image starts at the right adress.
The XP100 image starts at adress 00000hex
The XP200 image starts at adress 08000hex
The XP300 image starts at adress 10000hex
The XP400 image starts at adress 18000hex
After this, by selecting binary 00, 01, 10 or 11 on the A15 and A16 lines one selects which XP binary is loaded upon reset. And you'll need to make a converter board that ports the A0 upto A14 adress lines, the control bus and the databus for a 27C010 to a 27C256 size that connects to the XP board. Which I prefer far above the piggybacking.
Thanks for the info Dirk.
Insofar as arranging the firmware is concerned, there is already an app available on the net for arranging this, specifically aimed at the 27C1001. You simply plug in the bin files you wish to combine, and the app outputs a bin file, properly spaced, and in the order you wish them to be in. No messing with hex editing.
At the moment, I don't believe a converter board will be necessary. A proper switching scheme should accomplish the job. Tuners have been using the switch scheme for a long time now.
I'll report my findings when I'm done testing.
BTW, thanks for enlightening us on the "power on reboot scheme". Very kind of you. :icon_wink:
Cheers,
Dino
I have just successfully modded an XP400 to XP300.
Just had to add 1 RAM (Vishay) , 3 are already there, also the 4th socket is in place.
And change the rom to an xp300-eprom.
--> completly solder free.
As the XP400 was 110€ (>$130) I am not quite sure if the easier mod justifies the higher price(compared to xp100,200), especially if you go for the XP-all
Anyway - IT'S WORTH IT!!
Quote from: rocket on October 16, 2012, 06:31:21 PM
As the XP400 was 110€ (>$130) I am not quite sure if the easier mod justifies the higher price(compared to xp100,200), especially if you go for the XP-all
A lot better than the $350-400 that the 300s go for on fleabay :icon_eek:
Share the knowledge, share the joy.
Good job rocket! :icon_wink:
I just got my 10+ years abandoned, broken, and disassembled xp100 working again tonight. I can't wait to get started!
Just got my XP100 mod to XP300! Thanks to digi2t for the firmare file. Will try other versions for sure.
The mod went pretty easy - I bought RAM, Flash IC's and HC574 on Ebay. Got the flash flashed by my friend who has an old ultraviolet stuff of IC's.
Also my XP100 was a bit broken - I've traced the audiopath to U5, half of it was fried so I've got it replaced too.
XP-300 is just sick! So many wierd sounds! Gotta flash XP-200 and XP-400 firmwares too!
Another satisfied customer! ;D ;D :D
I love it!
Still waiting on my perfboard for the 27C1001 mod. Got everything else though. Switch, relay, IC and what not. Once I get the perf, I can make my adapter, and start getting down to business.
Stay tuned. Hopefully we can take this puppy to the next level.
Hey Guys,
Long time lurker, but first time posting...
I think the space station is the ultimate guitar effect. Anyone consider making a clone of it?
Quote from: lucidgenius on October 29, 2012, 02:21:25 PM
Hey Guys,
Long time lurker, but first time posting...
I think the space station is the ultimate guitar effect. Anyone consider making a clone of it?
Have you read this thread at all? :icon_eek:
Essentially, that is what we are doing. Although not in the conventional sense ;D
Quote from: lucidgenius on October 29, 2012, 02:21:25 PM
Hey Guys,
Long time lurker, but first time posting...
I think the space station is the ultimate guitar effect. Anyone consider making a clone of it?
Financially, it`s not viable to clone it from scratch. In the end it`s cheaper to scour the net for a cheap 100, 200, or 400, and mod that. Besides, why have just the 300, when you can have an
XP-ALL!!!
yes... the
XP-ALL!!!
It Whammates. It Modulates. It Space-Stationates. It Reverberates. It does it
ALL!!!
It`s the
XP-ALL!!!
Oh... did I mention that it does it all?
OK, enough of me being a sh*t for one day.
:icon_mrgreen:
:icon_redface: Yes, I've read the whole thread. I get that it's cheaper to mod and doesn't make sense to build from scratch.
Just curious if anyone was planning on recreating or cloning the space station. Doesn't seem that Digitech is going to anytime soon.
Quote from: lucidgenius on October 29, 2012, 04:55:06 PM
:icon_redface: Yes, I've read the whole thread. I get that it's cheaper to mod and doesn't make sense to build from scratch.
Just curious if anyone was planning on recreating or cloning the space station. Doesn't seem that Digitech is going to anytime soon.
They did use a bit of the Space Station in the EX-7, but just the tamer stuff (synth swell, I think). As for the reverse delay stuff, there are other pedals out there that do it as well, but I don`t know if you can control the speed of it like the SS. Maybe the Time Factor with a MIDI pedal. Everything else the SS can do was scattered into other units (2101, GNX, etc.).
Now, will they build it again? Who the hell knows. Some effects seem to suffer from «flavor-of-the-monthitis». This, along with the 200, and 400 was one of them. Tom Morello (amoung many others) kind of garanteed the continuation of the Whammy, in all it`s incarnations. After all, why have some pedal that isn`t being used by some sooper-booper rock star on your pedal board, right?
Clone the SS? I`ll echo my brother Govmnt_Lacky; that`s what we did. We just didn`t have to reinvent the entire wheel, just retread the sucker. :icon_mrgreen:
As the Aussies say, "Work smarter, not harder".
Sounds way cooler with an Aussie accent. :icon_lol:
Thanks guys.
just a question,
when i connect my gutiar to the xp100, even if it is in bypass mode, it cuts the bass frequencies or modificin my guitar tone.
Has anyone noticed this?
Quote from: fendrix_81 on November 02, 2012, 04:54:33 PM
just a question,
when i connect my gutiar to the xp100, even if it is in bypass mode, it cuts the bass frequencies or modificin my guitar tone.
Has anyone noticed this?
The XP series is not true bypass. It may, or may not, affect your tone, depending on your setup. If you find that it is sucking your tone too much, then I recommend that you run it in a loop.
Lol did you guys check out the XP pedals with all rom versions for ~$400? That's hilarious... Two of them are in there right now.
Quote from: tuckster on November 15, 2012, 04:37:21 PM
Lol did you guys check out the XP pedals with all rom versions for ~$400? That's hilarious... Two of them are in there right now.
Better to burn, than get burned. :D
i need help,
a friend of mine has a digitech xp 100 with which he wants to change into a xp 100 all.
When I opened it, I saw that it is a model that has already installed the SMD 74hc574d and uses an eprom with the program of the XP100.
and i conclude that the memory of the program lies in the eprom and not in any IC of pcb.
Now, if we make the change, we need to install the eprom 3 XP200 300 and 400, but the memory of the XP100 resides in some integrated of pcb or only on eprom that I found inside?
by the way, to next the smd 74hc574d ther is an IC that is not digitech, but is Taiwan
thx friends.
Quote from: fendrix_81 on November 18, 2012, 04:48:56 AM
i need help,
a friend of mine has a digitech xp 100 with which he wants to change into a xp 100 all.
When I opened it, I saw that it is a model that has already installed the SMD 74hc574d and uses an eprom with the program of the XP100.
and i conclude that the memory of the program lies in the eprom and not in any IC of pcb.
Now, if we make the change, we need to install the eprom 3 XP200 300 and 400, but the memory of the XP100 resides in some integrated of pcb or only on eprom that I found inside?
by the way, to next the smd 74hc574d ther is an IC that is not digitech, but is Taiwan
thx friends.
OK, your friend has an earlier model, using the 27C256 to carry the XP-100 program. In this case, for an XP-ALL conversion, you'll need to stack 4 EPROM's instead of 3. The fourth EPROM carries the 100 code. You can stack 4 EPROM's, but without the sockets. You can socket the bottom EPROM, but you will have to solder all the EPROM's together. The wiring will be slightly different as well, since you will not be calling for any "internal" (onboard) memory, all memory will be considered "external" (EPROM). You can use the XP-ALL build document, but you'll have to modify the wiring section to include the fourth EPROM.
I've presently started to assemble an XP-ALL+ conversion adapter board. This will adapt a 32 pin 27C1001 EPROM to the 28 pin EPROM space found on the XP board. The 27C1001 chip has a memory large enough to hold all four programs, in four banks. I advise you to wait before attempting to convert your friend's XP. Let me make and test my adapter first. If it works as I hope, it will make the conversion easier, only requiring 1 EPROM. I should have conclusive results by the end of next week.
Cheers,
Dino
@Dino
Don't forget about us PCB etchers when you perfect your conversion board :icon_mrgreen:
Love all the work that has been done here.
I was fortunate enough to get a guy to do a conversion of an XP-100 to his version of the "all" for an absolute song, meaning my prized XP-300 can sit in storage safe and sound.
Awesome that you dudes have figured out how to do the patch switching without power-cycling, the jetpacks xp1000 misses that (luckily mine has it ;) )
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 18, 2012, 07:50:38 PM
@Dino
Don't forget about us PCB etchers when you perfect your conversion board :icon_mrgreen:
I'm using special double sided perf board, that uses thru-hole pads instead of simple pads.. Since I'm using header pins on one side, and a 32 pin socket on the other, the thru hole pads allow me the luxury of joining pads by soldering between them on whichever side is more convienent.
I'm no expert on etching, but without thru hole pads, I'm not sure how a single, or even double, sided etch would work. I'll leave that to the etching brainiacs.
I'm drawing the layout in DIYLC right now, and I've taken photos of the process as well. I'll post the works when I've validated it all.
EDIT:
Here are some shots of what I have so far for the 27C1001 adapter board. The header pins on the underside of the board can ultimately plug into the exiisting 27C256 socket, or may be directly soldered into the XP main board. If the latter approach is chosen, then the relay should be socketed, to allow for easy removal if ever it fails. Otherwise, it's removal would require desoldering the adapter board from the main board.
Adapter board without XP-100 stereo relay;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/27C1001ADAPTER-1.jpg)
With the XP-100 mode stereo relay;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/27C1001ADAPTERW_RELAY.jpg)
and with the components moved out of the way, for a better view of the pad joints and jumpers;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/27C1001ADAPTER_JUMPVIEW.jpg)
Here's a mock-up view of the adapter (board will be trimmed to size after the work is done);
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3121.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3123.jpg)
The switch that I'm planning on using is the ALPS SRRN243, 6P4T;
(http://i.ebayimg.com/20/!BdE-zwgBWk~$(KGrHqYH-CQEq)un6mUlBK3ROg1vyg~~_3.JPG)
This switch not only provides enough contacts for program switching and power on reseting, but will also operate my relay to regain the stereo function in XP-100 mode, as well as adding four 3mm LED's for mode indication (ultra-bonus!!). The best part is that it's non-shorting (break before make), which will work with the reset function, and is small enough to fit easily into the restricted space of the XP housing. As a matter of fact, it's smaller than the Alpha rotary switch that we spec in the XP-ALL build. A real work of art.
Dino, you're a damn genius!
I'm amazed by all of the great work you guys have done on this.
You guys = Dino 8)
Geez guys, let me tell you... I'm really not that smart, but I can put 2 and 2 together on occasion. I'm really pushing the envelope on this one, including what little intelligence I have in this area. I'm just really praying hard that it will work. In the meantime, got the adapter done;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3133.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3134.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3136.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3137.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3138.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3139.jpg)
Although I always respected/admired Rick Holt's (frequencycentral) perf board soldering, that respect has reached a whole new level after having tried it myself. Beading solder is no easy feat when you've never done it before. I consider myself lucky that I managed to pull it off. Adapter passed all continuity and short checks with flying colors.
As shown above, I mounted it into the 28 pin socket already on the board, just so I could see how high it sits. It basically the same height as stcking 3 EPROMS (my EPROM's not plugged in all the way, I know, I know). If I solder it direct to the main board, it'll be 2 EPROM's high. Not bad considering that all four programs are on one chip.
Now I'm off to figure out the program switching configuration. OH JOY!!!! MORE F*&KING BINARY!!!!
My brain hurts....
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DigiTech-XP-1000-EFFECTS-XP400-XP300-XP200-XP100-SPACE-STATION-VERY-RARE-ITEM-/400336352882?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item5d35e7f672 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DigiTech-XP-1000-EFFECTS-XP400-XP300-XP200-XP100-SPACE-STATION-VERY-RARE-ITEM-/400336352882?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item5d35e7f672)
Why is it, there's never a "bust a gut, rolling on the floor, tears gushing from the eyes, knee slappin'" smiley, when you need one.
:icon_rolleyes:
Bargain basement pricing!! ::)
Thinking about putting my original XP-ALL on the bay to raise funds for Xmas. Dont think I will go as high as that joker though :icon_wink:
Of course... if the bidding goes that high then............... I wont turn it down!! ;D
Here's a vero adapter as well. Slightly bigger board, but still enough room under the hood to fit. Should be much easier to solder together as well.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/27C1001ADAPTERW_RELAY_VERO.jpg)
I have no use for any of this stuff, but just wanted to say that's some great work, very nicely thought out.
Quote from: slacker on November 20, 2012, 01:46:16 PM
I have no use for any of this stuff, but just wanted to say that's some great work, very nicely thought out.
Well, thanks for the compliment Ian. I`m really hoping that it works though. As far as I know, using the 27C1001, and the program switching scheme is all theoretical. I haven`t come across anything to validate it, so I`m really out on a limb here. A very thin limb at that. I lifted the idea from here;
http://www.iroczone.com/2009/10/understanding-how-the-code-switching-eprom-circuit-works/ (http://www.iroczone.com/2009/10/understanding-how-the-code-switching-eprom-circuit-works/)
Yes... a hot rod site. Had to read it a kazillion times before it made a bit of sense to me. I should have stayed awake during those computer labs back in high school, but nooooo, I would never use this shit. Right?
Don`t ask how I came upon it. Just Google surfing.
IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT BLOODY WELL WORKS. :icon_eek: :icon_lol: :icon_eek: :icon_lol:
All four progs on one chip, and by switching addresses via the rotary, I can boot to the XP mode I want. FREAKIN' AMAZING!!!
For those of you playing along at home, here is the switching chart. 0 = LOW (go to GND.), and 1 = HIGH (disconnect from GND.)
A14 A15 A16
0 0 0 = XP100
0 0 1 = XP200
1 1 0 = XP300
1 1 1 = XP400
This is just WAY too cool! :icon_cool:
I'll draw up a proper wiring diagram soon, for all the switch poles. The only thing left to test now is the relay to restore stereo in XP100 mode.
Back to the bench!! :icon_mrgreen:
DINO!!!!!
You da' MAN!!!
Im sure the relay will work too. The theory is sound and I am sure the implementation is spot on ;)
Relay tested, works, and I got an ultra bonus. It gives me both sides wet, rather than the original left wet, right dry. I'm not really sure why just yet, but man!!, I will take that! I've updated the drawings, because I forgot to mark in the Vss wire to the chip. I've also included the switch wiring.
Both boards;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/27C1001ADAPTERW_RELAY.jpg)
Clear jumper view of perf board (vero is pretty clear);
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/27C1001ADAPTER_JUMPVIEW.jpg)
and the switching layout;
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/6P4Trotaryswitchdiagram.jpg)
I'm really stoked about the fact that the relay is giving me both sides wet. I really wasn't expecting that. He shoot's... HE SCORES!!!!!
DINO.... man.... you are makin' me look bad! :icon_cool: :P
I am now wondering since you are essentially bypassing that J113 transistor with the relay, whether or not you would still get a wet output with it bypassed in the 200, 300, and 400 modes ???
Essentially, is that transistor necessary? (Q5)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 21, 2012, 10:35:02 AM
DINO.... man.... you are makin' me look bad! :icon_cool: :P
I am now wondering since you are essentially bypassing that J113 transistor with the relay, whether or not you would still get a wet output with it bypassed in the 200, 300, and 400 modes ???
Essentially, is that transistor necessary? (Q5)
No, you won't. You need that fet there to bring the right side info up in 200, 300, and 300 modes. Since there is no right side info coming from the board in 100 mode, what we're doing here is jumping the fet, and bringing back the dry signal. When we go into the other modes, the relay opens the contact, as if we pull the jumper out, so we get the wet signal on the right side as per normal. I err'd before claiming that I had both sides wet, I guess my hearing was feeling in a "glass half full" kind of mood. We are now in stock trim in 100 mode.
I guess if I really wanted to, I could use the relay to bring the left wet signal to the right side as well, giving me full wet all around, but I'll leave it for now. I want to explore the dynamics of it as is first.
I did have a bit of a scare for a moment there, when the 200 mode wouldn't boot up. I realized after a while that I had mixed up the A15 and A16 wires on the switch. I even thought the chip was to blame, but no, simple faux pas on my part. Everything fits and works A1+. I'm really happy with the switch. Handles everything, and is nice and compact.
So, without further ado, I present the XP-ALL+.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3146.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3147.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3148.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3145.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3142.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3141.jpg)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/DSCF3150.jpg)
The mountain has come to Mohammed.... :icon_cool:
I'm incredibly impressed with your guys' work. One of these days I'll try implementing this in my XP-100! Very awesome.
I was wondering if anybody had some insight on adding an additional control element to the XP board. By default the pedal is attached to an LED internally that moves further/towards a photoresistor to produce varying resistances.
I thought it would be cool idea to add a digital potentiometer to this circuit which could be controlled via MIDI or CV input, sort of like the Molten Voltage "Molten Midi" controller for the latest MIDI-enabled Whammy pedals. (video demo below) Basically, I'm a cheapo and want to "modernize" my pedal. Any thoughts on implementing this? I don't want to desolder anything or move anything because it may become uncalibrated if I do so, and I really don't want to screw it up!
Technically, I think it would be possible to control the whole thing via MIDI. Even the mode changes. You could build a MIDI controller for it, into a Crybaby shell, with all the pot and switching functions coming from the wah. The advantage to that would be saving floor space. If you're a "rack junkie", like myself, stick the unit in the rack, and control it with a smaller footprint.
I'm sure that there are a mess of other opportunities that MIDI'fing it could offer, but I can't think of any right now. I just got up, and I haven't had my first cup 'o java yet. :icon_eek:
:icon_lol:
My idea was to hook up a MIDI keyboard to a digital pot so that instead of controlling the whammy pitch with the foot pedal, control it with a MIDI device. For example, play a guitar note, maybe freeze it with a freeze pedal, kick on the whammy octave up mode, then go crazy on keyboard. Or be a real bum and just program a bunch of arpeggios. The possibilities are endless, I wonder how this kind of control would work for the other XP models.
The only problem I can foresee is the microcontroller not playing nice with a variable resistor other than the stock LED/photoresistor configuration. I tried to deceive the pedal during calibration by not moving the pedal fully back and forwards but it just gave me an "Er" on the LED display. So maybe it has a set of "accepted" resistances that it compares against to see if the calibration was precise enough.
I think I've been letting my mind run too far with this pedal, I hope I can actually make something cool out of it!
TECHNICAL UPDATE!!!!
If you're contemplating the output volume mod, please DO NOT use an A100K dual gang pot specified in the build document. Use an A1M dual gang instead.
I found that with the 100K, the closer you get to ground (min. volume), the more you'll hear a whining noise bleed into the audio. This whining might be from the power supply end of things, or maybe from the audio sides of the chips themselves, I don't know.
Anyhow, a 1M pot(s) provides enough resistance to prevent this noise from bleeding into the audio. The volume control is also better with the 1M, than with a 100K.
Build document will be updated shortly.
with a PIC it would be simpler, but this should work too.
just an idea... to control the program change with a push button, and monitoring with a RGB LED.
remarks and corrections are welcomed!
(http://kepfeltoltes.hu/121225/CMOS_switching_sys_for_XP-ALLplus_KK_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg)
As someone who has never worked with most of the components required to build this mod, I'm having some problems pinpointing the sockets, headers, rotary switches and knobs that I need. As far as what dimensions I should be looking for, I'm clueless. Digikey has endless options for narrowing down a search, but I don't know which options I should be fiddling with. (that's another issue, where else besides Digikey should I look?)
Any help would be really appreciated, whether it's exact dimensions or just links to exact products. Sorry for my lack of experience, this has been the biggest obstacle so far for me to carry out this mod!
Quote from: LocalToast on December 25, 2012, 09:26:21 PM
As someone who has never worked with most of the components required to build this mod, I'm having some problems pinpointing the sockets, headers, rotary switches and knobs that I need. As far as what dimensions I should be looking for, I'm clueless. Digikey has endless options for narrowing down a search, but I don't know which options I should be fiddling with. (that's another issue, where else besides Digikey should I look?)
Any help would be really appreciated, whether it's exact dimensions or just links to exact products. Sorry for my lack of experience, this has been the biggest obstacle so far for me to carry out this mod!
This depends on which mod(s) you want to do and which unit you are modding.
Do you want to make an XP ALL? An XP ALL+? Do you want to just mod for a space station? Are you starting with an XP100?
Let us know what you are starting with and what you want to end up with and we can go from there ;)
EDIT: You mention an XP100 in a previous post. I will assume you are wanting to mod that. Just fill in the rest of the blanks if you would please ;D
Like G_L mentioned, we would need to know exactly what you want to do. As for the parts, I rarely order from Digikey. They're a great place to shop, but I generally only get hard to find, or specialized stuff there.
Everything used in the mods is available on Ebay, generally at better prices than Digikey. Often times the shipping is free. Yes, you might have to wait a bit longer, but I prefer cash in pocket, rather than part right now.
My intention is to do the XP-ALL+ mod, I like a challenge! ;D Also I actually already ordered everything so I'm waiting for a few things to come in the mail still.
I ordered the A1M dual-gang pot from Small Bear Electronics but neither of the knobs I bought (1 for the 6P4T, 1 for the A1M) fit the shaft. I emailed Small Bear for knob dimensions for the A1M.
I ordered the exact same 6P4T rotary switch in the tutorial. Hasn't arrived yet so one of my knobs may work for it, but could you show me a knob that would work for it?
I also just ordered the 32-pin and 3x 18-pin sockets from All Electronics... they were labeled "IC socket" so I will assume for now they will work, but like I said, I didn't know the pin spacing for the RAM, EPROM chips so it was kind of a shot in the dark. I assume it's a standard size, though. Still waiting for those chips to arrive from eBay.
Does the perf board need to have pads on both sides or just one? I was a little confused from the tutorial.
Thanks in advance!
QuoteI ordered the A1M dual-gang pot from Small Bear Electronics but neither of the knobs I bought (1 for the 6P4T, 1 for the A1M) fit the shaft. I emailed Small Bear for knob dimensions for the A1M.
The switch shaft is 1/4" splined. I used the pot from Tayda, which is also splined. In both cases, I used these knobs;
(http://www.taydaelectronics.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/220x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/A/-/A-5155_4.jpg)
You'll just have to shorten the length of the switch shaft to get the knob to sit all the way down. If you pot shaft is not splined (smooth), then a knob with set screw will be required.
QuoteI also just ordered the 32-pin and 3x 18-pin sockets from All Electronics... they were labeled "IC socket" so I will assume for now they will work, but like I said, I didn't know the pin spacing for the RAM, EPROM chips so it was kind of a shot in the dark. I assume it's a standard size, though. Still waiting for those chips to arrive from eBay.
EPROM sockets; http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/SK044APH01/view.html (http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/SK044APH01/view.html)
SRAM sockets; http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/SK018PF02/18+Pin+IC+Socket+DIP+Open.html (http://www.westfloridacomponents.com/SK018PF02/18+Pin+IC+Socket+DIP+Open.html)
Pitch and pin spacings are listed in both cases.
QuoteDoes the perf board need to have pads on both sides or just one? I was a little confused from the tutorial.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PCB-board-double-sided-prototyping-PCB-board-4-SMD-part-/220330242967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item334cb4b397 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PCB-board-double-sided-prototyping-PCB-board-4-SMD-part-/220330242967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item334cb4b397)
Thru holes, with pads on both sides. If in doubt, use vero.
I'm getting geared up to do the full monty. I bought a xp100 on ebay, and it arrived to me with the w100k pot on it broken(hopefully that is the only problem).
I'm having a hard time trying to find that part anywhere online. Does anyone know where I might be able to find one?
It looks like a 12mm pot with a D shaft, but I'm not sure how long the shaft is.
@pk1802
I have some replacement pots. PM me and we will work something out.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Hey guys,
I have almost everything to do this mod, except the chip. How can I get the preset data on the chip? Can someone here do this for me for a fee? I would be wanting to do the XP-ALL. :icon_cool:
Quote from: pedalmaker on April 03, 2013, 07:17:25 AM
Hey guys,
I have almost everything to do this mod, except the chip. How can I get the preset data on the chip? Can someone here do this for me for a fee? I would be wanting to do the XP-ALL. :icon_cool:
If you want an XP ALL then you are going to need (3 to 4) 27C256 chips. You will need to have them erased and then each one loaded with the appropriate program. What pedal are you planning to mod?
Unless you want to use the 27C1001 chip which can have all of the programs on 1 chip.
I recommend you try contacting Dino (digi2t) and see if he can hook you up. I would but, I only have 1 set of chips left for a mod I need to do :-\
I don't supply chips. I can however provide the required specs/suppliers info, and you can buy the chips yourself. You may then send them to me for erasing and programming. I test all chips in my unit before shipping. I only charge for the return postage, which is generally $5 U.S. for North American destinations. $9 for the rest of the world.
This is my modis operandi insofar a programming 27C256, or 27C1001, for others is concerned.
PM me for more info.
Does any one know if the 4464 DRAM would work on this project? Its listed on this schematic http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Vibrato%20and%20Pitch%20Shift/Digitech%20XP100.pdf
The thing gas I was looking for 41464 all over the place but could not finde them.
Quote from: SISKO on May 17, 2013, 10:13:46 AM
Does any one know if the 4464 DRAM would work on this project? Its listed on this schematic http://experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/Schematics/Vibrato%20and%20Pitch%20Shift/Digitech%20XP100.pdf
The thing gas I was looking for 41464 all over the place but could not finde them.
I found lots on eBay. That's where I got mine from,
but avoid seller G&C (Good and Cheap). I bought from there, and they turned out to be duds. Sellers that I have bought good chips from eBay are;
ACP Surplus (U.S. supplier)
U-Barn (Hong-Kong)
I'm sure G_L can chirp in here as well. He's done a few conversions.
Ill buy them from a local store. Its a "serious" one but before I buy them, I need to know if the 4464 would be replacement for the 41464 DRAM that everyone seems to use around here.
Quote from: SISKO on May 17, 2013, 08:52:39 PM
I need to know if the 4464 would be replacement for the 41464 DRAM that everyone seems to use around here.
Could you provide the complete part number?
I have only found one good replacement for the UPD41464C-10 RAM that comes in the XPs and they are the same prices as the original parts.
If you are referring to the part number called out in the Digitech schematic (4464), I believe that was just a number for in-house referencing. If you want the stock part number, it is UPD41464C-10.
