I've built a big multi-effect setup in sort of a suitcase. I've been powering it from a store-bought wall-wart, but now I want to put an IEC outlet on it so I can have a nice detachable cord that plugs it into the wall.
I purchased a couple of 1.5A power supplies from a member here awhile ago. I actually think just one of these will be necessary. The AC side of the supply has 2 solder pins - labeled ACL and ACN.
How should I wire these to the IEC outlet/jack? I was told by somebody that ACL and ACN are interchangeable, but I want to make sure that's not BS before I taste 120v. Should I connect the ground pin of the IEC cord to the central ground point of my circuit, or do I not need to do that since the ground is already attached to the negative of the DC supply output?
I know these are sort of noobish questions, but I obviously don't want to experiment and find out the hard way.
In a lot of designs, ACN and ACL are interchangeable. Think about your average wall wart power supply; you can plug it in upside-down (a lot of time you have to to make it fit) and it still works. It's likely that yours is too, but not definite. A schematic might tell you.
AC power has no polarity. It is an alternating current. If you look at a sine wave, it starts at zero goes to +120v back to zero goes to -120v and back to zero. The white wire (in the field) is thought of as negative, and the black as positive. They do this just to keep wiring consistant. And green is your ground.
So, this will be way off topic but, what are the instances where polarity matters? There must be, otherwise why would they go through the trouble of making 2-prong plugs that only fit one way into a wall socket?
make sure you wear rubber gloves ;)
For ease of installation. You could make the wide side narrow, and flip the cord around and it will work.
Quote from: caspercody on June 09, 2009, 04:37:03 PM
AC power has no polarity. It is an alternating current. If you look at a sine wave, it starts at zero goes to +120v back to zero goes to -120v and back to zero. The white wire (in the field) is thought of as negative, and the black as positive. They do this just to keep wiring consistant. And green is your ground.
Ok, but since I've got the ground connected to the DC output's negative terminal, would there be any use in also connecting it to the ground prong of the IEC jack?
The ground on the IEC jack is there for safety reasons- so you definitely want to ground that to whatever enclosure/chassis you're using- assuming it's a conductive material of some sort. It keeps the chassis from electrocuting you if you get a short.
If you don't know exactly what you're doing, definitely enlist the help of someone who does.
Quote from: MikeH on June 09, 2009, 05:33:18 PM
If you don't know exactly what you're doing, definitely enlist the help of someone who does.
That's what I'm tryin' to do right now, man. :icon_wink:
My enclosure is not conductive - it's wood.
Quote from: Taylor on June 09, 2009, 05:41:49 PM
Quote from: MikeH on June 09, 2009, 05:33:18 PM
If you don't know exactly what you're doing, definitely enlist the help of someone who does.
That's what I'm tryin' to do right now, man. :icon_wink:
This is not good enough. You *cannot* learn enough to do this safely from this forum. The wink indicates you're not taking this seriously enough.
What follows is a partial, incomplete list of some things I'd worry about. It is possible to do all of this and still get electrocuted, or burned up in a fire, or cause your loved ones or strangers to be killed or hurt either immediately or long in the future if you do some detail wrong. What you're needing to do is to build the stuff so it complies with UL60650 or IEC60650 standards, which is itself a many-page standard. Following the stuff below will not get you there. It's just an introduction - a warning about what you're getting into.
The three AC power wires are Line (L), Neutral (N) and Ground. They are marked as L, N and the triangle ground symbol on the IEC inlet. If you use a standard IEC cord, the voltages on the back of the IEC inlet will appear that way.
Apparently the power supply you were sent makes a distinction between the line and neutral connections; I would guess that ACL connects to Line, and ACN connects to neutral, but you should be able to get that clarified by the guy who sent you the supplies.
1. Enclosures. For safety's sake, all of the connections to the IEC outlet and to the the power supply must be made inside an all-metal enclosure that has no hole you can poke a wire through and touch a live AC connection. The minimum size of the test wire is 1mm, or 0.03937". Slots, vents, and other openings must leave less than 1mm open. This does two things: it keeps fingers and other body parts out of the wiring and keeps molten or burning stuff inside if there is an electrical fire inside. Effectively, there has to be a continuous metal shell around everything with hazardous voltage wiring inside. Unless your suitcase is itself metal, this probably means the IEC and power supply have to be mounted inside a metal box inside the suitcase.
