Hello All,
Here is the complete description of my Mosrite FuzzRite Ventures in a 1590A Hammond box. (as already pictured in the 1590A section).
As you can see, it is a standalone unit, because it has the battery, the ext PSU jack, the led indicator, etc... Exactly like a standard-sized pedal.
External views :
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/575859IMG7601.jpg)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/299145IMG7602.jpg)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/708383IMG7603.jpg)
Internal view, with and without wiring, Vero PCB :
(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/833488IMG7587.jpg)
(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/832469IMG7589.jpg)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/128147IMG7609.jpg)
Schematics, wiring, layout :
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/307103FuzzRiteVenturesschematic.jpg)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/801977FuzzRiteVenturesVeroLayout.jpg)
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/954567FuzzRiteVentureswiring.jpg)
About the sound :
Listen to http://www.deezer.com/fr/?incr=1#music/result/all/the%20ventures%20the%202000%20pound%20bee (http://www.deezer.com/fr/?incr=1#music/result/all/the%20ventures%20the%202000%20pound%20bee) : it's exactly that.
A+!
stunning .... absolutely stunning.
Wire acrobat :icon_mrgreen:
Like your graphics too
I never dared to build as small as that, since kicking them in always moves them a feet
Thanks so far, Steven...
I don't understand very well what you mean by :
QuoteI never dared to build as small as that, since kicking them in always moves them a feet
But yes, the challenge is to enter
all the stuff of a standard stompbox in a 1590A : you need to study the size and relative position of the elements; that's the main task, in fact.
On this forum, there is many talented 1590A specialists (with graphic artwork way more sophisticated than my "plexi" method), but usually the units are not standalone and require external supply, compulsory to save space for more complex circuits, like phasers, flangers... Most of them being designed for a pedalboard use.
I like very much this pedalboard-friendly box format, but as I do not use pedalboard, a standalone unit was unavoidable for me, an the idea to power it by the A23 battery is a very good idea, moreover coming from one of you from this forum (sorry, I do not remember the name !). And it works well !
I am planning to build in this "1590A-standalone-compact-complete" style an IC-based overdrive, and a non-photocell tremolo. Wait and see...
A+!
thats tiny..... i cant hear the clips though?...
the link doesnt play anything...or am i being a dumbass again.. :P
Hi deadastronaut,
I just clicked again the link displayed here a few minutes ago to be sure : it works... You should hear too... Otherwise go to deezer.com and make a search...
Nonetheless The Ventures "The 2000 Pound Bee" can be found somewhere else, as it is a well-known recording using the Mosrite FuzzRite, reputedly being the 1st commercial fuzz built (1962), according to the legend...
My FuzzRite sounds exactly like that. Sorry I have no simple and efficient mean to record and post samples, and it's a pity. If you know how to do it (like for your tiny tremolooooooooooetc), please let me know. Thanks !
A+!
hi bruno,
i joined dropbox, you have a folder with all your 'public' files in.. nice and simple to use..and free too...
just drop your file/wav/pic etc into the dropbox folder, then it will have a green tick on it ... right click on the file and copy ' public link'
then paste anywhere....really cool...hope that helps... :icon_cool:
Quote from: tubelectron on March 22, 2011, 08:07:44 AM
Thanks so far, Steven...
I don't understand very well what you mean
Tiny boxes are light. You
need to attach them with velcro, or click them in something or they will move around when stomping them.
That's why I prefer bigger and heavier.
Circuits like boosters and things like fuzzrites / fuzz faces usually are ideal to be put together in one big stompbox.
The pedal looks great, and your documentation is excellent! (I wish mine was that neat.)
The original Fuzzrite had a 22k resistor to ground between the capacitor from the collector of Q2 and the fuzz potentiometer. The resistor creates a high pass filter, giving the pedal even more buzz. It sounds good either way, just a different tone.
QuoteThe original Fuzzrite had a 22k resistor to ground between the capacitor from the collector of Q2 and the fuzz potentiometer. The resistor creates a high pass filter, giving the pedal even more buzz. It sounds good either way, just a different tone.
Yes, Electron Tornado.
I saw the 22K resistor on a Ge version of the FuzzRite, but not on the Si version - looking at the schematics and pictures I have collected - I never had in hands an original FuzzRite in hands to check. On the Ge, the Fuzz pot is labelled "tone", and it certainly acts as an HPF.