The complete part number is TMS4464-10
This are the only "datasheets" I could find:
(http://www.ucontrol.com.ar/forosmf/explicaciones-y-consultas-tecnicas/hoja-de-datos-del-chip-tms-4464-10nl-de-texas-(memoria)/?action=dlattach;attach=7912)
More here:
http://www.ucontrol.com.ar/forosmf/explicaciones-y-consultas-tecnicas/hoja-de-datos-del-chip-tms-4464-10nl-de-texas-(memoria)/?action=dlattach;attach=7914
And here:
http://www.ucontrol.com.ar/forosmf/explicaciones-y-consultas-tecnicas/hoja-de-datos-del-chip-tms-4464-10nl-de-texas-(memoria)/?action=dlattach;attach=7916
and:
http://www.ucontrol.com.ar/forosmf/explicaciones-y-consultas-tecnicas/hoja-de-datos-del-chip-tms-4464-10nl-de-texas-(memoria)/?action=dlattach;attach=7918
Its seems to be pin to pin compatible with the D41464 memory.
The BOM on the XP100 schematic calls for (Quan Reference Part SYMAN Description)
1 U19 4464-100 72-3149-10 4464, 64K X 4 Dynamic RAM -100ns LH2464
Should I try?
I've looked at the datasheets, read some Commodore (remember those?) memory upgrade posts, and picked out the following quotes;
QuoteI'm not using 4164's I'm using M41464 produced by OKI
compatible chips are
OKI M41464 Samsung KM41464AP Texas Instruments TMS 4464 Toshiba TMM41464AP NEC 41464C
QuoteEarly C64 computers have eight 4164 TTL RAM chips installed.
Some interim brown case and all later OEM C64C (white case)
computers have only two 4464 RAM ICs (41464 is the same IC) as
those chips have four times the memory "density" of the 4164.
But then, I fell on to an Atari forum, where lo and behold, I found this link; http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?search_type=jamecoall&catalogId=10001&freeText=41574&langId=-1&productId=41574&storeId=10001&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDrillDownView (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?search_type=jamecoall&catalogId=10001&freeText=41574&langId=-1&productId=41574&storeId=10001&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDrillDownView)
With this quote;
QuoteBill Garber over at comp.sys.atari.8bit pointed me to:
http://www.jameco.co..._10001_41574_-1
I ordered two of them and they worked just fine.
That blew my mind. Jamesco. $1.69 each. :icon_eek: Think I'm gonna stock up!
So, yeah, try the 4464. According to other forums, it should work fine. Just watch your speed, -10 (100nS) or -12 (120nS) at most should be fine. I found that anything slow might cause hanging at boot up.
Please let us know how they work out, so I may update the build document.
Will do! It may take a while, though. Ill keep you informed. Thanks for the research!
I have used the TMS4464 chips and they work. Those are the only replacements I have been able to find.
Hi all,
I'm currently trying to make an XP-ALL mod on a XP200.
I found that many components are already there (referring to the guide), like the 74HC574, J113s and others.
I made the adapter for the 27c1001 with breadboard. Eprom programmed succesfully with programmer, using XP-ALL code found on the web.
I'm trying to let it boot fixed on a pedal type (say 200 or 300) just to try it as I'm still waiting for the rotative switch to arrive.
So I just connect A14, A15 and A16 properly to Vss (or disconnected) to choose the right boot option. BUT I have problems: the pedal doesn't starts at all. The screen remains unlit or gets random bars lit.
The other crazy thing is that, when I'm back with the original Eprom, if I just add the other 3 RAM ICs, the unit gets the same strange behaviour. But If I swap the original D41464C-10 chip with one of the news the pedal works. So the new RAMs should be just fine...
Anyone has any advice on my issue? ???
Thanks in advance ::)
Quote from: qwerty8787 on May 26, 2013, 12:51:55 PM
The other crazy thing is that, when I'm back with the original Eprom, if I just add the other 3 RAM ICs, the unit gets the same strange behaviour. But If I swap the original D41464C-10 chip with one of the news the pedal works. So the new RAMs should be just fine...
I have yet to do the mod with the 27C1001 chip but...
According to what you are saying above, you are putting the pedal back to "stock" mode. This would be with the XP200 EPROM in the U9 spot and the RAM chip in the U19 spot. In order to explain better, it helps to understand the following:
XP100 and XP200 ONLY use RAM in U19. The other RAM slots are unused.
XP300 uses RAM in ALL of the slots (U19, U18, U17, and U16)
XP400 uses RAM in U19, U18, and U17. (U16 is NOT used)
If you put the pedal back to original configuration (XP200), then the ONLY RAM chip that "should be" used is U19. I would suggest that you remove ALL of the RAM chips except for U19 and try the pedal. If the pedal is stock, then it should work. If it does not, then you have another issue.
It sounds to me like your NEW RAM chips might be bad. Try what I suggest above with the original RAM chip and get the pedal working. Then, swap the good RAM with a new RAM and see if it still works. Do this with all of the new RAM chips to verify them. If it is good with all of them, then your problem is somewhere in your mod work.
QuoteIt sounds to me like your NEW RAM chips might be bad. Try what I suggest above with the original RAM chip and get the pedal working. Then, swap the good RAM with a new RAM and see if it still works. Do this with all of the new RAM chips to verify them. If it is good with all of them, then your problem is somewhere in your mod work.
I concur with G_L on this point. You may have bad RAM. I ran into this problem with RAM that I purchased from eBay seller G&C (Good and Cheap). I bought 10 chips, and they were all crap. I tested them using the same process, inserting them into a working unit.
Thanks for the reply.
Maybe I didn't explained myself in a good way ::)
If I take the stock eprom (XP200) with only the original RAM, It works.
If I take out the original RAM and I put in a new RAM instead of the original, it works too!
That's why I am assuming that RAMs are just fine.
I get the problem only when I put more than 1 RAM in those sockets. As in the complete mod there's nothing switching out RAMs between modes, I assume that putting 4 RAMs when it is just fixed in XP200 shouldn't be a problem. Or am I wrong?
I can't figure out what's the problem. By now I'm still waiting for the MC34064P, but it shouldn't be necessary for this "fixed mode" pedal...right?
I will also try to program a 27C256 with another code, say XP300, and see if it works. About this, anyone knows if an EPROM with 150ns access time is still good for this application?
Thanks again ;)
The MC34064P is critical to the boot up process in the XP-ALL's. It sends an under volt signal to both U10 and U15.
In the original series, the MC34064P was only found in the XP-400, but not in the other three. I think in the 100 the boot up is handled internally from a submask. I'm not quite sure why it isn't used in the 200 or 300, but I don't think that the XP-ALL (+ or otherwise) will boot properly without it.
Having the extra RAM in there shouldn't be a problem, since they are there anyway when running the XP-ALL. Maybe check for bad solder joints where the RAM sockets are soldered to the board?
One thing other that might be happening, is code corruption from your burn. This has happened to me one time. Burned the chip, and it wouldn't boot up. I erased the chip again, burned it again, and it worked fine.
Quote from: digi2t on May 27, 2013, 10:00:34 PM
Having the extra RAM in there shouldn't be a problem, since they are there anyway when running the XP-ALL. Maybe check for bad solder joints where the RAM sockets are soldered to the board?
One thing other that might be happening, is code corruption from your burn. This has happened to me one time. Burned the chip, and it wouldn't boot up. I erased the chip again, burned it again, and it worked fine.
To expound on what digi2t said....
I do not think that your EPROM chip is bad since it works in the stock configuration. I believe you have an issue with another part of your mod work. As suggested above, it may be with the soldering of the additional RAM sockets. You might have to bite the bullet and meter out the data lines between RAMs and the processor and EPROM chips :-\
EDIT: BTW... did you install the additional tantalum capacitors with the RAM sockets? C61, C64, and C65?
I'm back home and I made some experiments:
I burned on a 27C256-15 the XP300 code. Burning went fine (double checked checksum when burned), and if I put it instead of XP200's eprom, I get the right number of programs (40).
But the sound works only in bypass, because there's only 1 RAM IC. If I throw in the other IC, same old story. It doesn't boots.
I checked the connection on every pin of the new RAM sockets. everything's fine. Also dc voltage appears correctly on the right pins.
Tried to look at some other pins with the oscilloscope, but the only thing I get is digital crap (oh..really? :icon_biggrin:)
Diggin with the oscilloscope I found that on Vdd I have a strong ripple. about 400mVac (RMS) measured with the multimeter. This ripple is also visible on the "digital crap", and I don't think it is a good thing.... Anyone ever tried to measure ripple on DC rails?
Tantalum caps installed. C61, C65, C60. C64 was already there.
I also installed also the MC34064P that arrived this week, and with this I get pedal stuck at boot, with a double zero on the screen.
It's getting really frustrating....
@qwerty
This is my recommendation....
- Install the ORIGINAL xp200 EPROM chip into U9
- Install the ORIGINAL D41464-10 RAM chip into U19 (Leave all other RAM chips out)
Power up the pedal and see if it works. If it does not... try a new EPROM in U9 and retest. If it still does not work.... put original EPROM back into U9 and try different RAM in U19. If it still does not work, then there MUST be something wrong with your mod work.
If the pedal DOES work when you do the above, then you may have a BAD set of RAM chips that are causing issues when you install them. Or, your newly burned EPROM chip(s) are bad or not burned correctly.
The XP300 will ONLY work properly if ALL 4 RAM chips are installed and working. Refer to my previous post about this.
Perhaps you could post a picture of your pedal's PCB and we might be able to spot something ;D
original XP200 EPROM + original RAM ----> OK
original XP200 EPROM + new RAM --------> OK
original XP200 EPROM + original RAM + new RAMs in other sockets ----> doesn't boot (random segments on screen)
burned XP300 EPROM + original RAM ----> Boot ok BUT sound only in bypass mode. when not bypass I get different distorted sound depending on program selected (That's right, not enough RAM...)
burned XP300 EPROM + 1 new RAM ----> same as before
burned XP300 EPROM + original RAM + new RAMs in other sockets ----> doesn't boot (random screen)
I can see about 400mVrms of ripple on digital +5V rail. then:
whatever combination + MC34064P -------> Pedals restarts over and over again
whatever combination + MC34064P + 10000uF cap on digital +5V rail ------> less ripple on rail (about 100mVrms), pedal restarts over and over but from one boot to another there's more time.
I can manage to make some photos soon
found the problem: PSU. >:( >:( >:(
That crappy power adaptor (that came with the pedal, bought used) had a loose connector, that caused some voltage loss or other strange artifacts.
Tried to power the whole thing with another trusty PSU: everything's just fine ::)
with XP300 eprom (and all 4 RAM in) is just perfect!
Now I have to troubleshoot my XP-ALL+ board, but I feel much better now ;D
Thanks Govmnt_Lacky and digi2t for helping me!
No problem man. Glad you figured it out. I would have never guessed the PS. Way to stick with it. :icon_cool:
Let us know how your conversion goes, and if the build doc needs to be edited.
Cheers,
Dino
Just to continue - I had success using 27C512 instead of 27C256. Just wrote the bin starting from 8000 in programmer's utility. One memory chip worked fine.
But stacking two 27c512 with such programming approach lead to chip's death. I think only 27c256 could be stacked one on top of another.
@DJ
I think the 512 chip is a good way to go if you ONLY want to have a 2 program pedal (i.e. XP100/300, XP200/300, etc)
If you want all 4, then stacking the 256 chips -OR- using the 27C1001 is the way to go ;)
BTW.... Just to share a bit of good info, I recently picked up a programmer off eBay that works GREAT. It is the TL866CS and it works just fine on the 27C256 chips and many more. Plus, it is only about $30-40 from China ;D
Hi again everyone,
anyone experiencing power issues with the XP-ALL+ mod?
Recently modded an XP100 and seems like the regulators are getting pretty hot. After some minutes on, it will occasionally gets crazy in the screen and stops responding to footswitches.
letting it off to cool down for a while will let the unit come back again, but it will eventually fail again.
Any hints?
Quote from: qwerty8787 on October 18, 2013, 03:16:41 PM
Hi again everyone,
anyone experiencing power issues with the XP-ALL+ mod?
Recently modded an XP100 and seems like the regulators are getting pretty hot. After some minutes on, it will occasionally gets crazy in the screen and stops responding to footswitches.
letting it off to cool down for a while will let the unit come back again, but it will eventually fail again.
Any hints?
Can you possibly post a picture of the modded board? I think I may know what your problem is 8)
I'm without camera right now, I will try soon.
What are you thinkin about?
Quote from: qwerty8787 on October 18, 2013, 03:55:30 PM
What are you thinkin about?
Where you picked up your Ground to switch in and out of the XP100 program that is located within the CPU mask.
I made the XP-ALL+, the one with 27c1001. No switch, only 4-pos rotary switch. And GND for it is taken from the Vss pin of the 27c1001.
measuring temperature on U11 heatsink: 72 °C :o
Pictures would help a lot. ;)
What's the temperature on your regulators?
Anyway, no matter what's the cause of this high temperature, I just solved it moving the regulators on the chassis via cables, attached with screws (with thermal grease between chassis and regulators). Now temperature hardly goes over 35 °C :icon_biggrin:
This helped me a lot with stability. Heat brought strange artifacts after the mod. Recommended 8)
Quote from: qwerty8787 on October 18, 2013, 07:37:29 PM
What's the temperature on your regulators?
Anyway, no matter what's the cause of this high temperature, I just solved it moving the regulators on the chassis via cables, attached with screws (with thermal grease between chassis and regulators). Now temperature hardly goes over 35 °C :icon_biggrin:
This helped me a lot with stability. Heat brought strange artifacts after the mod. Recommended 8)
Never had a problem with this. We're not adding any significant load here, other than LED's, if used. Even then, the regulator is more than capable than handling this. I would back trace to see if something is drawing too much current. Solder bridge jumps to mind. :icon_question:
Well, just for kicks, I plugged in my XP-ALL+ today, and left it on for almost 6 hours. It never glitched once.
I believe that maybe the regulator might be on it's way out, since you previously had a power supply problem, or there must be a grounding problem somewhere in your unit.
If need be, look in my information folder in the gallery (under Dino's Stuff), and you'll find the schematics for all the XP units. It will help you troubleshoot your power problem.
In my experience, I've never had a regulator over heat due to the conversion, and to my knowledge, neither has G_L. After all, we're not making any big demands on the regulator, other than powering LED's, if installed. One of the reasons that I went with 3mm LED's as well. If no LED's are installed, the regulator should be loaded the same as it was before the conversion.
Edit post above... I forgot it plugged in. :icon_redface:
It's been two days now. :icon_rolleyes:
Still works fine, no glitching. :icon_biggrin:
I agree with Digi2t...
If you performed the mod correctly, the regulator should NOT be getting hot at all!
I errored when I said;
QuoteAfter all, we're not making any big demands on the regulator, other than powering LED's, if installed.
I forgot about the relay for the stereo switching in 100 mode.
Even though, I've left my unit on, in 100 mode, for the day. So far, no glitch.
FWIW, I used the Omron G5V-1 (5VDC) micro relay. The coil only pulls 30mA at 5vdc, the regulator should handle the added load fine. It has in mine. If you're using the stereo mod, maybe look at the relay you've chosen (if it isn't the above stated), that might be your problem. Another good choice would be the Nais TK1-5V. PCB mount pins, like the Omron, much lower physical profile, and the coil only pulls 28mA.
Really fancy having a go at the fantastic XP All mod.
Does this PCB look right compared to the perfboard ?
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/xpall.png)
Looks good to me. I know it's tight for R3, but I would maybe move the pad for pin 3 down some, and move a pad for R3, so I could have the resistor lay down flat (opposite R1). It's impossible to do with perf, and not add another row of holes, but with a PCB, you can extend your trace, and make it work. You won't have one resistor standing up either.
Nice work! :icon_cool:
Good idea, standy up resistors are the devils work.
Decided to go across the top though.
<images removed>
If this looks right I will send it off to OSHPark
Scratch that R3 across the top and R1 on the left hand side now so all the wires are on the same side and the board is smaller
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/XPAll3.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/XPAll4.JPG)
Beautiful work! Very nice. :icon_cool:
Thanks, its my first ever PCB, I will have a spare that you can have for free if you want as the writer of the most excellent guide. Or i can share on oshpark if you wanted to order some of your own. $11.50 for 3
Is there anyone in the UK that can Erase then burn me the XP all + image ?. I have the chip
@marmaliser
I might be interested in one of your boards if you happen to find a spare ;)
If you cannot find anyone to burn your program.... I might be able to do it for you BUT... I am in the US :-\
If not, look into the TL866CS programmer on eBay. Its about $30-40 and it works great on the 27C series EPROMS.
Let me know about the board if you find one! :icon_cool:
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 05, 2013, 07:49:42 AM
@marmaliser
I might be interested in one of your boards if you happen to find a spare ;)
If you cannot find anyone to burn your program.... I might be able to do it for you BUT... I am in the US :-\
If not, look into the TL866CS programmer on eBay. Its about $30-40 and it works great on the 27C series EPROMS.
Let me know about the board if you find one! :icon_cool:
It would be a pleasure to let you have a board (free) as I can see you and dig2t went through a lot to get this working.
Quote from: marmaliser on November 05, 2013, 07:54:37 AM
It would be a pleasure to let you have a board (free) as I can see you and dig2t went through a lot to get this working.
I greatly appreciate it sir! I actually "mostly" use the 27C256 chips in my builds BUT, I want to build one for myself and use the 27C1001 for it ;)
I will PM you my details and you can decide if you want to send over your chip for programming ;D
Finally got a XP100 and I guess I am lucky as it is the version with the SMD chip already on.
I have the adapter board in place and all the sockets just waiting for a few bits now.
Dino do you have an idiots guide for the wiring of the XP ALL+ mod (minus the LED's) Could really do with this wire goes from here to here etc and the switch poles
Oh and did the boards you ordered work out ? If I was to do anymore I think I would space things out a bit more and leave enough room for plug connectors to make the wiring a bit easier.
Quote from: marmaliser on January 14, 2014, 09:01:04 AM
Dino do you have an idiots guide for the wiring of the XP ALL+ mod (minus the LED's) Could really do with this wire goes from here to here etc and the switch poles
Gonna try to field this one ;)
Do you have the most recent build doc? The wiring for the XP ALL+ is in there. Or, do you need something a bit more specific?
I have to echo G_L on this one. The latest version of the doc has all the wiring drawn out, in the XP-ALL+ section. The only thing that might be a bit vague, is the R30 to relay wiring, but it is shown on the vero layout, a page or two previous. In a nutshell, R30 wires are connected to the N.O. (normally open) side of the relay.
I did get some adapter boards. They're very smart indeed, thanks. :icon_cool:
No worries, I guess I am just been lazy and a bit blinded by all the wires (never done a rotary switch before)
Once I get soldering I am sure it will become clear
First off sorry for double posting but i am wiring up the switch now and it isn't making much sense
I could do with which wire connects to which number terminal on the switch
I have the following wires
U13 (I) goes to ?? switch number
U13 middle leg goes to etc
VSS mod board
Ground Mod board
A14 Mod board
A15 Mod Board
A16 Mod board
XP100 stereo power relay from Mod board
I am such a noob when it comes to switches. Would really appreciate it if one of you guys could fill in the little table above form..TIA ..M
OK....
First and foremost, tell me what kind of rotary switch you are using. Post a photo of it as well, if possible. The reason for this request is because the ALPS switches (for example) skip some numbers. I just need to be sure which switch you are using.
Once I have that info, I`ll list each wire, with the corresponding switch deck/pole number.
That`s as easy as I can make it for you... other than you paying me to come to your house. In which case, you better have Cuban cigars and a bottle of 20 year old port on stand-by. :icon_mrgreen:
:icon_redface:
Much appreciated
Here is the pic of the switch
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xuc15g83r8a5h81/switch.jpg)
Direct link just in case https://www.dropbox.com/s/xuc15g83r8a5h81/switch.jpg
and here is the board just for completeness
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/jt0n1jb8xzj20k9/board.jpg)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jt0n1jb8xzj20k9/board.jpg
Damn lad... I was hoping to see a plane ticket instead. Oh well, tie down your tuque with some bailing wire, 'cuz here we go...
First explination of what I mean by switch "decks". Since we have so many contacts, the ALPS switches stack them in decks, so in essence, we have two 3P4T rotary switches, one per deck, in one switch.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/SRRN243_zpsa898c7a4.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/SRRN243_zpsa898c7a4.jpg.html)
Next, we have to determine which are the COMMON terminals, and their correspoding contacts. The COMMON, or COM for short, is the contact that moves when you turn the switch. It will make contact with one of it's contacts in it's group. In this case, since we have four possible positions, we have one COM, and four contacts. On this ALPS switch the COM terminal is denoted by having little "ears" on the tip of the terminal.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/SRRN_C_1_zps98d424f0.gif) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/SRRN_C_1_zps98d424f0.gif.html)
In the build doc, the COM is shown as the "finger" of the switch that would move to make contact with the terminals, or "contacts".
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/6P4TSWITCHWIRING_zpsa31ed1d8.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/6P4TSWITCHWIRING_zpsa31ed1d8.jpg.html)
On this ALPS switch, the contacts are first, followed by the COM for that section. NOTE THAT SOME OF THE NUMBERS ARE NOT USED, SO IT'S NORMAL THAT NUMBERS MAY BE MISSING IN THE SEQUENCE. If we imagine looking at the switch from the top (shaft) side, the contacts and COM's are laid out as such for one deck. Each deck is identical.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/SRRN_C_23_zps481d2d45.gif) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/SRRN_C_23_zps481d2d45.gif.html)
The number 1 contact is where the COM 6 would be, if your selector was turned completely to the left (ccw). Contacts 1, 2, 4, and 5 are served by COM 6. Contacts 7, 8, 10, and 11 are served by COM 12, and so on. So, we have 3 COM's (3P), and 4 contacts (also called "throws") for each COM (4T). Hence, a 3P4T switch. The fact that we have stacked two together, makes this a 6P4T.
In the XP-ALL+, the switch numbers correspond as follows to the connections. Note that everything is numbered in orientation of looking at the switch as you would in reality. Position 1, giving you XP-100 mode, position 2 XP-200, and so on. THE UPPER CONNECTIONS (FOR A14, A15, AND A16) REPRESENT ONE DECK, AND THE LOWER SET, THE OTHER DECK.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/6P4TSWITCHWIRING_numbered_zps71740a5f.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/6P4TSWITCHWIRING_numbered_zps71740a5f.jpg.html)
I hope that this clarifies the connections where the rotary switch is concerned. As far I can see, connection labels are pretty well covered in the build document. For example "A14" is shown on the prefboard layout as connecting to pin 29, and R1. The wire from the adapter board would connect to terminal 6 on the rotary switch in this case.
With the above info in mind, take the time, and go through it slowly. I'm sure that your brain will have the "Eureka!" moment, and it will all come together for you. If not... I'm on vacation for 4 weeks, end of February, beginning of March. Get the airfare, port, and cigars ready. :icon_wink:
I AM NOT WORTHY :icon_redface:
Sincere thanks
Eureka moment came with the red numbers on the switch pole diagram.. It had just not sunk in until then
Anyway I know have a pedal that is doing all but the second position (XP200) so I will be checking my adapter board and soldering etc.
Quote from: marmaliser on January 24, 2014, 09:31:17 AM
Anyway I know have a pedal that is doing all but the second position (XP200) so I will be checking my adapter board and soldering etc.
Let us know what comes of this!
Was gonna use the adapter board but now... I will hold off until we hear back. :-\
Quote from: marmaliser on January 24, 2014, 09:31:17 AM
I AM NOT WORTHY :icon_redface:
Sincere thanks
Eureka moment came with the red numbers on the switch pole diagram.. It had just not sunk in until then
Anyway I know have a pedal that is doing all but the second position (XP200) so I will be checking my adapter board and soldering etc.
In my book, everybody that tries is worthy. I didn`t get this far by not trying, and asking questions along the way. I`m glad that it helped. It`s always a worry for me when I write stuff up, that what makes sense to me, may not neccessarily make sense to someone else. It always reminds me of Denzel Washington in «Philadelphia» when he says «OK, now explain it to me as if I was a 4 year old».
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 24, 2014, 09:45:10 AM
Quote from: marmaliser on January 24, 2014, 09:31:17 AM
Anyway I know have a pedal that is doing all but the second position (XP200) so I will be checking my adapter board and soldering etc.
Let us know what comes of this!
Was gonna use the adapter board but now... I will hold off until we hear back. :-\
Hmmm... I haven`t tried it yet, but it should be pretty easy to validate. Continuity check should take a couple of minutes.
Quote from: digi2t on January 24, 2014, 11:53:49 AM
Hmmm... I haven`t tried it yet, but it should be pretty easy to validate. Continuity check should take a couple of minutes.
YEs but.... I'm LAZY :icon_redface:
And I am battling another monster project right now! :icon_eek:
Hmmmm, a bit more testing actually with an amp this time and looking at the effect numbers shows that I have
Position 1 = XP100 Whammy
Position 2 = Nothing get -- on screen and then switches off
Position 3 = XP200 modulator
Position 4 = XP400 Reverb
EDIT - Noticed that my xp100's first ram slot is a 61464c which is different to the other 3 I installed (41464c) . Looking at the datasheets they appear to be different . Is this the problem as the XP300 needs more ram . d2t said "For the RAM, three more of the same as what you've got in there now, or four D41464C"
According to the schematics, the RAM requirements for each model is as follows;
XP-100 - one chip.
XP-200 - one chip.
XP-300 - four chips.
XP-400 - three chips.
As for the 61464, it
might be the problem. I've been scanning over the datasheets, but to my eye, they look pretty much the same. There might be something that is preventing them from interacting though. Personally, I would go with 4 identical chips, just to be sure. In the meantime, double check all your connections.
Also,
QuotePosition 1 = XP100 Whammy
Position 2 = Nothing get -- on screen and then switches off
Position 3 = XP200 modulator
Position 4 = XP400 Reverb
Is this the actual order that you have now? Shouldn't 200 mode be in "Position 2", and 300 mode in "Position 3"?
Yep XP 200 is deffo in slot 3. I have verified this by checking the volume pedal programme numbers just to be sure
I have checked the switching and i get the same as you per page 11
"A14 A15 A16
0 0 0 = XP100
0 0 1 = XP200
1 1 0 = XP300
1 1 1 = XP400"
Except i have nothing in p2 and xp200 in p3 WEIRD !!!!
Checked the switch wiring at least 10 times and it looks ok. Also the adapter board checks out.
I have never used any other RAM chips other than the D41464s and, for a short time, I used some TMS version that I cannot remember the exact numbers but I did my diligence and found they were identical.
I HIGHLY recommend that you install D41464-10 RAM chips for EVERY slot. DO NOT mix and match versions and speeds.
Also, if your pedal works in XP400 mode then it "should" work in 100 and 200 mode as the same RAM chips are in use.... just less of them. XP100 and 200 uses the chip in slot U19. The XP400 uses U19, U18, and U17. The XP300 uses all 4 of them.
Personally... I think you have 2 problems. Mismatched RAM chips -AND- bad programming on your 27C1001 :-\
Thanks for the continued input guys.
Burnt another 27c010a today. Checked it back in the programmer and also read it back to a Bin file which i confirmed using an Hex editor to be an exact match sadly still got the same result.
I had a 256 chip so burnt the XP300 onto that and plugged it straight in. That worked fine
So it must be the adapter board, wiring or switch that is the problem. .......Off to check it all again.
Quote from: marmaliser on January 27, 2014, 01:44:40 PM
Burnt another 27c010a today. Checked it back in the programmer and also read it back to a Bin file which i confirmed using an Hex editor to be an exact match...
Well... if the 256 chip worked fine, then it can only be 3 things...
1) Your adapter board has issues.