2. Grounding. The neutral (N) wire must not touch any metallic conductor that you can touch. It most especially must not touch the secondary ground of the power supply. That's because it can conduct lethal currents. But it will also make your gear hum intolerably. The third wire ground must be connected to the metal case the hazardous wiring is in. It must be connected in a manner that it will not come loose from vibration or age. Do not solder it. Solder is not reliable for mechanical connections.
I have seen ground lines connected this way: a hole is drilled through the metal casing. A screw is inserted from the outside. On the inside, a toothed lock washer is placed over the screw, then a ring terminal which is crimped to the end of the safety ground wire is placed over the screw, then another toothed lock washer placed over the ring terminal. On top of these three, a nut is tightened down onto the screw until it's firmly in place. The bottom toothed washer bites into the metal enclosure and into the ring terminal, ensuring reliable long term metal to metal contact. The upper toothed washer holds the nut in place. The ring terminal is crimped onto the wire, not soldered. Solder will cold-flow and creep under tension, crimping will not. I have seen solid copper wires of 18gauge or more used in grounding by taking a 3/4 or more turn around the grounding screw in lieu of a properly crimped ring terminal, but this obviously can't be done if you use stranded ground wire. Tinning stranded wire is not acceptable for this as the solder can cold flow. Whichever of the outputs of the power supply you will use as signal ground should be connected to third wire ground inside the metal enclosure. Every place you can touch anything metal, the metal must be grounded to the ground lug on the IEC connector. The connection must be less than (as I remember) 0.05 ohms, and must support a 25A (as I remember) current without burning out.
3. Fusing. You need to use a fuse on the line (L) side of the power wiring. It should be just large enough that the startup current of the power supply does not blow it. It should be UL/CSA/TUV... etc. rated for 250Vac and for the appropriate current. The fuse is not there to protect you, or the power supply. It's there to prevent electrical fires from starting. Well, OK, to keep them from continuing. Ideally, the IEC connector you got will have a fuse holder built in. If it does not, you must get a safety agency (UL/CSA/TUV/CE...) approved and listed fuse holder. The fuse must be in the Line (L) wire, not in the neutral line.
4. Wiring. Wires should be insulated and UL/CSA/TUV/CE... listed and so labeled on the wire insulation. Use the correct color wires for primary power wiring.It is not required, but I like to put heat shrink over the connections to AC power after I make the connections. Wiring should be done so that the wire cannot rub against sharp edges or points and wear through the insulation; also it must be restrained so that if one wire breaks , it is not possible for the broken wire to be moved to any place where it will cause an electrical hazard outside the enclosure. For instance, if the wire from the IEC "L" connection were to break on the far end from the IEC, it should not be possible for it to be stretched to contact any other wire that exits the enclosure, or for it to snake out through a hole. Switches, fuse holders, anything that has AC power wiring to it must be restrained from rotating in place so it cannot be twisted and break the internal wires by rotation, even many rotations. Wires must be large enough gauge that if they could force the fuse to blow rather than melting the insulation on the wires in a shorted (fault) condition. Soldered connections must be mechanically held in place by bending the wire itself before soldering. Crimped terminal connections must be crimped in a way that secures the terminal to the wire against any reasonable pull. There is another whole layer of these instructions on how to make a secure crimp.
5. Creepage and clearance. Your wiring and parts must ensure that a minimum distance through air (clearance) or over surfaces (creepage) between metal carrying hazardous voltages and both (a) live current carrying connectors of opposite polarity and (b) metal parts conductively connected to accessible metal parts (that's metal you can touch) is maintained. The creepage and clearance distances are determined by a table taking into account the voltages and degree of contamination likely inside the equipment by dust, dirt, humidity, etc.
6. Switching. You didn't mention a switch. If you intend to use a switch, the terminals must be inside that metal enclosure with the rest of the hazardous stuff. The fuse may break only the line (L) side or may break both line and neutral. If it only breaks one, it must be the Line (L) side. If you use a power switch, get one that's already safety agency (UL/CSA/TUV/CE...) approved and marked.
As I said, this is only a thin overview. Each of the topics has several layers underneath.
This is serious stuff, literally life and death being involved. It is possible to hurt or kill yourself or people you love even years later after you've forgotten what you did. Please - go get experienced help before you proceed.
Well, I figured the mention of death in the title would be enough to make clear that I am serious about this. After seeing what's necessary, I'll probably get an electrician to do it, or maybe just forego the IEC cord and stick with a wall wart.
