Author Topic: Schumann Lion  (Read 6942 times)

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digi2t

Schumann Lion
« on: September 12, 2013, 04:01:30 PM »
Here's a new one for the collection. Another hen's tooth (of course), courtesy of damiancubed, the Schumann Lion.

Pedal in question;




Schematic;



Test drive;



Not a bad sounding overdrive, and that coming from a guy who's not a great fan of overdrives.

Now... if I can just get my mitts on a Lion X, and a Two Face, I'll be able to stick a fork in the Schumann line. Anybody know anybody out there  ???
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

armdnrdy

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 04:10:15 PM »
A 4049 in an overdrive pedal?

Remember your question about the 4011 from the Mutron thread?

Well Dino.....there's your "buffer" IC being utilized as.....a inverting buffer?

 
I just designed a new fuzz circuit! It almost sounds a little different than the last fifty fuzz circuits I designed! ;)

digi2t

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 04:50:56 PM »
Damn, just noticed that the 10uF cap from pin 2 of the 4049 was backwards. Here's the corrected schematic;



After doing some research, it looks like a Red Llama, with some extra bells and whistles.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

Mark Hammer

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2013, 03:42:01 AM »
You should check out this article/design:  http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/tech-pages/46-articles/36-em-fuzz  (and I need to finally build the frigging thing, given that I have all the parts).

Bill Mountain

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2013, 04:06:40 AM »
It looks like there will always be at minimum a unity gain (maybe -6dB because of the mixing resistors) clean signal on the output.  I'll have to watch the video later.  In my constant search fro bass overdrives I guess I'll have to add this to the pile.

Thanks!

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2013, 04:35:17 AM »
Clean = A15K  :icon_eek:

Good luck finding that for all you "authentic" builders  :D
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moosapotamus

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2013, 11:31:39 AM »
Thanks, Dino! I've heard rumors that this is supposed be killer on bass. But then my old anderton tube sound fuzz has always been pretty sweet on bass, too.

Just for fun... got a pic of the inside?

Thanks
~ Charlie
moosapotamus.net
"I tend to like anything that I think sounds good."

digi2t

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2013, 01:37:01 PM »
Thanks, Dino! I've heard rumors that this is supposed be killer on bass. But then my old anderton tube sound fuzz has always been pretty sweet on bass, too.

Just for fun... got a pic of the inside?

Thanks
~ Charlie

Ah... yeah... the insides. Remember the PLL? Well, it's that, but in a smaller package. Witness;















Schumann was probably a genius at building circuits, but when it gets down to the nuts and bolts.... :icon_rolleyes:
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

UKToecutter

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2013, 03:15:27 PM »
The PLL and now the Lion.
Both examples of great design but inept execution.

Go figure.......

armdnrdy

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2013, 04:54:15 PM »
Okay...I give!

Even though the pictures are clear and detailed enough to extract information to make gloves bearing replicas of your fingerprints,
(so I can continue on my life of crime unhindered......)

For the life of me...I can't make out what that is in the last picture!

It looks like a Hot Wheel enveloped in a sausage casing and surrounded by electrical tape.

Am I close?
I just designed a new fuzz circuit! It almost sounds a little different than the last fifty fuzz circuits I designed! ;)

Tony Forestiere

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2013, 05:09:06 PM »
I have no idea what that connected mass is either.  ???
Off Topic: Nicely trimmed thumbnail. Nice cuticles too.  ;)
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Whoso neglects learning in his youth, loses the past and is dead for the future. Euripides

digi2t

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 03:18:17 AM »
They are the two voltage regulators, with the two trimmers, resistors, and half the didoes, mounted on a piece of perf. On the right of the same picture, we catch the edge of a big tube of heatshrink, containing the two 470uF caps, and the other half of the diodes. The 10uF caps are on the main board.

Yes... you read correctly.

It's a carbon copy of the PLL's power section, but in bits and pieces, wired together. :icon_eek:

And, I had that nail done up special for this shoot. :icon_lol:
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

Gus

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 03:34:28 AM »
The power supply looks like it is over built.  Can you check the diode connections after the 317 and 337 are they as drawn or are they connected to the in and out pins of the 317 337?

I question the use of the 072 because the 150K input resistance and the 1K and 15K feedback resistors.  Why use a fet input at 150K?  Why use a dual opamp?  Why low value feedback resistors?  The input resistance is low 150K in parallel with 68K

Circuit could use the other 1/2 of the opamp as a buffer with a higher input resistance to the drive the following two stages.  

With +- supplies use a .1uf input cap with a 470k to 1meg resistor + input to ground  

You could also leave the buffer in circuit and use a DPDT switch to switch between the buffer output or the distortion section output and use the other switch section to switch a led.  The effect uses AC powers so having a buffer on all the time is not a issue

In the clean section I would make the 1K a 4.7k or 5.1K or 6.8K or 9.1k or 8.2k or 10K and the 15K a 100k depend on the max gain wanted

The "clean" side opamp in noniverting with a max gain of about x16 and is powered by +- supplies
The distortion looks like it is powered with the + supply and uses two stage so the inversions make it noniverting over all but with a lot of distortion added it then mixed the distortion into the clean with the level control.

I watched the video it does not sound anything special to me sounds like a distortion.  Is it anything special that did not record or play back well in the video?

« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 03:56:49 AM by Gus »

Gus

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 04:43:52 AM »
One way  I might build the circuit.  I used opamps from the lt spice down load I would use a 72 etc.  Could use a 7812 and 7912 instead of the 317 and 337.  Change the input resistance at the buffer to what you like
Basic adjustments to the circuit.  Maybe add a series 1K at the input.
A screenshot to get some ideas going
EDIT I would add a NP 10uf cap after R6 and before R9 in case there is any DC offset from the clean gain opamp section
also more the connection from R8 to C2 to the other side of C2
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 05:27:58 AM by Gus »

digi2t

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 04:56:44 AM »
Quote
The power supply looks like it is over built.  Can you check the diode connections after the 317 and 337 are they as drawn or are they connected to the in and out pins of the 317 337?

It's as it is. I updated the schematic to reflect the regulator pin numbers, just in case the diagram was creating confusion.



Your ideas and redraw are, as always, most definitely worth breadboarding.

Quote
I watched the video it does not sound anything special to me sounds like a distortion.  Is it anything special that did not record or play back well in the video?

Camera mics are certainly not the best conduits of sound, certainly where nuance is concerned. All I can say is that it delivers a certain "sweetness", especially where harmonic content is concerned. It's not in your face though, and is most probably better suited to a tube amp. But, in general, it's meh, although many bass players say that it really rocks on bass. From what I've read, it's more widely used by bass players than guitar players. Guitar players gravitate more towards the Lion X.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

Gus

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 05:31:13 AM »
Note I did not add the distortion section to the screenshot

One could "drop in" a rat like section adjust the 68K and coupling cap value or a dist + or a....

then you can adjust the
Cs for the highpass to the sections etc.

Gus

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2013, 02:10:05 AM »
I drew a 9VDC type circuit based on this thread.

digi2t

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2013, 02:34:42 AM »
I drew a 9VDC type circuit based on this thread.


Could you provide a link?
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

wavley

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2013, 04:00:28 AM »
The PLL and now the Lion.
Both examples of great design but inept execution.

Go figure.......

I think you might be able to add the Ludwig to that list.
New and exciting innovations in current technology!

darlingtonpair.bandcamp.com
eccohollow.bandcamp.com

Gus

Re: Schumann Lion
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2013, 12:54:33 PM »
9VDC idea  Might want to experiment with opamps.  I left out some details


Revised the first schematic I posted