On the Si, the pot is labelled "Fuzz" and acts as a real fuzz control. Or may be it's rather a mix between fuzz and tone on the Ge... I didn't paid attention to this detail, in fact, so your info is worth to note and try, then.
A+!
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 22, 2011, 08:37:41 AM
hi bruno,
i joined dropbox, you have a folder with all your 'public' files in.. nice and simple to use..and free too...
just drop your file/wav/pic etc into the dropbox folder, then it will have a green tick on it ... right click on the file and copy ' public link'
then paste anywhere....really cool...hope that helps... :icon_cool:
Thanks Rob for the info. Do you use your PC for recording or an external device ?
hi bruno, yep..
i use a usb soundcard ( emu 0202) with a mixer...soundforge for a quick clip..
cubase sx3 for full on stuff...
Quote from: tubelectron on March 22, 2011, 01:14:25 PM
I saw the 22K resistor on a Ge version of the FuzzRite, but not on the Si version - looking at the schematics and pictures I have collected - I never had in hands an original FuzzRite in hands to check. On the Ge, the Fuzz pot is labelled "tone", and it certainly acts as an HPF.
On the Si, the pot is labelled "Fuzz" and acts as a real fuzz control. Or may be it's rather a mix between fuzz and tone on the Ge... I didn't paid attention to this detail, in fact, so your info is worth to note and try, then.
The "fuzz" pot in really a mix control regardless of whether it's a a Ge or Si version. Using a smaller value than 500k will help make it more useable in intermediate positions.
The 22k resistor gets left off of some schematics because it's not on the circuit board, but wired directly from the pot lug to ground. I found that in some photos of gut shots that are on the web. I'm not sure if the photos were the Ge or Si version, but I'll bet it's there in both. In the clone I built I wired it with a switch. Sounds good either way.
QuoteThe "fuzz" pot in really a mix control regardless of whether it's a a Ge or Si version. Using a smaller value than 500k will help make it more useable in intermediate positions.
The 22k resistor gets left off of some schematics because it's not on the circuit board, but wired directly from the pot lug to ground. I found that in some photos of gut shots that are on the web. I'm not sure if the photos were the Ge or Si version, but I'll bet it's there in both. In the clone I built I wired it with a switch. Sounds good either way.
Ah - OK, Electron Tornado. If I knew that in time, I would have experimented it before building my FuzzRite. Incidentally, I did not noticed an obvious lack of level or smoothness in transistion on the 500K LIN pot rotation (I will check more accurately, then)... Is that what you mean by useable ? finally, what pot value did you choose (I know that it may have been 350K or originals, but...) ?
In addition, you may see that I used BC109C (Hfe = 560 @ Ib=1µA) after several trials (from 2N1613 to MPSA18). What are the types you have retained ? what Hfe values ?
A+!
Quotehi bruno, yep..
i use a usb soundcard ( emu 0202) with a mixer...soundforge for a quick clip..
cubase sx3 for full on stuff...
OK, Rob - I see that there is some stuff between the PC and the guitar - thanks for the references. Do you plug it directly in the mixer console or do you use an amp miked ?
I will have to dig the process seriously...
straight into mixer... then thats into usb card...then hi-fi..usually...
or i can mic into mixer from amp...
you can get great little usb cards nowdays really cheap...another good cheapy is this one...
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=behringer+uca202&hl=en&prmd=ivns&resnum=3&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9018756936878490849&sa=X&ei=uw2JTaA5xoWFB-G18boO&ved=0CFYQ8wIwAA#
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 22, 2011, 05:01:27 PM
straight into mixer... then thats into usb card...then hi-fi..usually...
or i can mic into mixer from amp...
you can get great little usb cards nowdays really cheap...another good cheapy is this one...
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=behringer+uca202&hl=en&prmd=ivns&resnum=3&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9018756936878490849&sa=X&ei=uw2JTaA5xoWFB-G18boO&ved=0CFYQ8wIwAA#
Ah ! Yes, Rob - thanks a lot for the tips !
Now I remember : a friend of mine has the same small Behringer USB devices. He uses it with a software called Mixcraft (that I loaded at one time or another). I remember a demo he made in front of me... Convincing.
