Just curious.....I've got a few ideas for stereo effects. Just wondering how many people use or would consider using stereo, even for home/studio use if not actually for gigging.
My practice gear is guitar-->Zoom multiFX (I've got a lot of them, 2020, 3030, 9000, 2100, ecc)-->PC soundboard.
That way I can practice till late night thru my headphones and enjoy the stereo FX of the Zoom,
So yes, it could be interesting for me...
I used to, until I got tired of hauling around 2 amps. I ran my roto machine and delay in stereo.
I usually do, since I almost always use at least two amps.
Tip? I'm interested, i'm using Boss GT10 mostly in two channel type preamp stereo L/R mode with some dlytime ms on one channel.
when I play with my computer i use the stereo outputs of my zoom 505II (now i'm using it like a pod) or when i use my entire pedalboard i use the outputs of ibanez de7. One channel for dry signal, and the other one for the delayed signal. Sometimes (when the other guitar player doesn't come with us) I use two amplifier. I can create a little wall of sound that is useful in some situation!
....I don't play much anymore,but when I do I use two different Casio synth guitars connected to Alesis NanoPiano and Nano Synth;I use a pedalboard with a PDS 20/20 at the end to get pseudo-stereo into two '65 Fender Deluxes with 12" JBL's.....its pretty good sounding to me.... :)
I got myself a nice little stereo Fender SK20. Not a spectacular amp as amps go, but light and portable (a whole lot lighter than a JC120), has two power amps, one per speaker, and a loop insert point that will operate in mono-send/stereo-return. Makes running in stereo a breeze.
I always record in stereo (I hate losing the "spontaneity" of a track by double tracking the guitars -- and I play pretty "off the cuff" so it's hard to replay a take exactly as I just played it). For gigging, I would like to but usually it's too much of a hassle (and no one seems to notice a difference anyway -- they just want to see you play behind your head, with your teeth, jump around, etc.). But in a perfect world, I would always run stereo.
And for more specifics...
I run my guitar into various pedals, then at the end into a Boss stereo chorus that splits the signal and then into a Boss stereo delay. So my signal is really just split at the end and really only to widen the sound. I have the chorus set pretty mellow. So, it's not like I make HUGE use of stereo imaging or ping-ponging or panning or anything. It just makes the guitar bigger.
Hope this helps.
-Joe Hart
I always try to work in stereo,,
And if I can't (to much hassle), I get moody.. >:(
(I'd rather do my stuff in surround sound)
I sometimes run in four amps at the same time, two have little delay between them and the two others have just a bit of stereo chorus.
A fun little trick is to have your "main" rig, and then slave out to a little practice amp, pointing in a different direction. With the right sized room and good reflections, it can make a much larger sound than the big amp alone.
The few times I've done this I was really impressed with the impression of big-ness.
Quote from: Joe Hart on October 21, 2008, 11:15:26 AM
I run my guitar into various pedals, then at the end into a Boss stereo chorus that splits the signal and then into a Boss stereo delay. So my signal is really just split at the end and really only to widen the sound. I have the chorus set pretty mellow. So, it's not like I make HUGE use of stereo imaging or ping-ponging or panning or anything. It just makes the guitar bigger.
I'm curious how many people actually run complete stereo. I would say that there's probably a big difference between playing into two amps and having each pickup fed into a different amp. I know Rickenbacker basses have stereo capabilities (each pickup). Any body do this, or is it just too much of a pain when it comes to effects?
I had a long think about stereo when I found out about the Rickenbacker thing. I also knew that it would be relatively easy to make that mod on any guitar (add a tone control and a jack). I'm only using a 112 watt (I think) amp right now, which isn't too terribly much for a bass, so I decided it made no sense for me to consider it any more right now.
Guitar - Rat - Yamaha SPX50 set to early reflection, this gives a wonderful stereo spread and at the volume I have it through headphones, all other noise (including my wife shouting up the stairs that dinner is ready!!) is cut out. To my ears, it simulates playing through a couple of loud Marshall stacks - having reached up to plug in of course!
:)
or should that be
:) :)
Over the years, my live rig has gone from super-stereo to single amp and now back to simple 2-amp stereo and probably next to a combination stereo.
To clarify, right now, I've been playing through two amps; a Fender '63 Vibroverb RI and a Roland JC77, fed from the stereo outs of my Line 6 DL-4. The Roland is more for a stage wash, and the Vibroverb is mic'd to the PA. For bigger shows, I swap out an AC30 for the Vibroverb.
I've used the Fender Satellite (http://people.berklee.edu/~jlynn/guitars/dyna_sfx.jpg) with my Blues Deville once or twice to get spatial stereo effects as well.
