I am posting this Flanger circuit designed by R.A. Penfold, there has been a few requests here for a circuit that uses the TDA1022 BBD device. I have drawn the schematic in two parts, the first is the signal part and the second is the clock/ modulator part. I built this myself a few years back and it sounded very good. If i was to build it again i might change the clock modulator circuit a bit. It works fine from a 9v battery but maybe would be better from a higher voltage.
The main signal schematic
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k243/lenny1dog/flangermain.jpg)
The clock generator
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k243/lenny1dog/flangerclock.jpg)
Thanks for sharing this. :icon_cool:
Quote from: Ice-9 on March 10, 2009, 02:54:11 PM
I am posting this Flanger circuit designed by R.A. Penfold, there has been a few requests here for a circuit that uses the TDA1022 BBD device.
Thanks a zillion times, Mick!
Could you clear for me few points, please, yet?
- I don't see dry signal going to output, is it stand-alone effect as it is or is it wet path only (maybe module for something bigger?)? This would flange (thanks to non-cancelable feedback) I guess, but it's quite unusual design.
- Should not feedback go to pin 2 of IC1a instead of pin 1?
- Should not pin 6 of IC5b lead somewhere?
Thanks, T.
I'll try and answer those questions
1. This is the complete effect (no need for a mix of dry signal) I always draw my schematics like this (my laziness) to get the effect to switch on/off all you need is to put a bypass switch into the circuit on the input/output for true bypass. If you want i can redraw the schematic to include the switch
2. Yes pin 6 oc IC5b should go to the voltage divider (same point as IC5a pin 3)
3. Also yes the feedback should go to pin 2 (not pin1)
I have checked the rest of the schematic and its all correct apart from points 2 and 3 you mentioned.
Quote from: Ice-9 on March 10, 2009, 05:40:39 PM
I'll try and answer those questions
1. This is the complete effect (no need for a mix of dry signal)
OK, hmmm, it's really first time I see flanger which does not mix dry (real-time) signal with delayed/modulated signal, it must sound bit different, interesting! On the other hand it means you can't get chorus-like sound out of it and even light flanger sound (with very small or none feedback) as well. What I will probably do will be surrounding this circuit by input and output buffer with pre-/de-emphasis and dry/wet signal mixing pot (and full control of feedback amount). It will loose part of it's simplicity (and originality), but will by more classical flanger (it will still allow original setup).
Btw. what exactly sets 47k trimmer on 555? Is it base frequency? Than it should be possible to make MANUAL pot out of it, right?
Quote from: Ice-9 on March 10, 2009, 05:40:39 PM
I always draw my schematics like this (my laziness) to get the effect to switch on/off all you need is to put a bypass switch into the circuit on the input/output for true bypass. If you want i can redraw the schematic to include the switch
No, please, that's really not necessary ;)
Quote from: Ice-9 on March 10, 2009, 05:40:39 PM
2. Yes pin 6 oc IC5b should go to the voltage divider (same point as IC5a pin 3)
3. Also yes the feedback should go to pin 2 (not pin1)
I have checked the rest of the schematic and its all correct apart from points 2 and 3 you mentioned.
Perfectamundo! Thanks again, Mike!
Yes it's a bit unusual to not have the dry signal mixed into the output. You could always add an extra mixer/buffer stage at the end to add in the dry signal. Also put in a spst switch in the feedback path to switch out feedback/regeneration this would switch it between a flanger and a chorus. Also swap the 47k trim that controls the 555 timer for a pot to alter the delay time.
Great!
Maybe one point yet - could you explain your statement "If i was to build it again i might change the clock modulator circuit a bit.", please?
You did not like sweep of the original circuit? It is probably pure triangle (not "hypertriangle" (http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Hyperflange.PDF)), right? Or is there other reason?
The clock / modulator was fine from how i remember the effect, the sweep was ok (triangle) I would just like to build the clock using a diff design as i think having to use the 4011 and 555 timer combination used a lot of pcb space. It would be nice to try a hypertriangle.
Just small note, I have come across another flanger not mixing dry signal into the output: YAMAHA FL-10MII (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/pic/YAMAHA_FL10MII_page1.png)
Quote from: Thomeeque on March 24, 2009, 09:18:32 AM
Just small note, I have come across another flanger not mixing dry signal into the output: YAMAHA FL-10MII (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/pic/YAMAHA_FL10MII_page1.png)
But it must be, otherwise it won't flange.
Quote from: StephenGiles on March 24, 2009, 11:20:48 AM
Quote from: Thomeeque on March 24, 2009, 09:18:32 AM
Just small note, I have come across another flanger not mixing dry signal into the output: YAMAHA FL-10MII (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/pic/YAMAHA_FL10MII_page1.png)
But it must be, otherwise it won't flange.
It will flange thanks to feedback, but it will be definitely different.. btw. you can try it with my digital mistress (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/digital_mistress/) ;)
Edit: Yep, it does: FLANGED_0%_DRY_68%_FB.wav (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/digital_mistress/other/FLANGED_0_DRY_68_FB.wav) ;)
Hi, all!
These days I'm working on TDA1022 based Electric Mistress design - it's basically Tonepad's 9V EM (http://www.tonepad.com/project.asp?id=54) penetrated by the R.A. Penfold's TDA1022 flanger above (from where I have derived "only" circuitry around TDA1022 and the idea to use V
ref as BBD DC BIAS as well).
Actual schemo looks like this:
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/em1022_scheme_diy.gif)
I have already "eagled" PCB as well, I'll build it next week. My believe is, that on principle it should work, even some tweaks will be necessary probably. I see these arguable point now:
- I'm not sure yet if same clock frequency generates same delay time on TDA1022 as on SAD1024 - hopefully C14 capacity doubling/halving will be sufficient to fix this..
- Output loudness will by maybe lower compared to true-bypassed signal - either I will try to play with total gain of the circuit (R1/R2 divider will be place to start) or I will get over true-bypass and use same trick as original 9V EM (which seems to quiet down bypassed signal to match loudness in effect and bypass modes) or I will use some external buffer or whatever, there will be some way for sure.
- Vref used as BBD DC BIAS as well can lead to lost of some headroom if DC BIAS will be too far from 4.5 volts - in this case I will rebuild it to get Vref and BBD DC BIAS independent (as in original 9V EM).
- I have added flasing dual color LED speed indicator, but it should be harmless - I did already sucesfully used it before on my Phase 90, works nice and does not audibly influence sweep.
Comments are welcome! :)
T.
OK, I have made it real..
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/alpha.jpg)
..then I have made some tweaks (e.g. buffer for BBD output)..
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/em1022_scheme_diy2.gif)
..and now I have question, which I will start new thread about :)
T.
Quote from: Thomeeque on April 30, 2009, 11:51:45 AM
..and now I have question, which I will start new thread about :)
BBD (TDA1022) - Tetrode Gate - correct voltage? (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76136.0)
How does it sound?
Nice Build^^... would you mind to share the layout?
Best Regards
Ben
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on April 30, 2009, 06:15:29 PM
How does it sound?
Thanks for your interest! So far I'd say it sounds
promising ;) I'm still in the middle of tweaking (actual biggest problem is relatively big /around 6dB/ attenuation of TDA1022 compared to original SAD1024 or actual RD1506, maybe I'll have to redesign the BBD buffer to make some boost), but I'm already getting very nice flanging with typical EM sweep and similar range of useful sounds, so I'm optimistic.
