hen's tooth cafe contestant, micmix dynaflanger

[wayne kirkwood]

Thanks everyone!

I do have a question regarding the connection of the output of U5B to S4.

There is a fold on the drawing that makes the connection a bit unclear.
I believe that it should be connected to lug 2 of the "EXT" switch. Would this be the correct connection?

That is correct. The output of U5B (a follower) does feed the External switch at pin 2. I can barely see it on the blue line and it is indeed right on the fold.

[armdnrdy]

Thanks Wayne.

Much appreciated!

[Tompski]

So it's been over a year since any frenzied talk took place about the Dynaflange....

Should I worry that after getting the complete schematic that you all built yourselves two each and are stuck playing Zappa solos in Flanger heaven?

I am just a guitarist not a proper builder, I have built pedal kits from BYOC but without instructions the science and maths evades me.
I wish someone would build a stereo pedal or rack unit that could really do the Shut Up And Play Yer Guitar sounds, it's so unique, I was very excited when Pigtronix announced they were making a pedal that did this sound, and even more excited when I saw Dweezil was using it, but I have to say after owning that pedal for a couple of months I don't think it comes close to properly getting that sound, it felt more like an 80s metal tone with a very short delay, it's interesting and unique for sure but does not nail it, ( sorry if any Pigtronix people are on here!)
we need a pedal? rack that can do all the Flanger doubling, following and compression all in one... big ask? surely as I said before one of you has already done this and has been quietly selling them to everyone on this thread.

The closest I have been able to get to the doubling sound with pedals is using my Dr. Scientist Cosmichorus, I can provide settings if anyone has one and is interrested.

[pinkjimiphoton]

hi tompski,

i think the main barrier here is simply that there aren't any SAD1024 chips out there, so the circuit would need a complete redesign to accomodate
available bucket brigade chips. not impossible, but still above my paygrade a bit i think.

some of the smarter guys may be able to do it tho.

but remember... the "tone" of FZ is from FZ more than his gear, and  a LOT of the sounds you hear are from postproduction, including this flanger. he did appear to use it live,
but it's the studio applications where ya really get that insane pillowy stereo imaging... that's more to frank's credit than the unit i'd imagine.

maybe someone will pick this up and run with it. if it were designed for more common bbd's, i'd definitely take a crack at it. would love to see this ride again.

someone needs to come up with a small PCB retrofit board that has the complete conversion, with all assorted support peripherals on a little board that plugs right into the original SAD socket. it's gotta be do-able. seems to me the best solution, as then building one board anyone could restore any other SAD kinda board.

it may be harder than i think to do that tho.

[Tompski]

Hi there,
Thanks for your reply

Yeh I understand the level of crazy production that Zappa put in to stuff afterwards it's just the Dyna Flanger has become mythical as a result, I have chased a few of his very original sounds, I succeeded with the Ship Ahoy sample hold release sound with a Subdecay Protius and distortion and wah and got quite a convincing tone, then there is the legendary Mutron Bi Phase which was very elusive and stupidly expensive for years but now Mike Beagel is back in business recreating his entire old line of pedals from back then so a new Bi Phase should be with us in the next couple of years, in the mean time I bought a Pi-Phase from Prophecy sounds which is pretty close although having never owned an original Bi-Phase I wouldn't know how close.
I recently bought a second hand Line 6 Liqua Flange which is very toy like but does do a triggered flanger so I can get the vomiting type tone from the intro of The Blue Light, not sure whether he used the Dynaflange for that.
but you're right essentially we would all need 2 x Dynaflangers and 2 x rack compressor to get the Shut up and play sounds unless someone designs an all in one unit of some sort and I doubt many of us have those kind of funds.
Even when Frank just used the straight flanger in these units it sounded very unique and sludgy, less of the metallic tone, does anyone on here think they have found a flanger that comes close just in feel and texture?

[pinkjimiphoton]

the nux mod core pedal can come close. you can run two simultaneous independent modulations with it, say a thru-zero-ish tape flange with another flanger or phaser in your choice of series or parallel in stereo.... will get ya close. i hooked mine up in stereo with two different flanges (one was actually a very slow phaser) in parallel in stereo, with a good fuzzbox in front and pretty soon was hearing satanic munchkins pooting forth weird vocalesque chanty kinda weirdness that was most attractive in it's quasi sea-sickening but very huge and mind-altering way.

you can get 'em on ebay for like 80 bux, they do so much shit WITH tap tempo, and buffered/true bypass etc that it's pretty hard to beat for the kaching.
but the caveat is if you try and tap in a tempo on a preset, it can get VERY weird and sometimes needs to be reset to clear it. but if ya wanna hear some straaaaaaaaaaaange sounds, many lurk within. chorusing, flanging, phasing, tremolo,vib, rotary (some in multiple flavas) and being able to choose two (pick two, moe!! nyuck nyuck nyuck) is kinda almost worth dealing with it's couple issues.

it even has a little lcd display screen, that shows ya the effect and the settings of the knobs, and lets you choose between editing each effect. lotta bang for the buck and totally digital, but it's about the closest i've come personally to that pillow effect in stereo frank found so tasty.

i could dig it out and shoot some video but it's probably already on youtube.

OR maybe there IS a way to make a plug-n-play retrofit for the SAD. i know it's been done, i think i even attempted at one time. then ya could build one of these with a more readily available chip.

OR maybe get on the FZ family boards or dweezil's website, and see if enough zappa heads would wanna be involved to get a bunch of chips made? that's WAY above my paygrade.

[Tompski]

Are you sure you mean the Nux, when I looked it up it was a single effect pedal with no LCD screen, or are you sending two flangers through it because it splits ?