2) Your wiring is not correct
3) The way you are programming your 1001 chip is not correct. (This is where my money is) ;)
The fact that you said your XP100, XP400, and XP200 programs were working fine tells me that it "shouldn't" be your adapter board and "probably" not your wiring.
This leaves #3 :-\
Let us know.
Good Luck ;D
Just looking at making a vero adapter and I could be wrong but isn't the connection R1 / A14 on the wrong row ? (looks like A13 to me)
Quote from: marmaliser on January 27, 2014, 04:48:31 PM
Just looking at making a vero adapter and I could be wrong but isn't the connection R1 / A14 on the wrong row ? (looks like A13 to me)
There is a great example of the vero in Dino's build document. Page 47. Its in the gallery bro ;D
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 27, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: marmaliser on January 27, 2014, 04:48:31 PM
Just looking at making a vero adapter and I could be wrong but isn't the connection R1 / A14 on the wrong row ? (looks like A13 to me)
There is a great example of the vero in Dino's build document. Page 47. Its in the gallery bro ;D
i know its been hard work to get me this far but lol, i aint that stupid. Thats the one i was referring to (should have said though). I think there may be an error on it.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/vero.jpg)
Gotcha! ;)
I do believe you are correct sir! It looks like R1 needs to be moved up one row to coorespond to A14 on both chips. Right now, it is connected to A13 of both chips!
PAGING DOCTOR DIGI2T!!! ::)
Does this mean that the fabbed adapter boards are not going to work? :-\
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2014, 07:34:04 AM
Does this mean that the fabbed adapter boards are not going to work? :-\
I based mine on the perf so this doesn't impact on it and it does connect all the right pins.
I will be building the vero tonight (corrected) so I can pin my problem down a bit more. I have another XP100 coming tomorrow so want to get this sorted.
Hi guys,
First off, a disclaimer; I`m writing this from memory, since I looked at things last night and this morning. I`m at work right now, so I don`t have things in front of me. Hence...
A) The vero is incorrect where R1 is concerned. Why? I based my layout on a «hole for hole» transfer from the perf, and since I wanted R1 to lay flat, on the perf I could «up and over» my trace to the pin above. I neglected this detail on the vero. Pin connection for R1 should be up one hole on the vero. The perf is correct though, I eyeballed it with my unit. The vero will be corrected tonight, and the build doc updated.
B) While I was on things, I believe there is an error with the OSH Park board. To my eyes, there is a trace missing between pin 32 of the 27C1001, and pin 28 of the 27C256 header. This is the Vcc supply, which is critical, especially considering that R1 is fed from here, so it has no connection to Vcc either. The other end of R1 connection looks fine, as well as the other three resistors, since it looks like it was based off the perf version, and not the vero. I would appreciate a validation on this, and if so, the OSH board will require a jumper between these two points. This is most likely the reason for which position two on your unit is not booting up, and
MIGHT be the reason why XP-200 mode is booting up in position three.
In the end, there was a little right, and a little wrong, on both sides. Just remember folks, in the end, we`re all human, and sometimes logic can become a fleeting thing in the face of difficult situations. Statements such as;
Quotei know its been hard work to get me this far but lol, i aint that stupid.
are counterproductive, and only serve to blind further. I prefer to try and fit my pieces into the pieces that other bring to the table instead. Collectively, even the most inexperienced people can serve to expand the vision of the experienced.
Amen.
Amen. Sorry I was self-deprecating to make light of my earlier wiring blindness
Below is an image from Diptrace that shows the connections to pin 28 of the 27C256. Anything with a red circle is connected. Can you see a problem ?
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/XPALL%20R1.JPG)
OK, my eyes didn`t make the connection of the two traces on either side of the board. This was early this morning of course, before my first cup of java, so all bets are off. ;D
The Diptrace looks correct though, so we`re back to square one. The important questions here are;
A) If everything is wired correctly, why is position 2 not booting up?
B) Why is XP-200 booting up in position three.
In light of my vero error, I`m going to re-examine my switch wiring scheme as well tonight. Although, I believe that G_L has been using the same schem for several builds now, without issue, so I would be surprised (shocked) if there is an error there.
Quote from: digi2t on January 28, 2014, 12:28:40 PM
Although, I believe that G_L has been using the same schem for several builds now, without issue, so I would be surprised (shocked) if there is an error there.
I have yet to build with the 27C1001 chip, adapter, or wiring scheme :-\
I am still using my stock of stacked 27C256 chips until they are exhausted so.... I cannot comment on the wiring or correctness of the 27C1001 chip, adapter board, or wiring.
Sorry.. :'(
The build doc has been updated, and is now available in the gallery.
The vero has been corrected, and I also added the SRRN pole numbers to the XP-ALL+ wiring diagram. That should clear up any confusion.
I've double checked my XP-ALL+ unit switch wiring versus the document, and all is correct.
Dang, that was quick :)
Just thought I had a breakthrough for a minute, look at the pic
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/c10.JPG)
C10 which is in the power section looked a bit bloated and was covered in white powder. I snipped it off and it measured 11uf which was within tolerance but it needed replacing anyway.
Sadly after replacement still the same error :(
Going forward I have a new 27c1001 coming as I have been using 27c010. Not confident but it will rule something else out
Then its replace the adapter with the vero layout
After that its replace the switch
After that its fill the switch hole up and sell it with just the xp300 rom in it!!
I have had another Xp100 arrive today and this one also has the SMD already and the 256 Chip in a socket. Bought it for £67 , two days later another one went for £113 ...go figure
Are we sure there are no differences in terms of the mod between these units and the later ones ?
Quote from: marmaliser on January 29, 2014, 03:04:14 PM
Are we sure there are no differences in terms of the mod between these units and the later ones ?
The only difference is the headache you save with having to solder in the SMD 574 chip and having to solder in the 28-pin socket for the EEPROM :P
The rest of the circuit should function the same as the units with the XP100 code in the CPU submask.
I have modded 3 of the older XP100 units and never had a problem with them. Of course, I did not use the 27C1001 chips but... ::)
When I mod the "newer" XP100s (the ones without the SMD 574), I dont try to make use of the CPU submask program. I just bypass it and incorporate a 27C256 chip with the 100 program loaded. It is relatively easy to do it this way for me at least.
Thats good to know.. Thanks
I must be blessed
Hey... have you tried erasing your EPROM and reprogramming? Could be corrupted. It's happened to me once, and erasing and reprogramming did the trick.
Or, maybe the EPROM is fubar. Do you do a write verification following programming? I ask because if the switch wiring is correct, then XP-200 should not be booting up in position 3. Logically, it's wrong.
Does anyone have any extra preprogrammed 27C1001's they could sell me? I'm not keen on buying a programmer just yet for only one chip that I need.
Quote from: Mojsisije on February 04, 2014, 06:10:17 PM
Does anyone have any extra preprogrammed 27C1001's they could sell me? I'm not keen on buying a programmer just yet for only one chip that I need.
Where are you ?
I am abandoning my XPALL+ idea and just plan on converting my XP200 to an XP300.
I have no use for the XP100, and I never liked any of the tones of the XP400 either. Plus I got a strymon to cover my reverb needs. I owned an XP1000 Jet Pack, so I know I wont get any use from those. All I really want is the Space Station.
Can anyone burn me an XP300 chip? I will pay obviously and I can also provide the chip if necessary.
Quote from: FuzzAldrin on February 26, 2014, 01:12:32 PM
I am abandoning my XPALL+ idea and just plan on converting my XP200 to an XP300.
I have no use for the XP100, and I never liked any of the tones of the XP400 either. Plus I got a strymon to cover my reverb needs. I owned an XP1000 Jet Pack, so I know I wont get any use from those. All I really want is the Space Station.
Can anyone burn me an XP300 chip? I will pay obviously and I can also provide the chip if necessary.
Pm'd
Can I use 10uF Tantalum caps rated at 16v for the RAM caps, or should I only use 25v?
If memory serves me correctly, the power supply at that point is down to 5vdc, so 16v caps should be fine.
Quote from: FuzzAldrin on February 26, 2014, 11:45:33 PM
Can I use 10uF Tantalum caps rated at 16v for the RAM caps, or should I only use 25v?
I second what Dino says above...
If you have them on-hand, use 16V. If you have to order, ger the 25V ;)
Thanks guys! :)
Okay, so I now have a 27C010 chip from marmaliser, and am experiencing the same problem I believe, the second mode doesn't work and the third one is the XP200 mode. I'm still reluctant on getting a programmer, but if someone could get me a tested working EPROM for under 20$ shipped to Cro, I'd be forever thankful, so that I can get to the bottom of this once and for all.
On the other hand, I've already wired everything in, but haven't drilled anything yet, and I got the idea to omit the switch, and use a microcontroller to switch modes and handle bypass. Also I'm planning on making mine true bypass, and possibly even adding the ability to make it able to be used in two different places in the effect chain. I think I got the modes, LED indication and bypass all figured out with an Arduino to control it, I just have to get a working IC and make a schematic and I'll post it up here.
Cheers!
Are you using the adapter board from marmaliser as well? There were some issues with it and I believe it was discussed here. Might want to check the adapter board and compare it with the diagram in the build document to verify that the proper connections are being made.
No, I made the adapter board from the vero layout in the document. With the corrected placement of the A14 pin. And I omitted the relay part for the XP100 stereo mode.
I should also mention that I'm using an XP400 as the base.
Who burned the chip? I've looked over the vero/perfboard/PCB versions, and to my eyes, everything looks kosher.
Quote from: digi2t on March 06, 2014, 09:08:31 AM
Who burned the chip? I've looked over the vero/perfboard/PCB versions, and to my eyes, everything looks kosher.
Look like it was marmaliser. HE might need to revisit his burn files and/or where he is getting his chips :-\
it was indeed marmaliser. I've sent him a recompiled .bin file to try it out.
Also, in the build document, on the vero adapter, the A14 switch point should go a row higher, this way it connects to pin A13 of the 27C1001.
On another note, I've just checked my mailbox and replaced the stock D41464C-80 rams with D41464C-10's, and now I'm having trouble with getting anything to work at all. Oh well, more debugging time.
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 06, 2014, 09:37:30 AM
it was indeed marmaliser. I've sent him a recompiled .bin file to try it out.
Also, in the build document, on the vero adapter, the A14 switch point should go a row higher, this way it connects to pin A13 of the 27C1001.
On another note, I've just checked my mailbox and replaced the stock D41464C-80 rams with D41464C-10's, and now I'm having trouble with the Reverberator part as well. Oh well, more debugging time.
Please send me the bin file as well; digi2t@netscape.net . I'm just curious.
If you look in the Gallery, I updated the build doc to reflect the correction to the vero, and I also added numbering to the switch lugs in the wiring schematic. The latter posed a problem, since the ALPS switch lug numbers are not perfectly sequential (numbers jumped). Link to doc;
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=50457 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=50457)
*EDIT*
Also, where did you get your RAM from? I believe I posted about this a while back; I made the mistake of thinking that I had "scored" a great deal on ten D41464C-12's, at $1.38 each. This is what I got;
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100518.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100518.0)
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 06, 2014, 09:37:30 AM
On another note, I've just checked my mailbox and replaced the stock D41464C-80 rams with D41464C-10's, and now I'm having trouble with the Reverberator part as well. Oh well, more debugging time.
I "believe" that, if they are indeed good chips, that the -80 should work just fine. The -80 indicated an 80nS response time where the -10 is a 100nS response time. What you DO NOT want to use is the -15 chips.
The -80, -10, and -12 should work fine here. What you might have are either bad chips -OR- they may be loose in the sockets. Did you use the cheap sping-type 18-pin sockets from Tayda?
Dino... feel free to correct me if this is not good info ;D
I must have an outdated version then, thanks. And my ALPS switch is wired exactly the same way as that.
Also, it seems that something else went wrong because I've returned the original RAMs and still nothing, the only thing that passes sound actually is the Reverberator, the others don't pass sound at all, with the XP300 mode still unavailable.
EDIT: It might be bad RAMs, the ones I've ordered are also NEC Japan, the ones in the device being NEC Ireland, this is where I got them from, when I was still thinking of using an XP100, before the XP400 came into play:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400424414582?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I've edited my message above.
What G_L says about the sockets is true as well. Make sure to test conductivity from pin to board.
As an aside, I've been burned again of late by the fake IC bug. This time by UTSource, over some MPQ2484 transistor arrays. All had matching serial numbers... and all were duds. I believe it's a clear cue, order a bunch, and if they all sport the same serial number, beware!
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 06, 2014, 09:53:52 AM
I must have an outdated version then, thanks. And my ALPS switch is wired exactly the same way as that.
Also, it seems that something else went wrong because I've returned the original RAMs and still nothing, the only thing that passes sound actually is the Reverberator, the others don't pass sound at all, with the XP300 mode still unavailable.
EDIT: It might be bad RAMs, the ones I've ordered are also NEC Japan, the ones in the device being NEC Ireland, this is where I got them from, when I was still thinking of using an XP100, before the XP400 came into play:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400424414582?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I hate to say it, but they might be duds as well.
This is a reliable source;
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RAM-D41464C-12-NEC-18-Pin-DIP-41464C-41464-/370263994587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56357430db (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RAM-D41464C-12-NEC-18-Pin-DIP-41464C-41464-/370263994587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56357430db)
And I think that G_L also gets them from Jamesco. Correct me if I'm wrong bro. :icon_question:
The sockets were the ones that came with the XP400 unit. I don't mind so much if they are duds, eBay buyer protection's got me covered, but what I'm worried about is that the device won't work with the old RAMs installed, not even in the modes it - DID - work in before.
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 06, 2014, 10:14:25 AM
The sockets were the ones that came with the XP400 unit.
The XP400 only comes with 3 of the 4 RAM sockets installed and populated. You need to have ALL 4 sockets and RAMs installed to get the XP300 Space Station.
Furthermore... the XP100 and XP200 only use 1 of the RAMs. It would stand to reason that if you are getting the XP400 to work that the 100 and 200 "should" work as well as the chips are cascaded.
Is there any way you could post some pics of your PCB? Might be able to see an issue.
FWIW, I've done a comparison of the XP-ALL bin file you emailed me, and the one I have used / published, and they match.
Problem is elsewhere. :icon_rolleyes:
It would seem then that the previous owner installed the last one. I bought it used with a missing bypass switch PCB and main EPROM, but I was going to replace that anyway. And a few missing components that were since populated.
But the XP400 doesn't even work now, it only passes dry signal, whereas the other modes don't even do that. Unfortunately my phone's in the shop so I can't take any pictures right now, but nothing seems out of the ordinary so far. I'm more concerned with the EPROM chip than the RAMs, I can get them locally, albeit for a bigger price, but why NOTHING works now is baffling me.
The one I emailed is not the one marmaliser flashed onto the chip, I've only sent him this one when I discovered the same problem he had. Since the only components we shared in our builds are the EPROM and a single 0,39uF cap, I strongly believe it's the EPROM's fault. I'd like to at least try a different chip, but I don't want to spend $100+ on equipment that I'd only use for one or two builds. I might make my own EPROM programmer if I get the time, but right now I'm trying to get it to do at least something.
Thank you all for your continued support and help!
**EDIT**
Ok, so a factory reset made everything back to how it was before, so, position 1 is XP100, pos 2 nothing, pos 3 XP300, and pos 4 XP400, and I forgot to mention, patch 48 on the XP400 mode resets the device and makes it boot to patch 44 on occasion. So I'm thinking it IS in fact the EPROM's fault. So I'm still looking for a proved working version of it.
OK... lets think about this logically and dangerously! :icon_eek:
- Is there any way that you can put the XP back to its original configuration? Can you install an original EPROM chip with the XP400 coding on it for testing?
- If you are indeed missing the Bypass/Effect PCB, then something you could try is to QUICKLY short the pads where the switch connects to the PCB. Does the pedal say "BP" on the display? I am thinking that since the switch is missing that your pedal is stuck in bypass mode. If you QUICKLY short the two pads while the unit is powered then you might be able to switch it into effect mode and that might solve your dry out issue. But again, this is ONLY if the display is reading "BP"
- If the pedal does NOT say BP and it shows a program number in the display then your problem(s) are elsewhere.
EDIT: I would HIGHLY suggest posting up some pics when you can of the entire PCB.
EDIT2: OK... look like you should focus on getting the Bypass switch replaced. I recommend that you do that before proceeding ;)
It's something the fake RAMs did to the pedal, a factory reset got it back to original specs. I've wired a momentary pushbutton to the footswitch button's original place so that's of no concern to me, and I've crafted a replacement footswitch board that wors just fine as well.
Like I said, it worked fine before, I can distinguish the bypass mode from when it's on, and that's the first thing I tried. This isn't my first pedal modification ;)
But thanks for the swift and detailed replies. Now all that's left for me is to get a working EPROM, or buy/make a programmer.
PM'd Moj...
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 06, 2014, 10:33:24 AM
Ok, so a factory reset made everything back to how it was before, so, position 1 is XP100, pos 2 nothing, pos 3 XP300, and pos 4 XP400, and I forgot to mention, patch 48 on the XP400 mode resets the device and makes it boot to patch 44 on occasion. So I'm thinking it IS in fact the EPROM's fault. So I'm still looking for a proved working version of it.
WT...!! :icon_eek:
Calling up a patch number, sends it into reboot?
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. :icon_rolleyes:
Seeing as how (to date) I'm the only one with a working + version, burning and testing a chip here, and sending it to you is a tempting proposition. Just so we can put all this EPROM squawk behind us.
If it can be done for around $20, you may just have yourself a deal ;)
Hey guys, I really hope that this is something I am doing wrong with the Eprom because we can at least sort it and I can give Mos a new Chip no probs
I have the TOP853 and using Version 6.13 on Windows XP (have to fire up an old pc everytime)(have tried on two diff PC's)
I choose the Eprom in my case TI27C010 then do a read to check it is all blank. Screen shows all FF
Then load the bin file with odefault options so - BIN, Normal , Fill by FF , Buffer start 00000
All i do then is do a burn and verify.
Is there anything else I should change / check
I have also tried with an STI27C001 with same results
Just made a new ALL bin with the files in reverse and I get XP100, XP200, XP100 and XP100 as I turn the switch
@marmaliser
Does your GUI program for the burner have a comparative function? If it does, you should install one of your freshly loaded chips into the burner. Then, download digi2t's program from the gallery (.BIN) and set it as the loader file in the GUI. Then, do a comparison of the loaded gallery .BIN file to the file that is on your chip.
If there are any errors in the comparison then that is your issue.
This.. OR... you could just download the VERIFIED file from the gallery and use it. If you are still having problems then it might have something to do with your programmer's setup in the GUI
Done loads of verify's and file comparisons...As an IT Professional this is the only part that I truly understand. The rest is just paint by numbers with a little learning thrown in.
Well so far I've hardwired it to the XP100 mode and just made the true bypass part so I have a usable replacement for my whammy, I'll continue with the arduino-controlled switching once I get the rest of the modes working.
Thanks for this awesome project! I'll post some pics once I get my phone back from the shop.
Having some issues maybe you can help with.
I am converting my second XP100 to an XP100/300. The first worked well, using memory from Jameco, 100nS and EPROM flashed by digit.
The second I have working in XP100 mode and technically working in 300 mode but it sounds disfunctional. The effect sound is very digitally distorted/degraded and does not clear when it should. For example, playing a note will play whatever program is loaded and will mostly decay but some trail and about a half second of sound will loop indefinitely and never clear.
I have swapped out the memory from my other working unit as well as the XP300 EPROM, and the unit still doesn't function. Worth noting that on volume pedal program the unit does work fine. To me this probably means a memory issue since the volume unit doesn't use the extra RAM. Any suggestions apart from the obvious resoldering all sockets and added parts? I did at the second hc574, but have resoldered it as well.
Out of ideas here since I don't know how the memory stuff works.
thanks,
Quote from: Michael Allen on March 06, 2014, 11:41:19 PM
Having some issues maybe you can help with.
I am converting my second XP100 to an XP100/300. The first worked well, using memory from Jameco, 100nS and EPROM flashed by digit.
The second I have working in XP100 mode and technically working in 300 mode but it sounds disfunctional. The effect sound is very digitally distorted/degraded and does not clear when it should. For example, playing a note will play whatever program is loaded and will mostly decay but some trail and about a half second of sound will loop indefinitely and never clear.
I have swapped out the memory from my other working unit as well as the XP300 EPROM, and the unit still doesn't function. Worth noting that on volume pedal program the unit does work fine. To me this probably means a memory issue since the volume unit doesn't use the extra RAM. Any suggestions apart from the obvious resoldering all sockets and added parts? I did at the second hc574, but have resoldered it as well.
Out of ideas here since I don't know how the memory stuff works.
thanks,
OK, just so I'm on track here,
1) Have you have tested the
second EPROM in the first working unit, rather than vice versa? Just to be sure that the second EPROM is OK.
2) Might it be that the 74HC574 you soldered in has been damaged (too much heat on a leg(s), for instance)?
Yes, the two EPROMS both work in the first unit. They are good. I have more 74hc574 so I may just try to swap that out and see.
I emailed digitech support and they replied
"Michael,
Check DRAMS(u16-u19), and/or TMS chip(u15).
Regards,
Digitech Support"
Pretty helpful..... I asked if they had service document or ways I could test for issues. They didn't give me much more than I already knew. All RAM are getting 5v, I don't know what else to look for voltage wise.
OK. It's a good thing that you have a working unit to A/B with.
Start with double checking that all your RAM is good (U16 - U19), swapping, and testing, all between the two units. Do a pin conductivity test on each pin, of all RAMS.
Change out the HC574 if the RAM test checks out. Once it's replaced, do a pin conductivity test on all pins.
Do the above, and then we'll maybe consider U15. I find that one a bit of a stretch.
If it works in XP100 mode just fine and you are getting distortion and/or missing patches in XP300 mode then my bet is that the problem is with your RAM chips. Specifically, U16-U18. ;)
Got it, there was some bridging between the pins of the TMS chip where the second RAM is connected. Must have been there all along but never caused a problem with only one RAM chip.
That's great news and something for future modders to look out for. And what the hell is the chance of two people with the same name posting on this thread. For one minute i thought i had created another account or been hacked
All the best
Mick A
Quote from: Michael Allen on March 07, 2014, 11:54:22 PM
Got it, there was some bridging between the pins of the TMS chip where the second RAM is connected. Must have been there all along but never caused a problem with only one RAM chip.
HOLY SHIT BATMAN!!
And the TMS was last on my list of things to check. Goes to show... the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.
OK... that's a new one. Good catch.... no, check that.... GREAT catch! I guess you got a "Friday afternoon" production unit. The QC dept. must have gone home for the long weekend.
I just got the new chip in the mail, and it is with great regret for myself that I have to say, no change. 1 is stil XP100, 2 is nothing, 3 is XP200 and 4 is XP400.
But then again at least we can cross that out now and I can try to find something else as the culprit.
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 21, 2014, 09:33:33 AM
I just got the new chip in the mail, and it is with great regret for myself that I have to say, no change. 1 is stil XP100, 2 is nothing, 3 is XP200 and 4 is XP400.
But then again at least we can cross that out now and I can try to find something else as the culprit.
Well.... that's good.... in a way. I guess. Maybe. :icon_rolleyes:
It's as if it's a wiring problem, related to the switching logic. Bizarre.
Exactly where my thoughts went, seeing as the program code for the XP200 and XP300 are inverted, and one requires 1 1 0 to the pins and the other 0 0 1, there might be something to it. I'll look into it when I get the time. Also I think I've scored an XP100 locally so I'll see what I can do with that one, as I now have extra chips.
Good news in a way, at least I know my chips / programming and adapter board are good.
Agree it is somewhere in the switching / logic.
Look forward to your findings Moj... and digi2t thanks for the continued input ;D
Hello everybody,
At last, I finished reading the whole thread, I'm starting to gear up to perform the mod, I have some questions (and I'm sure I'll have more when all the pars arrive)
Could I replace the tantalums with electros?
Are these just "preset" machines? could there be a way to manipulate parameters or to create some more "presets", say for the XP300?
Incredible work everybody, thank you!
Mongo
Quote from: mongo on March 22, 2014, 05:37:59 PM
Could I replace the tantalums with electros?
This question has come up before, and I believe that you should stick with Tantalums. They're stability, and longevity, are desirable traits where your precious RAM is concerned.
Quote from: mongo on March 22, 2014, 05:37:59 PM
Are these just "preset" machines? could there be a way to manipulate parameters or to create some more "presets", say for the XP300?
Way above my pay grade. Sorry, no idea.
Quote from: mongo on March 22, 2014, 05:37:59 PM
Are these just "preset" machines? could there be a way to manipulate parameters or to create some more "presets", say for the XP300?
Absolutely. But, to do so, you'd have to look at the .bin file for the desired model, figure out where the individual programs start, how they affect the signal, what parameters do they use, and much more. However, all we have from the factory compiled .bin files is a bunch of hex data, which to a third party, is literally gibberish. Should we somehow get some specification as to what does what, for example, the value "FF" on the address line "&AAEEDD00" states the volume, then we could go somewhere. However, since I don't see it happening anytime soon, we could safely say that we'll just stick to the presets at hand.
Quote from: Mojsisije on March 23, 2014, 08:55:26 AM
Absolutely. But, to do so, you'd have to look at the .bin file for the desired model, figure out where the individual programs start, how they affect the signal, what parameters do they use, and much more. However, all we have from the factory compiled .bin files is a bunch of hex data, which to a third party, is literally gibberish. Should we somehow get some specification as to what does what, for example, the value "FF" on the address line "&AAEEDD00" states the volume, then we could go somewhere. However, since I don't see it happening anytime soon, we could safely say that we'll just stick to the presets at hand.
In other words..... We would need the
source code. That... you are most likely NOT going to be getting from Digitech/Harman.
Or... you could find yourself a software and coding guru who can nerd out and spend countless hours trying to reverse engineer the coding.
Either way.... I think you are stuck with what we have for presets :-\
As for the Tantalums... I second what digi2t says.... why fix something that isn't broke? ;)
Thanks for your replies guys!
I undersand the difficulty of what I asked, I just thought it would be cool to come up with our own contraptions!
Hi all,
I could modify my XP200 to XP300 with this thread!! ;D
Thanks a lot !
from japan
Quote from: drm0120 on April 15, 2014, 11:00:41 AM
Hi all,
I could modify my XP200 to XP300 with this thread!! ;D
Thanks a lot !
from japan
Hi, welcome to the forum.
Glad we could help.
From Canada.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on September 30, 2012, 09:47:19 AM
Quote from: mwynwood on September 30, 2012, 02:41:50 AM
Hi guys,
Help! I'm having some trouble.
It doesn't matter what the switch is doing, it's always an XP-100!
Have I missed something?
(http://i47.tinypic.com/ndoac7.jpg)
In addition to missing the SMD chip that digi2t stated, you also have a wiring problem. It will be addressed in the build documents but I will explain.
It has to do with there your RED wire is going. I know that digi2t wired his conversion this way however, it leads to problems once you want to use the stereo output jack.
To fix the problem, you will need to desolder your red wire from where it is on the PCB and solder it DIRECTLY TO THE SLEEVE TAB ON J2 (right output jack)
Trust me ;)
I have done several of these conversions and it will not work correctly the way you currently have it wired.
