I mentioned a while about doing a tremolo using a 5672. danielzink promptly bought some 5672's. Ever since, Dan has been politely asking about it in various threads - I feel guilty every time he mentions it. I made a few attempts, but what foxed me was getting the depth control right. I had another stab at it today and finally got it right. So here's "Delirium" - the danielzink memorial tube tremolo, which I now expect him to build in a 1590A.
The tremolo speed goes from 'machine gun fast' to 'is it still on?' slow. Even slower speeds can be obtained by changing the speed pot for 47K or 100k, but for a useable range 22K or 27K is just fine. I power all my effects off a 12 volt supply, which with this effect means a decent amount of clean boost is available in addition to the tremolo. Powering it off 9 volts will give less boost.
I've included a few options for powering the 5672's heater in the schematic.
If you want to add a rate LED, just hang it off the output of the second opamp (before the depth control) which a suitable resistor ( I used 1K on the breadboard).
5672's can be a little microphonic, so it's worth using some foam around the tube to pad them. Don't expect them to glow - they don't! They don't heat up either.
That's it! have fun Dan!
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/DeliriumTremolo.jpg)
Looks cool! I might give it a go as well. How pricy are those tubes?
They're pretty cheap - have a look on Ebay. I've done a few other designs using them if you buy a few. Have a look in 'Schematics' in my signature.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb292/frequencycentral/closeup-6088a.jpg)
So I guess all those pointy black things got to the plus 12volts right?
There isn't a need for Vref voltage for the Opamp correct?
OK for the million dollar question Can I use it on a ValveCaster?
Glen
Hi Glen, yeah the pointy black things go to +ve, 9 volts or 12 volts. Most people use 9v, I use 12 due to the convenience of powering my huge array of tube pedals! that's why I gave the different heater power options.
The two 220K resistors form a voltage divider which is the vref for the opamp. The LFO is not my design, it appears in a few different designs, I have no idea who originated it. I just tweaked the values to suit the circuit.
Quote from: biggy boy on May 03, 2009, 05:19:26 PM
OK for the million dollar question Can I use it on a ValveCaster?
Do you mean the LFO? I'll check that on the breadboard and report back.
[/quote]
Do you mean the LFO? I'll check that on the breadboard and report back.
[/quote]
Yup :icon_smile:
Wow ! Rick i didn't realize those valves were so small, i might see if i can get me some of those.
Still got 4 submini 5678 - I used one in Rick's Pentaboost, so I checked you can swap the two. I am gonna try this one with the submini I got, then. As for the opamp, will a TL072 work?! I think it should be fine...
it brings a tear to this eye...........
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
a 1590 based tube project ? ! ? ! ? !
I'M ON IT !!!
Thanks RIck - I'll be hacking away on it soon !
Just gotta get a PCB formulated...........
Dan
Can anyone understand French here? I'd like this datasheet translated to check suitability for such a tube project ---> http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf (http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf). I can only find it in French and wouldn't have a clue how to decipher it. I happen to have one of these tubes lying around and want to put it to use
I'm going to push my luck here.....2 times.....
#1. I suck at pcb layouts - especially when an opamp is involved - anyone wanna whip this up ?
#2. really pushing my luck as Rick just designed a tube tremelo due to my incessant hounding...but......sort out that tube panner dude ! that thing is off the wall... ;D
Thanks !!
Dan
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
Can anyone understand French here? I'd like this datasheet translated to check suitability for such a tube project ---> http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf (http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf). I can only find it in French and wouldn't have a clue how to decipher it. I happen to have one of these tubes lying around and want to put it to use
Otherwise known as a 4068, here's the data sheet in English: http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/009/4/4068.pdf
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 05:27:58 PM
The two 220K resistors form a voltage divider which is the vref for the opamp. The LFO is not my design, it appears in a few different designs, I have no idea who originated it. I just tweaked the values to suit the circuit.
Oh Duh how did I miss that?, it's so obvious.