[pinkjimiphoton]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC2.A0.H0.Xnux+mod+force.TRS0&_nkw=nux+mod+force&_sacat=0



Features:
12 Modulation effects give you all the modulation effects you'll ever need.
Stereo signal processing, provide a fantastically musical feast.
Color TFT LCD panel(128x128), graphic interface make the overall operation easy and intuitive.
With 9 storable user presets, you can have a good preparation before performance.
2 alternative bypass: buffered bypass and true bypass, you can choose one of them according to your need.
Aluminum alloy housing, good durability.
The pedal can be powered by a 9V DC.

Specifications:
Color: White
Material of housing: Aluminum alloy
Effect types: 12 modulation models
Presets: Up to 9 storable user presets plus manual mode
Sampling frequency: 44.1 kHz
A/D converter: 24-bit
Signal processing: 32-bit
Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz ±1dB
THD+N: 93dBu (<0.003%) A-Weighting
Dynamic range: 100dB
Input: -20dBV@1MΩ
Output: -10dBV (output load impedance of 10k Ohms or more)
Display: 128*128 QVGA TFT
Power: 9V DC (9V battery, ACD-007 adapter)(not included)
Product size: 9.5 * 10.5 * 3.8cm / 3.7 * 4.1 * 1.5in
Product weight: 408g / 14,4oz
Package size: 12.5 * 14 * 6cm / 4.9 * 5.5 * 2.4in
Package weight: 489g / 17.2oz

Package List:  I298
1 * Nux mod force
1 * User manual (English& Chinese)

[pinkjimiphoton]

the time force delay (looks real similar) is even better, for what it is.

[anotherjim]

A small question.
In the DynaFlanger scheme, there is a 4-stage fixed phase shift (I think) after the BBD. What that for?

[armdnrdy]

A small question.
In the DynaFlanger scheme, there is a 4-stage fixed phase shift (I think) after the BBD. What that for?

U14 is an 8 pole filter to reconstruct the BBDs output.

More info and a circuit description from the designer here:
http://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=612&p=6951

[Mark Hammer]

Theta processing.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=91378.0

[anotherjim]

I think Larry has it , and it is indeed the designers explanation. It looks odd, but it's just a chain of 4, 2-pole Sallen-Key LPF's. I think not being able to read the input pin polarities on the amp symbols throws the brain off - or it did with mine 

Interesting stuff on the "Theta" processing Mark.  The name is I suppose from the use of the Greek letter Theta for Phase displacement, yes?

[Mark Hammer]

No idea, but the motivation is to reduce the boxiness of flangers when they sweep low by staggering the notches/peaks a little differently, and in a non-harmonic manner.

I perfed up a little add-on board with a quad op-amp of fixed lag-type phase-shift stages some time back that I need to insert into an existing flanger to see if I like the sound any better.  The lag topology is important, since the idea is that more phase-shift is added with decreasing frequency.  Most of us are more accustomed to the lead-type where phase shift increases as you go higher up.

[Tompski]

Any news on here? anyone made a Dynaflanger?

I am on the wait list for the new TZF II from Foxrox which has an envelope control and I'm also on on the pre pay list for the new pedalboard friendly Ada Flanger, I wonder if I try these two in series if I might get some of those Zappa flanger tones.

http://www.foxroxelectronics.com/ParadoxTZF2.html

http://www.adaamps.com/Products/ada-PBF-Flanger/PBF-Flanger.htm

[pinkjimiphoton]

probably not, unfortunately. i'd advise buying a pair of cheap as possible used flangers and experiment first to see if it will get you what you want. otherwise, you're gonna spend a fortune chasing a tone i don't think you'll get.

the dynaflanger is a stereo flange going opposite directions in stereo... so you'll have phasing issues, and won't be able to actually replicate the sound. you may be able to get both clocks going in a way where you MAY be able to kinda pseudo fake it, but it won't likely be repeatable sadly.

me? i'd get a couple cheapos, maybe some dod's or something and try it before i'd lay the bread down.

that said, imho, everything dave foxx has come up with has been really cool. wicked nice guy, too... known him since the harmony central days.

good luck in your quest man, if it works out i'd love to hear about it.

[Tompski]

cheers dude, I am getting these two anyway not just for the Zappa reason mainly because they are both legendary pedals, as I said before I get pretty close to this tone with my Dr Scientist Cosmichorus and wah and distortion.
I will report back about these two if I have a breakthrough.

[Tompski]

But seriously did Zappa have the only two Dynaflangers in existance??!! I can't even find decent photos of one or a manual. Has anyone on this thread actually seen one or played with one?

[armdnrdy]

But seriously did Zappa have the only two Dynaflangers in existance??!! I can't even find decent photos of one or a manual. Has anyone on this thread actually seen one or played with one?

You are a few years too late for this one! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MicMix-DynaFlanger-Rackmount-Envelope-Controlled-Analog-Flange-Delay-Frank-Zappa-/110900778258?nma=true&si=9Uu3lDc%252FYBSt4tItRWYAVv%252BwKK8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[petey twofinger]

ot , but ... +1 on the nux force units , i have the delay , the mod , and the amp sim . right now i am using the mod force stock unmodded but i admit to thinking about modding it for envelope control over the depth or rate but , ultimately i would want to order another one as i really love all three .

i bought "shut up" when it was released and that tone immediately piqued my interest , but unfortunately , over the years i have practically given up all hope on that . i do feel the more folks TYPE about stuff like this , the chance that a company will resurect this idea as it did really stand out . if my back pain situation had not escalated to where it is today there is a good chance i would be working on this envelope control idea right now but , i havent been able to get much done the last few years .

that being said , this is one of the threads i get excited about when i see it has been updated .