Good reminder +++ ! I will order one on the spot, and that's it... I will trash my backtrack plus mic, a pure junk device, load Soundforge, clean my mixing console, etc... And find the time to do it all !
Hi, nice build :) Does this layout was posted somewhere before? I'm sure I've built one exactly the same in the past
Quote from: tubelectron on March 22, 2011, 04:50:29 PM
Incidentally, I did not noticed an obvious lack of level or smoothness in transistion on the 500K LIN pot rotation (I will check more accurately, then)... Is that what you mean by useable ? finally, what pot value did you choose (I know that it may have been 350K or originals, but...) ?
In addition, you may see that I used BC109C (Hfe = 560 @ Ib=1µA) after several trials (from 2N1613 to MPSA18). What are the types you have retained ? what Hfe values ?
I used a 320k pot I made with a 1M pot and a resistor. I first tried a 500k pot, but it really cut the sound in between the extremes. The 320k does as well, but to a much lesser extent, and I use a single transistor booster at the end so I can get good levels with intermediate settings. With the fuzz control at either extreme it is very loud, however.
I used BC108s for the fuzz circuit. I have no idea what the actual Hfes are. Pictures and schematic are here: http://www.buildyourownclone.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28505&p=227079&hilit=fuzzrite#p227079 (http://www.buildyourownclone.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28505&p=227079&hilit=fuzzrite#p227079)
That's funny...this thread reminded me of the first pedal I built years ago..a silicon FuzzRite, since Davie Allan was my favorite guitarist.
(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/fuzzrite-si.jpg)
The funny thing is that I built it completely opposite of tubelectron. I used a cigar box and built the circuit on a wooden board with pins...old style.
I didn't hold back on the mods. I can confirm Electron Tornado's 22K suggestion. In addition to the normal controls I put a 20K pot there. As you lower the resistance, the pedal gets nastier and nastier...Well worth it !
I also added two types of gating controls, one with a pot and another with caps on a rotary switch.... and I added another rotary to switch between a few input caps.
If you combine the gating with the 20K "nasty" pot you get a killer stinging bee fuzz ! I used 2 x 2SC1815 with hfe's ~ 150.
Btw, here's The Ventures' "2000 Pound Bee" from a 45 I owned and sold a while ago. Each side is actually a different version of "2000 Pound Bee". This is the better side:
2000 Pound Bee (http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/2000%20Pound%20Bee.mp3)
holy canoli, that is awesome music.
fuzz + lead trough i guess recording tubes driven.
QuoteHi, nice build Does this layout was posted somewhere before? I'm sure I've built one exactly the same in the past
@sinner : I've designed the layout by myself, "in my corner", with maximum compactness in mind and the lateral placement.
But there may be not much ways to be so compact on this simple circuit, so other similar layouts may have been previously issued...
QuoteI used a 320k pot I made with a 1M pot and a resistor. I first tried a 500k pot, but it really cut the sound in between the extremes. The 320k does as well, but to a much lesser extent, and I use a single transistor booster at the end so I can get good levels with intermediate settings. With the fuzz control at either extreme it is very loud, however.
@Electron Tornado : I see. So after reading your explanations, I checked it on the spot : strangely, I do not notice
at all the cut in the middle position of the 500K LIN Fuzz pot : the spread of the gain increase is regular all along the rotation of the pot, with minimum at one side and maximum at the other, like any good standard gain control... Moreover it doesn't need a 3rd transistor as an output booster, the level being way enough in any fuzz setting, way over the dry level... So the influence of the 22K resistor you pointed me to is more important than I suspected : it seems to modify largely the behavior of the FuzzRite !
QuoteThe funny thing is that I built it completely opposite of tubelectron. I used a cigar box and built the circuit on a wooden board with pins...old style.
@LucifersTrip : Ah, Yes ! Your "Havana Box FuzzRite" is a cool wooden oddity stompbox - as funny as nice ! Moreover :
QuoteI didn't hold back on the mods. I can confirm Electron Tornado's 22K suggestion. In addition to the normal controls I put a 20K pot there. As you lower the resistance, the pedal gets nastier and nastier...Well worth it ! I also added two types of gating controls, one with a pot and another with caps on a rotary switch.... and I added another rotary to switch between a few input caps. If you combine the gating with the 20K "nasty" pot you get a killer stinging bee fuzz ! I used 2 x 2SC1815 with hfe's ~ 150.