Quote from: e45tg4t3 on May 01, 2009, 06:07:26 AM
Nice Build^^... would you mind to share the layout?
Best Regards
Ben
Thanks! I'm planning to share the layout, but I'd wait till the tweaking is done (let me know, if you don't agree ;))
Hi!
Here's the latest status:
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/em1022_scheme_diy3.gif)
It's mostly me vs. TDA1022's attenuation fight these days, first I have replaced load resistor by current source, which lowers attenuation approximately from 6 to 2.5dB (~ increases gain from 0.5 to 0.75) and now I'm on hunt for low-noise non-inverting boosting buffer, which will move it to SAD1024's gain level (SAD1024 gain is around 1.1), maybe I'll start another thread again :)
Btw. to by able to nail original EM character, I have created semi-interactive (interactive by altering code ;)) AC transitions emulation (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/emu).
Here's what I've got for 9V EM (it drops signal down by cca 10dB!, buyers must have really loved the effect produced when they accepted this :)):
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/emu/pics/ehx_em9v_tonepad.gif)
And here's for comparison actual Deluxe EM (from factory schematic; buffer trimmer is "set" for maximal signal) (they cared to keep approx. unity gain here :)):
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/emu/pics/ehx_dem_factory.gif)
Feedback represents transition between points 4 and 2 via feedback path..
Unwarranted, it can be all wrong ;)
Hi!
So it's sort-of* finished ;)
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/thumb/DSCN9501R.JPG)
More pics here (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022).
Since buffers were inevitable, I had decided to take advantage of this fact and added few new features to the circuitry (polarity switches, vibrato mode, chorus mode..).
Final circuitry looks like this:
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_A.gif)
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_B.gif)
I would share PCB loyout as well, but unfortunately I have made lot of changes (mainly on main board), so it's obsolete now and needs huge update.
Honestly, I'm not even sure it's so good idea to build this anyway (it's a bit noisy, but maybe it's normal for all BBD based circuits?), maybe wait for some sound samples (which I plan to create) before deciding..
I'm bit short of time now, but if you have questions just ask, I'll answer soon or later.. T.
* I may still try some tuning (when I collect some energy again ;)), e.g. increasing of gain on input buffer to get better SNR and maaaaaybe clock buffering (but original EM does not do that as well, so maybe not)
EDIT: Btw. thanks to markusw for his TZF Electric Mistress (sample and layout) (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=46157.0) thread, I've loaded some inspiration from there ;)
Nice work! Thanks for doing all this and sharing your efforts.
I patiently await the sound samples.
One Q. What are the highest & lowest clock f's this is capable of (measured at the BBD please) when in "filter matrix" mode?
Thanks again ;D,
Dave
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on May 26, 2009, 03:53:24 PM
Nice work! Thanks for doing all this and sharing your efforts.
Thanks! My pleasure :)
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on May 26, 2009, 03:53:24 PM
I patiently await the sound samples.
One Q. What are the highest & lowest clock f's this is capable of (measured at the BBD please) when in "filter matrix" mode?
Thanks again ;D,
Dave
Lowest is adjusted by RT4 to
40kHz (25us) exactly, according to the instructions from Deluxe EM factory scheme (EDIT: this value really seems to set nice sweep range, I has got to cca same position when adjusting RT4 by ear..).
Highest I'll have to measure (I did measure it few times during development, but now I don't remember the value plus it can slightly differ, since I have reconfigured after-LFO part to the Deluxe EM configuration meanwhile /as you can see on the latest schematics/ - it gives bigger range to the matrix mode and remains the same for the flange mode, so it was IMO good & save thing to do). Expect it tommorow evening, today I have to go to the pub :-[, drink beer :-\ and do lot of borring talking ???, you know.. these people are not even in DIY at all, so it will be just wasted time!! :P
;)
Btw. I owe one answer to azrael from Pictures thread yet:
Quote from: azrael on May 25, 2009, 11:56:10 AM
I notice you linked to tonepad...but they only have a schematic up.
Did you design and etch the PCB yourself?
I did design both PCBs, but etched only second one - "main board" was etched by local professional, who has made superb job I haver to say! It was quick, it was cheap, it was drilled and quality of PCB traces is 100% (plus they are silvered). I was experimenting with laser-printer method earlier (e.g. here (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/bonbonek3)), but I won't do that no more probably (it's complicated and results are not the best at all) - either I will do those hand-drawn PCBs (in case of simple ones) or I will ask the pro again (for more complex PCBs).
T.
Btw. I'm planning two mods right now:
1st is just adding pull-down resistor (cca 1M ~ 2.2M) to very input of the circuit for the popless effect/bypass switching :icon_redface:
2nd is bit more complicated and it's a change of the middle MODE SWITCH function ("Deeper Sweep" now) - it will be exact oposite = "Shallower Sweep" :) Thing is, that mainly for the "chorus" mode is even the lowest range still too deep at high rates, so the "chorus" mode adjustability is significantly limited. It should be no loose, since "Deeper Sweep" will be still achievable by extending "Normal Sweep" range (by enlarging RANGE pot value), if I would miss it. It's a bit tricky but I already see bright light at the end of the tunnel ;)
T.
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on May 26, 2009, 03:53:24 PM
Nice work! Thanks for doing all this and sharing your efforts.
I patiently await the sound samples.
One Q. What are the highest & lowest clock f's this is capable of (measured at the BBD please) when in "filter matrix" mode?
Thanks again ;D,
Dave
5mhz perhaps with the 4049 buffer!
An interesting unit would be the option to switch between Standard EM and Deluxe EM circuitry, I did have that on 2 large breadboards a few years back but our dog knocked it on the floor!
http://www.4shared.com/file/108121325/b94b35c0/bounce.html
At last I've located a rough drawing of the bounce circuit I incorporated into a TDA 1022 Standard Electric Mistress that I built. It's based on the Eventide Instant Phaser bounce and does interesting things to the LFO CV.
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 09:10:01 AM
5mhz perhaps with the 4049 buffer!
..with TDA1022? Almost 10 times over declared maximum, that's cool!
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 09:41:16 AM
http://www.4shared.com/file/108121325/b94b35c0/bounce.html
At last I've located a rough drawing of the bounce circuit I incorporated into a TDA 1022 Standard Electric Mistress that I built. It's based on the Eventide Instant Phaser bounce and does interesting things to the LFO CV.
Yep, there are even cool sound samples:
Quote from: StephenGiles on November 02, 2006, 04:43:34 PM
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/bounce3.mp3
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/bounce2.mp3
http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/bounce1.mp3
These are samples from my TDA1022 Standard Electric Mistress with bounce, which give an idea of what it can sound like.
This bounce feature is not my cup-of-tea, but your EM sounds really well!
So, Stephen:
Quote from: StephenGiles on December 22, 2005, 08:12:29 AM
...I have a Standard Electric Mistress with "bounce" using a TDA 1022 which is very noisy but interesting nevertheless - one day I'll draw out the circuit...
When this big day will come? ;D
T.
One of these days ::)
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 10:12:45 AM
One of these days ::)
:)
OK, may I just ask, do you have 4049 buffer there?
Cool, cool. Well, regardless of etched what, both looked very clean and had nice tight layouts. :D
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 11:40:20 AM
Quote from: Thomeeque on May 27, 2009, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 10:12:45 AM
One of these days ::)
No.
