So I've been trying to cut my vero and perfboard with a utility knife and an exacto, but I just can't get it cut. Maybe the board I bought is thicker than usual (came from tayda and another low cost place) I can mark it, but it's difficult to get it all on the same line even when using a metal straight edge.
Is a vise nescessary for cutting this stuff? If not, do I just need a yet better knife- if so, anyone have a particular model/size?
Should I just get a rotary tool like a dremel and a vise? I plan on doing a lot of perf and vero in the future as I do enjoy using it a lot, is the dremel an easier way to cut the stuff more accurately?
On another dremel note... I currently use a hand drill and a unibit for drilling enclosures- i've seen these low priced drill press stations for dremel rotary tools. Is a dremel powerful enough to drill enclosures- if so what speed do I need? is there a unit bit piece for them? If not, do they even make drill bits big enough for enclosure drilling? Are any of these cheaper dremels worth a damn? Like the $20-35 ones- I've seen em with variable speeds up to 30,000rpm and some bits and colletts for $30. I really dont have $80 for a named brand one, so looking for someone in a similar situation that's had good luck with a low cost one.
Any input is appreciated!
use a small drill bit between your fingers. a few twists over the holes along the line you wish to cut on both sides of the stripboard and it should snap quite easily. you don't need to go all the way through nor do every hole, just a few twists every other hole or so. it's a quick and easy process.
avoid cheap rotary tools. maybe look into getting or making drill press jig for your hand drill.
I use a hacksaw and then file it smooth. Creates a lot of dist though, which is supposedly very bad for you. I'm only cutting it once a month though, if that so i'm not really worried. I think GMO food and air pollution will kill me before that.
I use tin snips for pcbs. Might try sissors on the perf, if that doesn't work the snips will. Never tried to cut vero but guessing snips would work as well. Best thing is no dust. I used to use a dremel but very messy and bad for lungs.
One issue with standard Dremel kits from most retailers is that they come with numerous accessories that are not essential to stompbox DIY. By the time you buy bits, it winds up costing much more. I offer a Dremel variable-speed tool With a bunch of selected accessories and drill bits for less than $70.00.
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=852
The cutoff wheels slice easily through epoxy-glass, only please wear goggles and a face-mask when using!
Regards
SD
Quote from: fpaul on March 04, 2012, 10:24:09 PM
I use tin snips for pcbs. Might try sissors on the perf, if that doesn't work the snips will. Never tried to cut vero but guessing snips would work as well. Best thing is no dust. I used to use a dremel but very messy and bad for lungs.
I use a kitchen scissors , those buggers have lots of power ! Get those long ones .
Quote from: claytushaywood on March 04, 2012, 09:25:47 PM
Should I just get a rotary tool like a dremel and a vise? I plan on doing a lot of perf and vero in the future as I do enjoy using it a lot, is the dremel an easier way to cut the stuff more accurately?
I use a tool like this for the dremel, with finer teeth...and it cuts through very easily
(http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/20059218/Images/SS40BMgallery.jpg)
Quote
On another dremel note... I currently use a hand drill and a unibit for drilling enclosures- i've seen these low priced drill press stations for dremel rotary tools. Is a dremel powerful enough to drill enclosures- if so what speed do I need?
I believe a hand drill is better for enclosures. you want something more powerful that spins slower for metal. I use dremels to drill wood & plastic mainly.
I clamp vero to a bit of wood in a vice so it's horizontal and cut along the holes with a junior hacksaw. You have to take the last bit of the cut gently (supporting the free piece that you're cutting off), otherwise you might chip a corner, but it's quick. Then I just clean up the edges with a file. Like runmikeyrun says it does make a tiny bit of (noxious) dust, but it doesn't chuck it about as badly as a power tool might. [/obligatory disclaimer mode]
+1 junior hacksaw, file...vero/pcb....i have a small vise outside for doing this...its also handy for cutting pot shafts.....i got sick of the dust too..... :)
Certainly for veroboard, it's possible to snap where required over the edge of a square edged table - but not when your wife is looking ;)
I always snap vero and perf, then sand to make it look nice.