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 06:33:14 PM
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
Can anyone understand French here? I'd like this datasheet translated to check suitability for such a tube project ---> http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf (http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf). I can only find it in French and wouldn't have a clue how to decipher it. I happen to have one of these tubes lying around and want to put it to use
Otherwise known as a 4068, here's the data sheet in English: http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/009/4/4068.pdf
Cheers! So by that, I guess it's not really suitable for anything pedal related... or am I missing something?
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 06:33:14 PM
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
Can anyone understand French here? I'd like this datasheet translated to check suitability for such a tube project ---> http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf (http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf). I can only find it in French and wouldn't have a clue how to decipher it. I happen to have one of these tubes lying around and want to put it to use
Otherwise known as a 4068, here's the data sheet in English: http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/009/4/4068.pdf
Cheers! So by that, I guess it's not really suitable for anything pedal related... or am I missing something?
I'd give it a try - what's stopping you? Tubes are very forgiving of abuse!
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
Can anyone understand French here? I'd like this datasheet translated to check suitability for such a tube project ---> http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf (http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf). I can only find it in French and wouldn't have a clue how to decipher it. I happen to have one of these tubes lying around and want to put it to use
Oui je comprends le Français ;) The difficulty here will be 'my english' ::) ;D
So it's a subminiature pentode
Heaters ('chauffage') : DC
only 1,25 V 8,2 mA (1,1 V min , 1,5 V max)
Grid 2 Voltage ('Tension de la grille') - see schematic on page 2 : 5V min / 6,5 V average / 7,5 V max
Grid 1 voltage at grid current inversion (there must be a better translation but I don't know... the idea suggested here is that there is a voltage at which point the current change) : - 1,15V average
Amplification factor ('Coefficient d'amplification'): 80 min /110 average
Plate voltage ('anode voltage') : 45 V max
Grid 2 volatge : 45 V max
cathod current must not exceed 18 uA
Soldering must be done a least at 0,51 inches from the tube glass envelop. Tube connections should be bend at least at 0,059 inches from the glass envelop
Hope this will help
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 07:01:39 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 06:59:43 PM
what's stopping you?
Knowledge
Just looking at the 4068 data sheet, I'm pretty sure it could be used in this circuit for example. You'd just have to observe the correct pinout as it differs from the 5672. Use a LM317 (as above) to power the heater @ pin 1. Pin 3 to ground. Pin 2 is the input. Pin 4 is the output. Apply the LFO to pin 5. Pin 1 probably has a red dot to identify it.
oops :o too late, Frequency Central seems to have answered quicker :)
Quote from: danielzink on May 03, 2009, 06:31:59 PM
#1. I suck at pcb layouts - especially when an opamp is involved - anyone wanna whip this up ?
I just bet Valoosj will provide one.
Quote from: danielzink on May 03, 2009, 06:31:59 PM
#2. really pushing my luck as Rick just designed a tube tremelo due to my incessant hounding...but......sort out that tube panner dude ! that thing is off the wall... ;D
Damn! I hoped you wouldn't notice. Ah well, back to the breadboard.
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: danielzink on May 03, 2009, 06:31:59 PM
#1. I suck at pcb layouts - especially when an opamp is involved - anyone wanna whip this up ?
I just bet Valoosj will provide one.
I will, when my tube arrives here I know what space it requires for an easy fit.
Lets see if we can cram it in an A size ...