Here are interesting additions and advices about the tone that can be obtained by the 22K mod, among others. I think I will take the time to re-experiment on my lab board aFuzzRite with your suggestions. Do you notice the same strange effects as described by Electron Tornado on his 22K-fitted FuzzRite ?
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on March 23, 2011, 10:32:14 AM
QuoteI didn't hold back on the mods. I can confirm Electron Tornado's 22K suggestion. In addition to the normal controls I put a 20K pot there. As you lower the resistance, the pedal gets nastier and nastier...Well worth it ! I also added two types of gating controls, one with a pot and another with caps on a rotary switch.... and I added another rotary to switch between a few input caps. If you combine the gating with the 20K "nasty" pot you get a killer stinging bee fuzz ! I used 2 x 2SC1815 with hfe's ~ 150.
Here are interesting additions and advices about the tone that can be obtained by the 22K mod, among others. I think I will take the time to re-experiment on my lab board aFuzzRite with your suggestions. Do you notice the same strange effects as described by Electron Tornado on his 22K-fitted FuzzRite ?
Funny you mention that...When I built it, I was considering removing the fuzz control. I used a 500K linear and it works almost as a volume control. Full left is about half unity with a little less fuzz and then as I turn it right, it slowly adds fuzz & volume until the last 5-10% where there is a big increase in volume and fuzz. I get unity around 50-60% turn.
My friend who owns an original leaves his fuzz at full all the time.
Quote from: tubelectron on March 23, 2011, 10:32:14 AM
@Electron Tornado : I see. So after reading your explanations, I checked it on the spot : strangely, I do not notice at all the cut in the middle position of the 500K LIN Fuzz pot : the spread of the gain increase is regular all along the rotation of the pot, with minimum at one side and maximum at the other, like any good standard gain control... Moreover it doesn't need a 3rd transistor as an output booster, the level being way enough in any fuzz setting, way over the dry level... So the influence of the 22K resistor you pointed me to is more important than I suspected : it seems to modify largely the behavior of the FuzzRite !
The fuzz pot is like a blend control. It controls how much signal you get from either Q1 or Q2. With the fuzz pot set in the middle, it is like having two 250k resistors in line with the signal. I found there were some interesting tones in the middle range of the fuzz pot, but it came with a volume drop, which is why I added the boost stage. With a 320k pot, the boost stage is a bit much and could probably use some extra resistance to tame it down a bit. But if you get a sound you like, that's all that matters.
I tried a pot in place of the 22k resistor to ground as well, but just used the 22k with a switch. If you try a pot, make sure you have a small resistor between it and ground, or when you go to zero ohms, you'll lose signal.
Almost forgot.....
Kudos to Lucifer for the cigar box pedal. The randomness of the knobs is kind of funky.
Aaaaaaaand.........
For the curious - here's a web site with some examples of very early fuzz recordings. A few are pre-"Satisfaction" : http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2007/11/country-fuzz-sp.html (http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2007/11/country-fuzz-sp.html)
Quote from: Electron Tornado on March 23, 2011, 10:06:04 PM
Almost forgot.....
Kudos to Lucifer for the cigar box pedal. The randomness of the knobs is kind of funky.
That's also funny...It might seem like that at first glance, but here's the logic:
The volume is isolated in the lower right corner since it's rarely touched...100% pinned. Above that is the gating section. The switch turns on the resistance gate, which is controlled by the pot immediately to it's right. The one right next to that is the cap gate. The sole left one is a rotary switch for the input cap. I build everything from schematics left to right so the input is far left. The 2 on top shape the tone, fuzz and the nasty 20k.
Quote
Aaaaaaaand.........
For the curious - here's a web site with some examples of very early fuzz recordings. A few are pre-"Satisfaction" : http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2007/11/country-fuzz-sp.html (http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2007/11/country-fuzz-sp.html)
Excellent...thanx...I always love to hear more vintage fuzz cuts. There's a few I haven't heard. Though, there is one from 1963 that is conspicuously missing...from another 45 I sold a while ago:
Jimmy Gordon - "Buzzz" (http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/Buzzz.mp3)
have a blast
Thanks guys for the fuzz links ! Nobody here in France seems to know anything else than grunge or Hendrix fuzzes...
A+!