Thanks for the in-depth response, RG.
Quote from: MikeH on June 09, 2009, 04:41:24 PM
So, this will be way off topic but, what are the instances where polarity matters? There must be, otherwise why would they go through the trouble of making 2-prong plugs that only fit one way into a wall socket?
If I'm not mistaken, the white wires are grounded back at the panel in home wiring. Power company supplies you with 240 in the states. The white wire is a tap in the middle of that. The two black wires then are kind of the meat of the circuit. The potential between the two black wires give you the 240 for the oven and dryer power. With the white, you have essentially two out of phase 120 circuits in your home. You have to wire all of your lights on the white side of light switches because if you don't, you could catch a potential between the socket and ground when you're changing the light bulb and ZAP! Electrocuted without the switch even being on. There's 0v potential between the white and ground, i'm almost sure. I think of it as the black pushing AND pulling, and the white's just there to give it something to hold on to.
... hope that made some sense
Quote from: trendyironicname on June 09, 2009, 07:44:39 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the white wires are grounded back at the panel in home wiring. Power company supplies you with 240 in the states. The white wire is a tap in the middle of that.
Yes - the power distribution transformer gets input at high voltage, often 1300V, sometimes more and sometimes three phase. You get one secondary that's effectively 240V center tapped. This is sent to your main entry panel as a black wire, a red wire, and a "ground" wire - the center tap.
QuoteThe two black wires then are kind of the meat of the circuit. The potential between the two black wires give you the 240 for the oven and dryer power. With the white, you have essentially two out of phase 120 circuits in your home.
That's correct. The electrician wires your house to approximately equal loads on Red and Black, both of which feed return current through the "neutral" centertap. That return current is why the "neutral" is never really at 0V unless all the breakers are off. "Neutral" is connected to a ground rod or wire both at the power pole and at your AC power entrance. I actually have two ground rods, one at each end of the house.
QuoteYou have to wire all of your lights on the white side of light switches because if you don't, you could catch a potential between the socket and ground when you're changing the light bulb and ZAP! Electrocuted without the switch even being on.
Actually, the way to say this is that the switch is in the high (black) side of the light so it disconnects the socket from Line when turned off. The right way to wire this (as I understand from reading books on the National Electrical Code; I may be wrong) is to bring the 12/2-G cable with the imbedded black and white wire to the switch box from the breaker panel. Another length of 12/2-G cable goes to the light socket, where white is wired to the outer shell, black is wired to the center contact. Back in the switch box, the black from the light socket is wired to one side of the switch, and the breaker side black wire to the other side of the switch. But that's just how I read it, and why your homeowner's insurance will not pay off on any electrical fire if they find that someone other than a licensed electrician has wired the place in many localities. Bad juju indeed. Not a good position for junior-grade self taught electricians to be in.
QuoteThere's 0v potential between the white and ground, i'm almost sure.
There is almost always a few volts of difference from the return currents and the I x R in the return neutral wire. This is in fact why the third wire was added.
There can be some really funny things happen. If the return neutral line is not connected well inside the breaker panel, you lave a high resistance neutral. When that happens, any imbalance in load between the red and black sides of the AC line with respect to neutral causes the house "neutral" to be offset until the loads balance. If you have a high resistance neutral from the panel to the pole, and you have a heavy load on one side only of your two 120V phases, then the voltage on the heavily loaded phase goes up and the voltage on the lightly loaded phase goes up as they pull neutral off center. You can get 60-80Vac on one side and 160-180Vac on the oither side. What will *that* do to your new plasma TV? :icon_lol:
So you guys dont help me when i ask for it, but you explain everything to him, (everything i already know now no thanks to you guys) but to top it off, you male fun of me behind my back and snicker while you help someone else do the same thing??? Thats messed up!
I just biult my amp and it works fine. A little hum, but i didnt shield it. You guys all tried to make it sound like rocket science. And it turns out you all took me for an idiot! I cant beleive how simple it was! Wtf?!?
And it even turns out this guy knew LESS than i did!! What my whole thread last week a running joke?!? Was the project so simple you all made fun of me for asking for help?? I cant beleive this!
You even gave him step by step instructions! Please explain why!
I may not know much on the subject, but your best bet would be to just learn the theory vs. the technique. Which I believe was what everyone else was trying to say.
If no one explained to you why what you were doing was bad, then read a book or take class, not harass the people trying to save your life.