I'm sure digi2t will back me up on this one ;D
Hmmm... I just soldered in a 74HC574, and moved the red wire to the sleeve of the "dry out" jack (which is ground) and it is still not working :(
It's driving me mad haha ??? ??? ???
Here's where I'm at:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/n2zkuu.jpg)
Quote from: mwynwood on May 15, 2014, 05:15:14 AM
Here's where I'm at:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/n2zkuu.jpg)
Look next to the BLUE wire on the PCB..... did we forget to remove the SMD 10 ohm resistor (R38)?? :icon_redface:
This resistor HAS TO be removed in order to allow the CPU chip to go LO when in XP300 mode. Otherwise, even when you switch the DPDT toggle, the CPU chip will be held in a HI state.
I cannot tell 100% from the picture but, it looks to me like R38 is still installed. That needs to go ;)
Since you forgot to remove that SMD resistor, you might want to check if you remembered to remove R30 as well. It is located directly behind the Input jack (WA1) on the PCB. If this is not removed, you will not get the stereo output in XP300 mode (you also lose the Dry Out when in XP100 mode.... its a sacrifice you make when modding to another pedal)
Also..... If I were you, I would NOT use the audio jack for the DPDT toggle ground. I have recently made changes to my own builds as I found this to be an unrelaible place to solder (the solder joint can become weak as the contact flexes when jacks are inserted/removed)
I would advise that you solder your RED wire to the GND side of C59 (the green chicklet cap next to the power in jack) MAKE SURE YOU SOLDER IT TO THE LEG CLOSEST TO THE POWER JACK!!!
Thanks so much for your help - this project has been driving me crazy for ages haha *feeling stupid* :icon_rolleyes:
I haven't removed R30 yet, as I don't really care about the stereo-out or the dry-out.
Anyway, I removed R38.
Now, it loads up fine as an XP100, but when I power down, switch the switch and power up again, I get nothing at all.
Bad U8 (74HC574)? ???
I agree with Dino.
Do you have the XP100 schematic? It can be found easily online. The U8 chip pins connect "mostly" to the XP300 EPROM. You should check your SMD soldering. It is easy to have them look like they are connected. ;)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 16, 2014, 08:39:15 AM
You should check your SMD soldering. It is easy to have them look like they are connected. ;)
IT WORKS!
:icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:
One of the legs of the 74HC574 wasn't connected!!
Thanks so much for all your help guys!
Awesome!!!
I always check that chip to make sure ALL legs are making contact. Its habit now ::)
Enjoy.... and we will see you back here when you want to do the Output Volume mod. YES... you WILL want it... just wait! :icon_twisted:
+1 on the output volume mod. Realy helps it play better in an effects chain.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 18, 2014, 08:51:08 PMwe will see you back here when you want to do the Output Volume mod. YES... you WILL want it... just wait! :icon_twisted:
haha one step ahead! Already done:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/ndoac7.jpg)
I think that's the mod you guys are talking about?
It's a dual-gang pot to turn the output down.
(
PS: This photo is old, before I got it fully working)
Thanks so much for your help
Govmnt_Lacky and
digi2t!
You're very welcome. I'm happy to see that you got it sorted out. Good on ya!
Yep!! Thats the mod!
Ok then... I guess we will see you back when you want to add the other pedals in there (200, 400) :icon_twisted:
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 19, 2014, 08:50:27 AM
Yep!! Thats the mod!
Ok then... I guess we will see you back when you want to add the other pedals in there (200, 400) :icon_twisted:
haha yeah, that'd be the next logical step... if my sanity can stand it!
Dare I ask... pray tell, what is involved? *peeks inside Pandora's box*
Quote from: mwynwood on May 19, 2014, 08:54:55 AM
Dare I ask... pray tell, what is involved? *peeks inside Pandora's box*
A rotary switch (in place of the toggle you have now), a few more EPROMs, and some wiring! :icon_cool:
Hmm I think I could hack that...
Did I read somewhere that there was documentation being produced explaining the process?
Quote from: mwynwood on May 19, 2014, 09:10:43 AM
Hmm I think I could hack that...
Did I read somewhere that there was documentation being produced explaining the process?
Already done!
Dino has it in his folder in the Gallery ;)
XP-ALL and XP-ALL+ build doc;
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=50457 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=50457)
Like G_L says, not much more left to do for the "Full Monty".
Hey guys,
Just wanted to start off by introducing myself and extending a huge thank you to Dino and G_L for making this info available to everyone and sharing their help and experience as well. I've learned so much just by going through the build guide and building my own xp-all+. So thank you again and if ever we meet, beers are on me! ;D
I wanted to post to ask if Maj ever got the issues worked out with his xp? Ironically, I'm having the EXACT same issue with my build and I haven't been able to figure it out yet. Same issues here; 1 is xp100, 2 is dead, 3 is xp200, and 4 is xp400. Any ideas or things I could try to sus out what could be going on? Thanks again guys
@Prime
Are you using the adapter board that Maj made?
The best thing would be to go to Dino's build doc for the XP ALL+ and look at his adapter board. Use that as a guideline for measuring yours and see if there are differences. His was done on vero BUT, you can follow the path and see if your adapter board is a work-alike. I dont think we ever got true confirmation that the fabbed adapter boards were 100% accurate.
Other than that... double check your wiring to the rotary switch. That switch is very easy to get contacts mixed up.
Let us know how things turn out and Good Luck ;)
I think he meant Moj who didn't use my adapter and got the exact same problem as me. Mine are both sat there still with the same errors. Need to get them sorted
So that's 3 people and 4 builds with no commonality re parts between them but the EXACT same problem
I gues the questions that need to be asked are:
- What rotary switch did you use?
- Did you use the 27C1001 EPROM chip for all 4 of the programs?
- If so, Who programmed them?
- Where did you get the files?
Rotary - As per Doc . Bought from eBay
Yes XP all plus so 27C1001 and 27C1010
Programmed by me for moj and myself but he also tried one from digi2t with same results
Files were from the repository here.
Read back and you will see that I think we exhausted the possibility of it being the chip or the programming
I think the only successful xp all plus mod is digi2t's ?
I made both a vero and through hole perf board adapters. Same results w/ both. I also checked connection on ram pins and everything checks out. The 74HC ic was already installed as I'm building out of an xp-400, so that should be ok. I also used the rotary switch as per the build doc, from ebay and am using the 27C1001 eprom. I programmed it with a tl866cs programmer using the xp-all bin file from the gallery here. I have double and triple checked my switch wiring and everything seems to check out. Very confusing. I'll try to post some pics tonight, maybe someone will notice something I missed. Could having the vss wire from the adapter board, relay ground, and led grounds connected to the same pin on the rotary switch be causing an issue? I don't think that would be an issue but I'm running out of ideas and I'm hoping it's something minor and overlooked causing it as the other three modes work and are being successfully read from the eprom. Troubleshooting is always the roughest part of a build.
This is very weird. It kind of reminds me of a problem that a forumite had with a Colorsound Vocalizer build. He fought with it for nearly a month, posting here several times a week. This included several pictures. Finally, in desperation, he sent it to me. After half an hour on the bench, I traced it down to a wrong resistor value on the board. One red band, that should have been orange. Unfortunately, the pictures he posted weren't hi-rez enough to make that out.
Moral of the story;
No matter how much back and forthing we did here, it didn't help. In some cases, if we can't see it, we can't help. It sucks. Especially since it doesn't seem to be an isolated problem. :icon_rolleyes:
Insofar as the Vss/ground question, no it shouldn't. Mine are all wired together. But, could you try something; disconnect the LED's, and relay, and try switching the chip alone. Let us know what happens. I'm just curious as to whether the Vf of the LED's might be screwing with something here.
I hate to say this but.....
Every time I see these posts it reassures me that I made the right choice in sticking with the old fashioned stacked 27C256 chips :-\
Quote from: digi2t on June 05, 2014, 10:05:53 PM
Insofar as the Vss/ground question, no it shouldn't. Mine are all wired together. But, could you try something; disconnect the LED's, and relay, and try switching the chip alone. Let us know what happens. I'm just curious as to whether the Vf of the LED's might be screwing with something here.
I never added the LED's and totally disconnected the relay switching to test by powering down in between changes but the same result.
Same results here with the led's and relay grounds disconnected. I'm learning as I go, as far as EPROMs and smd chips in general, so this has me quite stumped.
I did some more poking around and checked dc and ac voltages on pins A14-16 when switching and got the following:
DC
Pos.1: all=0V
Pos.2: A14=0V, A15=0V, A16=5.1V
Pos.3: A14=66mV, A15=5.1V, A16=0V
Pos.4: A14=0.41V, A15=5.1V, A16=5.1V
A14 seems suspect to me and I got the same reading tracing it to U15.
AC voltages were all consistent w/ DC as far as spec in the different positions. All seemed fine except A14 in Pos.3 again seemed low. Also all AC voltages peaked and dropped from their voltages when read, except A14 in position 4 was steady at 1.1V-AC. (and of course A14 position 3, which was next to nothing to begin with).
According to the datasheet, if I understand it correctly, the pins in question need to see a minimum of 0.4V
It's also odd to me that the readings seemed ok on position 2, which doesn't load and readings on position 3 seemed off and it loads as xp-200.
Again, I'm still making sense of this as I go but I just wanted to share my findings so maybe we can compare and narrow down what's going on. I'm still wondering if my eprom is definitely programming correctly, but have compared and verified it to the one in the gallery, so I'm assuming it's ok.
Quote from: OptiMitch Prime on June 06, 2014, 06:19:05 AM
I did some more poking around and checked dc and ac voltages on pins A14-16 when switching and got the following:
DC
Pos.1: all=0V
Pos.2: A14=0V, A15=0V, A16=5.1V
Pos.3: A14=66mV, A15=5.1V, A16=0V
Pos.4: A14=0.41V, A15=5.1V, A16=5.1V
Looking at the switching, it seems to me that you should be getting this;
Pos.1: all=0V
Pos.2: A14=0V, A15=0V, A16=5.1V
Pos.3: A14=
5.1V, A15=5.1V, A16=0V
Pos.4: A14=
5.1V, A15=5.1V, A16=5.1V
G_L, can you confirm that the switching scheme is the same for your unit? I'll double check mine tonight, including voltages.
Quote from: digi2t on June 06, 2014, 07:16:05 AM
G_L, can you confirm that the switching scheme is the same for your unit? I'll double check mine tonight, including voltages.
Sorry brother.... I never got into all that new-fangled switching and adapter board stuff :icon_mrgreen: :-\
Im still working with the 27C256 chips stacked. ::)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on June 06, 2014, 08:03:32 AM
Quote from: digi2t on June 06, 2014, 07:16:05 AM
G_L, can you confirm that the switching scheme is the same for your unit? I'll double check mine tonight, including voltages.
Sorry brother.... I never got into all that new-fangled switching and adapter board stuff :icon_mrgreen: :-\
Im still working with the 27C256 chips stacked. ::)
DOAH!! That's right. Sorry bro. I'll check my voltages tonight.
OK folks, try this. If you're using the double wafer switch, as per the build document, then swap A15, and A16 wires.
If you've followed the numbering from the build doc, then put A16 on pole 12, and A15 on pole 18.
Try that, and let me know what happens. I've just taken a long hard look at my unit, and it be that the connections may be misrepresented in the build doc. :icon_rolleyes:
Also, you should not be getting more than 5mV of leakage to a pole that is not in use. I tested all the poles on my switch, and I had one pole at 5mV. All the others were either 5V, or zero. If you're getting 0.41V, then I would check for bridges, or worse, a faulty switch.
Well, I'm happy to report;
IT'S ALIVE!!!!! Swapping those pins did the trick.
All modes working, all patches showing up where and how they should. (A bit more latency in the xp-100 mode than the other patches, but that's a smaller issue for another day). I forgot how awesome and inspirational the xp-300 is! Mine was stolen from my studio a few years ago and I now finally have a replacement along w/ the rest of the xp-series thanks to you all. Especially digi2t!! Thanks again!
I'll upload some pics of the finished build this weekend.
Well.... this is where I must "eat crow", and admit that I erred when I wrote the document. A minor error, but with major implications.
I've updated/corrected the build doc, and I've uploaded it to the Gallery. The link is;
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51209&g2_GALLERYSID=6b88adfe10ce00e5c7fef3373f3a8fd8 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51209&g2_GALLERYSID=6b88adfe10ce00e5c7fef3373f3a8fd8)
This should conclude that marmaliser's board is fine, and there shouldn't be any more XP-ALL+ build problems of the switching sort in the future.
I'll conclude by offering my profuse apologies for the error. Albeit a small error, I know it's caused big headaches for some. What can I say, shit happens, but at least we got to the bottom of it.
Maybe now I can convert G_L to a + version? :icon_lol:
Quote from: digi2t on June 07, 2014, 07:15:08 AM
Maybe now I can convert G_L to a + version? :icon_lol:
Some day brother.... some day! ::) :icon_mrgreen:
BTW.... I think I can speak for everyone here and say that there is no apology necessary! If it wasn't for you and your trailblazing..... none of these mods would have happened!!! :icon_cool:
I'm very glad to see this happened, I'll go and snag mine from the workbench and see if I can make it live again!
Quote from: Mojsisije on June 09, 2014, 06:43:09 AM
I'm very glad to see this happened, I'll go and snag mine from the workbench and see if I can make it live again!
If you were having the same switching problem, then swapping the A15/A16 wires at the switch should fix it. I thought that when I wired mine, that I did so sequentially with the switch numbering, and drew it as such. Apparently, this was not the case.
Be sure to dispose of the old build doc, and download the updated one.
Quote from: digi2t on June 09, 2014, 06:57:46 AM
If you were having the same switching problem, then swapping the A15/A16 wires at the switch should fix it. I thought that when I wired mine, that I did so sequentially with the switch numbering, and drew it as such. Apparently, this was not the case.
Be sure to dispose of the old build doc, and download the updated one.
Already downloaded the new one, thanks. I'm still reluctant to call this a victory for me though as I've tried something similar while doing the initial build because I saw some anomalies with the switching, but didn't really give it much attention. I'll post back once I have it done, sometime tomorrow I believe.
Yup, that did it, it works. I got a small heart attack at some point because it didn't go to the space station mode but got stuck in reverberator mode, then I realised I was too excited to properly solder everything and the common lead fell off.
Marmaliser get in here and do this, you've got a space station waiting for you.
Now as soon as I find my arduino board, I'll get around to making it all true bypass and switchable via the bypass switch, so stay tuned.
Don't forget everybody, please do a reset and calibration after the mod. This will ensure that everything works properly.
Great news, thanks to all.
Quote from: Mojsisije on June 11, 2014, 02:51:56 PM
Marmaliser get in here and do this, you've got a space station waiting for you.
Did someone shout me :)
I now have one fully working XP100 to XP All + (although slightly battered and bruised from all the things i tested so need to tidy it up). The other XP100 to XP all was behaving erratic and then I realised that the connection to the R30 SMD resistor pad had come off with all the messing around.
When I started out with these mods I hadn't realised that I was the first to attempt them from build docs so wasn't expecting the teething problems that you would expect with a new set of Docs. I learnt a heck of a lot.
Digi2t an Gvt Lacky I am truly gratefull, those XP300 tonaz were worth the effort. Honored also to have my board in the build docs
I now have a XP200 arriving today and some more adapter boards on the way from OSHPark
If anyone in the UK wants an XP All chip burning or anadapter board drop me a PM
Thanks again :)
Quote from: marmaliser on July 03, 2014, 04:45:16 AM
Digi2t an Gvt Lacky I am truly gratefull, those XP300 tonaz were worth the effort. Honored also to have my board in the build docs
You're very welcome bud. I'm just super happy that everything worked out. I'm VERY grateful for the efforts, and input from Mojsisije, OptiMitch Prime, and yourself. Without you guys pushing my buttons, I may have never found the wiring error. Tip of the community hat there. Actually, it just occurred to me that I never asked your permission to publish your board in the build doc... :icon_redface: Sorry. I'm glad you approve though.
QuoteIf anyone in the UK wants an XP All chip burning or an adapter board drop me a PM
That's super kind of you to offer the service. Class act, all the way!
Quote from: digi2t on June 11, 2014, 04:47:34 PM
Don't forget everybody, please do a reset and calibration after the mod.
My XP200 did indeed arrive today and before opening her up I tested it and the pedal made no change to pitch / speed / volume whatsoever. Thought the worst and then remembered your words re calibration. Bam 20 seconds later its working.
Quote from: marmaliser on July 03, 2014, 03:27:06 PM
Quote from: digi2t on June 11, 2014, 04:47:34 PM
Don't forget everybody, please do a reset and calibration after the mod.
My XP200 did indeed arrive today and before opening her up I tested it and the pedal made no change to pitch / speed / volume whatsoever. Thought the worst and then remembered your words re calibration. Bam 20 seconds later its working.
:icon_cool:
Quote from: marmaliser on July 03, 2014, 03:27:06 PM
My XP200 did indeed arrive today and before opening her up I tested it and the pedal made no change to pitch / speed / volume whatsoever. Thought the worst and then remembered your words re calibration. Bam 20 seconds later its working.
If I had a dollar for every one that I picked up sold as "Broken" and this happened.........
I'd have at least 6 or 7 dollars! ::)
Hello all,
I just joined this site because I'm looking to get one of these pedals for my son this Christmas. He is very interested in playing music and guitars and stuff and has started getting quite a few pedals in the past couple years. One of his favorite bands Tera Melos uses one of these pedals and he's been going nuts over it. I've been researching over the past week to see if I can get one for him but noticed they are pretty expensive. I emailed a couple people but haven't heard anything and have been stumbling deeper into these kind of forum sites.
Anyways long story short I wanted to know if anyone here would be willing to build one if I bought and shipped the necessary parts to you and had it shipped back once complete. Obviously I'd pay you for your time and work. I also understand if this kind of thing is frowned upon to ask for here so if that's the case just let me know and I'll go and look around at other places.
Thanks!
Spencer.
I should add that he's looking for the space station pedal, not necessarily the 4 in 1 mod!
PM sent fastatlast ;)
Hello everyone,
I've just registered and am really happy to have found this thread/topic. I've been hunting for the SS at an affordable price for quite a while now but it seems impossible to get hold of one here where I'm living (Poland).
The good news is an XP200 Modulator is up for grabs at a very good price, so I'm thinking of doing this mod to an XP300 myself. The thing is I'm not an electronics geek and would need the help and guidance in this process. I'm not interested in neither having both XP200 and XP300 in one box, nor the XP1000 (XP-all). All I want is to have the SS.
Is there anyone out there willing to help me out, specify what parts/things I need to buy and where to get the SS program for the chip?
Would be much obliged.
Cheers!
Philip
@PhilipP
Send me a PM and I will give you the details. ;)
Thanks Greg. Philip as PM'd me and supplying him with an XP300 is no problem. Nor anyone else in EI for that matter
Quote from: marmaliser on August 24, 2014, 04:13:52 PM
Thanks Greg. Philip as PM'd me and supplying him with an XP300 is no problem. Nor anyone else in EI for that matter
Great! I figures it would be better for him to contact you since you are considerably closer than any of the other "usual suspects" who have experience with these ;D
Anyone happen to have a 27C256-10 or -12 EPROM that I can "procure" from you? I really need one FAST! :icon_eek:
PM me if you can help!!
Nevermind. I ended up ordering some. More than I need :-\
greetings!
presently new to the message board community, and really only here for one purpose: my aim is to modify my xp100 to the xp300. i'm not terribly interested in having the all-in-one mod, but just the xp300.
from reading these posts, and looking at the build guide by Govmnt_Lacky and digi2t, it seems that the most difficult piece to acquire is the programmed EPROM chip. now, i really have no knowledge of working with pedals, or even soldering in general. a mate of mine was going to be doing the labour for me. so, i was wondering if someone would be so kind as to program a chip for me, and post it to me. preferably someone in the UK or EU, as i live in ireland.
am i right in assuming that the rest of the pieces are pretty easy to come by/affordable? it appears all i need is the chip itself, some ram and the 'smd device' which i have no idea what that is! also, to only perform the xp300 mod how much ram would i need? how many smd devices?
any and all help appreciated!
@brendamned
PM'd ;)
EDIT: Sorry.. dont know how new you are. PM'd means check your private messages. The link is in the upper left side of your screen ;)
@brendamned
The first thing you need to do is open up your XP100 (four screws on the bottom) and take a picture and upload it here. There are two different XP100's and the process to modify is a little different.
@greg - Where are you getting ram chips from atm.. u-barn don't appear to have any
EDIT Just picked some up from utsource -hope they will be good
Quote from: marmaliser on October 09, 2014, 02:13:21 PM
@brendamned
The first thing you need to do is open up your XP100 (four screws on the bottom) and take a picture and upload it here. There are two different XP100's and the process to modify is a little different.
@greg - Where are you getting ram chips from atm.. u-barn don't appear to have any
EDIT Just picked some up from utsource -hope they will be good
Good call on the XP100 type ;) I already sent a list to him via PM. It can be modified depending on which type he has. More than likely, he has the type with the program in the CPU mask.
As for the RAM chips... I fish on eBay just like you ;)
@brendamned
Open the back of your XP100. If you see an EPROM chip in there like the one below then post here and I will amend my list for you. IT will most likely have a white sticker on it that says XP100 V1.1
(http://media.futureelectronics.com/semiconductors/memory/eprom/otp-eprom/M27C256B-90B6-STM-FNT-MED.JPG?m=7V9xkb)
@ marmaliser;
DO NOT BUY THE RAM CHIPS FOR UTSOURCE!! I REPEAT... DO NOT BUY THE RAM FROM UTSOURCE!!
I bought ten of them a while back, and every single one was bogus. As a matter of fact, I still have them, all neatly arranged on a piece of foam, which I keep them beside my monitor. I shit you not. They are there to remind me of my gaff, whenever I think that I might be getting a great deal.
The fact that they all sported the same production number should have been a dead give away. :icon_evil: If they are marked "NEC Japan", be wary. The ones that I've used to date, which work, are marked "NEC Ireland", and the production numbers are all different.
Greg can guide you to a kosher place to buy. I believe Mouser has a suitable equivalent.
Hey, just found this;
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-pcs-UPD41464C-10-DRAM-65536-4-Bit-100ns-Memory-D41464-41464C-10-NMOS-NEC-NEW-/130891206445 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-pcs-UPD41464C-10-DRAM-65536-4-Bit-100ns-Memory-D41464-41464C-10-NMOS-NEC-NEW-/130891206445)
Quote from: digi2t on October 09, 2014, 07:05:15 PM
@ marmaliser;
DO NOT BUY THE RAM CHIPS FOR UTSOURCE!! I REPEAT... DO NOT BUY THE RAM FROM UTSOURCE!!
Bugger, oh well lets see what turns up. I may also end up with neat pile of duds next to my monitor
UTSCOURCE CHIPS WORKED !!
They arrived and are marked Ireland :) Stuck 4 in an XP100 XPALL + and they works fine
Cheap as er chips as well so fill ya boots ... YMMV
@marmaliser
Thanks for the tip! ;)
@To Whom it May Concern
I have now received 4 PMs from new subscribers requesting that I quote them a price to do a conversion for them in which I took the time to return their PM and kindly offer to work things out with them ONLY to have them NEVER reply. :icon_evil:
Please... take the time to consider that these mods require SEVERAL obselete parts and require quite a bit of time to perform so....... this is not going to be a $20 cheap-o mod to do! If you really, really want the XP300 SS... you can either pay the $300-500 price tag that they now fetch on resale sites -OR- you can pay much less by having someone here mod it for you. BUT PLEASE DO NOT think that it is AT ALL cheap, easy, or non-time consuming. If you feel this way... there are documents here that YOU can use to do the mods yourself to get a better "appreciation" of what it all entails!
I now climb down from my soapbox.... ::)
'Mission Control, the XP300 is finally up and running. No faults or mishaps whatsoever. All systems go. Get ready for one hell of a trip!
Over and out.'
(http://i61.tinypic.com/3450z21.jpg)
PS: Kudos and a huge THANK YOU goes to Greg and Mick 'marmaliser'. Your help is much appreciated!
Philip.
Good work Phil.....glad it worked out
Well I finally had the time to perform the conversion and it doesn't work, of course.
The effects are drowned in a sea of noise and some kind of very low , very lo-fi ring modulation, but you can somehow hear that the pedal and the presets affect the sound somehow (especially with the S/H presets, I can hear it very clearly)
So, what might be the problem? I have a XP-200, I added the tantalum caps and the RAM,am I missisng something else?
I had 2 EPROMS programmed with the BIN file and both have the same sonic result. Could the code be corrupted? could I still hear something of an effect if the code was not OK?
Could it be the RAM? mine are labeled NEC USA, and I bought it from alliexpress in China...
here are some pics, maybe someone can spot something... Thank id advance!
MONGO
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/equipos/IMG_0621_zpsd834a22e.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/equipos/IMG_0621_zpsd834a22e.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/equipos/IMG_0623_zps43ed8303.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/equipos/IMG_0623_zps43ed8303.jpg.html)
Couple of things to try to help find the problems.
#1: Try a factory reset. It should be in the build documents.
If that does not work then.....
- Make sure the RAM chips are fully seated in the sockets. I have had issues with the spring sockets and the RAM chips "popping" up in the past. PUSH THOSE BUGGERS DOWN FULLY!
- With the XP300 chip installed and all RAM chips in..... make sure that you can cycle through and see ALL 40 XP300 program numbers in the display. Don't worry about the sound or function yet.
- Check to make sure you installed the NEW tantalum caps properly (oriented right?)
Next steps:
- Remove ALL of the new RAM chips (leave in the IRELAND chip)
- Remove the XP300 EPROM and replace it with the original XP200 EPROM
Verify that the pedal is working 100% with the Modulator programs. Check that ALL of the presets sound correct.
If that is all good, then my bet is that you got 1 or more dud RAM chips from China :-\
I'm putting my money on dud RAM. I would not buy RAM from China. EVER. AGAIN. I got burned once, and that was that. What you're describing sonically sounds like what my unit was doing when I plugged in the dud RAM.
Check out Jamesco, they carry them, at a very reasonable price. They're pulls, but to me, a pull means that at least it was in something that worked before. Besides, shipping times will be shorter, and returns/refunds will be easier to deal with.
Insofar as the bin file is concerned, if you're using the files that I uploaded to the gallery, there should not be a problem. I've used all those files without issue. I'm curious though, after you burn a chip, have you done a verification check to ensure that the code matches? If it does, then it shouldn't be the eprom (code-wise). My chip burner's GUI has an automated feature, first a blank check, then burn, and the last check is a code verification after burning. If it matches, then it's OK, if not, it reports an error.
I will try it tomorrow and report! thanks for the answers!
Any luck finding GOOD Ram in Europe? I'm tired of shipping costs killing me :)
Did the RAM test: the modulator works. They sold me duds! can't believe it, I'm so angry!
So, where to get good RAM now..?
Quote from: mongo on February 16, 2015, 09:16:12 AM
Did the RAM test: the modulator works. They sold me duds! can't believe it, I'm so angry!
So, where to get good RAM now..?
Just to be sure, did you try exchanging the suspect RAM with the known good one? That should validate whether the RAM is actually at fault. Pull one good RAM, insert a suspect one, and test the patches for audio quality.