:)
OK, may I just ask, do you have 4049 buffer there?
Thanks!
Quote from: azrael on May 27, 2009, 10:54:03 AM
Cool, cool. Well, regardless of etched what, both looked very clean and had nice tight layouts. :D
Thanks! :)
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 09:10:01 AM
5mhz perhaps with the 4049 buffer!
Stephen. Please stop scaring the people.
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Quote from: Thomeeque on May 27, 2009, 09:48:11 AM..with TDA1022? Almost 10 times over declared maximum, that's cool!
Uh, Tomas. Now
you're scaring
me. :icon_eek:
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 27, 2009, 10:12:45 AM
One of these days ::)
Yes. One of these days...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xDCuEyfO2o
Enjoy!
Hi all!
I was looking around for an application to a pair of TDA 1022 that I bought in a local electronic store and I think this proyect fits almost perfectly! Before I build a PCB for the latest schem I've seen in the thread, I wish to ask if the proyect is ready to build or needs some work.
Seems funny to me the fact that TDA1022 is relatively easy to find here in Argentina and you guys in the other side of the world have kind of sortage of it. If someone wants to acquire a pair of it just PM me. The store where I've bought them does make international shippings. Payment is done through Western Union.
This post was a great find form me because I was also thinking to replace the SAD1024 with the TDA1022 in the Electric Mistress circuit. I compared its datasheets and think that TDA is more closer to SAD than other 1024 bbd's such as MN3007. Am I right?. I saw in previous post that Stephen has build a clone of it using this IC substitution. Is this possible or I must stop dreaming?
I heard that Cristina has a stash hidden in her dulce de leche room :icon_biggrin:
Stephen, You like our country a lot, don't you? Dulce de leche rules at all! If I knew that some has a hidden stash of hard to find DIY stuff I will assault that house no matter the consequences! I can build pedals at prison ! ;D
What do you think stephen, is worthwhile to build an Electric Mistress after an TDA1022?
Thanks for the commentary!
Sebastian
PD: That commentary about Cristina does not surprise me at all . Those f*cking peronists are after all things that people loves! They want to take everything from us!
Quote from: juancra on June 07, 2009, 04:49:22 PM
Hi all!
I was looking around for an application to a pair of TDA 1022 that I bought in a local electronic store and I think this proyect fits almost perfectly! Before I build a PCB for the latest schem I've seen in the thread, I wish to ask if the proyect is ready to build or needs some work.
Hi! Welcome aboard ;)
Basically yes, but I have made few minor changes yet, I will update and re-post schematics soon.
Btw. just today I have made first attempt to create some sound samples, but it's not as easy as I have thought originally, it will take few days yet - sorry..
Quote from: juancra on June 07, 2009, 04:49:22 PM
Seems funny to me the fact that TDA1022 is relatively easy to find here in Argentina and you guys in the other side of the world have kind of sortage of it. If someone wants to acquire a pair of it just PM me. The store where I've bought them does make international shippings. Payment is done through Western Union.
Good to know! I should definitely get at least another one as an backup - now I have only one and if it dies, I'm f... ;)
Quote from: juancra on June 07, 2009, 04:49:22 PM
This post was a great find form me because I was also thinking to replace the SAD1024 with the TDA1022 in the Electric Mistress circuit. I compared its datasheets and think that TDA is more closer to SAD than other 1024 bbd's such as MN3007. Am I right?. I saw in previous post that Stephen has build a clone of it using this IC substitution. Is this possible or I must stop dreaming?
I wish I could compare my clone with real SAD1024 EM (does anybody know about good samples?), but in theory SAD version should provide higher fidelity:
- SAD is dual 512-stages BBD and EM uses both of these BBDs in parallel-multiplex mode, which gives doubled sample rate at the same clock compared to single 512-stages BBD line (one could try to configure two TDA1022's to the same configuration)
- TDA attenuates signal (gain is cca 0.75), SAD boosts signal (gain is cca 1.1), so TDA version requires boosting buffer to replace SAD (which adds some noise)
- There is probably more, check e.g. this thread (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=40071)
T.
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on May 26, 2009, 03:53:24 PM
...
One Q. What are the highest & lowest clock f's this is capable of (measured at the BBD please) when in "filter matrix" mode?
...
I have finally measured both ends of the clock range:
If the minimal frequency is adjusted by RT4 to
40kHz (factory setting), maximal frequency is
540kHz (~T
D =
6.4ms to
0.47ms). If switched to "Chorus" mode (C14 = 47+100pF), range drops to 15.1kHz to 204kHz.
If the RT4 is adjusted for maximal possible frequency (to 0 Ohm), range is 80kHz to 888kHz (so RT4 slightly influences max/min ratio as well - 11 here, 13.5 at factory setting).
At higher clock rates, clock signal curve gets already heavily rounded and triangularised, it's almost sinusoidal wave. BBD still works, but attenuates more (gain drops from 0.75 to approx. 0.65). I have tried 4049 buffer, but it did not help very much, clock wave was rounded and triangularised almost same, only amplitude was slightly higher (+7%) - either I have used some lousy 4049 or my cheap PPS10 scope is not capable to measure correctly at these rates. I did not measure BBD attenuation with 4049 buffer, but I did not hear any basic audible difference, so I have just removed buffer and did not waste more time with it.
T.
Thank you Tomas!
:icon_cool:
Dave
What problems did you have when taking sound samples? Have you tried using soft like Audacity?
Quote from: juancra on June 07, 2009, 05:24:27 PM
Stephen, You like our country a lot, don't you? Dulce de leche rules at all! If I knew that some has a hidden stash of hard to find DIY stuff I will assault that house no matter the consequences! I can build pedals at prison ! ;D
What do you think stephen, is worthwhile to build an Electric Mistress after an TDA1022?
Thanks for the commentary!
Sebastian
PD: That commentary about Cristina does not surprise me at all . Those f*cking peronists are after all things that people loves! They want to take everything from us!
Yes I do like your country a lot, but I imagine that living in Argentina is a lot different from just visiting! Next time we visit we want to stay with a friend in San Lorenzo near Salta, and explore that province more. I also hope to visit Península Valdés again - I didn't have a camera when we were there in 2000, the penguins are wonderful!
It is definitely worth building an Electric Mistress with TDA 1022. It may be just a little noisier than the SAD 1024.
Quote from: juancra on June 08, 2009, 08:30:10 PM
What problems did you have when taking sound samples? Have you tried using soft like Audacity?
I've never did this before, so I'm probably facing all possible technical problems one can face plus I have to decide what exactly I want to present and the way I want to present it (the "basic concept", if you will :icon_mrgreen:), there are so many options - I maybe sound crazy, but I've seen/heard lot of presentations which have done more bad than good for the presented subject, I don't want to do this to my baby ;) After all it's musical equipment, so even it's presentation is piece of art as well ;).
Edit: And it's not only presentation of my "baby" but of me as well (damn, I will be playing the guitar there :icon_redface:), that's probably my biggest issue to be absolutely honest :icon_mrgreen:
Coincidentally there are pretty cool presentations of Electric Mistress (e.g. this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qem3P--tU9g) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUart4qkN0g) one), but that's extreme, don't expect nothing like that from me for sure ;)
Quote from: StephenGiles on June 09, 2009, 05:28:49 AM
It is definitely worth building an Electric Mistress with TDA 1022. It may be just a little noisier than the SAD 1024.