Are you talking to me? Im wasnt "harassing" anyone, i made a few posts in the thread!
Quote from: El Heisenberg on June 10, 2009, 03:35:34 AM
And it even turns out this guy knew LESS than i did!! What my whole thread last week a running joke?!? Was the project so simple you all made fun of me for asking for help?? I cant beleive this!
No. You said you were going to hook 120vAC directly to a 12vDC voltage regulator. That is indicative of less knowledge than my post, because I am trying to connect AC to something that is supposed to be connected to AC.
Plus, I acknowledged the possibility of death, and you didn't - people need to know that you know the dangers of dealing with AC.
I wouldn't be talking to anybody else.
You were speaking to them like they were idiots, because they were telling you it was wrong.
Mommy doesn't say why not to touch the cookie jar, she just says not to.
Mommy will spank you if you don't abide.
Quote from: El Heisenberg on June 10, 2009, 03:33:36 AM
So you guys dont help me when i ask for it, but you explain everything to him, (everything i already know now no thanks to you guys) but to top it off, you male fun of me behind my back and snicker while you help someone else do the same thing??? Thats messed up!
I just biult my amp and it works fine. A little hum, but i didnt shield it. You guys all tried to make it sound like rocket science. And it turns out you all took me for an idiot! I cant beleive how simple it was! Wtf?!?
======
And it even turns out this guy knew LESS than i did!! What my whole thread last week a running joke?!? Was the project so simple you all made fun of me for asking for help?? I cant beleive this!
======
You even gave him step by step instructions! Please explain why!
======
Are you talking to me? Im wasnt "harassing" anyone, i made a few posts in the thread!
Sigh.
I guess that's a fair question in spite of my not liking the tone. Against my better judgment, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you a bit of explanation. I have no expectation that it will help, even though it's intended to be friendly advice.
The best explanation is your tone and general attitude. I don't know your actual age or how it compares to Taylor. But he sounds a lot more mature than you do in terms of being willing to take advice and learn from it. If you'll re-read the posts here and back at your post, you'll see the advice was the same - don't do it yourself, get someone already skilled to help you. I could click off a number of "the advice was the same" issues, but I doubt you'd see them that way, so I won't bother to list them unless you really do want to learn and are willing to sit still and do it.
The difference was that the message was given to both you and Taylor in the language and terms you could best (in my opinion) accept and profit from. While I just posted my opinion, apparently I wasn't the only one who saw it in a similar light. In Taylor's case, knowing more made him cautious, and he'll both live longer and learn more for the approach. In your case it was obvious that you were going to go blasting through it and do as you liked anyway; my experience is that people with that attitude can't be taught, they have to be herded into finding things out for themselves. Call it a difficulty with sitting still, listening and internalizing what they're told. And what a surprise! Subsequent events (at least as reported in the highly fictionalized world of forums) proved that to be accurate.
You're angry at being what you perceive as slighted. You are almost certain not to be able to see that the advice was the same and that it was just custom crafted to be as appropriate to the person hearing it as possible in such a constrained medium. You probably can't understand that what you were told and the way it was told was out of a genuine concern that you not get hurt and a hope that you learn and live to enjoy the hobby.
Unfortunately, I observe that people often create how they get responded to. I'd be willing to bet any significant amount of money that you and Taylor get very different responses in similar situations all your lives. If it didn't matter to you that you get the kind of response you did, that would be one thing, but until you can get outside your own head and think about your audience and how they react to you, its not likely to change.
And I wish that wasn't as accurate as I think it is because I really do wish you well.
i think a lot of it comes from how you come across. I very rarely ever call anything out but you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. The people here aren't paid to do anything and we're not well behaved circus dogs who have to jump through a hoop just for your pleasure. By the time I read your post, you were already jumping on people for not spoon feeding you exactly what you wanted. That probably turns a lot of people away from a purely emotional standpoint. I say this because I DO want to help you. Learn the least amount of etiquette, and you'll see this is the BEST place to find it. Albeit, find it. There's a search function at the top. That should be the first place to look. Go there, find what you can, then come back and formulate a question to tie it together. But, learn all you can before asking. It's right there, and a lot easier than someone retyping what they said about the same question a year and a half ago. AND I guarantee, if you stop coming with this attitude, you'll eventually leave with what you're looking for.
Once again, you say it 1000X's better R.G.