I use a small bit to cut traces on vero. :D
Hacksaw/fretsaw/coping saw seems to be the most effective option for me. I don't know what kind of boards you guys are using to be able to do with an exacto knife (though it does work if you score it over the entire length of the board and then snap it off) or scissors
A vise helps too, but you can get away with some creative clamping
I use an old M&S kitchen knife, one of those with lots of small pointy teeth, using something rigid to guide it with. Very easy to snap after a little sawing, with very little effort.
I make my cutting line with a stanley knife. Then I use a pincer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincer_%28tool%29) to snap it off. The couple of times I used this method it works perfectly.
+1 for dremel. Although I use the heavy duty abrasive cutoff wheels instead of the 'saw' wheel above.
CHAD
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vr0EOpBWOrg/To3DHA7ChhI/AAAAAAAAAog/v6TbGXZ84wM/s1600/600full-the-texas-chainsaw-massacre-screenshot.jpg)
.....or six scores on each side with a Stanley blade, then snap over the edge of the table.
a utility knife with the proper THICK blades to score the line 2x on each side , then snap on a square table edge with a flat iron file placed on the top line .
+1 on the cheap dremel , although i got an 8 dollar kit , like they sell on harbor freight , then a 10 dollar used craftsman 60,000 rpm rotary unit . i use all the acessorys from the cheapo kit in the craftsman , i did have to buy the bushings/ fittings seperate for 5 though .
menards had a 15 dollar set of unibits , for drilling metal i use a syringe with oil in it , this has reduced broken drill bits to almost none . i use motor oil . just a small amount on the bit , same for when i use the uni-bit .
another contraption that is GREAT is this hobby grinder i built . its a 14.5 volt charger / batt that feeds an old cordless drill screwed down to the base . all my old cordless tools plug into its outlet i made on the front , even the dustbuster . so when the tools battery dies i cut in a cable and they run off the batt that is always being charged . even a 3.6 volt screwdriver will run off 14.5 , it screams too ! the 7 volt dustbuster actually dusts bust now . the battery hasnt died in YEARS . i can run 3 cordless drills , a predrill bit , a spade bit a phillips when wood working it save so much time and battery use .
i am sure all of this is wrong .
I got to scoring then wire snipping about 1/4'' in from the edge of the board.
Since the board is super rigid and won't expand or stretch, the wire cutter teeth pry the two pieces apart if aligned and pointing directly at the score line.
A little bit of 'bend pressure' helps, I have scored and just used bending action, but figured the copper traces see more stress/stretching and are more likely to loosen from the harder flexing [depends on how well scored or if drilling some of the holes larger...
A hacksaw for coarsely sizing then a diamond cutoff wheel in a Dremel for fine trimming after etching. The diamond wheel slices through the pcb board like there's nothing there! A vice is nice but not necessary, a pivoting drillpress vice is ideal but a single 'c' clamp or similar can easily do the job of stabilizing the board you're working on.
dave
fine-toothed hacksaw says my $.02...much faster than score and snap.
+1 for dremel with diamond cutting wheels, it just cuts, then you can clean the edges with the same tool, and cut pot shafts. Get other diamond bits and you can adjust any hole you drill (outside the bedroom).
I've never had a problem just scoring with a blade of some sort and then snaping. Just like drywall!
Quote from: DavenPaget on March 04, 2012, 11:41:24 PM
Quote from: fpaul on March 04, 2012, 10:24:09 PM
I use tin snips for pcbs. Might try sissors on the perf, if that doesn't work the snips will. Never tried to cut vero but guessing snips would work as well. Best thing is no dust. I used to use a dremel but very messy and bad for lungs.
I use a kitchen scissors , those buggers have lots of power ! Get those long ones .
I like the idea of scissors. seems easiest for me, as I am lacking a vise or mask or goggles. I definitely dont want to dremel without a vise. Do you just cut the board with the scissors or do you have to score it at all? Does this method require file or sanding for smoothing edges? It seems like just cutting it with scissors would be prone to cracking the board?
I'm hardcore, I dremel without a vise 8)
Quote from: Perrow on March 06, 2012, 03:34:29 PM
I'm hardcore, I dremel without a vise 8)
Me too; barehanded, without goggles :o...(just like when using the weedeater)
Scorned,
CHAD
Quote from: Bill Mountain on March 05, 2012, 02:41:49 PM
I've never had a problem just scoring with a blade of some sort and then snaping. Just like drywall!