Even when there are other BBDs (MN3x07 namely) available? In theory, imo it should be possible to get more fidelity (less noise) using MN3x07. I have used TDA in my clone because I have expected it would be the easiest replacement at the beginning (same clock, no need for 4049 buffer). If I would start today, I would definitely consider MN3x07 as an option
(maybe doubled).
T.
If you would like to show off the flanger, I would suggest tuning a radio in between stations to produce nice white-to-pink noise, and use that as your signal source. Flangers always sound best with a wide-bandwidth signal. And equally important, nobody has to apologise for their playing (even when they play well), or wonder if the amp is playing a big role in how the pedal sounds.
Noise source into flanger into sound-card gets a thumbs up from me.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on June 09, 2009, 03:28:47 PM
If you would like to show off the flanger, I would suggest tuning a radio in between stations to produce nice white-to-pink noise, and use that as your signal source. Flangers always sound best with a wide-bandwidth signal. And equally important, nobody has to apologise for their playing (even when they play well), or wonder if the amp is playing a big role in how the pedal sounds.
Noise source into flanger into sound-card gets a thumbs up from me.
I fully agree. Slowly played chords also provide a good demo for a flanger, flash guitar solos tend to distract from the flanger to my ears.
Quote
Even when there are other BBDs (MN3x07 namely) available? In theory, imo it should be possible to get more fidelity (less noise) using MN3x07. I have used TDA in my clone because I have expected it would be the easiest replacement at the beginning (same clock, no need for 4049 buffer). If I would start today, I would definitely consider MN3x07 as an option (maybe doubled).
T.
I always thought that TDA1022 is a better replacement for the SAD chip because its clock frequency ranges are more closer to the SAD than MN3007 are. Am I right? However, I don't know how much noisier is TDA when compared to MN series...
In other order of things, being not to good playing is not a minor issue when making a sample of a proyect one has built. It happened to me more that one time that I didn't want to publish a work or proyect because I'm not to good in guitar as i'm building pedals :D !
Thanks for encouragement and tips, guys! :) Tommorow I have day-off, so I'll try to create ... well, something ::)
Quote from: juancra on June 09, 2009, 09:30:46 PM
I always thought that TDA1022 is a better replacement for the SAD chip because its clock frequency ranges are more closer to the SAD than MN3007 are. Am I right? However, I don't know how much noisier is TDA when compared to MN series...
Well, for MN3x07 you just need to double clock frequency (and maybe buffer clock signals by 4049 buffer /see my buffer board schemo/) and you are in the same range with benefit of less quantisation noise (theoretically equal to SAD in parallel-multiplex mode). And ADA Flanger clonning guys (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72329.0) proved, that MN3x07's are capable of handling these clock frequencies. SNR is almost same for both (TDA datasheet states 74dB, MN3207 datasheet states 73dB). And TDA requires boosting buffer, MN3x07 (maybe) not..
Damn, now I ask myself, why the hell did I mess with TDA when there is a cheap and available MN3207 (even in my stash)? :icon_mrgreen: But it was just quick "analysis" - there may be some catches as well which I just don't see now (as I didn't when staring this project).
T.
Just have to point out that the real A/DA flanger "cloning guys" are gents that go by the names Lorber, Bergman, Irwin, Giles... (Hope I didn't leave anybody out). The "cloning guys" you refer to owe it all to them. Just carrying on the tradition, so to speak.
Dave
Hey Tom?
What happened after all with your efforts in this schem? Could you record samples after all?
Hi juancra & all!
Here it is, finally :icon_redface:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXxmixk46Xo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXxmixk46Xo)*
Sorry that it took so long, I'm notorious underestimater plus I was bit busy with other stuff last week..
Note: I still have to update those schematics, but most of the latest changes are not interesting soundwise - there is only one, which definitely influenced sound: I have increased feedback capacitor (C4 on main board) from 2n2 to 17.2nF (2.2+15) to make feedback sound fatter - it's a step from original EM character (maybe closer to "standard" flangers), but I like it more this way.
Enjoy! :)
T.
*Recording chain: American Vintage 57 Strat => (BSIAB2) => EM1022 => BOSS JamStation JS-5 (as speaker simulator only) => PC
Sound really good.
I like what you did with showing the settings in the clip!
Cool stuff!
Nice! ;D
Thanks guys, I'm glad you like it :) T.
Any chance of a layout sometime in the future?
I have a handful of TDA1022's that are just saying, "Build something with me!"
(Yes, BBD's speak to me :o. And yes, I answer them :icon_twisted:.)
Thanks again Tomas.
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 19, 2009, 07:07:40 PM
(Yes, BBD's speak to me :o. And yes, I answer them :icon_twisted:.)
Thank God... I thought that I was the only one!!
I regularly google argentinan sites for the word "mn3005" to see if something new appears on the horizon!
+1 for a layout!
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 19, 2009, 07:07:40 PM
Any chance of a layout sometime in the future?
I have a handful of TDA1022's that are just saying, "Build something with me!"
(Yes, BBD's speak to me :o. And yes, I answer them :icon_twisted:.)
Thanks again Tomas.
Hi!
As I have stated earlier, PCB layout I have used (and the only one existing at the time) is obsolete due to lot of modifications I've made lately. I have already promised to help juancra with his build (not half disinterestedly ;)), so I will update the layout, but it will take some time - some other duties had piled-up meanwhile :(. So two scenarios are possible: either I can provide the obsolete layout (Eagle project) with updated schematics right now, so you can update it yourself, or you can wait for my update. So, how strong is that TDA's "obtrusion"? ;)
T.
Is the schematic (This thread; page 1; reply 18) the up to date one?
Just want to know in case the urge to perf gets a hold of me. If the perf bug doesn't bite, then I'll wait patiently. And... I'll hire someone to fabricate a PCB for me ;D.
Either way, Thanks alot!
Dave
Hi Thomeeque, I've just seen the youtube clip and it sounds fantastic. I've read this thread from the beggining and i congratulate you on what you have done with the TDA1022, i just now wish i had a couple of them.
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 21, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
Is the schematic (This thread; page 1; reply 18) the up to date one?
Nope, these are:
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_MB.gif)
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_BB.gif)
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on June 21, 2009, 03:17:40 PM
Just want to know in case the urge to perf gets a hold of me. If the perf bug doesn't bite, then I'll wait patiently. And... I'll hire someone to fabricate a PCB for me ;D.
Either way, Thanks alot!
Dave
My pleasure :)
Quote from: Ice-9 on June 21, 2009, 05:22:45 PM
Hi Thomeeque, I've just seen the youtube clip and it sounds fantastic. I've read this thread from the beggining and i congratulate you on what you have done with the TDA1022, i just now wish i had a couple of them.
Thanks, Mick, your initial input helped a lot! :icon_exclaim:
T.
really impressive! good work!
Hi!
So here it is:
EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf)
It took ages, I know and I'm sorry for that, but there was still something else to do - hopefully there is still somebody interested :)
T.
PS: As in case of the demo I did something like this for the first time and it's draft, so if you see something stupid or missing there, please don't hasitate to let me know (btw. I have to finish "Setup Hints" chapter yet..).
This is a tremendous piece of work, many thanks. We fly to Austria on Friday so I'll print a copy for in flight reading!