Thanks for the awesome music links!
My favourite is Willis Brothers - Soft Shoulders, Dangerous Curves (1966) Starday. The first few seconds of this record sound exactly like a scorching garage punk combo at work.
I will search how to duplicate that fuzz sound +++
Here is the direct link to the tune :
http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/GG/Willis_Brothers_-_Soft_Shoulders_Dangerous_Curves.mp3 (http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/GG/Willis_Brothers_-_Soft_Shoulders_Dangerous_Curves.mp3)
Anyone has an idea about the kind of fuzz which would have been used here by the Willis Brothers ?
-----------------------------
Oh, I remember now something in France worth to hear about 60's fuzz : Pierre Henry / Messe pour le Temps Présent / "Jericho Jerk".
I'll try to find a link and post it...
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on March 25, 2011, 05:21:34 AM
Oh, I remember now something in France worth to hear about 60's fuzz : Pierre Henry / Messe pour le Temps Présent / "Jericho Jerk".
I'll try to find a link and post it...
A+!
The most famous Pierre Henry is Les Yper-Sound "Psyché Rock".
That is the one with the fuzz & electronics...here it is from another 45. très bon!
Psyché Rock (http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/PsycheRock.mp3)
Ah, yes, LuciferTrips !
I may have remembered the wrong title - I have the original Pierre Henry's vinyl LP, but not here to confirm... It's may be Psyché Rock too - I know that there is several similar fuzzy tunes... So here's my confusion.
Nonetheless very good fuzz oldies !
A+!
I think that there the description of the instruments used for the tunes on the litterature on the sleeve of the record - I'll dig it and come back.
No idea about the fuzz used by the Willis Brothers ?
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on March 25, 2011, 06:14:08 AM
Ah, yes, LuciferTrips !
I may have remembered the wrong title - I have the original Pierre Henry's vinyl LP, but not here to confirm... It's may be Psyché Rock too - I know that there is several similar fuzzy tunes... So here's my confusion.
Nonetheless very good fuzz oldies !
A+!
Messe pour le Temps Présent & Jericho Jerk don't have any fuzz, but they both have cool electronics. Maybe something else on the album?
Quote from: tubelectron on March 25, 2011, 06:19:17 AM
No idea about the fuzz used by the Willis Brothers ?
A+!
No idea! The funny thing is that I actually collected the Willis Brothers, but country musicians rarely list any equipment on the record like rock musicians....and they weren't popular enough to have many videos, tho I haven't checked YouTube recently. They rarely used fuzz, tho. Kay Adams (on the same label as Pink Floyd) had the most fuzz on her album out of any country artist I own !
My favorite fuzz album is still Davie Allan & The Arrows "Cycle-Delic Sounds" . That is the album that changed my music listening forever....and it's a Mosrite Fuzzrite!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgXHchnQtt8
(http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/f2/bd/000fbdf2_medium.jpeg)
QuoteMesse pour le Temps Présent & Jericho Jerk don't have any fuzz, but they both have cool electronics. Maybe something else on the album?
LuciferTrips, my memory is unreliable about that record : I will check it this evening when I'll be back home, and give you the answer here.
A+!
QuoteMy favorite fuzz album is still Davie Allan & The Arrows "Cycle-Delic Sounds" . That is the album that changed my music listening forever....and it's a Mosrite Fuzzrite!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgXHchnQtt8
Ha ! To listen to that you need to smoke drugs... This "metalwork portative tools" sound is very good - done by a FuzzRite... With probably the 22K on.
And yes, the title from Pierre Henry's Album is "Psyché Rock", thanks to the link you've inserted as a sound reminder.
A+!
Thank you fellows for the awesome fuzz-ed out tunes and great mod suggestions. Gotta go try the 22k resistor now. Wanna sound like Davie Allen!!!
Inspirational build there!
Have to try that! Bump for the FUZZZZ!
I've done some more playing with this circuit and I have it more where I want it. The 22k resistor makes it nasty thin gritty and yes like a pound a bees! I personally like it without the 22k as well because it adds more fullness to the circuit. But the 22k gets that davie allan sound pretty spot on.