This, score along the holes (think the perforations on a sheet of postage stamps) and snap.
eat 3 sausages, have a cup of tea, shout at a cat, then attack the vero with a chainsaw......then more tea...done! :icon_twisted:
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 07, 2012, 05:21:56 AM
eat 3 sausages, have a cup of tea, shout at a cat, then attack the vero with a chainsaw......then more tea...done! :icon_twisted:
I shoot laser beams from my eyes and it cuts like butter every time!! :icon_evil: Just don't look away from the board when you are cutting :icon_twisted: Then when I'm feelin lazy I just use heavy duty meat cutting scissors... both work real good :icon_mrgreen: I'll give the 3 sausages chainsaw approach a try, sounds like a wiener to me!
What has worked for me is, lay a metal ruler along the cut, if possible clamp the whole thing, then with a blade start marking along using the ruler as support for the blade. But the trick is to try to make a "V" cut, by tilting the blade to one side and then to the other on each pass. After you have deepened the cut to about half the vero´s depth, just snap it with a swift movement. If the cut is not deep enough it may snap outside the mark.
Careful with the blades. Always make the "strokes" away from you, never towards you. Don´t use fingers to hold the ruler/vero, although I´ve been guilty of doing that.
I eventually got a Dremel.
Quote from: Morocotopo on March 08, 2012, 10:59:07 AM
What has worked for me is, lay a metal ruler along the cut, if possible clamp the whole thing, then with a blade start marking along using the ruler as support for the blade. But the trick is to try to make a "V" cut, by tilting the blade to one side and then to the other on each pass. After you have deepened the cut to about half the vero´s depth, just snap it with a swift movement. If the cut is not deep enough it may snap outside the mark.
Careful with the blades. Always make the "strokes" away from you, never towards you. Don´t use fingers to hold the ruler/vero, although I´ve been guilty of doing that.
I eventually got a Dremel.
So sorry, but...
Is there any nation with a Metal Ruler? You know, the guy who proclaims growling drop B tunings and wicked fast double kick throughout the land. Oh, I'd take a holiday to the land of the Metal Ruler...
CHAD
Quote from: DiscoVlad on March 06, 2012, 09:13:00 PM
Quote from: Bill Mountain on March 05, 2012, 02:41:49 PM
I've never had a problem just scoring with a blade of some sort and then snaping. Just like drywall!
This, score along the holes (think the perforations on a sheet of postage stamps) and snap.
This is how I do it and I think it's the easiest way.
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 07, 2012, 05:21:56 AM
eat 3 sausages, have a cup of tea, shout at a cat, then attack the vero with a chainsaw......then more tea...done! :icon_twisted:
+1 thats what i do too...i totally concur :icon_mrgreen:
A brit that actually agrees with himself, I thought I'd seen it all ;)
Quote from: claytushaywood on March 06, 2012, 02:59:41 PM
I like the idea of scissors. seems easiest for me, as I am lacking a vise or mask or goggles. I definitely dont want to dremel without a vise. Do you just cut the board with the scissors or do you have to score it at all? Does this method require file or sanding for smoothing edges? It seems like just cutting it with scissors would be prone to cracking the board?
I tried scoring and my blade @#$%ed me up in the process , then i used my old friend the meat cutting scissors or my side cutting plier for the smaller boards .
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-mighty-mite-table-saw-93211.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=F3730F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA
(http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-mighty-mite-table-saw-93211.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=F3730F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA)
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_13744.jpg)
works well on PCB's also
Get a vice. How can you live without one?
Quote from: garcho on March 11, 2012, 12:48:02 AM
Get a vice. How can you live without one?
"Get wise, get a vise" :)
What makes you think I don't have one? I just don't use it.