My next move might be to have a separate pedalboard with delays and reverb sent to another amp on stage. This would be fed from a volume pedal, so basically I can keep a drier, more focused sound coming out of my main amp and have a big swirling mess coming from the secondary amp.
Roger
I've been playing with 2 amps since 15 yrs ago. Nowadays it's 2x Randall RG200G3 combos.
I love chorus and pan delays, so it's a no brainer. There's no way I would go back to mono now, sounds much more spread and open....almost breathing
DOwnside to it is that whenever I check for new amps I always must think list price x2 :icon_neutral:
Quote from: Radamus on October 23, 2008, 03:55:02 AM
Quote from: Joe Hart on October 21, 2008, 11:15:26 AM
I run my guitar into various pedals, then at the end into a Boss stereo chorus that splits the signal and then into a Boss stereo delay. So my signal is really just split at the end and really only to widen the sound. I have the chorus set pretty mellow. So, it's not like I make HUGE use of stereo imaging or ping-ponging or panning or anything. It just makes the guitar bigger.
I'm curious how many people actually run complete stereo. I would say that there's probably a big difference between playing into two amps and having each pickup fed into a different amp. I know Rickenbacker basses have stereo capabilities (each pickup). Any body do this, or is it just too much of a pain when it comes to effects?
I had a long think about stereo when I found out about the Rickenbacker thing. I also knew that it would be relatively easy to make that mod on any guitar (add a tone control and a jack). I'm only using a 112 watt (I think) amp right now, which isn't too terribly much for a bass, so I decided it made no sense for me to consider it any more right now.
Yeah, but then when you switch to only one pickup it comes out mono right? I wouldn't want that...
Running with two amps even with no "stereoification" due to fx still produces a bigger fatter sound, esp with distortion. I think the ultimate "stereo fx" sound (besides delay) is using a pitch-shifter for a slight detune. I use my PS-5 detune function or HOG (with the expr pedal slightly pushed in "whammy" mode) for that effect.
Anyone into Leslie effects? Or stereo tremolo? Or stereo vibrato? Or stereo ping pong delay?
I've used 2 amps for some stereo delay on stage a couple times, but I haven't really gone back to it--like most people say, it's just not worth carrying around 2 80lb amps just to get 'that' sound.
If someone carries my gear for me, I'll play in stereo all the time :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: frequencycentral on October 23, 2008, 01:30:09 PM
Anyone into Leslie effects? Or stereo tremolo? Or stereo vibrato? Or stereo ping pong delay?
In 1980, my band played a gig where I had a dual amp setup. I had one amp (my trusty Princeton) driving a Vibra-tone (Leslie) cabinet on slow speed, and the other amp (a Valco) set to slow tremolo on the other side of me. I cannot think of a time when I have been less able to remember the words to songs.
Ping-pong effects are fun to listen to, but disorienting to play
with, simply because they command too much attention. You can reduce the attentional demand they pose in a few ways. One is certainly to have the speakers/amps closer together. For example, some older amplified cabs for Fender Rhodes pianos appeared to have a kind of ping-pong tremolo on board, but because the speakers were all in the same cab, you noticed the swirl but were not too distracted by it. Same goes for the old JC-120/60 amps; the speakers were far enough apart that the chorus felt bigger, but not so far apart that the sound was over "here" then over "there".
The other way to address distraction-via-movement is to reduce the modulation depth and make the contrast smaller between the two channels competing for your ears.
Quote from: DougH on October 21, 2008, 06:41:44 AM
I used to, until I got tired of hauling around 2 amps. I ran my roto machine and delay in stereo.
+1 !!!!
had to haul around a JCM800 AND a twin reverb for so many years... 0_o
I fooled with a stereo rig for a while, consisting basically of a silverface Deluxe Reverb and a Champ 25 SE, stereo care of an Alesis Nanoverb and/or a Danelectro Cool Cat chorus. I had the switching set up so I could use either amp as the master, with some dedicated effects for each "channel". This was a lot of fun to fool with at home, made some way cool sounds, but way too complex (for me) and vulnerable for gigging or even rehearsal/jamming.
Quote from: blanik on October 23, 2008, 01:52:39 PM
Quote from: DougH on October 21, 2008, 06:41:44 AM
I used to, until I got tired of hauling around 2 amps. I ran my roto machine and delay in stereo.