Quote from: StephenGiles on July 05, 2009, 04:51:47 PM
This is a tremendous piece of work, many thanks. We fly to Austria on Friday so I'll print a copy for in flight reading!
I'm honored! Enjoy your flight! :) T.
Wow and Thanks! Way above & beyond the call of duty ;D.
Now to get somebody to etch a couple of boards for me. Hmmm...
Thanks again and all the Best,
Dave
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on July 05, 2009, 06:32:43 PM
Wow and Thanks! Way above & beyond the call of duty ;D.
Now to get somebody to etch a couple of boards for me. Hmmm...
Thanks again and all the Best,
Dave
Thanks Dave & good luck with the build (I hope you won't curse on me too much :icon_mrgreen:)! T.
Quote from: Thomeeque on July 05, 2009, 03:41:54 PM
Hi!
So here it is:
EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf (http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf)
Hi!
I have found alternative for used DP3T slide switches (which seems to be bit problematic to get):
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=450-1576-ND (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=450-1576-ND)
By quick overview of it's datasheet I'd say, that it should be 100% twin of type I have used (so it should perfectly fit into PCBs from the guide), but double-check it yet, please, I may be wrong.
Edit: Sorry, I was wrong, now I see that pin distances are different :( I'll keep searching.. Good luck, T.
Btw. if somebody knows about other alternatives, please, let us know.
OK, so far I was able to dig out the manufacturer of the switch I'm using (MS-034), it's:
Marushin Electric Mfg Co Ltd (http://www1.neweb.ne.jp/wb/est/) (EST?) (all their slide switches catalogue (http://www1.neweb.ne.jp/wb/est/pdf/s-sw.pdf))
Maybe it will be useful somehow (even the look of the page and the weird URL does not make very optimistic impression - it's like trip 10 years back or something :P)
T.
For those confused by MS-034 slide switch function and pinout:
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/MS-034_DP3T_Slide_Switch_principle_640.gif)
Orange box represents slider in one of it's three positions, gray A0/B0 pins are internal only.
(I'll put it into PDF eventually as well)
T.
hello,
is this layout good to go without any issues?
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf
thanks for that work and build notes. very impressive.
Quote from: newperson on August 18, 2009, 08:21:47 PM
...is this layout good to go without any issues?
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf
I have completed the main board and it works perfectly.
I'm in the process of populating the buffer board (and finishing the project).
So far, so good 8). One note. If you are unable to locate a source for the 4 switches, Small Bear has a
workable substitute:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=495
Not an exact fit , but if you change the artwork for the buffer board a bit it will fit/work.
I'll post a build report upon completion of the project.
Dave
glad to hear. do you think that you will be finished by the weekend? maybe i will just wait for your build report. would rotary switches work okay?
Quote from: newperson on August 18, 2009, 08:21:47 PM
hello,
is this layout good to go without any issues?
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf
thanks for that work and build notes. very impressive.
Thank you! Besides this slide-switch issue mentioned by Dave already, there may be problem with D2 - even the Tonepad's schematic calls for 1N4001, it did not work for David (no clock). I have tried 1N4007 at the beginning (as I mention in the guide, I did not get any 1N4001 here in Prague - all shops here sell only the 1N4007 from whole 1N400x line), and it did not work well either (my clock was ticking, but at lower frequency then required). I have 1N4148 there instead now, Dave 1N914, both seem to work well.
Quote from: newperson on August 19, 2009, 03:33:38 PM
would rotary switches work okay?
Basically any dual (single for FEEDBACK) 3T switch will work, but the wiring may give you headache (that was maybe main reason, why I have picked directly PCB soldered switches). I'd advice you to check your possibilities to get proper switches first. Plus it should not be big deal to adopt PCB layout for similar kind of switches (like those linked by Dave).
T.
Very impressive work, documentation and very good youtube demo.
This is very well done.
Bravo !
H.F.
Quote from: frank_p on August 19, 2009, 06:13:21 PM
Very impressive work, documentation and very good youtube demo.
This is very well done.
Bravo !
H.F.
Thanks, frank, I'm delighted! :)
T.
Finally finished this. Alot of time was spent testing & deciding what features would suit me best. F'back & Mix gave the most versatility for my style. Sounds beautiful (I can get that "Walking on the Moon" sound. This makes me a happy camper!). Takes up a minimum of pedalboard space. Thomas' design lends itself to a wide variety of possibilities. You can use all the features he has put into this, or pick the ones you want. A TZF option could be easily added. See that empty space for the 4049? With a bit of thought & modification a nice distortion circuit could be put there. Jet Flange anybody? The amount of things that can be done are only limited by ones imagination & willingness to do them. I opted to install a 9V regulator circuit on the buffer board (required drilling a few holes). So, what are you waiting for? Go build one!
Questions?
Guts:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01218.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01219.jpg
All boxed up:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01225.jpg
All the Best!
Dave
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on September 03, 2009, 11:19:06 AM
Finally finished this. Alot of time was spent testing & deciding what features would suit me best. F'back & Mix gave the most versatility for my style. Sounds beautiful (I can get that "Walking on the Moon" sound. This makes me a happy camper!).
Oh, that's great! Congratulations! :)
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on September 03, 2009, 11:19:06 AM
Takes up a minimum of pedalboard space. Thomas' design lends itself to a wide variety of possibilities. You can use all the features he has put into this, or pick the ones you want. A TZF option could be easily added. See that empty space for the 4049? With a bit of thought & modification a nice distortion circuit could be put there. Jet Flange anybody? The amount of things that can be done are only limited by ones imagination & willingness to do them.
Exactly, you could modify and/or adjust EM circuit probably forever: some other, very simple mods (allowing you to get your own sound out of it) could be feedback capacitor (C4) switch, dry/wet ratio pot, replacing RT4 by pot (moves sweep range), bigger POT3_RANGE value (220k?) to get deeper sweep etc. (all part names as found in pdf)
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on September 03, 2009, 11:19:06 AM
I opted to install a 9V regulator circuit on the buffer board (required drilling a few holes). So, what are you waiting for? Go build one!
Questions?
Guts:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01218.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01219.jpg
All boxed up:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w121/oldschoolanalog/DSC01225.jpg
All the Best!
Dave
Nice one! :)
Thanks for this report, Dave! Cheers, T.
Thank
you for all the work you put into this Tomas!
To answer the Q:
Quote from: newperson on August 18, 2009, 08:21:47 PM
...is this layout good to go without any issues?
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf
Yes, it's good to go 8).
And, additional thanks to bluesdevil for the nice PCBs he fabricated for me. They made life alot easier!
Dave
I finally finished (well sort of, don't have it boxed yet) my build too!
Thank you Thomeeque! for your help and troubleshooting mails! :D
I think according to Thomeeque, this is the 3rd build of his project :icon_twisted:
In order to get things straight, I'll first post some pics and maybe a short sample, and then I'll explain what further modifications are a must to this project(in my opinion anyway). Thomeeque helped me a lot in solving some noise AM radio like interference issues, and other crucial stuff.
Photos:
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89270 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89270)
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89271 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89271)
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89272 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89272)
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89910 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89910)
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89908 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=89908)
Short sample:
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=90225 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=90225)
Initial! Noise sample without 4049 Clock Buffer in my build:
http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=90226 (http://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=90226)
Some modifications are: Diode D2 has to be changed to 1N4148 from 1N4001, or else the flanger will not sweep.