Quote from: Perrow on March 09, 2012, 11:34:12 AM
A brit that actually agrees with himself, I thought I'd seen it all ;)
+1 you need to get out more then... ;D
old thread, but relevant... :)
i'm now sick of dust particles getting everywhere...
i'm looking for an easier, neater,cleaner,quicker way to cut up fr4 board...cutting pcb board is the one thing i dislike in diy ..
the scissor thing / tin snips sounds cool, but doesn't it crack, and fracture the edges?...especially when cutting from one side of ''A4 size clad'' to the other (long lengths)
any other new suggestions...
Hey mate, i use this for vero. It is a welding clamp, but it holds the vero in place and gives you a straight line to cut along on both sides of the board. Just score it numerous times both sides and gently snap. I've never had board break on me and it's a lot safer than the old metal ruler, as the board is clamped in place. All the best, Matt.
http://imageshack.com/a/img705/7933/023vg.jpg
cheers, i'm cutting pcb copper clad board...
Aaahhh, i should have read your post a bit better, good for vero though ;)
Recent posts here got me googling "cutting pcb" and one result was an instructable about a cutting rig, but the most interesting thing about it was one of the comments.
QuoteNice rig! I've been cutting (one-sided) pcb's with scissors after heating them a little with a hot air gun or just holding them at a distance over the kitchen range fire. Phenolic can be cut this way as easy as paper. FR-4 is a bit more resistant.
That sounds like something one could try.
Link (http://www.instructables.com/id/PCB-cutter-tool/step9/and-try-the-new-tool/)
mad idea, i might try that with a bit of scrap board...
might unglue the copper maybe?..hmmm...cheers pelle. 8)
Quote from: deadastronaut on January 28, 2014, 10:03:47 AM
mad idea, i might try that with a bit of scrap board...
might unglue the copper maybe?..hmmm...cheers pelle. 8)
I suspect the result will depend on finding the right temperature to heat the board to, which will probably differ between makes of boards :(
I'm thinking that heating them in the oven would be the safest way to do it as you have far better control over the temperature. But perhaps a hairdryer is warm enough and yet not too hot.
I score the lines I want to cut then I use one of the cutters that use a utility blade. Like the one below
(http://toolguyd.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kobalt-Triple-Cut-Small-Cutter-Replacement-Blade-Compartment.jpg)
It cuts like butter if you score it properly, if its not deep enough or not scored at all it cuts like crap, and is very difficult to do.
^ nice, but how does it get through a long piece?..
Strange.
I just run a box cutter along the holes I want a few time then snap. The holes nearly guide the blade in a straight line.
^That's what I do too. I didn't read the entire thread, but I'd imagine the OP is scoring between the pads. Score across the pads (I only do it one side), line it up with the side of the table, hold it down and push on one side to snap it off.
Quote from: runmikeyrun on March 04, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
GMO food
Won't kill you. Air pollution might?
i'm using FR4 copper clad pcb board..not that nasty vero.. ;)
i think i may just have to bite the dusty bullet and go with a mini table saw...at least i'll get straight neat cuts.
I just use a big ass miter saw and it works great. 2 seconds per cut.
Quote from: Jdansti on January 28, 2014, 07:01:59 PM
I just use a big ass miter saw and it works great. 2 seconds per cut.
+1. It sounds like overkill, but it works perfectly. I wear a respirator when I do it, though. And for pete's sake, be careful with your fingers.
I only work with pad-per-hole perfboards. I cut them using an x-acto knife and a ruler. Takes SEVERAL minutes but they usually come out perfect. Sometimes you can't even tell the board was cut.
Patience is key.
Quote from: deadastronaut on January 28, 2014, 05:35:35 PM
^ nice, but how does it get through a long piece?..
That's the tricky part. If you score it well it will actually follow the line, but sometimes I have to slide the cutter up and continue. The more common problem is when its a short run, as the pressure can cause it to cut/split the board more than you expect. So you can't just squeeze it and have it cut only the scored lined.
It took a little getting used to, but I like it the best from the other methods I've used. I've don't something like 20 boards now this way, and they've come out great. The only part that's a mess is the wiring, but I've gotten better at making everything nice and neat.
I'll post some pics of the boards I've done using this method.
I remember hearing a suggestion to use a big guillotine paper cutter for circuit boards - anyone tried that? Seems like it would work fine, like a giant scissors.
I use snips to cut sheet metal and pcb's they cut vero easy peasy. No dust you can get a nice straight line too.