+1 !!!!
had to haul around a JCM800 AND a twin reverb for so many years... 0_o
Yeah, I twisted the wrong way and injured my back carting my 50W SS combo (very heavy) up the stairs. That was the end of the stereo rig for me. It was just to get my own jollies anyway. I wasn't mic'ed up in stereo. Even in my current gig I can't get mic'ed in stereo, so there's no point to it right now. For recording it's great though. And I like Alex's idea of a
small satellite amp. Something like a Roland Cube or something might do the trick.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on October 23, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
In 1980, my band played a gig where I had a dual amp setup. I had one amp (my trusty Princeton) driving a Vibra-tone (Leslie) cabinet on slow speed, and the other amp (a Valco) set to slow tremolo on the other side of me. I cannot think of a time when I have been less able to remember the words to songs.
Wow, I can't sing, let alone sing and play guitar or sing, play guitar, remember the words,
and play in stereo. You're a better man than me. :icon_wink:
Quote from: Mark Hammer on October 23, 2008, 01:51:35 PM
For example, some older amplified cabs for Fender Rhodes pianos appeared to have a kind of ping-pong tremolo on board, but because the speakers were all in the same cab, you noticed the swirl but were not too distracted by it.
I have some records with rhodes like that mic'ed in stereo and panned wide left & right. It's really distracting when you listen with headphones.
My friend and ex band mate had a back surgery some months ago...So he had to sell his JCM900 head...
He bought this one. which is highly reccomended for your backs and for your stereo needs. 100W!!! Hell...
http://www.aadsound.com/AG-100.htm
No need to have a truck, uh?!
I think that the more extreme the effect the harder it is to make it work on stage. When one thing is happening on the left and something else is happening on the right, only the people in the middle are getting the full effect. Unless you are working with a very sophisticated PA and sound man, more subtle effects like chorus, rotating speaker effects and short delays work better than ping-pong and other radical stuff, IMHO.
BTW, when I was fooling with it, one of my favorite effects was the Nanoverb's pseudo-rotating speaker effect--in stereo it was gorgeous, whereas in mono it sounded cheesy.
I run my guitar into the pedalboard, then into a Sans-amp. From there the signals go into a Digitech GSP-21 PRO, and from there to a Lm1875 stereo power amp. This is hooked up to two 1x12 cabinets. Very fun when it comes to panning delays and flangers among other effects. Sounds great too.
I purchased an aluminium cart at Ikea to carry my amps around, it's no big deal and the result is very rewarding.
Or do some more pushups, guys :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Xavier on October 24, 2008, 03:46:36 AM
I purchased an aluminium cart at Ikea to carry my amps around, it's no big deal and the result is very rewarding.
Can you pull your amp up a flight of stairs with it? :icon_mrgreen:
Dual Mono or Stereo.
That'd be the MXR 18V Chorus' stereo outputs, or the Echo Park's.
Even dual mono sounds different than adding a speaker with mono.
scotty moore is using a stereo rig with two peavey classic 30s... :icon_wink:
(http://www.scottymoore.net/images/peavyclassic30.jpg)
and you can even see how he adjusts his pedals for that classic slapback echo ;D
(http://www.scottymoore.net/images/boss1.jpg)
(http://www.scottymoore.net/images/boss2.jpg)
Quote from: Ben N on October 23, 2008, 04:37:41 PM
I think that the more extreme the effect the harder it is to make it work on stage. When one thing is happening on the left and something else is happening on the right, only the people in the middle are getting the full effect. Unless you are working with a very sophisticated PA and sound man, more subtle effects like chorus, rotating speaker effects and short delays work better than ping-pong and other radical stuff, IMHO.
Sorry to play the "as*hole sound man" routine. But...
Ben has a good point I think most of you are missing.
Even thought the PA systems I set up are capable of stereo they are running in mono 99.9% of the time.
The bigger the stage the more likely the PA is working as a mono system.
I often mic up stereo rigs, especially during summer festivals when there isn't a specific band tech rider, and ultimately those two mics are panned up the middle.
So the stereo effect is only heard by the player standing directly in front of their rig.
Running in stereo also sets back the goal of lowering stage volume.
Unless there is a very good reason to run a guitar is stereo, as a live sound engineer, I would prefer not to deal with it.
And if I have to, that stereo signal ends at the pan pot.
I do however, sometimes "ride" the pan pot like I would the fader for the DDL return. Usually at the end of a chorus or song for the effect.
Anytime else it takes away from to the song.
It's been a long time since I've done club and bar gigs but I would imagine that if a player brought in a (loud) stereo rig, the faders on the PA mixer
would be at infinity (off) and only the vocal mics would actually be going through the PA
I wish guitar players would show up with a Blues Jr. Thats an amp I can work with through the PA.