Quote from: Darkness, Darkness on May 03, 2009, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 06:18:21 PM
Can anyone understand French here? I'd like this datasheet translated to check suitability for such a tube project ---> http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf (http://tubes.mkdw.net/sheets/084/m/ME1403.pdf). I can only find it in French and wouldn't have a clue how to decipher it. I happen to have one of these tubes lying around and want to put it to use
Oui je comprends le Français ;) The difficulty here will be 'my english' ::) ;D
So it's a subminiature pentode
Heaters ('chauffage') : DC only 1,25 V 8,2 mA (1,1 V min , 1,5 V max)
Grid 2 Voltage ('Tension de la grille') - see schematic on page 2 : 5V min / 6,5 V average / 7,5 V max
Grid 1 voltage at grid current inversion (there must be a better translation but I don't know... the idea suggested here is that there is a voltage at which point the current change) : - 1,15V average
Amplification factor ('Coefficient d'amplification'): 80 min /110 average
Plate voltage ('anode voltage') : 45 V max
Grid 2 volatge : 45 V max
cathod current must not exceed 18 uA
Soldering must be done a least at 0,51 inches from the tube glass envelop. Tube connections should be bend at least at 0,059 inches from the glass envelop
Hope this will help
Thankyou very much!
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 07:08:27 PM
Quote from: Cardboard Tube Samurai on May 03, 2009, 07:01:39 PM
Quote from: frequencycentral on May 03, 2009, 06:59:43 PM
what's stopping you?
Knowledge
Just looking at the 4068 data sheet, I'm pretty sure it could be used in this circuit for example. You'd just have to observe the correct pinout as it differs from the 5672. Use a LM317 (as above) to power the heater @ pin 1. Pin 3 to ground. Pin 2 is the input. Pin 4 is the output. Apply the LFO to pin 5. Pin 1 probably has a red dot to identify it.
There is indeed a red dot! Thanks. I will get around to this one day, but I've got so many projects on the boil at the moment, it will just have to wait
Out of curiosity, do you do these mini tube projects for fun, as a means to stretch your design skills, or because the use of tubes makes an appreciable difference in the end result? I always enjoy looking at them, and am very impressed at your work, but I haven't tried to do any of them because of the added difficulty and power incompatibility as compared to solid state, 9v projects that do "the same thing".
So I'm just wondering if you find the tube tremolo, for example, to have a unique sound that one couldn't get with any of the solid state trems, or if it's more a matter of doing something no one's done before, for fun.
Quote from: Taylor on May 03, 2009, 09:14:41 PM
Out of curiosity, do you do these mini tube projects for fun, as a means to stretch your design skills, or because the use of tubes makes an appreciable difference in the end result? I always enjoy looking at them, and am very impressed at your work, but I haven't tried to do any of them because of the added difficulty and power incompatibility as compared to solid state, 9v projects that do "the same thing".
So I'm just wondering if you find the tube tremolo, for example, to have a unique sound that one couldn't get with any of the solid state trems, or if it's more a matter of doing something no one's done before, for fun.
I've always preferred tube amps to solid state. I have nothing against solid state per se, I've built a couple of modular synths which are exclusively solid state. My last couple of builds have been a Big Muff and a Clari(not), I'm currently working on a Magnus Modulus and a Phase 45 with Maillet mods. I'm also in the process of breadboarding 'Event Horizon' (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76106.0), which is solid state.
I built my first Valvecaster about a year ago, and loved it of course. It peaked my curiosity as to what else could be done with tubes. Then I came across Ton's work (puretube) and was just amazed. It set me on the course I'm still on right now, which is to design as broad a range of tube based effects as I can. Each design teaches me lessons which I can apply to the next one. I personally think my 'peak' has been 'Vintage Vibe' (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=74262.0), which has been compared sonically (not by me) to the Magnatone vibrato sound. I'm now trying to develop that idea into a phaser.
Yes it's fun, and stretches my skills as there are so few points of reference for this kind of stuff. With solid state design, it's always a case of looking over your shoulder at what others have done before, there's always an answer. I now find that I understand tubes more than I do solid state due to my incessant breadboarding. I won't hang up my tubes until I've exhausted the possibilities, so phase, wah, envelope filter and octaves are all still to come.
Regarding the added difficulty and power incompatibility, I don't think tubes are any more difficult than SS, and the 5672 projects in particular are easily integrated into the conventional 9 volt world, each 5672 draws 50ma for the heater and it's easy to drive the 1.25 volt heater voltage from a 9 volt supply. It's also possible to get up to (much) higher voltages using charge pumps and SMPS's from a 9 volt suppy.