Buying dud Chinese RAM happened to me as well. I bought 10 of them, thinking it was a deal, and I would stock up. They were all duds. I kept them, and they sit quietly on the shipping foam, next to my computer now. I keep them there, as a constant reminder to verify my supply sources before buying.
If you happen to know anyone locally with any Commodore 64 motherboards kicking around, you might get lucky, and find some good 41464's from those.
I have 2 good RAM chips (I have another XP unit) and I tried exchanging chips several times and it was more or less noisy, yeah, I think I got ripped off. I happen to have a commodore 64 just lying aroung, I'll try to see if I can salvage some goodies from the motherboard, thanks for the tip!
Opened my commodore, no dice, no good ol' 41464 inside :icon_frown:
PM sent re the ram
Just a quick thought...
Try to meter out the sockets for the added RAM. It would be a shame to buy new chips and find out you had a cold/bad solder joint.
Food for thought.
I've been very busy since last week, I hope to update the status of my mod this weekend
Searching somo info for the ram on comodore and amiga 1000 websites.
here some compatible rams.
http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/RAM/Herstellercodes
Quote from: mongo on February 25, 2015, 08:37:55 AM
I've been very busy since last week, I hope to update the status of my mod this weekend
Any update on this?
Quote from: Swamp on March 17, 2015, 07:53:03 AM
Searching somo info for the ram on comodore and amiga 1000 websites.
here some compatible rams.
http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/RAM/Herstellercodes
Cheers! And thanks for the link ;)
tested today some of the chips I bought last year for this Xp-all Project.
NEC USA D41464C-10 8937VA91 OKAY
I tested one of the XP200 I have and it sound like shit, the modulated sound is very distorted.
The signal enter okay in the ADC, and get´s out bad from the DAC.
The DAC is a CS4330 from Cirus logic, obsolete now.
http://floe.butterbrot.org/matrix/hacking/limp/docs/cs4330.pdf
After some search the equivalent is an CS4338 by cirus logic too.
http://www.cirrus.com/jp/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4334-5-8-9_F6.pdf
Really hope its the DAC that is faulty.
Those chip are prety cheep, maybe it can be a improvement on the xp sound. I will see.
UPDATE
used the DAC and ADC from another unit. and they are okay.
Anyone had this problem with any XP family pedal?
and more...
To have an output Volume control.
Why not making the same as done on the Line6 DL-4?
a pot in the place of r27 and r18 to control the gain of the output opamp U5
or maybe changing r25 and r23.
Not interested in making such mod, but i can try.
I'm getting my XP-100 -> XP-ALL+ build started and have a likely simple question - from what I can tell from the doc, the only wiring from the main PCB to the EEPROM adapter board is the two for R30, correct? The 5V that I pull near the regulator goes to the switch and provides + for the LEDs, and VSS from the adapter PCB is ground, used at the switch as well as the LEDs. The wires from the MC34064P connect to the 6P4T. A14/15/16 from the adapter go to the switch for switching firmware from the EEPROM.
Quote from: slacker775 on May 26, 2015, 04:00:43 PM
I'm getting my XP-100 -> XP-ALL+ build started and have a likely simple question - from what I can tell from the doc, the only wiring from the main PCB to the EEPROM adapter board is the two for R30, correct? The 5V that I pull near the regulator goes to the switch and provides + for the LEDs, and VSS from the adapter PCB is ground, used at the switch as well as the LEDs. The wires from the MC34064P connect to the 6P4T. A14/15/16 from the adapter go to the switch for switching firmware from the EEPROM.
Vss connects only to the side of the switch that will relate to A14/15/16. I'm not sure if mixing/using it with the chassis ground will affect anything. I believe digital stuff tends to be fussy when it comes to grounds, and I can remember if Vss comms with the chassis ground too. Use the chassis to ground your LED's instead, just in case.
This is what I think, but Greg will chirp in to correct me if I'm wrong. He's been around the block a few times with these builds.
Everything else reads correct to my eyes. The diagram in the build doc is pretty clear, but if there's anything that can be improved, don't be shy to point it out. The document, as is life, is always a work in progress. :icon_wink:
The VSS stuff did sound fishy to me, but I think the way it's worded in the doc may be unclear. For chassis ground, there is a pin off the adapter that I should be able to use then if I'm not mistaken.
Quote from: slacker775 on May 27, 2015, 06:49:14 AM
The VSS stuff did sound fishy to me, but I think the way it's worded in the doc may be unclear. For chassis ground, there is a pin off the adapter that I should be able to use then if I'm not mistaken.
If you could, please PM me the offending wording, and I'll see to clarifying (to the best of my abilities).
Cheers.
Admittedly, I haven't read this whole thread, but I've searched and can't find an answer:
Is there any sub for the J113 jfet? I think it's the only thing that I am missing. If it's used for switching then I assume a j201, 2n5457, or 2sk30a should be ok?
Quote from: the3secondrule on May 30, 2015, 08:36:42 PM
Admittedly, I haven't read this whole thread, but I've searched and can't find an answer:
Is there any sub for the J113 jfet? I think it's the only thing that I am missing. If it's used for switching then I assume a j201, 2n5457, or 2sk30a should be ok?
I have only used the J113 so I could not say. They are still in production and are very easy to come by.
If you need any, PM me here or at MBP and I 'll see what I can do ;)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 30, 2015, 08:45:28 PM
Quote from: the3secondrule on May 30, 2015, 08:36:42 PM
Admittedly, I haven't read this whole thread, but I've searched and can't find an answer:
Is there any sub for the J113 jfet? I think it's the only thing that I am missing. If it's used for switching then I assume a j201, 2n5457, or 2sk30a should be ok?
I have only used the J113 so I could not say. They are still in production and are very easy to come by.
If you need any, PM me here or at MBP and I 'll see what I can do ;)
Thanks man,
If I can't find a local solution, I'll hit you up! I'm in New Zealand, but I don't imagine postage on a couple of FETs will kill me ;)
J
I got mine from mklec on eBay. Not sure how their shipping to NZ might be.
$20 shipping on $5 worth of FETs from Mklec...
Lost of cheaper options on the bay though.
Check Nightfire Electronics. They stock them, and I think the shipping might be more reasonable. Choose a quantity for the cart, fill out your shipping info, and scroll down to the "Click to calculate shipping" button.
Thanks Dino,
Shipping from Nightfire was much more reasonable
J
Quote from: the3secondrule on June 02, 2015, 07:11:12 AM
Thanks Dino,
Shipping from Nightfire was much more reasonable
J
Glad I could help. :icon_biggrin:
Well, I finally had time to go back to this, got replacement RAM (I bought RAM from China that COULD be duds) from a respectable seller in the US, and the result is the same: clean bypass, distorted output, digital noise, th hint of effects in the faraway background etc.
So, I've oficially reached a dead en here. I assumed it was just bad RAM but now I'm sure it's not only that. I've checked and double checked cap orientation and solder from the RAM sockets and everything seems to be in order.
Could it be that the EPROMS were not burned correctly? how to check it? some guy did it for me and I don't have access to another EPROM burner.
Any hints or help are greatly appreciated.
M+
Quote from: mongo on June 23, 2015, 09:19:20 AM
Any hints or help are greatly appreciated.
Post some pics of your mod. One quick thing you can do is to turn on the pedal (any mode) and test your voltage regulators to make sure they are outputting the right voltages.
Did you try a factory reset?
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on June 23, 2015, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: mongo on June 23, 2015, 09:19:20 AM
Any hints or help are greatly appreciated.
Post some pics of your mod. One quick thing you can do is to turn on the pedal (any mode) and test your voltage regulators to make sure they are outputting the right voltages.
Did you try a factory reset?
Need to scroll through the thread to remember the factory reset, Pics are here, It's a XP400, nothing fancy, I just want an XP300, not interested in the other XP thingies. Volume mod not implemented yet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/equipos/IMG_1083_zpsf2ikwgmw.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/equipos/IMG_1083_zpsf2ikwgmw.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/equipos/IMG_1082_zpsiailypif.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/equipos/IMG_1082_zpsiailypif.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/equipos/IMG_1081_zps5rsfv2eg.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/equipos/IMG_1081_zps5rsfv2eg.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/equipos/IMG_1080_zpswtwjm9ge.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/equipos/IMG_1080_zpswtwjm9ge.jpg.html)
Just from looking at the last pic you posted, I can see that the far right RAM chip (D41464-10 closest to the EEPROM) is NOT seated properly in the leaf socket. Also, that is the ONLY one of the RAM chips that is strictly used by the XP300 chipset.
I would carefully remove that RAM chip, check the chip for improperly bent legs and check the leaf spring IC holder for damage, then carefully reseat the RAM chip into the socket. BE SURE that it is sitting ALL THE WAY down in the socket. (They should ALL look like the far LEFT chip in the picture... that one is seated properly)
After this, do a reset and you will probably get it fixed 8)
Well, NO DICE. I reseated all the chips, swapped them around and nothing. After that I tried the other XP300 EPROM I have and it produces the same distorted noise with faint hints of effects in the distant background. One thing I noticed just now is the the presets ony go up to 40 and then back to 1. Odd. I swapped to the original EPROM (XP200, I stated incorectly before that it was a XP400) and it works perfectly.
I guess the EPROMS are not ok? What do you think?
Thanks in advance!
Mongo
Quote from: mongo on June 25, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
Well, NO DICE. I reseated all the chips, swapped them around and nothing. After that I tried the other XP300 EPROM I have and it produces the same distorted noise with faint hints of effects in the distant background. One thing I noticed just now is the the presets ony go up to 40 and then back to 1. Odd. I swapped to the original EPROM (XP200, I stated incorectly before that it was a XP400) and it works perfectly.
I guess the EPROMS are not ok? What do you think?
Thanks in advance!
Mongo
I am confused by this....
You mention that one of the EEPROM presets only went to 40. The XP300 has 40 presets in it.
If the XP200 EEPROM works perfectly when installed, then the problem can only be the RAM chips (specifically U16, U17, and U18), their sockets, or the XP300 EEPROM or it's socket.
BTW... here is how the presets are numbered for each pedal:
XP100 = 01-29
XP200 = 1-61 (skipping all numbers ending in 7, 8, 9, and 0)
XP300 = 1-40
XP400 = 1-50 (skipping all numbers ending in 9)
The eprom could be verified by doing a read comparison with the .bin file. If there was any corruption, a compare read would reveal it. I always do a compare read before I use a chip, since I've had the occasional corruption issue in the past. Only once or twice mind you, but it's aggravating nonetheless.
One thing that worries me is the ram, specifically the two right most units. I notice that they are stamped with identical serial numbers. This brings back bad memories of the ram I bought from a Chinese supplier. 10 ram chips, all identical numbers. None worked.
Did you try swapping back to the 200 eprom, and then test all the ram with that?
Quote from: digi2t on June 25, 2015, 12:36:24 PM
Did you try swapping back to the 200 eprom, and then test all the ram with that?
I concur ;)
After re-reading... the fact that you get even "distant" effects (and I assume they are the right effects for the preset numbers) tells me that the EEPROM is probably good.... just probably.
Definitely focus on the RAM chips (U16, 17, and 18) and go from there as Dino mentions above ;) Swap each one into U19 slot and try with the XP200 EEPROM.
Ok, I'll try the RAM swap and report back. I don't have the means to test the EEPROMS, a guy burn them for me and I don't have a programmer or anything.
I assumed the XP300 had more than 40 presets :D
Thank you for your answers!
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on June 23, 2015, 11:21:59 AM
that is the ONLY one of the RAM chips that is strictly used by the XP300 chipset.
Can you tell me wich RAM chips are used for each xp mode?
I don't have the doc in front of me but if I remember correctly, the XP-100 only uses the leftmost RAM chip and the other three models use all four RAM banks.
Quote from: slacker775 on June 25, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
I don't have the doc in front of me but if I remember correctly, the XP-100 only uses the leftmost RAM chip and the other three models use all four RAM banks.
According to the schematics;
XP-100 and XP200 - U19 (leftmost) only.
XP-300 - U19, U18, U17, and U16.
XP- 400 - U19, U18, and U17 only.
When converting an XP-100 (or 200 for that matter), there's a greater risk of running into ram problems i.e. bad sockets, ram, solder joints, etc. than with a 400.
Thanks!
Well tried all the RAM I had , same results. It's SO frustrating to be this close to have a working XP300 and not being able to figure out what is wrong with the mod... :P
for reference, here's a pic of the RAM I have, on the right, RAM bought from China, on the left, RAM bought in the USA:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/IMG_1099_zps59k6avba.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mongobigmuff/media/IMG_1099_zps59k6avba.jpg.html)
and here is a video of my mod in action:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/th_IMG_1101_zpsjqutehxd.mp4) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/mongobigmuff/IMG_1101_zpsjqutehxd.mp4)
Is that video with the XP200 chip installed and only U19 populated as discussed in the post above?
No, that's a video of the XP300 chip installed and all the ram slots filled. Same unit with XP200 chip works normally, even with all the ram chips in.
Mongo
I would try it with the XP200 chip and a ram chip in only the U19 socket, swap ram chips in the U19 socket until you find 4 that work, then at least you know you have 4 good ram chips.
Quote from: slacker on July 01, 2015, 11:13:09 AM
I would try it with the XP200 chip and a ram chip in only the U19 socket, swap ram chips in the U19 socket until you find 4 that work, then at least you know you have 4 good ram chips.
Yep! That's what Dino and I were suggesting earlier.
I finally got me xp-all completed but I have a slight odd problem. For background, I burned my own eeprom, the switch seems to be working right, the appropriate LEDs light up and the program's seem to switch properly. What I am not getting is any effect output. I did not yet do the output volume mod. I get dry signal on the 100, 200, and 400 modes but nothing out of 300. Tuner, bypass, calibration modes all seem to work as expected. Could it be the eeprom? Perhaps the wiring around r30? Any suggestions?
Quote from: slacker775 on July 03, 2015, 06:36:49 PM
I finally got me xp-all completed but I have a slight odd problem. For background, I burned my own eeprom, the switch seems to be working right, the appropriate LEDs light up and the program's seem to switch properly. What I am not getting is any effect output. I did not yet do the output volume mod. I get dry signal on the 100, 200, and 400 modes but nothing out of 300. Tuner, bypass, calibration modes all seem to work as expected. Could it be the eeprom? Perhaps the wiring around r30? Any suggestions?
Suggestion = Pics ;)
First of all... when the mod is working, and even without the output volume mod, you should NOT get dry signal out of ANY of the XP modes (except the XP100 and only when you do the super duper Dino relay mod) When in XP100 mode, you should only get wet output from one of the jacks and nothing from the other. When in the other 3 modes, you should get effected output on both jacks. The only time you should get dry signal is in BP mode.
Tuner and Calibration mode are all functions of the CPU. Not the EEPROM.
Which pedal did you mod? Throw up a good pic of the full mod and we will see. ;)
EDIT: Throw up the pics. Need to see WHICH mod you did and how it was done.
Ok, I did the xp-all mod from an xp-100 base. It sounds like perhaps I might want to reload the eeprom. Here are some pics:
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/15e806cd76ade333cc3eb357620c263e.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/aea922da36502f83fc10c2b4a0ff5fc3.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/c27f701d635480dc534d5248c986adea.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/12b296be73982f4158a52442458e2355.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/794f3e1c824f0e8e8029ba9f2c6f75c2.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/bd3f026f3b80f73af4845abc42a87d87.jpg)
OK... full disclosure.... I have not yet done a mod with the 1001 chip. I always do them with the EEPROMs stacked and no Dry signal when in 100 mode.
Now... with that... some suggestions:
1) Definitely make sure your rotary wiring is correct. Verify each and every wire is going where it is supposed to go.
2) Check for a constant short on your R30 wires. This could definitely cause you to get dry signal out of the left output (when looking down at the pedal from top) when in all of the modes.
3) That left-most RAM chip looks odd. Never seen one like that before. I will be curious to see how the different RAM speeds will interact (when you get it all up and running)
Check these and let us know ;)
The leftmost ram chip is the one that came with the unit. The other 3 are ebays from China and could certainly be suspect. I'll verify that r30 isn't shorted. I did use the little via for one of the wires that happens to be next to r30. I verified conductivity beforehand so I think that should be ok
R30 should ONLY be shorted when in XP100 mode. On the other modes, the continuity between those 2 wires should be OPEN.
DUDE!!!!!!!
WHERE IS C63? :o 390nF
Just noticed this. You have to have that installed for the pedal to work! 8)
I do have continuity at r30 though with no power to the pedal. Def no shorts, but not sure how the relay would be in that situation. As for c63, I did notice that but forgot to ask. I know it's marked in one of the pics, but what actually goes there I don't think was covered in the doc. I'll give that another look-see
Quote from: slacker775 on July 03, 2015, 09:07:35 PM
I do have continuity at r30 though with no power to the pedal. Def no shorts, but not sure how the relay would be in that situation. As for c63, I did notice that but forgot to ask. I know it's marked in one of the pics, but what actually goes there I don't think was covered in the doc. I'll give that another look-see
The only time you should see continuity through R30 is when it is in XP100 mode. PERIOD. If you are seeing continuity with no power... and in every mode on the rotary... you have a problem there.
Without C63 installed, you will NEVER get an effected signal in the stereo output (except in XP100 mode, when properly working... in which case it will only be dry signal)
Shoot, c63 is the .390 cap. I'll put that in tomorrow and double check r30
Almost thought I didn't have any 390 caps but it turns out I did get some when I was going thru the BOM for the xp-all. I put that in at C63, and disconnected one of the wires to R30 (I'm thinking it may be a bum relay since I have continuity at all switch positions, even with power off). With the relay out of the mix, I do not have continuity between the two R30 solder points.
The good news is - it's working! I'll check the other relays that came in my batch and see if they all are wonky or what, but that's not a big show-stopper.
Quote from: slacker775 on July 04, 2015, 11:09:05 AM
The good news is - it's working! I'll check the other relays that came in my batch and see if they all are wonky or what, but that's not a big show-stopper.
Awesome! Another XP ALL is born... :icon_lol:
Ok, I tried ram chips with the XP 200 and the 4 ram chips I tested WORKED with the XP200. Switched to the XP300 EEPROM and the noise and nastyness are back.
Sooo, time to dismount the PCB AGAIN and test continuity and the soldering of the chips sockets, other than that, I'm out of ideas.
Mongo
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on July 01, 2015, 08:25:25 PM
Quote from: slacker on July 01, 2015, 11:13:09 AM
I would try it with the XP200 chip and a ram chip in only the U19 socket, swap ram chips in the U19 socket until you find 4 that work, then at least you know you have 4 good ram chips.
Yep! That's what Dino and I were suggesting earlier.
Quote from: mongo on July 05, 2015, 09:13:09 AM
Sooo, time to dismount the PCB AGAIN and test continuity and the soldering of the chips sockets, other than that, I'm out of ideas.
Simple... if you don't find a soldering problem with the U16, 17, or 18 chip sockets then it looks like your XP300 EEPROM is a dud :icon_frown:
EDIT: Just remember, the XP200 programs ONLY use the U19 RAM chip. So, if you did not swap in each individual RAM chip into the U19 spot when you were testing with the XP200 EEPROM then you really did not verify each and every RAM. You would need to install the XP200 EEPROM and try only 1 of the RAM in U19 and leave the others unpopulated and test. If good, then swap in a different RAM into U19 and test. Repeat until all of the RAM chips are tested. If all of the RAM work, by themselves, witht he XP200 chip.... then your XP300 EEPROM is bad.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on July 05, 2015, 10:12:12 AM
Quote from: mongo on July 05, 2015, 09:13:09 AM
Sooo, time to dismount the PCB AGAIN and test continuity and the soldering of the chips sockets, other than that, I'm out of ideas.
Simple... if you don't find a soldering problem with the U16, 17, or 18 chip sockets then it looks like your XP300 EEPROM is a dud :icon_frown:
EDIT: Just remember, the XP200 programs ONLY use the U19 RAM chip. So, if you did not swap in each individual RAM chip into the U19 spot when you were testing with the XP200 EEPROM then you really did not verify each and every RAM. You would need to install the XP200 EEPROM and try only 1 of the RAM in U19 and leave the others unpopulated and test. If good, then swap in a different RAM into U19 and test. Repeat until all of the RAM chips are tested. If all of the RAM work, by themselves, witht he XP200 chip.... then your XP300 EEPROM is bad.
I did exactly that: test every RAM chip in the U19 slot with the XP200 EEPROM. It worked everytime. I'll check out my soldering and continuity and report back. Thanks!
Quote from: mongo on July 05, 2015, 05:39:36 PM
I did exactly that: test every RAM chip in the U19 slot with the XP200 EEPROM. It worked everytime. I'll check out my soldering and continuity and report back. Thanks!
Cool!
So, it is either a soldering mistake on the U16, U17, and/or U18 sockets -OR- the XP300 EEPROM is bad (my bet)
Good Luck
Wont have time to test before a week I think, in the meantime, could someone here re-burn my EEPROMS in case those are the problem? or test them at least?
Thanx!
Mongo
Quote from: mongo on July 06, 2015, 11:34:57 AM
Wont have time to test before a week I think, in the meantime, could someone here re-burn my EEPROMS in case those are the problem? or test them at least?
Thanx!
Mongo
I can do that, but I'm in Canada. If interested, PM me.
I could do it BUT... I'm in the US and shipping might be prohibitive.
Maybe try "marmaliser" I believe he can burn chips and is in the EU as well. Worth a shot ;)
I've searched pretty thoroughly and didn't find an answer, but apologies if I've missed it:
Is there any reason to specifically use Tantalum caps over any other type of polarised cap (electrolytics)??
Cheers,
J
Long term stability I believe.
OK. I have finished my xp100 to XP ALL+, with a PCB, RAM chips and Eprom from Marmaliser.
I am getting no output at all, except from the dry only Jack in XP100 mode only.
When I rotate the switch, the display changes but it is garbled nonsense.
When switching to / from XP 100 mode I can hear the relay switching
My XP100 was one without U8 populated, so that has been installed.
I have soldered the XP all+ PCB directly to the main PCB, which makes checking my soldering rather difficult.
Obviously you'll want photo's, what do you need to see specifically?
I have triple checked my wiring, however it's entirely likely I still don't have it 100%.
I'll get voltages as well - what chips do you need voltages from?
I notice my pedal does not have r47 populated. some photos in the build doc show this resistor in place, and in others it is not.
Let me know what you need from me for de-bugging.
Cheers all!
Quote from: the3secondrule on July 09, 2015, 06:28:03 AM
I notice my pedal does not have r47 populated. some photos in the build doc show this resistor in place, and in others it is not.
I believe this is probably your problem HOWEVER, throw up some good pics of the mod (make sure to take good ones of your EEPROM area, RAM area, the CPU [the chip that says Digitech on it], and all of your wiring)
We will get you working ;)
Heres a few pics - let me know if you need to see more.
(also if someone can let me know how to resize these Massive photos???
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19219628/xp100/IMG_3208.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19219628/xp100/IMG_3211.JPG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19219628/xp100/IMG_3212.JPG)
You need to put a 10 ohm SMD resistor in R47 ;)
Without it, the CPU does not know to look for an external EEPROM at all! :icon_eek:
EDIT: Can you post up a better pic of how you wired R30? Also a better pic of U13.
Thanks G Lacky,
I'll see if I can attach a resistor in R47 and see if that helps.
Interesting that some of this pics in the build guide show this resistor un-populated too though...
Will try and get some better pics tonight too
:)
R47 did it :)
I don't have any SMD parts so I just had to tack a resistor on to the pads. Ain't pretty but it works :D
Quote from: the3secondrule on July 10, 2015, 06:23:17 PM
R47 did it :)
I don't have any SMD parts so I just had to tack a resistor on to the pads. Ain't pretty but it works :D
Sweet!
And another XP ALL lives!!
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on July 10, 2015, 08:21:07 PM
Quote from: the3secondrule on July 10, 2015, 06:23:17 PM
R47 did it :)
I don't have any SMD parts so I just had to tack a resistor on to the pads. Ain't pretty but it works :D
Sweet!
And another XP ALL lives!!
Bravo!! 8)
Fantastic ;D
Thanks Dino & Lackey for the extremely well documented project, and Marmaliser for sorting me out with the EPROM and other bits :D
Didn't see any mention of r47 in the build doc, did I over look this?
Quote from: the3secondrule on July 11, 2015, 05:08:41 PM
Thanks Dino & Lackey for the extremely well documented project, and Marmaliser for sorting me out with the EPROM and other bits :D
Didn't see any mention of r47 in the build doc, did I over look this?
I'll have a look and see, but it might be an oversight. The problem right now is that the gallery is full, and I can't update the present document.
Hopefully, Aron will have this sorted out soon.
Finallly... SUCESS!! After banging my head for days and days I meticulously checked out every step of the conversion from XP200 to 300... I had a cold trace between some of the ramchips. The thing works now.
To all the people trying these mods: TRIPLE CHECK EVERYTHING! the trace didn't seem broken or damaged in any way! so check and recheck everything so every possible problem is sorted out beforehand.
Thank you very much to all the people here for all the support and advice!
Mongo.
Quote from: mongo on July 29, 2015, 05:04:25 AM
Finallly... SUCESS!! After banging my head for days and days I meticulously checked out every step of the conversion from XP200 to 300... I had a cold trace between some of the ramchips. The thing works now.
To all the people trying these mods: TRIPLE CHECK EVERYTHING! the trace didn't seem broken or damaged in any way! so check and recheck everything so every possible problem is sorted out beforehand.
Thank you very much to all the people here for all the support and advice!
Mongo.
Great news indeed!
Nice that you found it, because when problem builds do crop up, it always sets a doubt in my head that maybe we missed something, or that there is some weird board version that we don't know about. I can relax... for now. ;D
Great catch Mongo!!!
I recently had a conversion that was driving me mad. Turned out the culprit was an internally shorted IC socket :icon_eek:
Yep.... One of the RAM sockets I used was shorted from Pin 17 to 18 inside the socket..... How does that happen? :icon_evil:
Gentlemen, I'll be modding my XP100 as soon as my chip burner comes in from china. I got it for christmas of '94 I think. It's been collecting dust ever since, ha.
Anyway, I just wanted to post a small typo in the document. Page 20 under "So, we need to desolder the holes for:" "- C61, C64, C65 (10uF), and Q63 (0.39uF)"
Q63 needs to be C63. That one took me for a spin the first time I saw it and took me a minute to figure it out lol. Anyway, I'll post back when I get it done. Thanks for the great info.
Quote from: mitchschaft on August 29, 2015, 09:27:40 PM
Gentlemen, I'll be modding my XP100 as soon as my chip burner comes in from china. I got it for christmas of '94 I think. It's been collecting dust ever since, ha.
Anyway, I just wanted to post a small typo in the document. Page 20 under "So, we need to desolder the holes for:" "- C61, C64, C65 (10uF), and Q63 (0.39uF)"
Q63 needs to be C63. That one took me for a spin the first time I saw it and took me a minute to figure it out lol. Anyway, I'll post back when I get it done. Thanks for the great info.
Duly noted. I'll update it asap. Thanks.
Quote from: mitchschaft on August 29, 2015, 09:27:40 PM
Gentlemen, I'll be modding my XP100 as soon as my chip burner comes in from china. I got it for christmas of '94 I think. It's been collecting dust ever since, ha.