I am not going to read thru all the posts, but lets see if I am reading this right. You have a power supply, can I get a model number? That you want to use to power up your pedals. And in one hand you have a (3) prong 120vac cord. On the power supply there either is a (2) screw terminal, or (2) black wires. Connect the ac cord to the (2) screw terminals or black wires, does not matter which goes to which. And the green wire from the cord, connect to the metal chassis of the power supply.
Comment removed due to extreme snarkieness
It's good to know about the dangers of AC but sometimes you just gotta start doing it and learn as you go. Of course you should research each step of what you are doing but a VARIAC will help makes things much safer. Start with lower settings and slowly work up. You shuold use a scope also. Observe one hand rule.
Quote from: igor12 on June 10, 2009, 12:06:16 PM
It's good to know about the dangers of AC but sometimes you just gotta start doing it and learn as you go.
No.
120/240 kills.
The higher the voltage, the less chance you
have to make mistakes.
Building what you want a month earlier(because you don't have time to figure out exactly what it is you are doing) is no reason to put your life/house/livelihood in danger.
Learn first.
Working on live AC: those who DO know what they're doing keep one hand in their pocket; those who don't know keep both hands in their pockets.
I 100% agree with the last post. Definitely don't go the "try it and see" approach to learning to work on mains equipment. Read up, then read some more. The general postings here are not the place to learn good and safe working practices, even those posted by the more experienced forum members. There is a tonne of info out there, including plenty that is accessible to the neophite. If your life is worth reading a few books before starting work, I suggest you do just that.
the thing that is scary about high voltage and amps is how many people who have good skills and knowledge also have stories of close calls, serious burns, small fires, etc.
Anyone who wants to learn all by themselves is going to have to (or may) make all of the mistakes that the others have made.
The scariest thing about it is that it only takes one mistake. No oops. Just POW!
Quote from: MikeH on June 10, 2009, 10:42:54 AM
Comment removed due to extreme snarkieness
Man oh man, do I wish I could do that in real life.
Quote from: caspercody on June 10, 2009, 09:46:21 AM
I am not going to read thru all the posts, but lets see if I am reading this right. You have a power supply, can I get a model number? That you want to use to power up your pedals. And in one hand you have a (3) prong 120vac cord. On the power supply there either is a (2) screw terminal, or (2) black wires. Connect the ac cord to the (2) screw terminals or black wires, does not matter which goes to which. And the green wire from the cord, connect to the metal chassis of the power supply.
This is the information I was originally looking for, but I realize now that it is not the information I really needed. As many others have pointed out, it's not so much about what wires go where as making sure it doesn't kill me or burn my house down years from now. So, I really think it's worth it to get an electrician to help me out here. It's not that it's impossibly difficult, it's just that there's a lot of room for tiny mistakes, which would have big impact.
Thanks everybody.
I am really impressed that you guys are trying so hard to keep people safe, no matter what their tone. To me that indicates an incredibly generous spirit of giving, and I am just really impressed.
Thanks!
Im sorry for my tone. And this is the last time i will post in taylors thread.
I did follow your advice. I sought out someone in the forum who lived in town and asked for help. He just told me it wasnt that hard and gave me a pragraphs worth of instructions and i was done. I think ive been makingbit gard to gauge my level of experience and knowledge through my posts. I type on an i phone so there are lotsa typos and and i just text my thoughts, stream o concious-like and hit "post". I also use ! Marks alot. :)
I appreciate all your help. I dont know how to chabge the way i talk though! I know you guys arent obligated to help me. My frustration was that you guy seemed to treat me like you thought i was stupid. Posting rolling eye icons and comparing me to a child being told to stay out of the cookie jar, etc. How had MY tone compared to that? Exclamation points!?!? :) someone even posted in th power thread which led me here to find you all making fun of me for a JOKE that someone else said would be a good idea!!
I was joking about rubber gloves! I thought youd be able to tell since i said "rubber gloves amd rubber BOOTIES"! Here you're joking about me while giving him exaclty what i was requesting! You even told him which color wire to hook up where! And you guys thought i couldnt follow those instrictions?! :)
See here i know you guys are reading this far an thinking "hes not willin to listen to anybody" no im jist trying to convey how i felt and why i posted that way. Youbguy are always gunna think im like this. I know you guys are trying to help, but when you made it sound like quantum physics i started asking more questions like "how can it be so hard!? What could go wrong!?" sinve i already KNEW, it turns out, exactly what i was doing!! I wish i could take pictures and post on the forum! Ipohone doesnt let you do anything eith the pics you take though :)
Im sorry. I hope you guys dont take my tone the wrong way :). Im going to use smiley faces from now on.
