Special Fuzz vs. Super Fuzz

[digi2t]

I had a mind-numbingly slow day at work yesterday, so as I normally do when in said predicament, I started thinking about pedals. Specifically, the Superfuzz. It occurred to me that the Honey Special Fuzz, was also a "Superfuzz" type circuit, but from memory, I couldn't remember what the differences were. I decided to investigate that today.

First off, here's the Superfuzz schematic that I based my Superfuzz build from;



The only differences between the above schematic, and my build are; I'm using a pot instead of a switch for the scoop control, I have a trimmer below the clipping diodes to adjust the clipping, and I have a trimmer on the base of Q6 to tweak the transistor voltages to the original specs. So that gives me this as a final product (Thanks to UKToecutter for the schematic).



From memory, I could remember that the fuzz section of the Special Fuzz carried six transistors, like the Superfuzz, but I couldn't remember if the layout, or components were the same. Looking at it today, I see that there are many differences. The six transistors are there (same 2SC828Q's spec'd for the Superfuzz), but the layout, and many of the component values are different. For the sake of clarity, I've taken Dirk Hendrik's schematic of the Honey Special Fuzz, and cut out the auto wah section. Here is the fuzz section;



What surprised me wasn't so much the different component values here and there, but the fact that the gain stage on one is at the beginning, and at the end on the other. I decided to do a side by side shootout between the two;

Soooooo.... what's going on here? I can probably see why they used a boost at the end of the chain on the Honey, since you could run through the auto-wah section direct (no fuzz). I guess the dry signal needed a bit of a boost to help match it up unity-wise with the fuzz. But, I'm wondering if there's any advantage/disadvantage to building a Superfuzz using the Honey layout. Sure, you can add an Expander pot, and even throw a Tone switch section (or pot) in there, but does the one transistor being in front, or behind, REALLY make a huge difference? As the video demonstrates, to my ears, yes.

Insert opinions here...

[UKToecutter]

Interesting stuff.

Yes, there's definitely a difference.  I like them both by the way.

Hmm I wonder if we could use a second 3PDT stomp switch to move the gain stage.
I'm sure that's a stupid idea, but........................

[slacker]

Interesting, my guess is the two transistor gain stage in the Superfuzz has more gain than the single transistor, so you're hitting the phase splitter, octave generator and the clipping diodes with a hotter signal than in the Special Fuzz. It might also do some tone shaping.

There's a couple of other Superfuzz variants that only have a single transistor in the front end, can't remember what off the top of my head, think one's by   Ibanez.

[digi2t]

Interesting, my guess is the two transistor gain stage in the Superfuzz has more gain than the single transistor, so you're hitting the phase splitter, octave generator and the clipping diodes with a hotter signal than in the Special Fuzz. It might also do some tone shaping.

There's a couple of other Superfuzz variants that only have a single transistor in the front end, can't remember what off the top of my head, think one's by   Ibanez.

This is the Ibanez one, but it uses a FET;

[glops]

Acetone Fuzzmaster FM2 is another. My fav!