LEGO for guitarists

[emil]

Guys, what do you think. Is it better to make a 'ready product' in a box or to make the modules on PCBs as provide it as a development kit and leave the maker to make the box. This is what we discuss with my friend and partner George. Actually we are on both opposite poles .

[pinkjimiphoton]

interesting. back in the 60's they had electronic component "dominoes" that worked in a similar fashion... you could build circuits, and the "legos" held together magnetically.

i don't know why it never caught on, i'd imagine back then perhaps the tech wasn't up to it. be curious about using magnets... while rare earth magnets can be very strong, in my experience they shatter easily and can lose magnetism if subjected to extremes of temperature.

look forward to watching this evolve, what a cool idea.

[emil]

Yeah, we are negotiating with one Chinese factory for magnetic connectors.

Look these guys. They have done some electronic lego with magnets

http://littlebits.cc/

[Lurco]

This reminds me of the Zvex board ,how did that work for him as IDK?

What is IDK?

I  Don`t Know

[emil]

What is that Zvex board? Can you provide some link?

[Lurco]

What is that Zvex board? Can you provide some link?

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81880.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81528.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86054.0

NOT: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=97887.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81803.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=89025.0

[emil]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81880.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81528.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86054.0

NOT: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=97887.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81803.0
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=89025.0

Thanks Lurco. I find all the ideas interesting but I think none of them solves any problem at all.

As a DIY-er for me the main problems are:

1. Finding affordable decent quality elements like pots, switches, etc
2. If I use soldering on universal board it is very hard to apply changes or reuse the already soldered elements
3. The enclosure and the decent look

These are the problems if we talk about replication of existing effect. What we aim is to go a little bit out of the box bu providing DIY-er with a tool that they can experiment and invent schematics on a development platform, which has to be affordable. What we are working at the moment is an universal enclosure that the designed effect can be easily put into. Everything should be durable and reliable in order to use it on stage without any doubt of failure.

[facon]

Thanks Lurco. I find all the ideas interesting but I think none of them solves any problem at all.

As a DIY-er for me the main problems are:

1. Finding affordable decent quality elements like pots, switches, etc
2. If I use soldering on universal board it is very hard to apply changes or reuse the already soldered elements
3. The enclosure and the decent look

These are the problems if we talk about replication of existing effect. What we aim is to go a little bit out of the box bu providing DIY-er with a tool that they can experiment and invent schematics on a development platform, which has to be affordable. What we are working at the moment is an universal enclosure that the designed effect can be easily put into. Everything should be durable and reliable in order to use it on stage without any doubt of failure.

I'm sorry, but I don't really have any of these problems and I'm not sure that many others do.

1. Small Bear, Mammoth, Mouser, Digikey, Tayda, Futurlec, eBay, etc...
2. Socket components you may use later or would like to mod. Otherwise, desoldering wick is very cheap and easy to use.
3. Small Bear and Mammoth both offer predrilled, great looking enclosures. Very many other suppliers carry Hammond enclosures in many colors.

I can see the lego idea making it easier for somebody that is a beginner to guitar effects. An easy learning tool. I don't see it being something that they could actually use in a live situation or would want to invest too much in. As far as the other "issues" you're addressing for the every day DIYer, well those issues are half the fun for me.

[Ben N]

Looks like fun. I also thought right away of RG's FXBus concept. I'm sure there are ideas there in common with yours, Emil, but maybe one or two things that might be of value to you--including modules.

[emil]

Looks like fun. I also thought right away of RG's FXBus concept. I'm sure there are ideas there in common with yours, Emil, but maybe one or two things that might be of value to you--including modules.

I am not sure I understood you

[armdnrdy]

This reminds me of the Zvex board ,how did that work for him as IDK?

What is IDK?

Internet slang for "I don't know"

[Lurco]

This reminds me of the Zvex board ,how did that work for him as IDK?

What is IDK?

Internet slang for "I don't know"

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106574.msg969145#msg969145

[ggedamed]

Emil, I think you need to clarify with yourself about your target. Take a look at what the guys from littleBits are saying:

Just as LEGO™ allows you to create complex structures with very little engineering knowledge, littleBits are small, simple, intuitive, blocks that make creating with sophisticated electronics a matter of snapping small magnets together.

No-DIYer guitarists will just search for The Toan and, after finding it, they'll defend it against everything (including logic ).

On the other hand, hardcore DIYers need to be able to adjust every bit of his circuit. They could use modules as tiny breadboards with pins for connecting in a normal breadboard or a motherboard, for the ability to easily swap entire sections.

Beginners would benefit the most from your system as I understand it now, as it will give them the ability to test the basic stompbox blocks with little effort.

[emil]

On the other hand, hardcore DIYers need to be able to adjust every bit of his circuit. They could use modules as tiny breadboards with pins for connecting in a normal breadboard or a motherboard, for the ability to easily swap entire sections.

Thanks ggedamed, I just was searching a way to explain the idea with few word and you just did it.

We are going to make boards that can easily connect to each other and can swap. Each board will have jumpers, sockets, etc. and the DIY-er can exchange easily the elements like capacitors transistors etc.