Ps. Again, i know that i was wrong and my tone cpmes across bad. Im sorry. Its
My fualt.
Thanks RG
Dude, that's cool of you. This post makes me realize that I may have rushed to judgment and I apologize. I guess the typed word is kind of cold and unable to express nuances of personality that wouldn't sound bad if relayed with a little wink or something in real life. I came here(well, the forerunner of this) knowing ABSOLUTELY nothing in 2000. You're way ahead of the curve on that one. I think a lot of my reluctance when it comes to wall outlet stuff is that I really don't want it on my conscience to tell some just enough to get them in trouble. If someone gets to a certain point and has a specific question on something that I've encountered before, yeah, I have no fear of saying, "that worked for me" or "I saw this diagram." I just don't want to give someone a false sense of safety if I'm not entirely sure where they're at on other details. The hvac guy who came to fix our air in my old house wound up dying in my attic and starting a fire that destroyed a corner of the house because the power coming into the house went there before going to the main breaker box. He had 20 plus years on the job doing the same thing. It wasn't his fault entirely either; the company contracted by the previous owner didn't do it right to start with. He should've checked it. They should have done their job right. I'm scared, not only for myself, but anyone who ever touches the stuff I've "fixed." People are overwhelmingly chill and nice here if you continue to give us a chance. A/C will probably always raise concerns for anyone doing it. Mostly out of legitimate goodwill and non-wanting-someone-to-die-fiery-deathism. As far as missed sarcasm and all that, it's cool. Since we don't have the luxury of face to face conversation, it's kind of hard to tie a specific emotion to a specific person here. Same worded questions will usually elicit the same set of responses, regardless of the name beside it. It's hard to alienate people for too long if you're not actively trying to. Everyone's here to learn and to help. And, we also have resident godfathers of diy here in rg, mark and a WHOLE lot of others. By far the most useful page I've ever bookmarked.
BTW, glad you're here.
Cool. Taylor already solved job prob so i can post again. Thanks for understandin
Also by "what could go wrong" i mean "i dont know what could go wrong, tell me) instwad of "i know everything. Nothing could go wrong!" :)
Quote from: El Heisenberg on June 11, 2009, 03:58:55 AM
Cool. Taylor already solved job prob so i can post again. Thanks for understandin
Also by "what could go wrong" i mean "i dont know what could go wrong, tell me) instwad of "i know everything. Nothing could go wrong!" :)
sorry, but i was sure they said "death" quite a bit
Ok, ill re-phrase it yet again:
"what might i do wrong that would kill me?"
Wht are you trying to say i shouldnt have said i was too beligerent?? What do want from me? I didnt say anything wrong to you. This isnt all me.
It can be strange sometimes as written and verbal comments can come across so different to each other. I have read plenty of messages that i have posted on forums and when read back, can have different meanings to what was intended. Its so easy to get it wrong. When typing something, it seems easy (as the poster knows exactly what he means) but from other peoples perspective it could read like complete rubbish or arrogance or anything else.
I enjoy reading R.G's responses as he seems to be able to type, in a very well thought out way that is easy to read and understand, not just R.G ,there are plenty other posters as well.
Also we must remember that forums have plenty people to whom english is not there first language, so it can be difficult for them to say what they want in a way others would read.
Quote from: Ice-9 on June 11, 2009, 06:43:56 AM
It can be strange sometimes as written and verbal comments can come across so different to each other. I have read plenty of messages that i have posted on forums and when read back, can have different meanings to what was intended. Its so easy to get it wrong. When typing something, it seems easy (as the poster knows exactly what he means) but from other peoples perspective it could read like complete rubbish or arrogance or anything else.
I enjoy reading R.G's responses as he seems to be able to type, in a very well thought out way that is easy to read and understand, not just R.G ,there are plenty other posters as well.
Also we must remember that forums have plenty people to whom english is not there first language, so it can be difficult for them to say what they want in a way others would read.
Oh, that's precise!!
Quote from: Taylor on June 10, 2009, 03:32:56 PM
So, I really think it's worth it to get an electrician to help me out here. It's not that it's impossibly difficult, it's just that there's a lot of room for tiny mistakes, which would have big impact.
Very sound reasoning.