I originally built mine to Dragonfly's layout with the 10k resistors on the collectors. It was so hissy and nasty that I changed it to the 470k like you have listed on your schem tubeelectron. That did clean it up but I've since found that if I add a 100 ohm resistor from emitter to ground it should clean up the hiss with the 10k resistors in place. So I think I wanna build another trying the 10k resistors again since I heard that version sounds more like the germanium version. I've also since found the gusrite version and green bomb fuzz which I gotta give a go too! Thanks for all the info tubeelectron, lucifersTrip! I'm curious how you added those gating controls! Both of your builds look fantastic!
Quote from: bigmufffuzzwizz on June 20, 2011, 01:28:00 PM
Thanks for all the info tubeelectron, lucifersTrip! I'm curious how you added those gating controls! Both of your builds look fantastic!
(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/fuzzritegate.jpg)
Hi !
Some news about the Mosrite FuzzRite Ventures 1590A 2000 Pound Bee - tubelectron version...
I (finally) made a trial with the so famous 22K resistor we spoke about some posts ago, in order to have a nastier sound : surprisingly, it didn't worked as good as you guys described it, except for the dip in volume in the middle fuzz pot setting... I tweaked a bit, but deceptively nothing was better than without the 22k, so I went back.
I added a 150K in serie between the wiper of the fuzz pot and the top of the volume pot, in order to have the 50/50 setting giving roughly the same level as the dry signal.
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on June 29, 2011, 05:02:32 PM
Hi !
Some news about the Mosrite FuzzRite Ventures 1590A 2000 Pound Bee - tubelectron version...
I (finally) made a trial with the so famous 22K resistor we spoke about some posts ago, in order to have a nastier sound : surprisingly, it didn't worked as good as you guys described it, except for the dip in volume in the middle fuzz pot setting... I tweaked a bit, but deceptively nothing was better than without the 22k, so I went back.
a quick guess would be because you used transistors with much too high gains...nearly 600 hfe while most use 100 - 200.
i've built the silicon version, ge version and numerous variants and I never used any hfe's higher than the mid 200's
Quotea quick guess would be because you used transistors with much too high gains...nearly 600 hfe while most use 100 - 200.
i've built the silicon version, ge version and numerous variants and I never used any hfe's higher than the mid 200's
That's right, LucifersTrip : I used BC109C with Hfe circa 560 for Ib=10µA, while the original TZ82 Si Qs are specified Hfe 40 to 500 for Ib=10mA. I tried lower Hfe Qs like 2N1613, 2N1893 (Hfe 30-40), 2N2219 (Hfe 76), BC237A, 2N3904, BC107 (Hfe 130-150) and even MPSA18 (Hfe 850-900) and draw the conclusion that lower Hfe = Less sustain and less fizz, even if each model of transistor sounded sometimes very differently in terms of breakup and harmonics.
The best compromise was the BC109C : raunchy but no fizzy and with sustain. BUT AT THAT TIME I didn't had the idea to try the 22K resistor, unfortunately ! So I should test it on breadboard to see if it works better with lower Hfe... After all, in my Sbrodj Fuzz (FY-2 variant), I use 2N3137 which are Hfe 50 while the original 2SC536 are specified Hfe 120, and the sound is as nasty as possible, whereas hi Hfe Qs didn't worked as well.
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on June 30, 2011, 02:44:21 PM
Quotea quick guess would be because you used transistors with much too high gains...nearly 600 hfe while most use 100 - 200.
i've built the silicon version, ge version and numerous variants and I never used any hfe's higher than the mid 200's
That's right, LucifersTrip : I used BC109C with Hfe circa 560 for Ib=10µA, while the original TZ82 Si Qs are specified Hfe 40 to 500 for Ib=10mA. I tried lower Hfe Qs like 2N1613, 2N1893 (Hfe 30-40), 2N2219 (Hfe 76), BC237A, 2N3904, BC107 (Hfe 130-150) and even MPSA18 (Hfe 850-900) and draw the conclusion that lower Hfe = Less sustain and less fizz, even if each model of transistor sounded sometimes very differently in terms of breakup and harmonics.
The best compromise was the BC109C : raunchy but no fizzy and with sustain. BUT AT THAT TIME I didn't had the idea to try the 22K resistor, unfortunately ! So I should test it on breadboard to see if it works better with lower Hfe... After all, in my Sbrodj Fuzz (FY-2 variant), I use 2N3137 which are Hfe 50 while the original 2SC536 are specified Hfe 120, and the sound is as nasty as possible, whereas hi Hfe Qs didn't worked as well.