Well, if you have any questions... this is the place to ask! ;)
Build document updated, and uploaded to Gallery. Corrected a typo, and added a note regarding R47. Unfortunately, I had to upload it in two parts (new Gallery rules regarding upload file size);
Part one (pages 1 to 33);
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928&g2_GALLERYSID=b8ad4712e015009dd060fe36e07d52a3 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928&g2_GALLERYSID=b8ad4712e015009dd060fe36e07d52a3)
Part two (pages 34 to 67);
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931&g2_GALLERYSID=b8ad4712e015009dd060fe36e07d52a3 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931&g2_GALLERYSID=b8ad4712e015009dd060fe36e07d52a3)
That should clear up some problems.
Cool, thanks. I started this yesterday. Got all the SMD parts down (thank god for the hot air rework station) and now I'm working on the little board I got from Oshpark.
I have a problem with my second XP200-to-XP300 mod:
Everything went ok, the unit woke up as a Space Station when I put the extra RAM and the EPROM, but after some time the unit has a MASSIVE drop of power, no more sound, and the number display just fades out. I tried changing the caps, diodes and regulators from the power section. Keeps doing it. It reaches a certain temperature and then shuts down, signal passes but no effect, and when I let it cool down it works again... very weird.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Mongo
Mongo,
My advice would be to pull the additional RAMs and revert back to the XP200 EEPROM. See if you get the same problem.
If you have the same problem, then at least you have ruled out the additional RAMs and the new EEPROM. Bad news is that now it could be something else that is resident on the PCB or soldering.
This is assuming that this problem did not exist before the mod. Did you test it good before modding?
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on September 26, 2015, 09:02:36 PM
Mongo,
My advice would be to pull the additional RAMs and revert back to the XP200 EEPROM. See if you get the same problem.
If you have the same problem, then at least you have ruled out the additional RAMs and the new EEPROM. Bad news is that now it could be something else that is resident on the PCB or soldering.
This is assuming that this problem did not exist before the mod. Did you test it good before modding?
Ohh hell I must confess I didn't test it before modding. I just assumed it was OK and just modded away as soon as I got it in the mail...
Quote from: mongo on September 27, 2015, 12:54:56 AM
Ohh hell I must confess I didn't test it before modding. I just assumed it was OK and just modded away as soon as I got it in the mail...
In this case, I would suggest putting the unit back to XP200 configuration and testing it. If the same problem exists then look at soldering for the new items you installed. If nothing comes from that, then you need to start looking at factory installed components. Check voltages while powered at different times (try to read them while the failure is occurring)
So I'm looking at getting an XP-400 and starting off simple and just swapping out the stock eeprom for maybe the XP-100. I know you talked about it before Lacky but is the Mini Pro TL866CS still a decent programmer for this kind of thing?
Quote from: MüThing on September 29, 2015, 11:39:25 AM
So I'm looking at getting an XP-400 and starting off simple and just swapping out the stock eeprom for maybe the XP-100. I know you talked about it before Lacky but is the Mini Pro TL866CS still a decent programmer for this kind of thing?
Yep! It is the one I still use ;D
Remember, if you are modding an XP400 into an XP100 (by just swapping out the EEPROM with one programmed with XP100 code) then you will only get the Whammy Wah in Mono. You will lose the Dry Out signal and get nothing from the stereo output.
That's no problem with me, that'd be the only thing to do to get it up and running though?
Quote from: MüThing on September 30, 2015, 10:29:01 AM
That's no problem with me, that'd be the only thing to do to get it up and running though?
If you are using a stock XP400 and want to change it into an XP100, then you only need to swap out the EEPROM with one that has the XP100 program on it.
You 'could' also remove 2 of the 3 RAM chips (U18 and U17)
Yeah, but then that'd make an xp-all mod a lot harder, I'm guessing if all four slots are filled the system wont care and just use as much as it needs
not that I trust myself to do the xp-all mod, I'm a bedroom jammer anyway, if I want a different sound I'll probably just swap out the eeproms if I can get away with it
Quote from: MüThing on September 30, 2015, 02:32:45 PM
Yeah, but then that'd make an xp-all mod a lot harder, I'm guessing if all four slots are filled the system wont care and just use as much as it needs
not that I trust myself to do the xp-all mod, I'm a bedroom jammer anyway, if I want a different sound I'll probably just swap out the eeproms if I can get away with it
Don't remove the sockets for U18 and U17. Just remove the RAM chips.
Of course, that is only if you have issues after you install the XP100 EEPROM. The XP100s only use the RAM chip in U19.
but will it matter if the additional memory is in or will it just throw a fit and not work if I do that? course I havent bought the pedal or the stuff I need so I couldn't find out for myself
never mind, I just realised the xp-all has all four slots populated and that seems to work fine
debugging help needed!!
I build the XP all and programmed the chip myself, I checked the ram chip's and they all seam to work fine.
The XP100 and the XP300 is working, but the XP200 and XP400 are not, they do not boot and the numbers
just look odd. I think maybe I did somethig wrong at the vero board, do anyone sell the PCB i've seen in this
thread?
Hope you can help me getting this one to work, it would be so nice to have all the xp in one pedal.
Big thanks to the developer! And off cause this forum :)
Cheers
Quote from: Rockmusikeren on October 01, 2015, 04:35:27 AM
debugging help needed!!
I build the XP all and programmed the chip myself, I checked the ram chip's and they all seam to work fine.
The XP100 and the XP300 is working, but the XP200 and XP400 are not, they do not boot and the numbers
just look odd. I think maybe I did somethig wrong at the vero board, do anyone sell the PCB i've seen in this
thread?
Hope you can help me getting this one to work, it would be so nice to have all the xp in one pedal.
Big thanks to the developer! And off cause this forum :)
Cheers
The PCB for the EPROM's is located here;
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/G6FmIKkl (https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/G6FmIKkl)
Recheck your vero, and switching.
Thank you so much for the link digi2t, I've ordered a set of pcb's ..
Quote from: digi2t on October 01, 2015, 06:58:11 AM
Recheck your vero, and switching.
+1
Looks like your problem would be most likely with the switching of the A15 signal according to the way you are describing the problem.
Good Luck! ;)
Quote from: Rockmusikeren on October 01, 2015, 08:35:52 AM
Thank you so much for the link digi2t, I've ordered a set of pcb's ..
You're welcome. The PCB is also mentioned (along with the link) on page 48 of the build doc. If it isn't, then you have an old version of the build doc. If this is the case, then it might also explain any problem you might have with the switching. That was a switching diagram problem discovered in an older build doc, and was addressed in a subsequent versions.
The most up to date version is here;
Part 1 - http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928)
Part 2 - http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931)
Sorry for having to split it up, but new Gallery limitations don't allow for a single file upload of this size.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on October 01, 2015, 11:07:53 AM
Quote from: digi2t on October 01, 2015, 06:58:11 AM
Recheck your vero, and switching.
+1
Looks like your problem would be most likely with the switching of the A15 signal according to the way you are describing the problem.
Good Luck! ;)
Thank you Govmnt_Lacky, I will check if I did anything wrong there..
Quote from: digi2t on October 01, 2015, 12:11:10 PM
Quote from: Rockmusikeren on October 01, 2015, 08:35:52 AM
Thank you so much for the link digi2t, I've ordered a set of pcb's ..
You're welcome. The PCB is also mentioned (along with the link) on page 48 of the build doc. If it isn't, then you have an old version of the build doc. If this is the case, then it might also explain any problem you might have with the switching. That was a switching diagram problem discovered in an older build doc, and was addressed in a subsequent versions.
The most up to date version is here;
Part 1 - http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928)
Part 2 - http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931)
Sorry for having to split it up, but new Gallery limitations don't allow for a single file upload of this size.
Ohh digi2t, you got me there, I think I build it all after an old .pdf :icon_redface: Thank you so much for the link's I will check the hole build right away.. :icon_wink:
Old build doc? Yup, check the switching connections then. Page 56, in particular A14, A15, A16. You might have two of these connections backwards. That was the typo in the older documents.
I found the fault, I missed a trace from r2 to pin 32, so now all the XP's are working, but the regulator is running hot and when the thing has been running for some time I can't do a calibration, I then have to let it be for some time without power and then I can do the calibration.
But I have a working unit, the rest I just have to figure out ;)
Thanks for all your help digi2t and Govmnt_Lacky..
Cheers
Hi all,
Just bought an xp100, and I'm considering to mod it to XP300. I don't have a Programmer... Could someone of you sell me a programmed eprom? I live in Europe but I will pay for the chip, time consumed and shipping costs. Thanks!
I'm having problems deciphering the Alpha switch. And I think it's because the numbering on mine doesn't match your switch. I don't see a pic of the numbering on the bottom of your switch to compare it to.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151009_203616.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151009_203616.jpg.html)
For instance, the switch schematic says to hook the orange stereo relay wire to lug 7, deck 2.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/th_6P4TSWITCHWIRING_numbered_zps71740a5f.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/6P4TSWITCHWIRING_numbered_zps71740a5f.jpg.html)
But, your picture in the build doc shows the orange stereo relay wire connecting to lug 1 of deck 1. Atleast compared to how my switch is numbered on the back. Another example, the schematic says to hook the LED's up to 13, 14, 16 and 17. But, what you have your LED's hooked up to in the pic match my switch's 7, 8, 10, 11 lugs.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/th_DSCF3148.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/DSCF3148.jpg.html)
If I'm not mistaken, did you switch deck 1 and deck 2 in this pic compared to the schematic?
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/th_SRRN243_zpsa898c7a4.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/SRRN243_zpsa898c7a4.jpg.html)
Or maybe I'm just confused :icon_redface:.
Quote from: Gui113m on October 09, 2015, 09:10:57 PM
Hi all,
Just bought an xp100, and I'm considering to mod it to XP300. I don't have a Programmer... Could someone of you sell me a programmed eprom? I live in Europe but I will pay for the chip, time consumed and shipping costs. Thanks!
PM me. I'll set you up.
Quote from: mitchschaft on October 09, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
I'm having problems deciphering the Alpha switch. And I think it's because the numbering on mine doesn't match your switch. I don't see a pic of the numbering on the bottom of your switch to compare it to.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151009_203616.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151009_203616.jpg.html)
For instance, the switch schematic says to hook the orange stereo relay wire to lug 7, deck 2.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/th_6P4TSWITCHWIRING_numbered_zps71740a5f.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/6P4TSWITCHWIRING_numbered_zps71740a5f.jpg.html)
But, your picture in the build doc shows the orange stereo relay wire connecting to lug 1 of deck 1. Atleast compared to how my switch is numbered on the back. Another example, the schematic says to hook the LED's up to 13, 14, 16 and 17. But, what you have your LED's hooked up to in the pic match my switch's 7, 8, 10, 11 lugs.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/th_DSCF3148.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/DSCF3148.jpg.html)
If I'm not mistaken, did you switch deck 1 and deck 2 in this pic compared to the schematic?
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Space%20Station/th_SRRN243_zpsa898c7a4.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/digi2t/media/Space%20Station/SRRN243_zpsa898c7a4.jpg.html)
Or maybe I'm just confused :icon_redface:.
Firstly, the diagram you're using is not the correct one. You are using and older version of the build document. Please download the correct version from here; http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/Information/XP-ALL/ (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/Information/XP-ALL/)
As for the switch poles, the diagram is simply a guide. If you look closely, what you have is two 3P4T switches, sandwiched together. Looking at ONE DECK, poles 6, 12, and 18, are the commons for three groups of contact poles. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter which GROUP of contacts you use to do the switching. For example; in the diagram, I show the LED's using contacts 13, 14, 16, 17, and 18 as the COMMON. You can just as easily use 7, 8, 10, 11, and COMMON 12 for the LED's, and use the other group for the relay.
At the end of the day, look at it as a group of rotary switches, with the common poles moving all together when you twist the knob. As long as you commons, and poles, are wired correctly, it shouldn't matter which group you us for what purpose.
Ok, I'll check that out. Just an FYI, I've been using the latest version of the build doc. That's the pic that is in it.
Quote from: mitchschaft on October 10, 2015, 04:44:02 PM
Ok, I'll check that out. Just an FYI, I've been using the latest version of the build doc. That's the pic that is in it.
That picture is not from the correct version. Please follow this link, and scroll to page 56 of the build doc; http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931)
Note that A15 and A16 order are reversed, contrary to the picture you posted.
Here is the link for the first half of the build doc;
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928)
The latest doc was published on 10 September, 2015, and is dated as such.
I see. I just took that pic out of your photo album. But the one I use is from the latest doc. Oops.
Quote from: mitchschaft on October 10, 2015, 07:42:01 PM
I see. I just took that pic out of your photo album. But the one I use is from the latest doc. Oops.
OK, thanks for the info. I'll have to delete that picture.
Alright, I'm back :icon_surprised:. I sorted out the 6P4T Alps switch issue. It was easier than I was thinking...
I completed the XPALL+ project a couple hours ago. Everything except the LED's since I'm waiting for them to arrive.
I ran into a problem when I powered it up. The display was a garbled mess and nothing worked. Turned out to be a leg on the U8 chip wasn't connected. After I fixed that, everything powered up and looked great.
I did a factory reset, ran through all the programs without plugging into an amp. Everything displayed and switched properly through all of the presets on all 4 programs.
I plugged in and started in XP100 mode. Bypass works. Checked out the volume mod and that works fine. All of the wah presets work like normal. But, as soon as I hit the whammy settings the sound is just a mess. Loud, jumbled noise. It's almost the same with the 200, 300 and 400 programs. Some of them are silent, some are clean with no effect coming through and some of them are a loud racket.
I tried a factory reset a few more times. I tried removing the 3 newly installed ram chips leaving only the original. I hope it's bad ram, but the original ram in XP100 mode is there and none of the whammy presets work so I'm not sure.
I ordered a 5 piece set of ram some months back and he still has them for sale: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pcs-UPD41464C-10-DRAM-65536-4-Bit-100ns-Memory-D41464-41464C-10-NMOS-NEC-NEW-/130891206445
I tried swapping all 5 around in the 3 slots, but left the original alone in the 1st slot. If you think it's bad ram, I'll try to order some more from somebody else. I reflowed solder on the newly installed ram slots and checked continuity. Maybe I have the ground coming off of the adapter board going to the wrong place. Do I have the R30 leads in the right place? Yellow on the left most pad to the adapter board.
The only thing I haven't tried is reprogramming the 27C1001 chip.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070723.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070723.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070529.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070529.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070608.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070608.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070619.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070619.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070650.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070650.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070739.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070739.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070747.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070747.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_075607.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_075607.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070750.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070750.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070825.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070825.jpg.html)
I scratched the hell out of it during this build and accidentally rubbed some alcohol below the switch lol.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_081856.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_081856.jpg.html)
I just tried to do a straight XP100 to XP300 mod, including a switch to go back and forth between the two. I also added the output mod. The parts I used were a programmed eprom, 3 extra ram chips, the 3 tantalum caps, a 100r resistor on the switch after taking out r38, and the smd chip for U8.
Once I finished rigging all that up, I went to test it, and while the whammy side still worked, when I unplugged and switched to the Space Station side, as soon as I hit the strings I got horrible white noise over top of my signal. I could definitely hear some signal coming through underneath the noise, and as far as i could tell, it had the correct effect on it. The output control seemed to work fine. That's when the really stupid decisions began...
Not knowing much about how this thing worked, I tried to take off the SMD chip to try a different one in its place--big mistake. In the process of taking it off, I totally destroyed 3 or 4 of the solder pads on the board. I could clearly see a couple of the pads going to little through hole points, so I tried to jumper those points to their respective chip legs, but not all of them have obvious through hole pads that I can use. Now, the whammy side still works fine, but when I switch to the Space Station it won't even power up!
I suppose the help that I need would be to direct me to alternative points on the board that I can jumper the SMD legs to. I looked at the schematic, but I don't trust my schematic reading skills.
I believe that the problem legs are 14, 15, and 17.
@caleb
First of all, if you are still getting some sort of "proper program" signal under the white noise, then this tells me that your EEPROM is programmed correctly AND the U8 chip was soldered correctly.
My #1 suspect in this situation would be the RAM chips. Specifically, U16, U17, or U18. Try swapping these 3 RAM chips (one at a time) into U19 while in Whammy/Wah mode. See if one of them will cause your Whammy/Wah to act the same way. Even if they don't, they could still be causing the issue though.
As for the busted traces on the U8 chip, you might be in luck. From U8, those three traces each go to the EEPROM chip U9.
U8 Pin 14 ---> U9 Pin 5
U8 Pin 15 ---> U9 Pin 6
U8 Pin 16 ---> U9 Pin 7
U8 Pin 17 ---> U9 Pin 8
Good Luck with the fixes.
Just snagged that XP400 off eBay, I dunno if I wanna burn the chips myself or see if one of you guys might be willing to send me a couple.
If anyone from the UK wants to send me some xp1/2/300 chips I'm willing to give you a good deal.
Well, the problem with mine isn't ram since I just got more in from Jameco. I guess it's a solder/trace issue or a bad SMD chip.
I fixed mine and it's working 100%. I found a solder bridge on ram slot 3 and also reprogrammed the 27C1001 just incase.
Well, it's not 100%. Sometimes I have to power it on/off after switching between the 100 and any other ones on the occasion when there is no sound after making the switch. I wonder if the relay is bad.
Is it normal for all the RAM sockets to be populated even when not all four are being used.
Quote from: MüThing on October 23, 2015, 12:04:36 PM
Is it normal for all the RAM sockets to be populated even when not all four are being used.
XP100s and 200s only use 1 RAM chip (U19)
XP400s used three of them (U17, U18, and U19)
XP300s used all four
I have never seen any 100s or 200s with more than 1 chip. Never seen a 400 with more than 3 chips.
Sorry, I didn't really articulate that too well. What I mean is is it normal for the pedals to have sockets installed even if the pedal isn't using them? My XP400 has 4 ram sockets soldered in but as you said it only uses three of them.
Quote from: MüThing on October 23, 2015, 02:55:09 PM
Sorry, I didn't really articulate that too well. What I mean is is it normal for the pedals to have sockets installed even if the pedal isn't using them? My XP400 has 4 ram sockets soldered in but as you said it only uses three of them.
Never seen that ??? Although, its not out of the realm of possibility.
Might want to take a good look at it to make sure it wasn't a resale of a mod gone wrong :-\
I don't think I can get the board out to take a proper look without desoldering the LED board which I don't feel like doing right now.
From what I can see though the extra slot is put in pretty cleanly, it has all the pins sticking out on the back of the board like the rest of them. It's missing the third tant capacitor but I'm not sure how important that is to make everything work.
I also took a look at the EPROM and jotted down the text on the label in case it might be important:
XP400 V1.00
72-3144-19V1.00
CS:7588
Probably just a mistake at the factory when they assembled the PCB. As long as the pedal functions as an XP400... nothing to worry about then. ;D
Marmaliser hooked me up with a set of each chip and an extra ram chip just recently, if anyone else needs one or a 27C1001 he's your best bet if you're in europe. Thanks again, man! My 400's a 300 for now.
Quote from: MüThing on November 02, 2015, 01:55:46 PM
Marmaliser hooked me up with a set of each chip and an extra ram chip just recently, if anyone else needs one or a 27C1001 he's your best bet if you're in europe. Thanks again, man! My 400's a 300 for now.
+1
Thanks marmaliser!!
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on October 19, 2015, 03:05:37 PM
@caleb
First of all, if you are still getting some sort of "proper program" signal under the white noise, then this tells me that your EEPROM is programmed correctly AND the U8 chip was soldered correctly.
My #1 suspect in this situation would be the RAM chips. Specifically, U16, U17, or U18. Try swapping these 3 RAM chips (one at a time) into U19 while in Whammy/Wah mode. See if one of them will cause your Whammy/Wah to act the same way. Even if they don't, they could still be causing the issue though.
As for the busted traces on the U8 chip, you might be in luck. From U8, those three traces each go to the EEPROM chip U9.
U8 Pin 14 ---> U9 Pin 5
U8 Pin 15 ---> U9 Pin 6
U8 Pin 16 ---> U9 Pin 7
U8 Pin 17 ---> U9 Pin 8
Good Luck with the fixes.
Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, after making sure that all the connections on the SMD chip were good, I still don't get anything on the display or any output, with or without white noise... Could I have ruined the SMD chip?
Quote from: caleboaks on November 03, 2015, 07:29:29 PM
Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, after making sure that all the connections on the SMD chip were good, I still don't get anything on the display or any output, with or without white noise... Could I have ruined the SMD chip?
My advice would be to upload some good pictures of your mod. Specifically, try to get good shots of the RAM chips, the R30 area, U8, U9 area, your switch and wiring..... anything that could help.
Throwing this out there in case someone has any fresh ideas....
I built an XP ALL with stacked 27C256 EEPROMs. This was built on an XP100 PCB so I had to remove R30, swap R38 over to R47, Install U8, and new IC sockets for the RAM chips.
Everything looked great..... then the problem! Randomly, the pedal will blank out and/or show hieroglyphs in the display. No sound output on any of the jacks. There is no particular thing that I do which induces this. It appears to be totally random. The timing is random as well. I can power the pedal for 2-3 hours with no problems. I can unplug the pedal power and then plug it back in and 5 minutes later it will hang up :-\
I leave it overnight and then plug it in and it will be fine for 30-40 minutes and then hang up again. It is frustrating because there is no particular trigger and it is totally random.
I thought I found the problem being some questionable solder points on U8 however, the problem has reappeared. I am starting to think this might be a problem with the onboard CPU or sound processor.
If anyone has a fresh idea... I'm all ears. ;)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 09, 2015, 10:06:43 AM
swap R38 over to R47
Whats this part? Haven't seen anything other than remove R38 before.
As for your issue, I wonder if it could be potentially bad memory - though odd that it could go awhile before flaking out. I would be more inclined to guess there is some kind of instability either with the CPU or the memory that over time due to heat or the like sends the unit into lala land. Maybe even a weak solder joint?
Quote from: slacker775 on November 09, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
Whats this part? Haven't seen anything other than remove R38 before.
R38 is an SMD 10 ohm resistor. On XP100s where they use the CPU internal memory for the program, this resistor is in the R38 position. To have the CPU look to the EEPROM for the programs, the resistor must be removed from the R38 position and soldered into the R47 position.
Quote
I would be more inclined to guess there is some kind of instability either with the CPU or the memory that over time due to heat or the like sends the unit into lala land. Maybe even a weak solder joint?
Right now, I am thinking it is inherent to the CPU or the Sound processor. Weak solder joint is what led me to checking U8 and resoldering it's joints which appeared to work however, this was a false indication as the pedal started hanging up after 2 more power cycles.
The fact that I get total loss of sound AND the display goes blank/funky tells me that it is most likely in the CPU :'(
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 09, 2015, 10:32:54 AM
Quote from: slacker775 on November 09, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
Whats this part? Haven't seen anything other than remove R38 before.
R38 is an SMD 10 ohm resistor. On XP100s where they use the CPU internal memory for the program, this resistor is in the R38 position. To have the CPU look to the EEPROM for the programs, the resistor must be removed from the R38 position and soldered into the R47 position.
Well crap, thats not in the doc! I'm working on my second conversion and I'm actually getting somewhat similar results to what you have - except it happens right out of the gate. I haven't tried audio yet, but when I power it on, most of the time I just get gobbledygook on the display. On rare occasions, it has actually seemed to function normally for a few seconds before flaking out. I haven't done anything with R47 though. I'll have to look at that when I get home.
Quote
Quote
I would be more inclined to guess there is some kind of instability either with the CPU or the memory that over time due to heat or the like sends the unit into lala land. Maybe even a weak solder joint?
Right now, I am thinking it is inherent to the CPU or the Sound processor. Weak solder joint is what led me to checking U8 and resoldering it's joints which appeared to work however, this was a false indication as the pedal started hanging up after 2 more power cycles.
The fact that I get total loss of sound AND the display goes blank/funky tells me that it is most likely in the CPU :'(
Since I've started dealing with these things, I've been looking for a good way to test the RAM chips. Just some way I could drop them into a breadboard with an Arduino or RaspPi and run it thru standard memory tests to verify if the chips are good. So far I haven't come up with anything (ARGH!). At least the EEPROM can be read back and verified against the BIN file. Outside of that, it's a bit of a guessing game. Even the CPU on these things is proprietary as far as I can tell so no datasheets or the like to give us some diagnostic info to help with debugging.
Quote from: slacker775 on November 09, 2015, 10:38:54 AM
Since I've started dealing with these things, I've been looking for a good way to test the RAM chips. Just some way I could drop them into a breadboard with an Arduino or RaspPi and run it thru standard memory tests to verify if the chips are good. So far I haven't come up with anything (ARGH!). At least the EEPROM can be read back and verified against the BIN file. Outside of that, it's a bit of a guessing game. Even the CPU on these things is proprietary as far as I can tell so no datasheets or the like to give us some diagnostic info to help with debugging.
The CPU is not proprietary. Only the Digitech version with the masked internal memory is. The actual CPU chip info can be found. Look up "Philips 80C31 Microcontroller"
The sound processor (the biggest chip on the PCB) unfortunately IS proprietary. It is also not made anymore :'(
As for the RAM chips... yeah, it's a guess. All you can do is verify all solder joints and connections to the rest of the circuit :-\
How many EEPROM chips are in your build? Are you using the CPU masked memory to retrieve the XP100 program and EEPROMs for the other 3?
I'm doing the XP-All style with a 27C1001. My first conversion worked flawlessly, but I was also helped a bit in that my XP-100 base already used an EEPROM and already had U8 in place.
I've got a quick question for anyone who's done an XPall+ conversion, could you confirm that the switch wiring diagram on page 56 of the build doc is correct http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931)
The reason I'm asking is me and Greg have been working on electronic switching system, basically replaces the rotary with a stomp switch to scroll through the modes, we've got the XPAll sorted but are having problems with the XPAll+
Looking at the build doc (page 40) it says the different modes start at hex addresses 0000, 8000, 10000 and 18000 which makes sense because that's splitting the EEPROM up into 4 equal chunks. However, the values given for A14, A15 and A16 in the table on page 39 for 10000 and 18000 are incorrect and this seems to have carried through to the switch diagram on page 56.
10000 hex is A14: 0 A15: 0 A16: 1
18000 hex is A14: 0 A15: 1 A16: 1
Cheers in advance :)
You can ignore my question, just heard back from Greg and we've got it working. The switching diagram makes sense now, in the xp300 and xp400 settings the switch leaves A14 floating and it's controlled by the 83C154 so this must pull it low when it starts reading the EPPROM and the start addresses will then be either 10000 or 18000, the A15 and A16 settings are correct, so it's only the table that's wrong.
Actually this leads on to something else, you don't actually need the rotary to control A14, it's driven by the 83C154 and will always be 0 when it starts reading the eeprom because it always starts at what it thinks is address 0. You only need to switch A15 and A16.
I like the sound of an electronic switching setup! Especially if that could be put onto a pcb with the leds to greatly reduce the amount of wiring!
Thanks Ian! ;)
So far, the XP ALL+ build that I have with the electronic switching is electrically functioning properly. No sound check yet but I will get to that at a later time and report back.
To sum up. The A14 connection (in my build) is only connected to its place on the XP PCB. No pull up resistor to 5V and nothing to pull it down to 0V. Essentially, the 83C154 is controlling the switching. The only lines that I am currently controlling is A15 and A16.