R1 changed to 100K from 10 K and also a 150-300 pf cap put in between pin 3 of the 4558 and ground.
I got rid of the unwanted noise by using the 4049 clock buffer. :icon_mrgreen:
Hello Razvan,
Welcome at this forum :)
Thank you very much for your report and congrats to The World's 3rd EM1022 (AFAIK) again! :)
For others:
1N400x as D2 never worked well for me either, if you would build it, start with 1N4148 there.
Changing R1 to 100k and adding filtering cap 150p was my idea (stolen from modern DEM) how to try to fight with (most probably) AM radio interferences (leading to "UFO" sounds caused by heterodining with clock frequency):
(http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_radio_filter.gif)
But Razvan has got rid of those interferences already by using optional clock buffer (which honestly does not make much sence to me, but maybe it was just eliminated thanks to changed wiring or something), which he has wired before R1/Cf mod, so we don't know how useful R1/Cf mod is..
T.
Yes, the interference was gone with the help of the optional clock buffer, but R1/Cf mod helped too. It tamed it down even more.
You could recommend this as an optional heh 8) but it doesn't hurt ! Thanks again :icon_lol:
I have some TDA1022!
;)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/221042006077?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Quote from: vasjum on June 05, 2012, 11:02:09 AM
I have some TDA1022!
;)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/221042006077?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Cool first post!
Might be better off moving this to the "for sale" section....
Hi everybody!
I'm a starting to build the cool EM1022.
This is the first photos!
http://www.4shared.com/photo/w7nGwdVF/Photo1674a.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/nH4UHTsc/Photo1675a.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/H6ozRm90/Photo1697a.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/GDxwRI8u/Photo1698a.html
http://www.4shared.com/photo/rxfHho_l/Photo1700a.html
Quote from: vasjum on June 05, 2012, 11:02:09 AM
I have some TDA1022!
;)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/221042006077?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
A bit PRICEY don't you think? :o
Good Luck with that! ::)
I give a lowest price!Can you find a cheaper TDAs in Germany? ;)
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1&_nkw=tda%201022&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283
Quote from: vasjum on June 05, 2012, 11:02:09 AM
I have some TDA1022!
;)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/221042006077?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Why does your eBay ad list them for 80 but, your ad in the For Sale section lists them for 15 ???
BTW.... links to eBay items in the For Sale section MUST BE fixed price only. It appears that your link is an auction.
Price is different!1 piece is expensive now - see FARNEL.com is the same... or can you buy from China ;D or Hong Kong!!!-best quality!!!
Or can you wait 2 more days and buy my 8 pcs. for 80€! :icon_wink:
Ahhhhh....
So, all 8 for 80! I got it now ;)
Sorry.... language barrier.
@vasjum: nice perf work! 8)
Thanks oldschoolanalog! :)
Hope its ok to open this thread if not... my apologies.
I have been doing this project on and off for the last two months. I finally have got to the stage of testing it, It does actually work which really surprised me...but I still need to get it set up properly and then box it. Here are some pics of it. I did make a slight alteration... the individual boards can be seperated by the plug I made. It was a great achievment by Tomas and I am grateful to him for doing great work on this and the EM3007 , EM3201 etc.
It has taught me a lot about Flangers, I have also built the Lovetone doppel ganger by Lacesensor, that was another great build. I just love the challenge of these great 60's pedals.
I will be doing the EM3007 as I have a few Mn3007 chips
Thanks
Mike
http://postimg.org/image/im2g5ryfr/
http://postimg.org/image/qasuy3t65/
http://postimg.org/image/hhufucx07/
http://postimg.org/image/izz6xka9p/
Congratulations, Mike, and thanks for the pics! I'm glad it is still possible to get TDA1022 chip and matching slide-switches somewhere :) Good luck with the final adjustments and boxing, do not hasite to post final state then and some soundclip too ;) T.
Nice work Mike! Glad to see another build of this versatile flanger. This unit has been on my pedalboard since its completion in '09. it is very easy to dial in on the fly and covers many flange/chorus/vibrato sounds quite nicely.
Nice to see you Tomas! :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: Thomeeque on November 14, 2013, 05:51:31 PM
Congratulations, Mike, and thanks for the pics! I'm glad it is still possible to get TDA1022 chip and matching slide-switches somewhere :) Good luck with the final adjustments and boxing, do not hasite to post final state then and some soundclip too ;) T.
Hi Tomas, thanks for your encouragement, I still have measurements to do on the build.. and the enclosure. I want to make sure it all works . I found this company on the web which has the switches, so for anyone who has been put off building this pedal in the past the address is here...they are a good price as well :)
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/709888/MS-034-Slide-Switch-MS-03430-Vdc-03-A?queryFromSuggest=true.
Thanks
Mike
Quote from: Dave W on November 14, 2013, 06:27:51 PM
Nice work Mike! Glad to see another build of this versatile flanger. This unit has been on my pedalboard since its completion in '09. it is very easy to dial in on the fly and covers many flange/chorus/vibrato sounds quite nicely.
Nice to see you Tomas! :icon_biggrin:
Thanks Dave, yes I was enjoying some of its sounds this morning, It is similar to Tomas demo at the begining but as the demo moves on and the flange becomes more lush...I haven't got that same sort of swell. Anyway I will take all volts readings of IC's and get it sorted :)
Mike
UPDATE
I spent most of today doing checks on this build as I new it wasn't right....I was relieved to find the problem, and felt a bit annoyed with myself...as I am an oldie I can blame my ailing eyesight, I had a TL074 in the socket instead of a LM324N. Yes they are both pin compatible and actually work but they have a lower vol output and they don't have that lush flange I was telling Dave (biggrin) about. If you have built this please try it you will see what I mean.
Anyway..it now sounds like it should. LUSH!!!
Mike
I have a pair of those TDA's that I scavenged from an old bass head that a friend gave me. I'm thinking this may be the project!
Would these switches be ok?
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/electromechanical/switches-key-pad/slide-switch/slide-switch-2p3t-through-hole-0-3a-50vdc-1840.html (http://www.taydaelectronics.com/electromechanical/switches-key-pad/slide-switch/slide-switch-2p3t-through-hole-0-3a-50vdc-1840.html)
Hello all,
I plan on building this effect, and I've been studying the layout and schematics very hard for the last 3 days. But I need some help. I want to utilize the clock buffer (IC2), but cannot figure out where to wire the pads to. I'm assuming that instead of using the buffer jumper wires, as defined in Tomas' layout in the PDF, I need to connect those jumpers from IC1 & IC5 to Q+in, Q-in, Q+out, & Q-out. But what goes where? I noticed Rasvan used the 4049 buffer, but I don't see it wired in his pics.
Thanks, Jeff
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 20, 2014, 12:39:30 AMI'm assuming that instead of using the buffer jumper wires, as defined in Tomas' layout in the PDF, I need to connect those jumpers from IC1 & IC5 to Q+in, Q-in, Q+out, & Q-out.
Hi, correctamundo - buffer inputs (Q+in, Q-in) go to clock generator output (IC5, pins 1 and 2), buffer outputs (Q+out, & Q-out) go to BBD clock signal inputs (IC1 pins 1 and 4).
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 20, 2014, 12:39:30 AMThanks, Jeff
My pleasure, good luck with the build, keep us posted! :) T.
Thanks Tomas!!