A+!
you should also consider mixing the hfe's. at least one of the Fuzz Rite variants (Orpheum) sounds killer with a 100-150 Q1 and a much lower (30-50) Q2. Though, I have found with most of the Fuzz Rite variants I've tried, when hfe's are close to equal, using lower gains gives a more dirty sound with lesser sustain, middle gains gives the best fuzz with more sustain and higher gains give more metallic sound with a harsher treble but less fuzz and just a little more sustain.
Since there are endless possibilities with mixing hfe's and mixing silicons & ge's, you will definitely find many exceptions (like your Sbrodj with hfe 50...surprising)
one of my next projects was to try a germanium FY-2
Nice built ! I built 3 different FuzzRites about 7 years ago and should go dig them out of a box in the basement. My favorite build ended up being the germanium circuit from a schematic I found on a Japanese website. If I remember correctly, this is the one that gave me the the most buzz for my dollar.
Quote from: 8mileshigh on June 30, 2011, 05:56:13 PM
Nice built ! I built 3 different FuzzRites about 7 years ago and should go dig them out of a box in the basement. My favorite build ended up being the germanium circuit from a schematic I found on a Japanese website. If I remember correctly, this is the one that gave me the the most buzz for my dollar.
exactly....all the ge's I've built had more fuzz...if you ever find that schematic from the Japanese site, please post it
Thanks LucifersTrip,
Do you have the schematic of the Ge version of the FY-2 ? If not, here it is. I had in hands a Ge FY-2 many many years ago and I remember that the schematic was printed on a label inside, exactly like this one :
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/488417FY2shineifuzzoriginalschem.jpg)
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on July 01, 2011, 02:50:43 AM
Thanks LucifersTrip,
Do you have the schematic of the Ge version of the FY-2 ? If not, here it is. I had in hands a Ge FY-2 many many years ago and I remember that the schematic was printed on a label inside, exactly like this one :
(made larger so everyone can build it easier)
(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/shin-ei-ge.jpg)
A+!
Thanx....Great! I didn't think a ge version existed and I didn't expect the scoop to be omitted...that's what makes the FY-2 a bit different. I was actually planning to drop ge's in the silicon version and adjust it till I got it to sound cool.
Now I will consider building the ge version and adding a scoop.
This guy did did what I was going to do...drop ge's in the si version:
http://gumballelectronics.blogspot.com/2009/08/this-is-old-60s-shin-ei-fuzz-pedal.html
...and on this subject, have you seen this chart...funny:
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6874&g2_serialNumber=2
QuoteI was actually planning to drop ge's in the silicon version and adjust it till I got it to sound cool.
Why not ? I would be interested (since I am more qualified to adjust tubes than Qs...) to see the result, as the old schem I provided doesn't have the scoop filter and so must behave differently (but may be very good too).
In my Ge fuzz trials (FFAC128NOS, TBmkIIpro, TB3knobs), I always found a kind of smoother sound than with Si : the DZZZZZZZZZZZ is replaced by GRRRRRRRRRR, if you see what I mean.
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on July 01, 2011, 02:50:43 AM
Thanks LucifersTrip,
Do you have the schematic of the Ge version of the FY-2 ? If not, here it is. I had in hands a Ge FY-2 many many years ago and I remember that the schematic was printed on a label inside, exactly like this one :
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/488417FY2shineifuzzoriginalschem.jpg)
A+!
Woah, that schematic deserves it's own thread. I haven't seen that schem and I love the FY2. Is there anyway you could scan the schematic? There's some spots that I can't make out. That's exciting!
Right on! Thanks for posting that FY-2 schematic, tubelectron!!!
Is that a PNP Germanium version of the FY2?
tubelectron...or anyone, please check to make sure I didn't make any errors. I quickly "edited" the FY-2 silicon schematic into the germanium version...
(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/fy-2-ge.jpg)
Hey LucifersTrip, Q2's emitter resistor looks like it could be 1K5. I can't tell if that is a shadow or a period.
Otherwise it looks good. Thanks for drawing that up and posting it.
Quote from: jrod on July 01, 2011, 11:55:36 PM
Hey LucifersTrip, Q2's emitter resistor looks like it could be 1K5. I can't tell if that is a shadow or a period.