I am using the 27C1001 EEPROM built by Dino and one of marmaliser's adapter PCBs. No relay installed for Dry signal in XP100 mode.
So, according to this.... here is the coding for the A15 and A16 lines per pedal:
XP100 = A15: 0V A16: 0V
XP200 = A15: 5V A16: 0V
XP300 = A15: 0V A16: 5V
XP400 = A15: 5V A16: 5V
I'm liking the idea of a footswitch over a rotary, if a PCB does end up being made I think I'd consider an XP-ALL+ mod a lot more.
Ultimately the wiring isn't all that bad, but I'm always a big fan of less wiring.
Cool, so we won't need the relay anymore?
Quote from: mitchschaft on November 11, 2015, 08:18:45 PM
Cool, so we won't need the relay anymore?
I think the relay would still be needed for the stereo dry out jumper.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Sometimes mine doesn't switch, but I haven't gone through troubleshooting yet.
Quote from: mitchschaft on November 11, 2015, 08:18:45 PM
Cool, so we won't need the relay anymore?
You still need the relay for the Dry Out while in XP100 mode. I don't use it in my build(s) because I just do not think it is worth it for the Dry output :-\
The thing that slows me down to a standstill on doing the XP all+ is the switch wiring , Electronic switching on a PCB sounds great to me . Happy to do a PCB if someone can come up with a scheme
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 04, 2015, 09:18:53 AM
Quote from: caleboaks on November 03, 2015, 07:29:29 PM
Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately, after making sure that all the connections on the SMD chip were good, I still don't get anything on the display or any output, with or without white noise... Could I have ruined the SMD chip?
My advice would be to upload some good pictures of your mod. Specifically, try to get good shots of the RAM chips, the R30 area, U8, U9 area, your switch and wiring..... anything that could help.
Well here are the pics... I'm well aware of the fact that there's some really ugly soldering in there, but I've tested everything I can think to test with the continuity meter, and it all seems ok. I'm including a link to a video I took of the symptoms. It seems to start working relatively normally after preset #29 or so, but before that it does all sorts of weird crap. I also see that the fourth ram chip isn't seated all the way down, but that socket doesn't want it to go any further, and I get beeps on all pins when I test it.
http://imgur.com/a/a25ri (http://imgur.com/a/a25ri)
@caleboaks
OK... couple things I see from your pics:
1) It looks like you still have R30 installed (the SMD resistor directly below the left-most jack) Unless you do not want stereo output while in XP300 mode.. you need to remove that.
2) Are you trying to have a dual pedal? Do you want to be able to switch between XP100 and XP300 on your mod? If so, could you post up a better pic of your switch wiring?
3) Your RAM chips look suspect. First.. they say NEC JAPAN. The only ones I have ever used and have seen working are NEC IRELAND. Also, they are 150nS access time. Recommended speed for these is no more than 120nS. 100nS or less is best. So, you should use -10 or -80 RAM chips.
4) You also do not have C63 (390nF), Q5 (J113), or Q10 (J113) installed. You HAVE TO have these installed for the XP300 to work properly. Without them, the wet signal is not getting properly mixed with the dry.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 15, 2015, 11:03:49 PM
@caleboaks
OK... couple things I see from your pics:
1) It looks like you still have R30 installed (the SMD resistor directly below the left-most jack) Unless you do not want stereo output while in XP300 mode.. you need to remove that.
2) Are you trying to have a dual pedal? Do you want to be able to switch between XP100 and XP300 on your mod? If so, could you post up a better pic of your switch wiring?
3) Your RAM chips look suspect. First.. they say NEC JAPAN. The only ones I have ever used and have seen working are NEC IRELAND. Also, they are 150nS access time. Recommended speed for these is no more than 120nS. 100nS or less is best. So, you should use -10 or -80 RAM chips.
4) You also do not have C63 (390nF), Q5 (J113), or Q10 (J113) installed. You HAVE TO have these installed for the XP300 to work properly. Without them, the wet signal is not getting properly mixed with the dry.
Dude. You're a golden god of DIY help! I thought I had made sure to buy chips with the right access time, but apparently I didn't, and apparently I didn't look at them for the entire month that I've been troubleshooting this build :icon_redface: I ordered new ram and it immediately stopped making that horrible hissing sound, and started launching me into space every time I hit a string! I ordered the caps and transistors you mentioned too, which I'll install tomorrow when they arrive. But I think it's safe to say that another Space Station/Whammy hybrid has been completed!
Thanks again for your help @Govmnt_Lacky
Good to hear you are working now...
Once you install C63, Q5, Q10, and remove R30... you will get the XP300 in stereo. Keep in mind that you will lose the Dry Output in XP100 mode though...
Quote from: caleboaks on November 18, 2015, 03:34:33 PM
Thanks again for your help @Govmnt_Lacky
The man is God-like. Astounding! 8)
Glad to hear that we have another success.
Quote from: digi2t on November 18, 2015, 08:46:35 PM
The man is God-like. Astounding! 8)
I owe it all to Don Dino. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse...
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/AnSJ2UZPVJvPy/200.gif)
And another one lives. Just realised I don't think i have posted one of my completed builds yet. Skipped the XP 100 stereo as I just cant get those wires on the SMD pads to be secure enough.
Also this one uses the new board which is < 5x5cm so it is cheaper to buy at seeed etc and the wiring holes are spaced for connectors if that's your thang.
Have another XP200 on the bench atm and that one is getting the output volume mod as well (and 2 more xp100's to do :o )
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/xpallnewboard.JPG)
This made the whole job a lot easier
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87175222/desolder.JPG)
Once again thanks to Dino and Greg 8)
Just a heads up....
If anyone is looking for some EEPROMs (the 27C256) to be burned and shipped to you... hit me up with a PM. I have a ton of them and will not use all of them. Not free but.. we can work out the details. 8)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 24, 2015, 10:28:17 AM
Just a heads up....
If anyone is looking for some EEPROMs (the 27C256) to be burned and shipped to you... hit me up with a PM. I have a ton of them and will not use all of them. Not free but.. we can work out the details. 8)
Now there's an offer no one can refuse.
Don Dino.
Any info on doing a dual-boot XP for 100/300 functions WITH stereo out for the 100? I know digi tried to do something like that but I don't know how well that went or whether it'd even be possible to get the stereo back on the 100 mode.
Quote from: MüThing on November 26, 2015, 03:24:13 PM
Any info on doing a dual-boot XP for 100/300 functions WITH stereo out for the 100? I know digi tried to do something like that but I don't know how well that went or whether it'd even be possible to get the stereo back on the 100 mode.
The stereo out in 100 mode has been done and validated. It's covered in the
XP-ALL+ section of the build doc, and can be applied in all cases.
I was thinking more along the lines of stacking eeproms, unless that was what you meant too.
Quote from: MüThing on November 26, 2015, 07:34:57 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of stacking eeproms, unless that was what you meant too.
The relay workaround can be applied to the stacked eprom's version as well. You'll just need to mount the relay somewhere, but the principals of operation are the same. You'll just need an extra layer of switching, like the XP-ALL+.
Hope no one minds me posting this here, it's sort of XPAll related any objections and I'll start my own thread,
Following in from the discussions here http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112088.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112088.0) I got my logic analyser out and did some poking around the 93C46 eeeprom on the board. Free Electron was spot on it does hold the user settings so by adding multiple chips in a similar way to the main eeproms in the XPAll mod you could have separate user programs for each model. This wouldn't be too difficult, there's handy vias just below the chip that you could solder wires to to take the required signals to a little breakout board with the extra chips on.
If anyone's interested this is how the data is stored on the 93C46.
Addresses 0 - 5 store the User Programs
Address 20 stores the current Factory Program
Address 21 stores the current User Program
Address 22 Stores the current mode, Factory or User
When you change between programs/modes it writes to address 20, 21 or 22 to store the current selection.When you store a program to one of the User Programs it writes to that address to store it.
At power up it reads all those addresses and also from addresses 35 and 37, I'm guessing they hold the pedal calibration values but I haven't tested it.
Quote from: slacker on December 04, 2015, 04:23:52 PM
Hope no one minds me posting this here, it's sort of XPAll related any objections and I'll start my own thread,
Following in from the discussions here http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112088.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112088.0) I got my logic analyser out and did some poking around the 93C46 eeeprom on the board. Free Electron was spot on it does hold the user settings so by adding multiple chips in a similar way to the main eeproms in the XPAll mod you could have separate user programs for each model. This wouldn't be too difficult, there's handy vias just below the chip that you could solder wires to to take the required signals to a little breakout board with the extra chips on.
If anyone's interested this is how the data is stored on the 93C46.
Addresses 0 - 5 store the User Programs
Address 20 stores the current Factory Program
Address 21 stores the current User Program
Address 22 Stores the current mode, Factory or User
When you change between programs/modes it writes to address 20, 21 or 22 to store the current selection.When you store a program to one of the User Programs it writes to that address to store it.
At power up it reads all those addresses and also from addresses 35 and 37, I'm guessing they hold the pedal calibration values but I haven't tested it.
You guys are simply brilliant! I'm always slober knockered at how you fellows go about figuring this stuff out. :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: slacker on December 04, 2015, 04:23:52 PM
Hope no one minds me posting this here, it's sort of XPAll related any objections and I'll start my own thread,
Following in from the discussions here http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112088.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112088.0) I got my logic analyser out and did some poking around the 93C46 eeeprom on the board. Free Electron was spot on it does hold the user settings so by adding multiple chips in a similar way to the main eeproms in the XPAll mod you could have separate user programs for each model. This wouldn't be too difficult, there's handy vias just below the chip that you could solder wires to to take the required signals to a little breakout board with the extra chips on.
If anyone's interested this is how the data is stored on the 93C46.
Addresses 0 - 5 store the User Programs
Address 20 stores the current Factory Program
Address 21 stores the current User Program
Address 22 Stores the current mode, Factory or User
When you change between programs/modes it writes to address 20, 21 or 22 to store the current selection.When you store a program to one of the User Programs it writes to that address to store it.
At power up it reads all those addresses and also from addresses 35 and 37, I'm guessing they hold the pedal calibration values but I haven't tested it.
I could see this for a multi-EEPROM build but, how could this be accomplished with the single 27C1001 EEPROM builds? A different chip?
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 05, 2015, 01:30:53 AMI could see this for a multi-EEPROM build but, how could this be accomplished with the single 27C1001 EEPROM builds? A different chip?
Easy: hang 4 EEPROM chips on the same bus, but with the CS (Chip Select) wired to the rotary so it selects the corresponding chip. Does the rotary have a free wafer?
Quote from: pruttelherrie on December 05, 2015, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 05, 2015, 01:30:53 AMI could see this for a multi-EEPROM build but, how could this be accomplished with the single 27C1001 EEPROM builds? A different chip?
Easy: hang 4 EEPROM chips on the same bus, but with the CS (Chip Select) wired to the rotary so it selects the corresponding chip. Does the rotary have a free wafer?
Well, since the A14 line does not need rotary control, I guess it does. On the version that is "in work" it might need more doing. Any ideas slacker? ::)
Quote from: pruttelherrie on December 05, 2015, 11:50:32 AM
Easy: hang 4 EEPROM chips on the same bus, but with the CS (Chip Select) wired to the rotary so it selects the corresponding chip. Does the rotary have a free wafer?
Sure!
(http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Switches/SealedRotary/swr-48-1955-2_lg.jpg)
:icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 05, 2015, 11:54:52 AM
On the version that is "in work" it might need more doing. Any ideas slacker? ::)
For the PIC based version my eventual aim is to have the PIC emulate the 93C46, so the pedal's processor thinks it's talking to the 93C46 but really it's talking to the PIC, the PIC can store separate settings for each model. This is technically doable, I don't know if I have the programming chops to pull it off though.
In the short term I'll do a version where the PIC selects between multiple 93C46s using something like a CD4051. That would be simple enough to do, the existing PIC has enough spare pins.
Ian....
Sounds promising however, adding even more passive to the circuit is going to create more strain on the regulators. I fear adding 3-4 more ICs with supporting components will push it over the edge.
Instead of 4 eeproms, perhaps 1 4mb and do a similar and switch technique?
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 11, 2015, 06:34:49 PM
Thanks Ian! ;)
To sum up. The A14 connection (in my build) is only connected to its place on the XP PCB. No pull up resistor to 5V and nothing to pull it down to 0V. Essentially, the 83C154 is controlling the switching. The only lines that I am currently controlling is A15 and A16.
I am using the 27C1001 EEPROM built by Dino and one of marmaliser's adapter PCBs. No relay installed for Dry signal in XP100 mode.
So, according to this.... here is the coding for the A15 and A16 lines per pedal:
XP100 = A15: 0V A16: 0V
XP200 = A15: 5V A16: 0V
XP300 = A15: 0V A16: 5V
XP400 = A15: 5V A16: 5V
Just to confirm I have just removed the connection to A14 off of a working XP all + build and it still works just fine
Quote from: marmaliser on December 15, 2015, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 11, 2015, 06:34:49 PM
Thanks Ian! ;)
To sum up. The A14 connection (in my build) is only connected to its place on the XP PCB. No pull up resistor to 5V and nothing to pull it down to 0V. Essentially, the 83C154 is controlling the switching. The only lines that I am currently controlling is A15 and A16.
I am using the 27C1001 EEPROM built by Dino and one of marmaliser's adapter PCBs. No relay installed for Dry signal in XP100 mode.
So, according to this.... here is the coding for the A15 and A16 lines per pedal:
XP100 = A15: 0V A16: 0V
XP200 = A15: 5V A16: 0V
XP300 = A15: 0V A16: 5V
XP400 = A15: 5V A16: 5V
Just to confirm I have just removed the connection to A14 off of a working XP all + build and it still works just fine
I confirm, confirm this. :icon_mrgreen:
By working do we mean running or functioning here?
Quote from: MüThing on December 16, 2015, 12:33:21 PM
By working do we mean running or functioning here?
Both! Disconnecting the A14 connection has no effect on the pedal functioning/running like it does before it was disconnected. All it will do is remove the additional current drain that is caused by having that pull down resistor in place.
That's strange, I wonder why it was thought to be needed in the first place.
Quote from: MüThing on December 16, 2015, 04:45:15 PM
That's strange, I wonder why it was thought to be needed in the first place.
Keep in mind that this has always been a work in progress, not to mention a big fat learning curve for some (read "me"). Hence the occassional updates/corrections to the build doc are to be expected. Just when I think that I've made the ultimate update to the build doc, someone finds something new that needs to be addressed.
This is what I call "learning". :icon_mrgreen:
Here is just a random thought to an issue I have with mine. You mention removing A14 will get rid of current drain. Could this current drain be responsible for my xp-All+ occasionally not switching from xp100 mode to the other modes? Occasionally, when I flip the switch from xp100 mode to any other mode, it's silent and nothing happens except for the click. I have to power cycle it to get anything out if it. Or am I totally off base?
Quote from: mitchschaft on December 16, 2015, 10:49:51 PM
Here is just a random thought to an issue I have with mine. You mention removing A14 will get rid of current drain. Could this current drain be responsible for my xp-All+ occasionally not switching from xp100 mode to the other modes? Occasionally, when I flip the switch from xp100 mode to any other mode, it's silent and nothing happens except for the click. I have to power cycle it to get anything out if it. Or am I totally off base?
Easy test; Disconnect the A14 wire, and see if it ever happens again. If it doesn't, could well be. If it does, suspect another cause.
@mitchshaft
May be a stupid question but....
Are you using stacked EEPROMs for your conversion or are you using the 27C1001 EEPROM with adapter?
Just the 27C1001. I was going to mention that, but I thought the XP-ALL+ denoted it. My bad!
Of course I didn't think to just disconnect it myself :P. I'll see what happens.
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070723.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070723.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070619.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070619.jpg.html)
(http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag128/mitchschaft/XP-All/th_20151012_070650.jpg) (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/mitchschaft/media/XP-All/20151012_070650.jpg.html)
@mitchshaft
Are those 4K7 resistors you are using for pull-ups on the adapter board? If I were you, I would change those to at least 10K. 22K is best.
Yeah, I put in what the build doc said. I'll swap 'em to 22k.
Swapping the 4k7's to 22k caused the channel changing issue to occur every time instead of occasionally. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not. And, when I remove A14 from the rotary switch, the XP100 channel is blank on the screen and no sound, the Xp200 channel displays '88' with no sound, but the xp300 and 400 work fine.
I have some gremlins in my build.
Quote from: mitchschaft on December 19, 2015, 03:53:17 PM
Swapping the 4k7's to 22k caused the channel changing issue to occur every time instead of occasionally. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not. And, when I remove A14 from the rotary switch, the XP100 channel is blank on the screen and no sound, the Xp200 channel displays '88' with no sound, but the xp300 and 400 work fine.
I have some gremlins in my build.
The 22Ks should not do that. The only think it should do is reduce the current draw when the channel(s) are held HI.
It sounds to me like you need to trace ALL of your wiring from the rotary to wherever they go.
Ok. Knowing me I have something backwards. Especially since disconnecting A14 causes all those troubles when it's not supposed to make a difference. Or I even might have A14 mixed up with 15 or 16 in my head.
A14, 15 and 16 are clearly labeled on the perfboard pics in the doc. With the oshpark board it's not and I assumed A14 is the one hole moved from the right of the perfboard to the left on the oshpark board closest to the other connections. But I used my meter to check continuity to see where they attached to. So there's no telling lol.
Did you remove the pull up resistor as well? If you didn't, that A14 line will constantly be pulled up. Removing the wiring will only remove the potential for that line to go LO.
Oh, I didn't see anything about removing resistors. I'll go back and re-read.
Quote from: mitchschaft on December 20, 2015, 03:10:50 PM
Oh, I didn't see anything about removing resistors. I'll go back and re-read.
I don't know if it is specified but, that resistor ties the A14 line to HI cnstantly. It is the line to the rotary that controls whether or not that line goes LO.
Not 100% sure it will change your problem but, I am sure it is not needed.
Ok, I was removing the wrong wire off of the switch that I thought was A14. After removing the correct one, and the resistor, all modes work.
I still get the problem with switching from xp100, though.
Quote from: mitchschaft on December 20, 2015, 04:55:55 PM
I still get the problem with switching from xp100, though.
Can you give some detail about this? Sounds odd but, run us through it again.
Yeah, when I power it on, all of the channels work fine. But, if I'm in XP-100 mode and switch away from it, everything is silent. When you hit the strings, the 'signal' led lights up and everything on the LCD acts normal, just no sound. If I'm in any other mode and switch to 100 mode, it still works fine. But when I switch away from it again, it's silent. It'll do that probably 80% of the time. And the only way to get sound back is if I power cycle it. Gremlins...
So....
If you power up in XP300 mode it works fine. Switch from there to XP200 mode it works fine. Switch from there to XP100 mode it works fine. Switch from there to XP400 mode and there is no sounds output? Also, any switching after that you get no sound?
If you cycle power then the whole evolution starts again? Is that all correct?
Are you checking signal output on BOTH outputs?
My guess is that something is going on with your relay setup. Is the relay sticking once it gets power and only a power down will allow it to release?
Yeah, everything you described is correct and I've checked the dry and effect outputs.
I was leaning towards the relay, too. The relay makes the click when you leave XP-100 mode and enter it so I don't think it's getting stuck. I guess I should swap it out to test it.
Well, after digesting everything. The only other suspect I have is the EEPROM. Somehow, the XP100 code is corrupting the DSP when you leave that function.
Check your solder points on the adapter board too.
Will do. I'll check back after I check everything out.
Quote from: mitchschaft on December 20, 2015, 06:03:57 PM
Will do. I'll check back after I check everything out.
Any good news?
hi guys can anyone here sell me a pre programmed xp300 eprom ? me emails
soundprism@btinternet.com
i dont have a programmer and by the time i buy one it maybe cheaper to get a chip from someone who can flash me one ?
if that fails whats the cheapest programmer for the xprom
hi guys and can anyone here sell me a pre programmed xp300 eprom ? me emails
soundprism@btinternet.com
i dont have a programmer and by the time i buy one it maybe cheaper to get a chip from someone who can flash me one ?
hi guys and can anyone here sell me a pre programmed xp300 eprom ? me emails
soundprism@btinternet.com
i dont have a programmer and by the time i buy one it maybe cheaper to get a chip from someone who can flash me one ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MCUmall-Canada-GQ-brand-True-USB-GQ-4X-EPROM-BIOS-Chip-Burner-Device-Programmer-/121305918744?hash=item1c3e656d18:g:PAAAAOxyCGNTNHY7
I finally got round to doing the XPAll+ mod with my PIC based switching. I still want to tweak a few things in the code but it basically does its job.
For those who haven't heard about it, this replaces the rotary switch with a stomp switch and a PIC micro controller. The stomp cycles though the four modes and also lets you set which mode the pedal boots up in at power up.
If anyone wants to give it a go the code and schematic are available here https://github.com/slackDSP/XPAll_XPAll-Plus_switcher (https://github.com/slackDSP/XPAll_XPAll-Plus_switcher)
Here's a few photos of the build, this is only a temporary set up, the board with the PIC on needs mounting properly.
Thanks to Marmaliser for the EEPROM and daughter board.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/29f22b8c43f8e512c27659992b728942.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/dd05adc5b367ba17410e6f20067a0053.jpg)
I couldn't find any NEC ram chips for a decent price so I did a bit of googling and found that apparently Intel and Hyundai also made the same chips. I was able to find some Hyundai ones on ebay from a UK seller so took a gamble and they work fine.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/9bc26eff2c662ea6fd619423da33bf7d.jpg)
that microcontroller board looks very simple, do you have a shot of it?
I didn't bother taking a photo of, it's just a scrap of vero with the PIC and a few passives. The schematic for it is here https://github.com/slackDSP/XPAll_XPAll-Plus_switcher/blob/master/hardware/xpall_switcher.pdf (https://github.com/slackDSP/XPAll_XPAll-Plus_switcher/blob/master/hardware/xpall_switcher.pdf) I haven't done the stereo mod so it doesn't include the relay and associated parts.
It would be nice to integrate it with the EEPROM daughter board, that would reduce the amount of off board wiring.
Looks simple enough, I'd sure pay for a combined PCB though if that was to become a thing.
So I did the XP-All+ mod, and things aren't working entirely. Here's a list of which programs work for each pedal:
100 - everything works fine,
200 - no sound on all the patches except for 11-16,
300 - only dry sound,
400 - no sound on any of the patches.
I managed to mess up soldering the R30 jumpers, so I figured I could solder them to the appropriate pins on Q5 (J113) since R30 is just connecting those two pins together (if this isn't the case be sure to let me know.
I'll get some pictures of my awful soldering work tomorrow, if anyone has any clues in the meantime please let me know.
Have you used the latest build doc (the one in two parts) as there was a switch wiring correction in there.
Yes, that was the document I used.
Quote from: MüThing on March 04, 2016, 03:06:03 PM
So I did the XP-All+ mod, and things aren't working entirely. Here's a list of which programs work for each pedal:
100 - everything works fine,
200 - no sound on all the patches except for 11-16,
300 - only dry sound,
400 - no sound on any of the patches.
I managed to mess up soldering the R30 jumpers, so I figured I could solder them to the appropriate pins on Q5 (J113) since R30 is just connecting those two pins together (if this isn't the case be sure to let me know.
I'll get some pictures of my awful soldering work tomorrow, if anyone has any clues in the meantime please let me know.
First suspect is the EEPROM. Did you use a 27C1001? Try a freshly burned chip. Are you using an EEPROM with a -12 speed rating or lower?
After that, you will want to look at the RAM chips. Specifically, U16, U17, and U18. Check for solder issues and then try different ICs. Are you using ICs with a -12 speed rating or lower?
Lastly, check U8 (if you installed one/modded an XP100) sometimes... bad solder joints or bad connections can cause strange issues.
Good Luck! ;)
I used a 27C1001, I'm not quite sure of the speed rating of it but I can only assume it was the correct speed for this application since I bought it from Marmaliser instead of burning it myself.
Very much the same situation with the RAM chips, they were the same NEC Japan chips that came with the pedal (XP-400) and along with a fourth one of the same type they all worked perfectly fine when using the separate EPROMs.
As for U8, I'm not using a 100 for this so that shouldn't be an issue.
I was about to post several photos like I said I would, so you can check out the pile of spaghetti that is my wiring. I should note that I followed the wiring schematic in the 2 part PDF aside from the indicator LEDs.
Quotehttps://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/4tzBsBdqW5at0wGSLudyJPP3S8uV7TfU/IMAG0191.jpg
https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/z7ZDcbA6S51JrXkUGPsPdr6HOLGdwdsW/IMAG0194.jpg
https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/vTgLlVris27xpvJ0jN4Yha11qb5VG6V9/IMAG0196.jpg
https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/OIlX8CxfH3gpCEwu3zqR5dc6BTuElr2T/IMAG0192.jpg
https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/f2kzzrtP58HXdWxArNc5xplpcZtjKMJu/IMAG0193.jpg
https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/GXPlfOb62hEeftkPCg51LoFfvDE03a35/IMAG0195.jpg
I finally got my XP-All+ up and running with all the programs working, after putting it off for the longest time.
I took another look at it and found that I had the same issue with mine as Mitchschaft had, whereby none of the other channels would work if the XP was booted up with the switch in XP100 mode. Unfortunately I had to fix this but cutting the wires from the relay to the R30 pad (which proves that the alternative I did of placing the wires on pins 2 and 3 of the transistor directly beneath it provides the same effect).
I also had an issue whereby both the 300 and 400 switch modes would output the audio of the 400, I narrowed this issue down to a jumper that wasn't connected properly to pin 16 on the switch going to Pin 16 on the 27C1001. Thanks for all the info and help you have all shared!
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on November 24, 2015, 10:28:17 AM
Just a heads up....
If anyone is looking for some EEPROMs (the 27C256) to be burned and shipped to you... hit me up with a PM. I have a ton of them and will not use all of them. Not free but.. we can work out the details. 8)
GL
Does this offer still stand? If so I'll take a couple of them.
PM sent.
XP-200 to XP-300 mod in process.
I installed my 18-pin DIP sockets yesterday. I'm awaiting receipt of 3 Tantalum caps from Digikey and some RAM chips coming from China.
I've made contact with Greg (Govmnt_Lacky) to get an XP-300 EEPROM burned. I can't wait to get this all sorted out electrically...then I'll probably strip the pedal and repaint it.
I 'll probably remove the Bypass switch and plastic actuator assembly and replace it with a real momentary switch on a new plate. I had an XP-100 10 years ago or so and I did this same mod to replace a bad switch. Need to figure out how to do the same for the Up/Down switch since it's placed on top of the PCB.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2hr2wq8.jpg)
Seeing as the solder points for the switch are reachable on the underside I'm guessing you can just desolder the switch, cover the existing hole with something (JB weld?) and fit the switch in the space below the board.
Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. There is a vendor in Germany that sells replacement kits for these. They include the plastic cover, spring, and switch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitech-Push-Button-Cap-Repair-kit-Control-One-GSP-2101-FC-2120-RP6-RP7-RP10-/252324564207?hash=item3abfb74cef:g:6oUAAOSwxvxW7DyL (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitech-Push-Button-Cap-Repair-kit-Control-One-GSP-2101-FC-2120-RP6-RP7-RP10-/252324564207?hash=item3abfb74cef:g:6oUAAOSwxvxW7DyL)
OR....