One other question I had. For the TDA1022, filter cap, that goes on pins 5 & 9, right?
This is going to be an exciting build. I really appreciate all the info that you have given on this. Will I be build # 4? :icon_rolleyes: I can't find the slide switches here in the US, but, I can use other, and use jumper wires like Ransvan did..
Thanks again for your help, Tomas!
from this thread. page 4/reply 68:
QuoteIf you are unable to locate a source for the 4 switches, Small Bear has a workable substitute:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=495
Not an exact fit , but if you change the artwork for the buffer board a bit it will fit/work.
get the switches then adjust your pcb artwork.
filter cap for the ps bypass on the tda goes to pins 9 and 16
Thanks for the pin info Dave. As for the link with the sub switch info, I looked there already, but that thread is broken. I found some others though.
Hi again, Small Bear still has it, only the link has changed: http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=495
Unfortunately it seems little costly (it is not slide but toggle, right, so maybe that's why), type I have used sells Conrad for something like one dollar (see Mike's link few posts above). But it seems this type is sold only in Europe for some reason.
If you would find some US common DP3T slide switch and provide dimensions, I would not mind to create alternative PCB version for it.
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 20, 2014, 09:19:32 AMWill I be build # 4? :icon_rolleyes:
Hmm, maybe there's more, who knows :) I have missed Pojo's question, maybe he has made some progress..?
And congratulations to Mike to his final problem resolved (better late, than never :icon_redface:)!
Cheers, T.
QuoteHmm, maybe there's more, who knows Smiley I have missed Pojo's question, maybe he has made some progress..?
Nah, I haven't even begun other then glancing at the schematics and your build reports. I really really want to though! Possibly after this amp project.
Without reading the through the entire thread to find out what the slide switch requirement is.....I have a feeling it requires a certain footprint and height because it's board mounted.
With that being said.....I've made "daughter" boards for slide switches comprised of a switch and long header pins which worked out fabulously!
Larry I posted the switch and where you can obtain it in Europe...all the info is on it..its page 5 about half way down on this thread:)
Mike
Quote from: fendman on February 21, 2014, 11:18:03 AM
Larry I posted the switch and where you can obtain it in Europe...all the info is on it..its page 5 about half way down on this thread:)
Mike
I just posted this side note as another option for the individuals that don't want to pay shipping on another order.
It seems as if no supplier has everything.....and the shipping charges add up quickly when placing multiple orders.
Think about how many components you could purchase with $6.00. (3.61 BPS) :icon_wink:
[/quote]
I just posted this side note as another option for the individuals that don't want to pay shipping on another order.
It seems as if no supplier has everything.....and the shipping charges add up quickly when placing multiple orders.
Think about how many components you could purchase with $6.00. (3.61 BPS) :icon_wink:
[/quote]
Gotcha!!! Like me making onboard pots by extending the legs, cos we can't get them in the UK and to get them it costs:icon_smile:
Exactly! :icon_wink:
Quote from: armdnrdy on February 21, 2014, 11:13:48 AM
With that being said.....I've made "daughter" boards for slide switches comprised of a switch and long header pins which worked out fabulously!
Ya know what? That's a great idea. Didn't even think of that. What I'd really like to do is just have (4) 3-way toggle switches, but the pin config on those Euro-switches would be tricky to cross over. I have found switches that are functionally the same here in the US, but the pin spacing just doesn't.
SHAME ON YOU TOMAS, for giving us one of the best write-ups on a build that I've ever seen, and YOU putting those lousy switches in the layout! :icon_eek:
I am kidding of course. And LARRY, the daughter board suggestion is a fantastic idea. Do have some pics you can share?
I don't have any batteries for my camera but this image should suffice.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/2T3P%20slide%20switch.jpg)
This is the top view.
I used long header pins and slid the plastic "stop" where I needed it for the correct height.
Perfect. I can draw something up in Eagle like this to fit my switch. I'm etching the main and buffer boards anyway. Might as well throw these in.
Thanks for the info!
I designed a capacitor selector box with three board mounted 12 position rotary switches to choose between 36 values of capacitance. (for testing/breadboarding purposes)
I needed a slide switch to choose between the rotary switch outputs.
I could not find a slide switch with the proper length that would mount on the board the same length as the rotary switches so....
I had to improvise.
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 22, 2014, 03:06:24 AM
SHAME ON YOU TOMAS, for giving us one of the best write-ups on a build that I've ever seen, and YOU putting those lousy switches in the layout! :icon_eek:
I agree, that's why I am willing to create new buffer PCB variant for some common US type ;) But you must find that switch and provide dimensions.
Quote from: Thomeeque on February 21, 2014, 04:47:04 AM
If you would find some US common DP3T slide switch and provide dimensions, I would not mind to create alternative PCB version for it.
Only dimensions may differ, pinout should remain the same (it should not be problem, this is common principle used for 3T slide switches). And maybe try to find type with threaded mounting holes, so these can be used for mounting PCB to panel.
T.
Quote from: Thomeeque on February 22, 2014, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 22, 2014, 03:06:24 AM
I agree, that's why I am willing to create new buffer PCB variant for some common US type ;) But you must find that switch and provide dimensions.
That would be awesome, bc I'm not going to be able to start building til a month from now anyway. I'll start looking again. I found quite a few switches that would work, but didn't bookmark the pages. I'll find one that at least 3 places stock in the US, & that are reasonably priced and post back.
Tomas & Larry :icon_biggrin:thank you very much.
Okay Tomas,
Well the part of choice in the US, is (drumroll) ...... The same part you referenced from Small Bear. Although it is indeed pricey, it is the ONLY switch available that has threads so that you can mount the switches to the enclosure. There were many that had mounting ears and holes. But you would need a nut on the other side between the PCB & the enclosure, and that would be physically impossible.
I checked the following MFG's: C&K Components, CW Industries, Alps, Apem, E-Switch, Switchcraft, TE/Alcoswitch.
It just so happens that the last one I checked (TE/Alcoswitch) is the only one with threaded mounting holes. I noticed that Small bear references their's as "the work-alike" of old Alsowitch part# CST023NK, which is new TE PN# 1437576-4. I also emailed Small Bear to verify that the specs are identical, and they say yes.
Here are the specs: http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1437576-4&DocType=Customer+Drawing&DocLang=English
Tomas, if you feel like you have the time to change the layout for us here in the US, and it won't take too much out of you, I would be very grateful. I'm in no hurry. Just got my TDA1022 chip in today (not a knock-off) but I am still mauling through the parts list trying to source the rest of the parts.
Even though these switches are expensive, I like the "Atari Style" toggles. Maybe I'll design the pedal to look like a 2600!
Is the schematic of this beast here? Maybe I've missed it!
Hey Stephen.
It was on page 3..... the last post.
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf
Quote from: armdnrdy on February 25, 2014, 03:52:40 AM
Hey Stephen.
It was on page 3..... the last post.
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em1022/EM1022_Build_Instructions.pdf
Thanks Larry, I must have skipped that page!
Question about the Cermet trim resistors:
Says to pay attention to the values in the schematic, which are as follows:
RT1 1k CCA 50%
RT2 10k CCA 5.5K
RT3 100k CCA 7.0V
RT4 10k CCA 4.7K
When selecting the appropriate trimmers, how many turns should I use? Why are the units so different (50%, 5.5K, 7.0V, 4.7K). I can KIND of understand these:
On RT1: 50% of the 1K trimmer would = 500R ?
