Any tips connected with fitted pcb?

[gasmask]

I always enjoyed the idea of building pedal without using wires.
So I decided to design pcb including all parts (pots, switch, jacks).
But there are some problems:
1. Will it fit in enclosure?
2. Which pots are the best?
3. How to drill enclosure without making a mistake ( i mean location of the parts such as pots or jacks)?

I really would like to know some tips from more experienced diy builders... 
thanks for all replies
gas

[Kipper4]

RG Keen has an excellent book on the subject and it's available at Smallbears store. (Not affiliated).
Do you use any software. Diylc, eagle etc?

[smallbearelec]

some problems:
1. Will it fit in enclosure?
2. Which pots are the best?
3. How to drill enclosure without making a mistake

1. As noted, R. G. 's book will show you how to economically lay out a circuit, and then the size of the board dictates the size of the enclosure. However, learning to do a good layout is a long process. You may want to look at a vetted layout for something you want to build. Then see if it is friendly to board-mounted controls, or if it can be made so.

2. There is no "best". There are now several styles of board-mountable pots readily available from several shops. With careful planning, they can all be made to work.

3. Paper templates. The is an article on how to make and use these at GEOFEX, and you can find my ideas and designs in How-Tos and Projects at smallbearelec.com.

[R.G.]

The real answer is to take a course in mechanical drawing, or 3D modelling.

I had to take the old pen-paper-and-Tsquare mechanical drawing courses for engineers back when I was a freshman and dinosaurs roamed the earth. Today, that's much easier. A lot of the different views and such we learned to draw was to specify 3-d locations and shapes on 2-D paper. But the concepts are the same.

The real way to do this is to
1. Place the controls on the enclosure in the places they have to go to look and work right.
2. Model (either 2-d or 3-d) what space these take up and where the connecting tabs and legs go inside.
3. Only then start to lay out the PCB, and keep all the pins for the controls, jacks, etc where they have to go to work as placed on the enclousure.

The real problem you get into in trying to do this with no wires is that
1. There are real mechanical assembly problems and reliability problems if you have controls firmly attached to both a pcb and the enclosure in more than one plane in 3-space. Done wrong, this leads to broken leads and solder joints. Done REALLY wrong, you can design something that can't be assembled in only three dimensions.
2. To get that one done, you have to find components that will all drop leads to a PCB so the leads all reach into and through the PCB. Finding all-same-height jacks, switches, pots and LED supports is a challenge.

[amptramp]

You may have to forego some normal practices if you want to make everything board-mounted.  If you attach a jack on one side for input, you cannot attach a jack on the other side and have both protrude through the box.  Not entirely a problem - I prefer to have the input, DC jack and output all along the top anyway but if there is no compliance in the mounting, you may have misregistration between them or the controls on the front.  There are pots with long printed circuit leads that will allow some slack.  The guy who comes up with a silicone rubber circuit board that can flex and withstand soldering temperatures will own this market.

There is also the possibility of using a flexprint such as those used in laptops and some calculators.  These are Kapton (polyimide) printed circuits that can bend and they may be usable to allow hard-mounted components on as many sides as you want.  They are sometimes used alone or attached to traditional epoxy-glass circuit boards.  If you need a picture:

http://www.epectec.com/Instantflexquote/flex-circuit-prototypes.html?gclid=CIrzkIHUyr0CFYZAMgod5nUALw

Most flex houses don't look at orders under 10,000 pieces because it is a mass production technique, but the source above has no minimum.

[mth5044]

If you attach a jack on one side for input, you cannot attach a jack on the other side and have both protrude through the box.  Not entirely a problem - I prefer to have the input, DC jack and output all along the top anyway but if there is no compliance in the mounting, you may have misregistration between them or the controls on the front.

Huh? Why don't you just put the jacks in the holes first then lower the board onto them? 

[CodeMonk]

You may have to forego some normal practices if you want to make everything board-mounted.  If you attach a jack on one side for input, you cannot attach a jack on the other side and have both protrude through the box.  Not entirely a problem - I prefer to have the input, DC jack and output all along the top anyway but if there is no compliance in the mounting, you may have misregistration between them or the controls on the front.  There are pots with long printed circuit leads that will allow some slack.  The guy who comes up with a silicone rubber circuit board that can flex and withstand soldering temperatures will own this market.

There is also the possibility of using a flexprint such as those used in laptops and some calculators.  These are Kapton (polyimide) printed circuits that can bend and they may be usable to allow hard-mounted components on as many sides as you want.  They are sometimes used alone or attached to traditional epoxy-glass circuit boards.  If you need a picture:

http://www.epectec.com/Instantflexquote/flex-circuit-prototypes.html?gclid=CIrzkIHUyr0CFYZAMgod5nUALw

Most flex houses don't look at orders under 10,000 pieces because it is a mass production technique, but the source above has no minimum.

There are these:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=793
While they don't go through the enclosure, the nuts/ferrule goes on them from the outside.
Its a plastic body so I'm not sure about grounding on these types with painted/coated enclosures either.

If you do top mount, its not such an issue.
But if you do side mount input/output jacks you have to be VERY exact on placement on the PCB. In all 3 dimensions.

Edit:
^^^^^^
And putting the jacks in, then attaching the board is a very bad idea.
What if something breaks?
Its gonna be a major pain to get the board out if the jacks protrude through the enclosure.

[greaser_au]

...and...  once you have finished the design & the parts have arrived, anything that is both soldered and secured by other means (e.g. pots/jacks on enclosures) your problem rate will be much reduced if you mount these parts with the mechanical hardware (either in the final assembly position or on an accurately drilled jig) THEN solder them in. The same applies to TO-220  and TO-3 devices like regulators;  bolt them down first, then solder.

david

[pappasmurfsharem]

Is say mount everything then just design the pcb with cutouts a where the jacks are. Only need 4 wires then.

And everything would only be mounted on 1 plane for easy disassembly

[gasmask]

I am really glad because of all these replies.
Kipper4: yes, I use eagle..

I thought about all problems related to jacks mounting... And height of pots and toggle switches...
But I realised that building pedal without wires could be difficult for me.
What do you guys think about z.vex fuzz factory pcb style (vertically mounted + 9mm pots mounted to board) ?