I just finished building a stereo amp in the form of a 16" cube. The speakers (Celestion G12T100s) are mounted in two adjacent sides. The power amp is a clean (2X100 watt RMS) car audio amp powered by a modified PC power supply (which conveniently has a single 25 amp 12v rail). I used an Alesis Nanoverb and Nanocomp as a preamp, 'cause I didn't want build my own reverb, and added a ROG Umble in front of them. The Nanoverb has stereo output which is very apparent in its reverb/chorus effect mode. The whole thing sounds fantastic, and if I ever want to use other stereo effects, I can just plug them in...
Sounds cool!
I was going to suggest mounting the speakers on a corner (with a 90% angle between them) and it sounds like you did that. :icon_wink: IMO the key is to build it to throw the sound around the room, which that accomplishes.
I use a marshall jmp1 into a stereo marshall 50+50 valve power amp (9005) into my 4*12 that i rewired to work in stereo. This was all in the late 80's when all the rack gear was the fashion. i used to run an effects rack in the send return of the jmp1. I now run the same gear but most of my effects are my pedals now that are in line between guitar and preamp. and the only effect i use on the rack now is the reverb and sometimes a stereo delay.
Quote from: earthtonesaudio on October 21, 2008, 12:41:46 PM
A fun little trick is to have your "main" rig, and then slave out to a little practice amp, pointing in a different direction. With the right sized room and good reflections, it can make a much larger sound than the big amp alone.
The few times I've done this I was really impressed with the impression of big-ness.
I got a Boss RV-3 and I've been playing in stereo since.
I play through a Dean Markley transistor amp and my little Harley Benton GA5. The Dean Markley gives me the clarity and punch and volume; the GA5 fills in those gaps, gives more consistency to the sound, and makes my dirt boxes sound better. Stereo delay and reverb is just :o :o
So bottomline, with both amps the sound is larger, more spreaded.
I haven't used this rig with the band, though, but may in the future.
A long time ago I used a twin and a slightly delayed marshal sometimes with pan delay and chorus. What I found was it only worked good on a single point PA setup or LR.............RL. Even with the perfect live stereo setup it's not worth the effort.
For the reasons mentioned above, I consider stereo in a typical live situation as useless. There aren't but 3 or 4 people in the whole club who are going to hear the proper stereo image, even if you convince the soundman to pan your amps out. I can definitely dig 2 parallel effects lines, even into seperate amps, but not so much for stereo purposes. Of course, many of my performances are in atypical situations (like the "PA" is actually the home stereo in a living room) where I sometimes can get away with these types of things.
In recording situations I usually apply all my special stereo effects in the mix (in the box).
I have been known to abuse some leslies. Used to have a Korg ToneWorks leslie simulator as my only amp sim, and it was quite often spinning all over the place.
At home...Ruby & a Pignose...2 delays....different delay times (but synchronized) = wonderful spacious sound...jam for hours.
Live gigs = too much stuff to load & carry...not enough room on stage...if an amp isn't properly grounded you'll get a nasty zap...
and now...yer too loud even though each amp is turned low. Sigh...not worth the effort...crowd doesn't *get it*...things short out....
and then you resolve to *Keep it simple stupid!*
As said before, I run sometimes in quad, but can't handle drastic effects neither (in most cases). The goal is having a sense of depth: you don't have to drive your stereo effects hard to do that. On the other side, if you want a total psychedelic setup, it's an other thing.
When you run in multiple amps/cabs having "switching" effects, the "additional effective" power is not the same as driving two (or four) amps in "straight" mode. So, perhaps you're better with not too distinct, but more blended, and/or overlapping effects. This way you can have two (or more) less powerfull amps playing simultaneously but with less effects, and getting that depth with some power at the same time (saving you some extra weight).
If you want it complete psychedelic sound you'll need old school attitude,
But with modern techniques: http://www.physicalfitnet.com/workouts_video_browse_by/all.aspx :P
Heavy amps, but you will not want to be heavy on psychedelic clothes (well forget the furrs and bring the OTs).
As to say that it is useless in live settings, well a big room is not the same thing a small one, and as outdoor neither (of course). And orientation of the cabs count also... no (?)
And driving two amps into "distortion" with a slight delay helps also in "some" cases, like many have mentioned before. OKAY, you can do that in one amp, but a "slight stereo" might help in my opinion.
Quote from: ashcat_lt on November 12, 2008, 01:19:26 AM
For the reasons mentioned above, I consider stereo in a typical live situation as useless. There aren't but 3 or 4 people in the whole club who are going to hear the proper stereo image, even if you convince the soundman to pan your amps out.
When I was doing it, it was just for my own jollies. I set the amps up around me so I had "stereo monitoring" more or less. I could care less if the stereo image translated out into the house or not. I just wanted it to sound good to me, which inspired me when I was playing- and it did. I mainly used it just to give me some 3-D from the roto-machine and the delay- nothing real fancy.