On RT2: set the dial to 5.5K ?
On Rt4: set the dial to 4.7K ?
But on RT3, what the heck is 7.0V ? I noticed it says that one is a "Precise trimmer"
Do I need to measure the specified values with my DMM, before installing?
Not quite understanding this part of the schematic.
Hoffy84,
Where are you reading this? Which page of the build doc.
Says to pay attention to the values in the schematic, which are as follows:
RT1 1k CCA 50%
RT2 10k CCA 5.5K
RT3 100k CCA 7.0V
RT4 10k CCA 4.7K
Quote from: armdnrdy on February 27, 2014, 11:42:20 PM
Hoffy84,
Where are you reading this? Which page of the build doc.
Says to pay attention to the values in the schematic, which are as follows:
RT1 1k CCA 50%
RT2 10k CCA 5.5K
RT3 100k CCA 7.0V
RT4 10k CCA 4.7K
Hi Larry,
On page 3 towards the bottom, section 4. Setup Hints - Set all trimmers as indicated on Picture 1: Main Board Schematic
Then if you look at the Main Board Schematic on page 8, look for the RT()s. (You may go blind trying to find them, but each one reads CCA (and then the range).
Thanks! Jeff
Found em.
Not much of an alignment guide!
This might help.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/DEM%20reissue%20alignment.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/DEM%20reissue%20alignment.pdf)
Also, check out the Deluxe Electric Mistress build "The Gilmour".
You'll find a set up guide in that as well.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=49105
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 28, 2014, 12:41:07 AM
On page 3 towards the bottom, section 4. Setup Hints - Set all trimmers as indicated on Picture 1: Main Board Schematic
Quote from: armdnrdy on February 28, 2014, 01:33:05 AM
Not much of an alignment guide!
Sorry, "Setup hints" chapter remained unfinished (hence the
TODO), fine alignment steps are completely missing - it is not simple to formulate them properly and there are already copies of original EM alignment procedures available online, which can be used by experienced builder, so I did skip it for the first draft..
First bullet is there just to quickly move you into the working area, where you should already get some flanging, but fine adjustments should be done yet. This can be especially useful when you are not equiped with proper tools like signal generator and oscilloscope and your only tools are DMM and your ears :)
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 27, 2014, 11:29:36 PM
RT1 1k CCA 50%
RT2 10k CCA 5.5K
RT3 100k CCA 7.0V
RT4 10k CCA 4.7K
First, you probably know but just to be absolutely clear, CCA = circa =
approximately (I am not sure how common is this acronym around the world actually).
Now,
RT1 (clock noise cancel trimmer) mixes two signals so I say here adjust it to approximately 50% (half of the trim range) so the mix ratio is 1:1.
RT2 (feedback trimmer) and
RT4 (clock trimmer) are configured as variable resistors, so I just say adjust them to given values (measured by DMM on fully populated board, that is how I have measured them - this is not precise method, but good enough for
approximate)
RT3 (BBD bias voltage trimmer) is configured as a voltage divider for the bias voltage on BBD (TDA1022) input - so I say here what voltage should be at it's output (measured against the GND) - but actually, 7.0V is value for 10V supply which I have used, so adjust it to 70% of your supply voltage (e.g. 6.3V for 9V supply). This trimmer should be precise and multi-turn type, because for the fine adjustment the sweet spot range is very narrow.
T.
Quote from: hoffy84 on February 24, 2014, 09:57:52 PM
Okay Tomas,
Well the part of choice in the US, is (drumroll) ...... The same part you referenced from Small Bear. Although it is indeed pricey, it is the ONLY switch available that has threads so that you can mount the switches to the enclosure. There were many that had mounting ears and holes. But you would need a nut on the other side between the PCB & the enclosure, and that would be physically impossible.
I checked the following MFG's: C&K Components, CW Industries, Alps, Apem, E-Switch, Switchcraft, TE/Alcoswitch.
It just so happens that the last one I checked (TE/Alcoswitch) is the only one with threaded mounting holes. I noticed that Small bear references their's as "the work-alike" of old Alsowitch part# CST023NK, which is new TE PN# 1437576-4. I also emailed Small Bear to verify that the specs are identical, and they say yes.
Here are the specs: http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1437576-4&DocType=Customer+Drawing&DocLang=English
Tomas, if you feel like you have the time to change the layout for us here in the US, and it won't take too much out of you, I would be very grateful. I'm in no hurry. Just got my TDA1022 chip in today (not a knock-off) but I am still mauling through the parts list trying to source the rest of the parts.
Even though these switches are expensive, I like the "Atari Style" toggles. Maybe I'll design the pedal to look like a 2600!
Good work, Jeff! You could yet try to ask Small Bear if he'd be willing to stock our European MS-034 (http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/709888/MS-034-Slide-Switch-MS-034-30-Vdc-03-A)/GS373 (http://www.soselectronic.com/?str=371&artnum=16257&name=gs373) weirdo (as it's cheap and has threaded mounting holes and I would not have to modify the BB layout :D), but I have no idea what are the odds for that to happen.
Btw. as the toggle on Small Bear's type IMO slides the slide internally, action will be reversed - but that's more just a note then complain (you'll just have to reverse labels :)).
T.
I'm not sure why threaded mounting holes are not popular here in the US. Maybe if more folks were taking on a complex build like this, Small Bear or other suppliers would consider stocking the original slider? If you think about it, maybe the MS-034 switch is not such a strange selection after all, bc it seems to be the only with mounting threads?
I believe you're right about the lever function on the US switches. I did think about that early on, when I saw the pictures of it.
Tomas, I'd like to try Larry's idea of the daughter-boards just for good practice. And then that can be the test to see how it functions, and THEN, we can see if it's worth editing your layout. Your thoughts?
Larry & Tomas: thank you guys for taking some time to help me. Really appreciate your feedback. I already went to local surplus store today and found all IC's except the LM324N. Guess I'll get that online with the other parts. Can't wait to build this, as it will be my first pedal!
I found a discarded circuit board (I think it's part of a pretty old TV set) and one of the components is a TDA1022 (I'm Argentinian too, maybe these used to be popular TVs so that's why this IC is common here), googling it led me here so now I'm building this flanger.
Anyways, I only wanted to ask, is it of any importance at all that I use metal film (I guess that's what the pdf means by 'metallic'?) resistors rather than carbon film?
I guess the capacitor type shouldn't matter much either as long as I use polarized ones where it's indicated?
Aunque las resistencias son de película metálica , el flanger funciona. :icon_biggrin:
miique: copate y decime que tele buscar tirada en una vereda!
(asking politely what TV model he`s talking about, in spanish)
Mr Thomeeque; would you please make this excelent pedal made using other IC like the MN3007 ??; I have a HUNDREDs of this ICs !! the TDA1022 are rare in PERÚ!! THANKS to post your excelents pedals!!
godsavemetal,
the EM3007 is this project
here is how to convert a sad1024 electric mistress to a EM3007, using the mn3007.
http://thmq.mysteria.cz/em3007/em9v_sad_repl_v0_1.gif
^^
sadly Roberto Barrios aka GodSaveMetal, left us on november 21 2016
R.I.P.
:icon_redface:
i'm sorry to hear this. :icon_sad:
on a lighter note, i ordered a tda 1022 and this thread will be a great asset.