Otherwise it looks good. Thanks for drawing that up and posting it.
hahah...yeah, I saw that too...I think it's just a shadow or mark on that old paper...maybe tubelectron can see it better.
I'll try this one soon
Hi LuciferTrips and jrod,
At that time, I also traced the Ge FY-2 from the original I had in hands :
(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/307044FY2oldGEversion.jpg)
(You even have the parameters of the 2SB56 I found on my databooks)
So as you can see, your tracing is correct, and you guessed right : Q2 emitter resistor is 1K5, not 15K.
I never took the time to test that schematic... I should have !!!
I think it would sound more like an overdrive than a fuzz, which could be also very interesting.
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on July 02, 2011, 04:03:57 AM
Hi LuciferTrips and jrod,
At that time, I also traced the Ge FY-2 from the original I had in hands :
(You even have the parameters of the 2SB56 I found on my databooks)
So as you can see, your tracing is correct, and you guessed right : Q2 emitter resistor is 1K5, not 15K.
I never took the time to test that schematic... I should have !!!
I think it would sound more like an overdrive than a fuzz, which could be also very interesting.
A+!
That's great! I made the 1.5k correction to the schematic...Yes, on the datasheet online it shows 2SB56 hfe 80. Did you actually measure the hfe's of the original you had in hand?
thanx again...I'll try this one next
Thanks, Tubelectron!!!
I am going to get this breadboarded very soon!
That is so awesome guys! One of my favorite fuzzes!
QuoteThat's great! I made the 1.5k correction to the schematic...Yes, on the datasheet online it shows 2SB56 hfe 80. Did you actually measure the hfe's of the original you had in hand?
Unfortunately no... It wasn't mine and I lacked time to do it ! :icon_confused:
But let me know the result if you made a trial ! I am very busy these times on tube amps, but I'll try to get on it ASAP...
A+!
Quote from: tubelectron on July 02, 2011, 05:25:10 PM
QuoteThat's great! I made the 1.5k correction to the schematic...Yes, on the datasheet online it shows 2SB56 hfe 80. Did you actually measure the hfe's of the original you had in hand?
Unfortunately no... It wasn't mine and I lacked time to do it ! :icon_confused:
But let me know the result if you made a trial ! I am very busy these times on tube amps, but I'll try to get on it ASAP...
A+!
Ok...I breadboarded with this schematic:
(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/fy-2-ge.jpg)
I used 2 transistors with approx 80 - 85 hfe with very low leakage.
It worked right off and actually is a very nasty fuzz! There is one problem...the 50K volume.
When I turned the volume from 0 to 10%, there was a much larger increase than expected...it was already at unity by 20% or 30%. Also, as the volume increased, the bass increased. By the time you get to 100%, it's insanely loud and totally bassy & muffled. It's similar to what would happen if you remove diodes from a diode-clipping fuzz...you'd be left with way too much volume and a big muddy mess.
I slowly decreased the volume pot. When I used a 10K it was pretty cool. The volume increases a little too fast and the last 30% was too bassy and muddy....but a 5K did the trick! ...a perfect, steady increase in volume and only little bass increase as you go. I almost want to think that the schematic has an error.
One more note...you may want to use a fuzz pot up to around 30 or 40K. I get a max fuzz at around that point. In the last 10 - 20K, the fuzz will start to gate....and go downhill.
So, all in all a pretty loud, nasty fuzz. Now, I'll start experimenting with different transistors to see if I can get a better tone.
The voltages (e,b,c):
Q1: -.15, -.36, -.67
Q2: -.46, -.67, -2.40
How does it sound compared to the more common FY2? Also, do you guys want to start a new thread with this schematic? I'm sure there are many interested parties that would love to get a taste of the germanium FY2...
Quote from: glops on July 05, 2011, 06:54:05 PM
How does it sound compared to the more common FY2?
with the 5K vol pot it's just as nasty, but much louder...no 3rd boost stage necessary....but some of the harshness of the high end is gone because of the ge. I haven't even close to decided on the final transistors, so I have no idea how good it can get.
I'm also not sure if -2.4 on Q2's collector is where it should be.
Quote
Also, do you guys want to start a new thread with this schematic? I'm sure there are many interested parties that would love to get a taste of the germanium FY2...
...already did that.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=92533.0