At the beginning we were just focused into the wrong target group.

[Les Paul Lover]

Ive followed that thread for a while ad found the concept and idea very interesting.

However, I'm not sure that it is a great concept as a DIYer product. Somebody wating to learn to solder a pedal will usually pick an easy circuit like a SHO or other simple boost or fuzz. It's plenty of them around, and the kits are really cheap, including enclosures. I think my SHO clone set me back £26 + shipping.
Somebody more advanced will pick more advanced cirucuits, and a variety of enclosures are available on the market for those.

I'm not sure how appealing your proposition is to the DIYer in essence, beginner or advanced, you market will probably be very small.

As a ready built set of components to make up your own circuits though, i think that's where your best chance of success lies, people who aren't DIYer but are keen to experiment with good quality circuit that can be easily swapped in a chain.

Have you done a market research?

I would strongly recommend you do, I'm sure you can post on a few guitar forums (as many as you can) and DIY effects forum and see what the response is. The "survey monkey" should enable you to do that easily. I would personaly make the survey different for the guitar forum and diy effects forum, as the bias there would be different.


I hope this helps and is reasonably constructive.

[Brymus]

For me time to actually breadboard circuits is almost impossible to find ,with this I could "breadboard" a circuit much faster by having the input buffer, gain stages, EQ stages,LFO,ect as modules ready to snap together,Something not in module form could be done on a small BB and added in.Also swapping different buffers and such would be much faster in this form then having to pull all the components from the BB and put them away,ect
As example a BMP could be built by using separate gain stages and EQ,ect.
If the gain stage modules have sockets for the clipping diodes then it would be much quicker to compare by swapping X stage with Ge clippers for Y stage with LED clippers,I hope that makes sense.
I guess what I am trying to say is imagine the gain stage for the BMP is a module with the components using sockets so the DC blocking caps,clipping diodes,transistor,and bias R's can be altered then you can snap them in and out for quick comparison,or mix and match modules ect.

IDK I see a lot of value with this concept for DIY, but for me to purchase it ,it would have to include several modules and components at an attractive price.
Complex modules or even whole FX could be pre made using SMD,something I currently can't do,cheaply and in small package.

[emil]

Nice replies guys,
These are very helpful for us.

@Les Paul Lover we are doing some concept clarification at the moment. That's why I post on this forum. And I stay focused on this forum as I know it as the most famous one. Yes we have done some basic market research - this product is definitely not the most commercial one. If our goal is to build commercial products we have to compete with companies like BOSS, Ibanez and we as a small company have no chance. Of course we want to have some profit, but profit is not everything. Our goal is to provide a product that adds value to some group of people. There are 2 types of DIY-ers: makers and inventors. I wanted to build my own schematic, my own effect and this is how this idea came to me. I am an inventor type. You should decide on which side you are.

@Brymus Good point. I found that is it a big change if you can swap the EQ section or re-bias the FETs with single touch of a varying resistor. Now we are doing some research on good quality sockets for the elements. We want to make all elements that have impact on the sound exchangeable. The main problem is to keep the price reasonable.

Soon I am going to post some schematics and I expect suggestions from you. What schematics do you want to see on the boards? Do you prefer SMD or thru holes?

There is something else. We like the idea of magnetic connectors, but it is really hard to find. I have some discussion with a Chinese company to produce 16-pin male and female connectors, but they have minimum order quality of 5000 which makes around $15k. I am not sure that we can get this amount of money by venture capitalists or some pre-sales strategy. What do you think?

[Brymus]

Me personally I only work with through hole components .I plan to someday venture into SMD as everything is going to be SMD soon enough anyway.
I think for schematics your staple pedals are a good place to start,then expand by dissecting them into blocks that can interchange.
TS808,SD1,Dist+,BMP,LPB,Fuzz Face,Compressor,Buffer,Booster,Phaser,Delay,Wah ,Auto Wah,Fet distortion,Cab sims
I think those have enough interchangeable blocks to be a good starting point.
And with the exception of Cab sims most players use at least two or three of the above mentioned pedals.

[emil]

I have already disected some stock pedals but I see no other solution but to copy some stock Cab sims. I personally use Behringer V-amp with ULTRA-G cab sim which is analogue and I am quite happy with it especially when I connect some analogue drives in front of it

[emil]

Hey guys,

I haven't updated this topic for a long time. SnabDrive turned to be interesting project but unfortunately I don't have time and financial resources to bring it to some usable state or some kind of MVP. Therefore I decided to look for an investor to invest some money in prototyping and production. I received many rejections as expected but I don't give up easily. One Estonian investor has an interest, but they also want market proof that this product will sell and they were very interested on what price. I couldn't answer the market question. I know that there are officially about 20mln guitar players, but it doesn't help much. I also don't have partners and this is a must in start-ups.

What is your opinion? Please, tell me what you think? Should I hustle investors or hustle my potential market? Maybe it is not a good product, or? Should I try some crowd funding on Kickstarter?

Please give me your feedback and be honest no matter how negative it will be