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/snips.html
That 3 pack for 9 bucks is a good deal. I just picked up a set just like it at a local hardware store for about the same price. They are serrated a little bit but it helps hold the material in place while cutting. And they cut through everything as easy as a piece of printer paper. You will probably use the straight cut most the time but the left and right cut will come in handy some day when you need to cut around a corner in some large sheet metal or something.
Just like scissors keep your fingers out of the blades go slow and be safe.
We've all seen your nice tiled bathroom, Rob ...
(http://static02.mediaite.com/geekosystem/uploads/2011/08/as_1-550x455.jpg) How about trying tile-cutters to score and snap the board?
Quote from: tubegeek on January 29, 2014, 01:40:12 AM
I remember hearing a suggestion to use a big guillotine paper cutter for circuit boards - anyone tried that? Seems like it would work fine, like a giant scissors.
Yeah, seen some vendors selling exactly that - specifically for cutting up PCB stock.
yeah those tiles were a pita with my suit on, i don't know why i installed a toilet either, i just do it in my suit anyway... ;D
...hmmm...all good methods/ideas..
i have a brand new mitre saw actually, but its in mrs astro's daughters storage cupboard...i'll have to nick it back and try that ..cheers john.
as i have a minicraft drill, i thought i'd bid on the minicraft mini table saw...looks cool , but obviously dusty still.....but straight edges all round yay!.. ::)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=minicraft+table+saw&safe=off&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4sToUp2lDeae7AaSsIDgCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1887&bih=897#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=BQ4zdSEeXxdJcM%253A%3Br-LP_JCoRIe1MM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.ebayimg.com%252Ft%252FMinicraft-Circular-Saw-Table-%252F00%252Fs%252FNzY4WDEwMjQ%25253D%252Fz%252FOLoAAMXQhuVRV28F%252F%252524T2eC16dHJF8E9nnC8Hy1BRV28EtCew~~60_35.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fitm%252FMinicraft-Circular-Saw-Table-%252F290889816918%3B300%3B225
Over the past week I discovered I cut much straighter with the hacksaw if I take the time to get out a square and draw myself a line first. Who knew? :icon_razz:
Quote from: Seljer on January 29, 2014, 05:29:30 AM
Over the past week I discovered I cut much straighter with the hacksaw if I take the time to get out a square and draw myself a line first. Who knew? :icon_razz:
No WAY!
Quote from: me
Yeah, seen some vendors selling exactly that - specifically for cutting up PCB stock.
I think I'll withdraw this daft suggestion, Rob. Just seen the price of PCB shears at Rapid. Hundreds of quids... :o
Broke my last hacksaw blade so in desperation used a 2 inch masonry chisel and a club hammer. One big hit and the board parted but spent the next half hour searching for the good bit which had shot across the garage and hidden itself in all the rubbish. Nice cut though
^ +1 for style though...
@marc: yeah pricey as ..... :icon_eek:
Mmm. Replacement blade = £135. :o Just don't get Kevin to whack it with his club hammer! :icon_wink:
(BTW, @Kevin: YouTube link?? ;D )
£135...wtf..:icon_eek:
even the pcb guillotines are a joke price wise too...
i'll bid on my little table saw i think...sod it.
cutting the board is the only part of diy i despise...so anything that helps to cut a few boards easily i'm up for... 8)
just had an :icon_idea:
laminate floor cutter?..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3NMRo8eTlU
http://www2.westfalia.net/shops/around_the_home/renovating_and_redecorating/floorings/tools_and_accessories/1239371-laminate_cutter.htm?gclid=CNyfgd2jtbwCFfPItAod7gcAgQ&art_nr=826428
certainly cheaper than those guillotines... :)
tile cutter?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_OAovANaO4
I just tried the score and snap technique and it worked pretty well.