I could send you some replacement 12mm tactile switches to replace the bad ones....
Your call but let me know quick because I am going to be sending out those EEPROMs to you soon. ;)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 31, 2016, 09:17:59 AM
OR....
I could send you some replacement 12mm tactile switches to replace the bad ones....
Your call but let me know quick because I am going to be sending out those EEPROMs to you soon. ;)
Now THAT'S service! :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 31, 2016, 09:17:59 AM
OR....
I could send you some replacement 12mm tactile switches to replace the bad ones....
Your call but let me know quick because I am going to be sending out those EEPROMs to you soon. ;)
I truly appreciate the offer, but no thanks. The stock switches work ok.
I just have never liked those plastic actuators with the tact switches. It's a FEEL thing.
I prefer these:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/34djw4p.jpg)
My EEPROMs arrived today.
BIG thanks to Govmnt_Lacky for the fast turnaround!
SUCCESS!
My XP-200 is now an XP-300.
Thanks again to GOVMNT_LACKY for the EEPROMs. I greatly appreciate it.
Next step is to replace the switches. The Program select switch is definitely janky.
Quote from: Ground Control on April 11, 2016, 08:47:17 PM
SUCCESS!
My XP-200 is now an XP-300.
Thanks again to GOVMNT_LACKY for the EEPROMs. I greatly appreciate it.
Next step is to replace the switches. The Program select switch is definitely janky.
Good deal!
Good luck with using those soft touch stomps. When and if you do it, share some pics here. I know I am curious as to how you will incorporate them.
Hello! I've done a good amount of research, and am ready to start picking up the components to mod my xp200, could I get a hand on the EEPROM, and reccommends for the other additional components? I'd be more than glad to compensate for the trouble. JamesCliffordDrake@gmail.com
Anybody happen to have any spares of the 27C1001 adapter PCBs that marmaliser made? I am looking for 2 of them for projects and don't want to have to do a PCB fab order. I'm in the US.
PM me if you have them and we will work out the details ;)
I have two that I populated. They aren't perfect and I haven't tested them.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on April 20, 2016, 09:30:16 AM
Anybody happen to have any spares of the 27C1001 adapter PCBs that marmaliser made? I am looking for 2 of them for projects and don't want to have to do a PCB fab order. I'm in the US.
PM me if you have them and we will work out the details ;)
Happy to pop two in the post free gratis for you . PM me your addy
Quote from: mitchschaft on April 20, 2016, 09:40:09 AM
I have two that I populated. They aren't perfect and I haven't tested them.
Thanks but I am looking for just the PCBs. I have all of the other items ready to go.
Appreciate the offer though... ;)
I got my new momentary footswitches installed today. They work great!
Grossly over-simplified instructions:
Step 1: Remove Main PCB from the chassis. There is 1 screw internally and the 3 nuts on the audio jacks hold it in place. Be careful not to damage the treadle LED on the way out.
Step 2: Unscrew the lower Bypass footswitch PCB assembly from the chassis (2 screws).
Step 3: Remove the plastic footswitch actuators. With a small slotted screwdriver, push on the plastic bits that hold it in place.
Step 4: Unsolder the 2 wires that connect the footswitch PCB to the main PCB.
Step 5: Unsolder the Program Select tactile switch from the bottom side of the Main PCB. You'll reuse the 2 left-most holes on the top side for the new switch.
Step 6: Drill an appropriate hole in the chassis just below the Main PCB.
Step 7: Drill holes in metal footswitch mounting plate to match hole pattern on chassis.
Step 8: Install jacks & plate on chassis
Step 9: Solder wires from new switches to Main PCB
Removed the plastic footswitches & Drilled new upper footswitch hole:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/29beg0p.jpg)
Unsoldered the existing switches:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/8xjyw9.jpg)
Unused parts when done:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/syrv3t.jpg)
New footswitch plate:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/x2t7o5.jpg)
Footswitches mounted after drilling:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/11uci1w.jpg)
Soldered Footswitch wires:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/34gn3n5.jpg)
Done!
(http://i63.tinypic.com/33u5ruf.jpg)
Video of it in action:
QuoteGrossly over-simplified instructions:
No such thing.
Every document or manual I've ever written, I wrote with the same intention, and yet, there always happens to be questions that come back to put that premise in doubt. :icon_mrgreen:
Great work! :icon_biggrin:
Just hopping in again to say that the pins S and G on Q7 (directly down and left from the R30 smd pads) works as a point to connect the relay to enable 100 mode stereo output, seems like a better solder point for making this work.
I Wanted to thank marmaliser, digi2t and Govmnt_Lacky for their time and effort in this mod.
When i bought a xp-400 just for fun i had no idea there was this mod that could make it into the crazy pedal called the xp-all.
With the help of marmaliser who supplied me with literaly anything (ram, eeprom, socket pcb etc.) and a day soldering with help of the guide my xp-all was alive and roaring. I probably will post a few pics of the guts and still have to finish the stereo part with the relay, but that has a rather low priority :P
Thank you all !
Wonderful news!!! Enjoy your XP-ALL!! :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: MüThing on May 14, 2016, 05:32:29 PM
Just hopping in again to say that the pins S and G on Q7 (directly down and left from the R30 smd pads) works as a point to connect the relay to enable 100 mode stereo output, seems like a better solder point for making this work.
I just saw this post. I'll take a look at this. If so, I'll take some pictures when I have a moment, and edit the build doc.
I've been checking the schematics for the XPs, and I've noticed there's two test points labelled TP1 and TP2. They're connected to the pins LAV and LMV respectively on the DSP chip (TMS57070). Anyone tried hooking them up to a meter or scope?
Hey all,
Just finished reading this whole thread, and I think I understand what I need to do to make my XP100 into an XP300. Is anyone still able to burn an eeprom chip and send it to Australia?
Quote from: chewyjustice on December 15, 2016, 04:50:43 AM
Hey all,
Just finished reading this whole thread, and I think I understand what I need to do to make my XP100 into an XP300. Is anyone still able to burn an eeprom chip and send it to Australia?
To be totally honest, unless you can find someone locally to burn it for you..... it would be comparable in price to just buy an EEPROM burner and do it yourself. Seriously.
After the price of the chip and shipping (from most locations) it would add up to about the same costs.
Food for thought. ;D
Something else to chew on...
When talking about burning a chip locally for this project, I think one's mind might stall at "I need to find someone that works on pedals, effects, consumer electronics, etc.". Chip burners are really big with auto tuners too. Know anyone that does some tuning in their spare time? Maybe a local dyno shop? Call them up, chances are they might have a burner. Slip them the .bin file, the chip, and a couple of bucks (maybe a 6'er of beer if it's really hot out), I can't see them not being more than happy to burn your chip for you.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 15, 2016, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: chewyjustice on December 15, 2016, 04:50:43 AM
Hey all,
Just finished reading this whole thread, and I think I understand what I need to do to make my XP100 into an XP300. Is anyone still able to burn an eeprom chip and send it to Australia?
To be totally honest, unless you can find someone locally to burn it for you..... it would be comparable in price to just buy an EEPROM burner and do it yourself. Seriously.
After the price of the chip and shipping (from most locations) it would add up to about the same costs.
Food for thought. ;D
Thanks for the idea. I thought it would be a waste to buy it and use it only once, but it might be worth it if i can get one cheap
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Quote from: digi2t on December 15, 2016, 11:35:17 AM
Something else to chew on...
When talking about burning a chip locally for this project, I think one's mind might stall at "I need to find someone that works on pedals, effects, consumer electronics, etc.". Chip burners are really big with auto tuners too. Know anyone that does some tuning in their spare time? Maybe a local dyno shop? Call them up, chances are they might have a burner. Slip them the .bin file, the chip, and a couple of bucks (maybe a 6'er of beer if it's really hot out), I can't see them not being more than happy to burn your chip for you.
Hmmmm great idea. I'll have to have a look around and see if this is an option
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Hi everyone,
a bit OT, hope you don't mind.
I have a bypass problem in my pedal. It never goes bypass basically.
Can someone measure the voltage on R13 (on the "via" side) while pedal is active AND while pedal is in bypass? I'm getting weird voltages, would be helpful to double check with a working unit.
Thanks in advance!
Quote from: qwerty8787 on January 06, 2017, 12:47:58 PM
Can someone measure the voltage on R13 (on the "via" side) while pedal is active AND while pedal is in bypass?
Here you go, the via end of R13 should be 5 volts in bypass and 0 volts when the the effect is on. The via end is connected to pin 8 of the SC80C31 chip, so you should get the same voltages there as well. I'd guess the most likely problem is a bad bypass switch, or bad connection from the switch PCB to the main board.
Thanks everyone for making this happen. I dusted off my broken xp100 and recently repaired it to stock. Anyone know the best place to find the capacitors and jfets needed for a straight xp300 conversion in Canada? Can I substitute j1113a(as listed in xp300 schematic) with j113?
Cheers
Quote from: clayton9610 on January 15, 2017, 02:48:12 PM
Thanks everyone for making this happen. I dusted off my broken xp100 and recently repaired it to stock. Anyone know the best place to find the capacitors and jfets needed for a straight xp300 conversion in Canada? Can I substitute j1113a(as listed in xp300 schematic) with j113?
Cheers
Yes... you can use J113.
Keep in mind that to convert from XP100 to XP300 there are more parts than just caps and JFETs needed. ;)
If you are in Canada, I suggest contacting "digi2t" for a link to parts sourcing. I heard he is like the Canadian Godfather of DIY ;D :icon_lol:
He's the reason I have a working xp300 now! He sent me the chip a while back but I had broken two of its pins among other mishaps.
I have the xp100 version with the program stored in the eprom and the u8 smd ic already soldered in. I fixed numerous broken traces, repaired the eprom pins, and haphazardly wired capacitors with missized/broken leads and now have the xp300(in mono).
I am blown away by the effects. I thought it was just hype and had almost given up the mod. So grateful for everyone's contribution.
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 17, 2017, 09:34:24 AM
If you are in Canada, I suggest contacting "digi2t" for a link to parts sourcing. I heard he is like the Canadian Godfather of DIY ;D :icon_lol:
I think that title rightfully belongs to Mark Hammer. I'll be more than happy with the "Court Jester" title though. :icon_mrgreen:
Mouser has them in stock.
http://ca.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/_/N-awhng?Keyword=j113&FS=True (http://ca.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/_/N-awhng?Keyword=j113&FS=True)
Thanks everyone for this great resource. I have my xp100 space station convert working perfectly now and its just as great as i was hoping for.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
That's what I like to hear! :icon_biggrin:
Finished mine! Just an XP-200 converted to XP-300 with output volume mod. I can post pics if anyone wants. I painted mine.
Question: Is setting #9 "octabass" mostly useless? I am getting almost zero octave down effect. Other than that, its really cool!
Seeing as you have gone to the trouble of painting it lets have a look :)
Yes #9 "octabass" is mostly useless.
Revisiting this thread 2 years after completing a dual 100/300 build. I don't use the stereo capabilities and, as such, I can't remember if I ever tested the stereo output on the space station side. I just tested it, and I get a crackly, low-output signal from the "dry" output in both 100 and 300 modes. I'm confused about what this would mean, since I thought I killed the 100's dry output when I did the mod, and thought that it should work in space station mode. This in-between result is hurting my head.
Can someone (@Govmnt_Lacky (I'm not worthy)) summarize the part of the mod necessary to get stereo working in space station mode? It's fine if the dry output is sacrificed in whammy mode.
My understanding was that I needed to install C63, Q5, Q10, and remove R30. I thought I did that, but I'll check again. Is there anything else? Would a mistake on one of the other mod components affect stereo output?
As silly as it may sound, check if the crackly output is the same on every program. If it only occurs on a few such as the Synth Strings but not on Octabass then it may be a RAM issue.
Ensure that the R30 jumper is removed. If you installed the other components, then 300 mode should be stereo, and 100 mode nothing. Maybe bad jfets? Or...
Quote from: MüThing on July 06, 2017, 12:22:53 PM
As silly as it may sound, check if the crackly output is the same on every program. If it only occurs on a few such as the Synth Strings but not on Octabass then it may be a RAM issue.
I concur. Check chip speed. Ensure that it is not slower than what's prescribed in the build doc. If the distortion is only on certain patches, and you have spare SDRAM chips, then use another chip, and swap it in. Process of elimination to check if you have a bad SDRAM chip. Not all the patches use all the memory, some are heavier than others, so MuThing's point is valid.
Hi guys, I have followed through this thread and made notes and have gone over the posted instructions - thanks to everyone who has contributed and for making this information available.
I have a long question - please confirm that the correct wiring for the piggy-backed eproms is to have all of the like numbered pins on each eprom soldered together (e.g. pin 01-01, pin 02-02, etc.) (with or without sockets) except for the following:
1) solder a wire to the hole for eprom pin 20 in the circuit board only - (this wire goes to the pedal function selector switch)
2) bend pin 20 on each eprom and solder a wire to this pin - these wires also go to the pedal function selector switch
3) solder a 10K 1/4W 1% metal film resistor between pin 28 and pin 20 on each eprom
Please let me know if I have these details correct and thanks,
Peter
Quote from: plbuzz on December 27, 2017, 08:12:34 PM
Hi guys, I have followed through this thread and made notes and have gone over the posted instructions - thanks to everyone who has contributed and for making this information available.
I have a long question - please confirm that the correct wiring for the piggy-backed eproms is to have all of the like numbered pins on each eprom soldered together (e.g. pin 01-01, pin 02-02, etc.) (with or without sockets) except for the following:
1) solder a wire to the hole for eprom pin 20 in the circuit board only - (this wire goes to the pedal function selector switch)
2) bend pin 20 on each eprom and solder a wire to this pin - these wires also go to the pedal function selector switch
3) solder a 10K 1/4W 1% metal film resistor between pin 28 and pin 20 on each eprom
Please let me know if I have these details correct and thanks,
Peter
Covered in the XP-ALL build doc;
Part 1 - http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51928)
Part 2 - http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931 (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51931)
Even if you don't piggyback all 4 modes, same rules apply for 2 or 3 modes. There's even a nice sketch on page 29 that gives you the lay of the land. :icon_wink:
Happy new year guys :) Just joined the forum.
I've just bought an XP-100 and a bunch of parts for one of these conversions, and I've been looking at the code for the XP-100 in a program called IDA. I'm one of those nerds who would reverse-engineer assembly.
I reckon it's possible to make the XP-ALL mod stable with user-presets by modifying the code. Change it to either save presets for each mode separately, or have the presets mean the same number in each mode. I've only just began scratching the surface with the disassembly but it's actually quite a small program. Especially for the XP-100.
Similarly, it may be possible to make the XP-100 compatible with stereo audio via code edits. All it needs is a few extra instructions to control the MOSFET. These are things I think I could do.
Any more ideas? I'll keep digging until I get my unit, build an EEPROM programmer, and do the conversion.
I have found some very weird things in the code so far. There seems to be a lot of data (non-code) that when I force IDA to interpret it as code, looks quite convincing. But it's full of NOPs, which are instructions that do nothing. Example:
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/A_pEZQRUS_muCSkn5t4_BA.png)
This 'data' has lots of structure to it and could very well be code remnants from development! I doubt it could become anything like a missing feature or an easter egg, but still cool.
Hi there. From all the feedback I've ever received on the XP-ALL or XP-ALL+, user preset retention is probably the biggest query.
As it stands now, you CAN save presets within each mode, but the caveat is that if you set a patch in memory, and it exceeds, or does not exist within, the patch range of any of the other modes, then all bets are off. Switching to another mode, patches in memory will be shifted to some other patch number.
From what I can see, the patch number memory occurs in one place, somewhere else within the architecture. Maybe some sort of register based memory (I'm spitballing on a limb here... :icon_confused:). Within a single chip, with a defined number of patches environment, it's capable of retaining the patches you save in memory. The conflict comes when you have multiple modes...
- The 100 has a total of 29 patches (numbered 1 to 29).
- The 200 has a total of 36 patches (numbered 1 to 61).
- The 300 has a total of 40 patches (numbered 1 to 40).
- The 400 had a total of 41 patches (numbered 1 to 50).
So.... two flies in the ointment here; 1, no two modes has the same number of patches. 2, two modes skip patch numbers.
Hence.... when you only have one memory place to retain patch numbers between several different modes, it would be impossible for it to be able to retain numbers that you programmed from one mode, if those numbers are out of range, or non-existent, in the next mode you go to.
As it stands now, if you can program 6 user patches, and the unit will retain them IF, those 6 patch numbers are common to ALL four (or however many modes you mod your XP to have) modes.
As for your views on the stereo switching angle (I'm going from memory here, pardon the pun), I think that's also set by resistance presence on the board, so I'm not totally convinced that a simple code adjustment will get the job done. You still need to physically switch that MOSFET, which is what the rotary selector is doing anyway.
Regardless.... I watch... with bated breath. :icon_cool:
Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 01, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Similarly, it may be possible to make the XP-100 compatible with stereo audio via code edits. All it needs is a few extra instructions to control the MOSFET. These are things I think I could do.
Quote from: digi2t on January 02, 2018, 09:12:50 AM
As for your views on the stereo switching angle (I'm going from memory here, pardon the pun), I think that's also set by resistance presence on the board, so I'm not totally convinced that a simple code adjustment will get the job done. You still need to physically switch that MOSFET, which is what the rotary selector is doing anyway.
The reason why the stereo output is not functional in XP100 mode is because of the coding within the CPU (either the SMD CPU or the EEPROM from older units)
The coding is what tells the CPU to command the audio processor to emit the audio in stereo. If someone can figure out the coding difference between the XP100 and the other platforms then it might be possible. The hang up has been the work/reward ratio. Is it really worth all the effort just to gain XP100 in stereo?
Figuring out the preset storage would be of more benefit for sure. 8)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 02, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 01, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Similarly, it may be possible to make the XP-100 compatible with stereo audio via code edits. All it needs is a few extra instructions to control the MOSFET. These are things I think I could do.
Quote from: digi2t on January 02, 2018, 09:12:50 AM
As for your views on the stereo switching angle (I'm going from memory here, pardon the pun), I think that's also set by resistance presence on the board, so I'm not totally convinced that a simple code adjustment will get the job done. You still need to physically switch that MOSFET, which is what the rotary selector is doing anyway.
The reason why the stereo output is not functional in XP100 mode is because of the coding within the CPU (either the SMD CPU or the EEPROM from older units)
The coding is what tells the CPU to command the audio processor to emit the audio in stereo. If someone can figure out the coding difference between the XP100 and the other platforms then it might be possible. The hang up has been the work/reward ratio. Is it really worth all the effort just to gain XP100 in stereo?
Figuring out the preset storage would be of more benefit for sure. 8)
Amen Brother Lacky. Amen. :icon_lol:
On work/reward... I honestly think that stereo XP-100 would be considerable easier. It's not something I've particularly tried to look at so far but I'll have a poke and see what's up.
The EEPROM that stores user presets and calibration info may not be big enough to store 6 numbers for each of the 4 modes. I'll have to play with it and see if there's any space in the tiny 128 byte baby. Saying that, I haven't seen any code writing or reading to an address bigger than 42 so it may have loads of space.
Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 02, 2018, 12:59:34 PM
The EEPROM that stores user presets and calibration info may not be big enough to store 6 numbers for each of the 4 modes. I'll have to play with it and see if there's any space in the tiny 128 byte baby. Saying that, I haven't seen any code writing or reading to an address bigger than 42 so it may have loads of space.
This is why the attempt has languished for so long :-\
Too many hurdles to overcome. The fact that the component is SMD scares most away. Now, factor in that it will most likely need to be replaced with something with more memory AND a larger footprint and just about everyone else is gone.
Now on to the hard part... ::)
Now, you have to make sure that the CPU talks properly to the new EEPROM (addresses presets correctly, powers appropriate sectors when needed, language, etc.
It would be wonderful if a through hole equivalent could be used (prefer single solution over multiple pieces of the same IC) and easily adapted to the XP PCB.
Good luck. I'll be keeping my eye out for any revelations....
Update! The EEPROM may be tiny, but there's less than 13 bytes of information actually stored on it!
Based on the XP-100 and 300 code, I drew out this memory map for it:
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/swxyTx6mRy6jcno67pAyUw.png)
Less than half of the address space is really used, so it's really possible to have separate presets for each XP.
Makes me wonder how Digitech chose 6 user presets. They clearly weren't near any kind of physical limit. For the EEPROM anyway... IDA tells me that none of the RAM locations between 0x61 and 0x7F are used.
I'll see about modifying the XP-300 code to use different EEPROM locations. Are you guys in a position to test a new binary? I won't have my hands on a unit for some time.
Alright! 8) That only took a bit more than an hour. I modified the XP-100 binary because I'm much more familiar with it. The theory is:
For saves and reads to the EEPROM:
is the address between 0 and 5 (preset locations)?
if so, add 6 to the address
continue as normal
I put just 11 commands at 0x3070 that should do exactly that. The first idea I had involved changing the meaning of some RAM locations which was a pretty dumb first thought. I'm happy with this solution. It puts the XP-100 presets at locations 6-11 instead of the normal 0-5.
So it's on my OneDrive at https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtZBAUZdlxZviJR99BNbF-AJNTsrOQ (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtZBAUZdlxZviJR99BNbF-AJNTsrOQ). Please have a go and see if it works!
This won't address any weirdness when changing from XP-100 to something else where it tries to load up the preset you last used. I can probably do something about that as well though...? ???
Since there are 20 memory slots available, is it possible to assign 5 per mode? Example; 0-4 for 100 mode, 5-9 for 200 mode, etc? I know that would require reducing the user saved patches from 6 to 5, but 5 should be enough... and better than none. :icon_wink:
Sorry in advance for the noob question. I'm really outta my league here. :icon_rolleyes:
Ah you see I only showed the used data on the EEPROM there. The addresses go up to 64. We could store 12 or more for each mode!
Even if we didn't have the space all the way to 64, there's enough room for 4x 6 locations. Addresses 23-28 has exactly the right amount of space for 1 mode.
Not a noob question! Problem exists between chalk and blackboard :)
I like where this is going. One point to make....
If there is a way to store preset numbers in different 'blocks' within the 94-series EEPROM then each of the XP programs (on the 27C1001) will need to be modified to look at the different areas of the 94-series EEPROM. Right now, all of the XP programs are written to look at the exact same area of the EEPROM for the presets. That would need to be changed and individualized for the 200, 300, and 400 programs.
Yes. Did you see my reply #667?
Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 03, 2018, 09:11:56 AM
Yes. Did you see my reply #667?
Just did ::) I see what you did there...
This is starting to heat up. Now, I am wondering if there is a way to program the EEPROM on-board the XP pcbs ???
ah shit whoops :-\
I forgot that the XP-100 was in a masked ROM. Unfortunately they're one time programmable. I'll have a go at editing the XP-300 binary and upload that soon.
I've been looking at stereo in XP-100 and it looks like it has all the functionality there... very strange. Registers P32 and P17 control wet/dry output and they're both edited 8 times by both the 100 and 300.
Done! I haven't had a thorough look at the result of this one because it's a pain in the ass, but the editing was much faster since I'd already coded it.
I chose location 12-17 for this one as it's the third XP 8)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtZBAUZdlxZviJYlG2nrMCyKnKW3rw (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtZBAUZdlxZviJYlG2nrMCyKnKW3rw)
So... if I understand this correctly....
Once you adjust the code in each bin, I can burn a new 27C1001. Plop into my XP-ALL+, and I should be able to store 6 user preset for each mode, and they will be retained. Regardless of patch number.
Right?
I hope! Of course this most recent one I've done is just for the XP-300 to store its presets in a different place to the others. So your 100, 200, and 400 presets will still get mixed up. If it works on the XP-300 then I can spend a couple hours doing the same mod to the other binaries and then you should be able to store 6 presets for each mode, individually.
OK. PM sent btw. Just a head's up.
Maybe new sounds and space effects for the 300 or are we talking about something completely different?
Quote from: Prehistoricman on January 01, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Happy new year guys :) Just joined the forum.
I've just bought an XP-100 and a bunch of parts for one of these conversions, and I've been looking at the code for the XP-100 in a program called IDA. I'm one of those nerds who would reverse-engineer assembly.
I reckon it's possible to make the XP-ALL mod stable with user-presets by modifying the code. Change it to either save presets for each mode separately, or have the presets mean the same number in each mode. I've only just began scratching the surface with the disassembly but it's actually quite a small program. Especially for the XP-100.
Similarly, it may be possible to make the XP-100 compatible with stereo audio via code edits. All it needs is a few extra instructions to control the MOSFET. These are things I think I could do.
Any more ideas? I'll keep digging until I get my unit, build an EEPROM programmer, and do the conversion.
I have found some very weird things in the code so far. There seems to be a lot of data (non-code) that when I force IDA to interpret it as code, looks quite convincing. But it's full of NOPs, which are instructions that do nothing. Example:
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/A_pEZQRUS_muCSkn5t4_BA.png)
This 'data' has lots of structure to it and could very well be code remnants from development! I doubt it could become anything like a missing feature or an easter egg, but still cool.
Quote from: mongo on January 14, 2018, 06:42:41 PM
Maybe new sounds and space effects for the 300 or are we talking about something completely different?
I've since found that all of that is actually real data that's sent to the DSP. Nothing hidden in the code here folks :( Although it is interesting that it closely represents code.
As I said in our new XP-ALLin thread, I'm getting a unit soon and I'll play with the DSP code. I've already tested a DSP mod to the XP-100 with digi2t and it did... something. The space station is a much more complicated effect though.
Hello!
sorry for reviving an old thread.
I asked this a million times in the past, but i was not able economy-wise to close the deal.
Now that im working, i have a more stable economy base.
What i wanted to know is where can i get the 4164 ram memory. I need 4
I would rather gather them from some forum user than from an internet supplier as i live in Argentina and not all supplier ships everywhere, but if i cant get them from a user, i can try askin to the supplier.
Ill leave my email in case anyone wants to get in touch, or else please leave your suggestion in this post and ill try to get the chips.
Thanks in advance.
fran.dhs at hotmail dot com
Just a heads up to anyone planning to do a mod to their Digitech XP....
I happen to have an excess of parts from mods that I have done and I am willing to let any of it go on the cheap. Items that I have are:
- Pre-stacked 256 EEPROM chips with the 4 XP programs on them (this is 4 ICs stacked for the original type of XP ALL builds)
- Several 256 EEPROMs with XP200 programs on them and a few with the XP400 program on it..
- Custom adapter PCBs for the rotary switches for the original mod builds (you can even incorporate an RGB LED if you want with this PCB)
I have other items as well. Just ask... ;)
I don't remember the adapter pcb but I am interested in a few.
Quote from: mitchschaft on March 19, 2019, 03:15:03 PM
I don't remember the adapter pcb but I am interested in a few.
It is essentially an etched PCB that goes onto the rotary and breaks out the connections. It also allows you to incorporate an RGB LED (with a few resistors and diodes) to use as a mode indicator.
i would like as well to order one for pedals. is this already still on board
<spam link removed>
Are you looking for this?
https://www.deadendfx.com/product/xp-all-adapter-board (https://www.deadendfx.com/product/xp-all-adapter-board)