As for having a unique sound, it's probably more appropriate for others to comment on that. Each effect, be it BJT, FET, IC or tube has it's own sound. My stuff just provides an alternative.
Ultimately though, I just do it because I'm Steampunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk)!
Rick and Dan, you both have PM.
Anyone have a second to check my PCB layout? Please go easy on me. I had several things not in my favor:
1) This is my first layout, software or otherwise. I've strictly used layouts done by other folks.
2) I don't have a tube or the enclosure.
3) I've never done a circuit with a tube before.
Ok, so excuses aside, does it work? Any errors, omissions, faux pas, etc.? Advice?
Thanks!
Quote from: nosamiam on May 14, 2009, 07:33:41 PM
Anyone have a second to check my PCB layout? Please go easy on me. I had several things not in my favor:
1) This is my first layout, software or otherwise. I've strictly used layouts done by other folks.
2) I don't have a tube or the enclosure.
3) I've never done a circuit with a tube before.
Ok, so excuses aside, does it work? Any errors, omissions, faux pas, etc.? Advice?
Thanks!
I don't see it, that's problem number one! :icon_biggrin:
And why is that a problem?? :icon_rolleyes:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/nosamiam/DeliriumTremoloPCBLayout.png)
Sorry, it's kind of tiny.
Oh, whoops! I already see something screwy with the output cap/volume pot/"out" wire. Anything else?
Fixed (also fixed in original image).
Bump.
Anyone??
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/nosamiam/DeliriumTremoloPCBLayout.png)
No bites? Ok, I guess I'll build it in a couple of weeks and see how it goes.
Quote from: nosamiam on May 15, 2009, 05:39:18 PM
No bites? Ok, I guess I'll build it in a couple of weeks and see how it goes.
I'll check it over the weekend!
Direct link to the schematic (my photobucket is down right now) : http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/967492/Delirium%20Tremolo.JPG
Caught another oops. I also managed to get it grown-up sized. I think this should be good now. Let us know how it looks when you get a chance, Rick! I'm looking forward to building it, however I'm broke as a joke right now. But when I do get $$ I've got projects LINED UP!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/nosamiam/DeliriumTremolov11-1.png)
Well guys, you've had 2 months now...............let me see your builds!!
danielzink - I designed this specially for you - where is your build? :icon_rolleyes:
Explain yourselves sirs!
Mine is nearly done! Just waiting for one pot to come in.
Here are some pics.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/Valoosj/Image8.jpg)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/Valoosj/Image7.jpg)
You squeezed it into a 1590A - you insane fool! :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: frequencycentral on July 04, 2009, 11:26:40 AM
You squeezed it into a 1590A - you insane fool! :icon_mrgreen:
Why thank you, thank you very much. Still need to do the wiring though.
And I don't have a lot of time, so don't expect to see this one finished before august.
Love your new sig Yorick!
A great man once told me something that held a lot of truth ...
Hi guys.
I´ve made something similar, with the same LFO but with a 6CB6 tube instead of the subminis.
Here´s a Pic of a Provisory box:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10270761_10202834630779800_8287738368958253305_n.jpg)
It works Really fine, but got some G note-hum when the Depth Pot is decreasing. In minimun settings, it´s very acceptable, but from the middle to max, it´s annoying.
I´m powering the circuit with a regulated and Filtered wall wart with an LM7812 Regulator.
Another trouble is that the LFO reaches just 7,5 Volt maximun. So, the Overall Volume Falls down.
Any idea? ???
So it seems like not very many people have built this, why is that? I just built one and have a few questions.
I find it gets a bit too much boost for my taste, how could we lower the usable range of boost? change the plate resistor? I am running it off a 9v supply.
Would/could this pedal benefit from a higher B+ voltage? Maybe 45-80v with a boost circuit like your Murder One? could we use the same LFO to drive a transistor used like a switch?
I have a bit more break up then I would like, especially in the low volume of the sweep when the Depth is set high.