A $10 pair of tin snips that you can get at any well equipped hardware store will do a good job.
i just use a stanley/utility knife and cut all the way through vero in a few cuts. i used so score & snap, but i found that could be problematic sometimes, with the copper strips tearing in unwanted ways. i find it much easier to cut from the top (non-copper) side. i press down hard with my index finger as close to the blade as safely possible, so i'm applying force but staying in control. whenever i screw up, it's because i rushed it. i prefer not to sand the edges, and just lightly pick away any imperfections with my fingers, but sanding has been okay the few times i've tried it. a fresh blade can help a lot. i always alter layouts so there's a bit more leeway - i don't like having all the offboard wiring in the very last holes from the edge and it gives me extra peace of mind when cutting.
i've never really given much thought to how others go about this - it's interesting to hear everyone else's approach.
Quote from: deadastronaut on February 05, 2014, 10:18:58 AM
laminate floor cutter?..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3NMRo8eTlU
Love how he keeps putting his hand beneath the blade :icon_eek:
Quote from: deadastronaut on February 05, 2014, 10:18:58 AM
tile cutter?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_OAovANaO4
You guys should learn English in school :icon_mrgreen:
^he's not English he's from Liverpool... ;D
( regardless of title thread, i'm talking about PCB FR4 board cutting.)
the snips are probably ok for small boards , but i want to cut A4 widths/lengths, i would think it would crack halfway through using those...
there is a definite market for a simple and inexpensive tool for cutting pcb FR4 easily, and precisely, with no mess/dust....ive done a fair bit of research, and everything ive come across
that is for ''pcb cutting'' is ludicrously pricey...... :icon_eek:...and i mean ludicrous..
i spoke with a guy who tried the minicraft table saw and he said it was useless, not enough power etc...so that's out now....hmmmm....
i know i would slip and cut my hands to ribbons trying this method....and then i wouldn't be able to play...kinda defeats the object really.. ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVegtCh_tu0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBkPX_QhRI0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
The last method he shows here looks pretty good for large pieces. Easy enough to knock something up that would do the same job using some angle iron and a few nuts and bolts.
If you're worried about slicing yourself up get down your local diy store and get some chainmail gloves :D
OSH Park, or similar. Just sayin'. ;)
When I feel lazy and I'm about to make a big mess, I often just prop the hose from my shop vac next to the source of the mess and turn it on and leave it on until I'm done. For instance, I score F4 with a utility knife next to the shop vac input and all the toxic dust flies in the vacuum immediately. Then I snap it in the vice, easy. Then I sand the edges down, again, next to the vacuum. It works for patching walls, sanding small pieces, drilling aluminum, etc. It's a loud waste of electricity, that's all. But I got ear plugs and I'm wasting electricity all the damn time anyway...
I no longer use Vero or Perf, but I remember I used to just run a Stanley knife along and over the holes and on both sides of the board then just snap it. I haven't read the whole thread here so not sure if anyone else has suggested suggested method.
yay!...at last.
i bought one of these maxicraft mini saws off ebay for £36.00 (don't get a minicraft, they are too low powered..)
and it cuts through fr4 etc like butter...and leaves a really nice sharp clean edge..
it has a dust collecting bin under it too...brilliant...no more wobbly lines, dust, and will make my life a whole lot easier... ;) 8) 8) 8)
nice and small too..about half the size of a roland micro cube.. 8)
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=maxicraft+mini+saw&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&imgil=ZNr8cbrx_VveAM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRYAhc3JtOfs757iPQJyW9QvMUZOIB0kSKM9pn2EFVuSdUWIt52%253B300%253B225%253B-prQzzlg8jLgBM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fitm%25252FMINI-CIRCULAR-SAW-maxicraft-hobby-one-40600-%25252F321109729003&source=iu&usg=__2nN5EXLuSa1qN_zBUaQ5JC6RrEY%3D&sa=X&ei=aIf7UqyvIKGa7QaE9YCAAg&ved=0CHMQ9QEwBw&biw=1887&bih=897#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=TZf7vbtvlrKa9M%253A%3BhuVSr_sRFNo6gM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.ebayimg.com%252Ft%252FMINI-CIRCULAR-SAW-maxicraft-hobby-one-40600-%252F00%252Fs%252FMTE5NVgxNjAw%252Fz%252FTSMAAMXQVT9S6stx%252F%252524_35.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fitm%252FMINI-CIRCULAR-SAW-maxicraft-hobby-one-40600-%252F111268896964%3B300%3B224