Layout Tips

[instantaphex]

So, I'm trying to finalize my build.  I've got my enclosure all drilled the way I want it and now I want to transfer my breadboarded project to perfboard.  I didn't have too many problems breadboarding it but transferring to perfboard is giving me a hard time.  Do you guys have any tips for doing this?  I downloaded diy layout creator but I'm still a bit lost.  I decided to just give it a go and after soldering a few things together, I realized that I need a game plan first.  How do I come up with a layout that works?

[tubegeek]

For perfboard, my method is to lay the whole thing out on graph paper first. You'll want to measure your caps & resistors to see how many .1 of an inch between leads you will need, perfboard holes are .1 apart. That means either you have the parts before you start or look the sizes up on the website of whichever supplier you are looking at.

Another way to do it is with a graphics program instead of graph paper but I don't usually do it that way - I'm so old school I went to Gothenberg before there was a Denmark.

The [lace I start is with an op amp if the circuit uses one, or else the input leads if there are all discrete parts. Follow your nose from part to part and if something gets too tangled stop and think about doing it a better way or throwing a jumper in there to get some more room, or....

Also I find the Radio Shack patterned perfboard is kind of useful - it helps you get a +V bus and a ground bus run, and then you sort of go from there. And you can always copy their patterns for inspiration, using unpatterned perfboard if you find the layout makes sense to you.



or

[deadastronaut]

look at your schematic/breadboard , and follow it from left to right..in/out..

then add your components 1 at a time accordingly, taking note of the ''nodes'' (connections) along the way...

take your time and mark off on the schematic  which components you have added and you should be fine.

stick 9v at the top...ground on the bottom...is a good start.

[Ice-9]

How about the good old fashioned way ? Some paper and a pencil. It works.

[stevie1556]

I generally do PCBs and not perf or stripboard, but it's still kinda the same.

I start off with the IC, then looking at the schematic, I build stuff into blocks, then put that onto the board, try and re-arrange it better, then put the next block of parts in, re-arrange that, and so on.

Everyone has their own way of doing it, there isn't a right or wrong way. Just experiment and see what works for you.

[instantaphex]

Thanks for the good advice, guys.  The perfboard layout is just so different from the breadboard.  My perfboard also doesn't have solder pads on it, which makes things a bit difficult.  Not having V+ and Ground busses on both sides makes laying it out on perfboard not so intuitive.  Steve from smallbear specifically told me to use a vetted layout, and he was right.  The problem is that I don't have one.  I have a veroboard layout but no veroboard.  It was an awesome feeling to hear it work on the first try on a bread board but I've gotten a bit discouraged trying to put this on perf.  I started going and then realized that getting everything to ground that needed to get there was going to be a problem.  I've seen people solder down leads across multiple eyelets but what is the best way to deal with that?

[deadastronaut]

what circuit /  vero is it?...just curious.

[duck_arse]

you can use a vero layout on perfboard, if you can be bothered running all the traces needed.

I've never used perf.

[moosapotamus]

I've seen people solder down leads across multiple eyelets but what is the best way to deal with that?

That's it - solder down leads across multiple eyelets - create your own busses for V+ and GND.
Or, get perfboard with copper traces that are exactly like a breadboard (similar to what tubegeek posted, above).

Perfboard WITH solder pads is much easier to work with.

Also, instead of working with a perfboard layout that is completely different than your breadboard layout, you could transfer your VERIFIED breadboard layout to your perfboard.

~ Charlie

[gjcamann]

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/09/vero-layout-guide.html
This may help.

[R.G.]

Layout tips:
1. All wires and copper traces are really just low value resistors.
2. As a result, keep all signal wires as short and direct as possible and practical.
3. Make signal flow from input through the circuit as short and direct as possible.
4. To the greatest extent possible, keep all the components for one section of the circuit (i.e., amplifier or opamp section, or IC ) as close to the active parts in that section as you can. Resistors that connect to an IC, for instance, should be right by the IC unless there is a good reason why they must not be.
5. Bypass capacitors between power and ground may not be shown on schematics, but they are always needed. Use 0.1uF ceramic caps between power and ground pins as close to IC leads as you can put them. Yes, even for tested circuits. This can help (although not fully compensate for) otherwise poor layout.

[instantaphex]

what circuit /  vero is it?...just curious.

Menatone blue collar from tagboard effects:

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/06/menatone-blue-collar-early-version.html

The schematic is linked to at the bottom of the comments.

[instantaphex]

you can use a vero layout on perfboard, if you can be bothered running all the traces needed.

I've never used perf.

I may just have to invest in some veroboard.  Why have you never used it?  Just don't like it?

[instantaphex]

I've seen people solder down leads across multiple eyelets but what is the best way to deal with that?

That's it - solder down leads across multiple eyelets - create your own busses for V+ and GND.
Or, get perfboard with copper traces that are exactly like a breadboard (similar to what tubegeek posted, above).

Perfboard WITH solder pads is much easier to work with.

Also, instead of working with a perfboard layout that is completely different than your breadboard layout, you could transfer your VERIFIED breadboard layout to your perfboard.

~ Charlie

I spread my bread board layout out quite a bit.  It won't fit inside my enclosure like it is.  The other problem is the bus issue I mentioned.  It was pretty convenient having ground on both sides and being able to jumper from a clip to the ground bus.  I could try to compact it I suppose.

[instantaphex]

5. Bypass capacitors between power and ground may not be shown on schematics, but they are always needed. Use 0.1uF ceramic caps between power and ground pins as close to IC leads as you can put them. Yes, even for tested circuits. This can help (although not fully compensate for) otherwise poor layout.

Out of curiosity, why?

[tubegeek]

5. Bypass capacitors between power and ground may not be shown on schematics, but they are always needed. Use 0.1uF ceramic caps between power and ground pins as close to IC leads as you can put them. Yes, even for tested circuits. This can help (although not fully compensate for) otherwise poor layout.

Out of curiosity, why?

Provides a low impedance path for noise/oscillations/assorted garbage straight to ground, avoiding infecting the signal path.

[R.G.]

Yes, what t.g. said.

Another way to think of it is that ICs need little bursts and blips of current as they amplify the signal. It takes noticeable time for the IC to get current packets from the remote power supply. The capacitors act like a local bucket of charge so the IC can get what it needs FAST and then recharge the bucket between the blips. At the speeds that electrons move (actually, for the purist readers, the speed that the electrical fields move; electrons drift much more slowly, it's the field that matters) the difference between a capacitor being right at the IC and a few inches of wire away is not only measurable, it can make a difference whether the IC is starved for current and/or oscillates.

[davent]

5. Bypass capacitors between power and ground may not be shown on schematics, but they are always needed. Use 0.1uF ceramic caps between power and ground pins as close to IC leads as you can put them. Yes, even for tested circuits. This can help (although not fully compensate for) otherwise poor layout.

Out of curiosity, why?

Provides a low impedance path for noise/oscillations/assorted garbage straight to ground, avoiding infecting the signal path.

I just solder a small grain-a-rice ceramic cap directly to the power pins on the underside of a machined IC socket.



dave

[GGBB]

I just solder a small grain-a-rice ceramic cap directly to the power pins on the underside of a machined IC socket.

Brilliant!

[nocentelli]

+1 cool!

May I ask what they are and where they are from? My regular (UK, cheap) online place only does multilayer ceramic in radial flavours up to 1uF, and axials up to 0.1uF.