Tonepad Rebote 3

[SISKO]

In case somebody missed it, theres a new project at www.tonepad.com !

[Kipper4]

Can't wait for the rest of it.
Cheers dude.

[JebemMajke]

Any sound clips?

3 pt2399's?

I think this is going to be some nasty delay. Can;t wait for it to be released in full.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Direct from the Rebote 3 Description:

"Given the recent abuse of the info posted at tonepad we've been forced to implement a crowd-funded (or pay-per-view) way of posting the pdf. Once each batch of 50 boards is sold a new area of the pdf will be revealed in the following order: parts layout, schematic, and finally ready to transfer and traces images. Only parts layout will be available until we sell the first batch of boards. And customers will receive printed documentation to complete the project."

Exactly what is the "abuse" that Francisco is talking about?

[keko]

WOW... this is one of those sad moments on the internet.
I've enjoyed Tonepad projects since,well, forever. And it sucks to see them take that path.

It's unfair to them to see their projects abused. That's for sure. But IMO it's unfair to the community also, to set up that kind of paywall. Basically, because once you prize anything at zero (like the projects), it's hard or improbable to start charging for it. And it's great that they provide ready to solder PCBs and charge for them. Thats completely fair and they have been doing that for long time. But there's a difference here. They are now conditioning the release of a project based on the sales of a sub-product of that project. I know this phrase might set off some debate, and that's fine.

I would argue that it's because they offered so many cool, open projects in the past, that they built the reputation that allowed them to sell the boards in the first place. Now, what appears to be "selling the project" is odd, or to try to be positive, a really creative (maybe they could have just taken it directly to kickstarted???) way of stalling the abuse they all about. Stalling, not stoping unfortunately.

[slacker]

Is he promoting this somewhere? I can't see anyone buying it without either demos or a schematic.

[pappasmurfsharem]

Is he promoting this somewhere? I can't see anyone buying it without either demos or a schematic.

Right?!

I have no intention of dropping 17 bones on something I can't see or hear.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Doesn't Rob's Abductor delay have the capability to switch in only 3 of the PTs?

[deadastronaut]

Yes...you can switch in overall delay and 1/3/4 ..

but uses 4 pt's..


now send me $400.00

edit: in fact at one stage i had 5 pt's on 2 big breadboards, lots of switching fun...

from looking at the layout he has gone with current mirroring, and adding a single pot lfo...but no 'jumping'


edit2: i'm glad i posted my abductor before this....hmmmm 

[Mark Hammer]

Is he promoting this somewhere? I can't see anyone buying it without either demos or a schematic.

Right?!

I have no intention of dropping 17 bones on something I can't see or hear.

I understand your response, but:
a) it's not like Francisco has a track record of shipping lousy product that disappoints people; great layouts, great boards, solid projects
b) it's not like he hasn't been extremely generous to this community over the years
c) it's not like he's saying the layouts will never become available for total DIY-ers

He's simply trying to get a little something out of the project before making it completely available for folks to sidestep PCB purchase.  And while this is NOT any sort of comment on relative levels of generosity or business practices, you'll note that Madbean has some projects where a layout is provided for complete DIY-ers, some where you can buy a double-sided board, but a single-sided layout is made available, and some where the build documentation assumes you will buy the board and all that is shown is the parts layout.  

So, Francisco is not doing what nobody else tries to do; he's just putting his own little twist on it.  It might slow down uptake on the project, given that it relies on implicit trust of potential buyers in the product at this moment.  But I suspect there are enough folks familiar with the site, and interested in the effect, that a year from now folks here will be comparing notes on their mods to the circuit.

[mth5044]

I think it's a pretty clever idea. The generosity from Tonepad has been great for a very, very long time. I can only imagine the amount of emails he's going to get from people bitching about it    They are not obligated to continue giving out free projects. There are also a ton of PT2399 circuits out there using more than 1 delay chip and a bunch of modulation options; you don't have to buy this project

WOW... this is one of those sad moments on the internet.
I've enjoyed Tonepad projects since,well, forever. And it sucks to see them take that path.

Then buy one! I'm pretty sure you won't be dissapointed and you'll help other DIY members, I guess?

[pappasmurfsharem]

Is he promoting this somewhere? I can't see anyone buying it without either demos or a schematic.

Right?!

I have no intention of dropping 17 bones on something I can't see or hear.

I understand your response, but:
a) it's not like Francisco has a track record of shipping lousy product that disappoints people; great layouts, great boards, solid projects
b) it's not like he hasn't been extremely generous to this community over the years
c) it's not like he's saying the layouts will never become available for total DIY-ers

He's simply trying to get a little something out of the project before making it completely available for folks to sidestep PCB purchase.  And while this is NOT any sort of comment on relative levels of generosity or business practices, you'll note that Madbean has some projects where a layout is provided for complete DIY-ers, some where you can buy a double-sided board, but a single-sided layout is made available, and some where the build documentation assumes you will buy the board and all that is shown is the parts layout.  

So, Francisco is not doing what nobody else tries to do; he's just putting his own little twist on it.  It might slow down uptake on the project, given that it relies on implicit trust of potential buyers in the product at this moment.  But I suspect there are enough folks familiar with the site, and interested in the effect, that a year from now folks here will be comparing notes on their mods to the circuit.

Oh I trust that its a great project, as are alot of his other ones.
It's not like your typical clone pedal where you know what you are getting.
I just want a sound clip or video and that MAY be in the works though. Who knows.

I'm all for him making something to justify his time as well and I don't mind the waiting to upload everything at once.

I just want a demo. With a demo it would probably be a much easier pill to swallow.

[bean]

He's simply trying to get a little something out of the project before making it completely available for folks to sidestep PCB purchase.  And while this is NOT any sort of comment on relative levels of generosity or business practices, you'll note that Madbean has some projects where a layout is provided for complete DIY-ers, some where you can buy a double-sided board, but a single-sided layout is made available, and some where the build documentation assumes you will buy the board and all that is shown is the parts layout.  

One small correction, Mark: pretty much all my projects have complete information. This includes layout showing trace routes, schematic, parts list, etc. I don't withhold anything but it's also true that not every project there has a single sided layout like you said. I don't mean to disparage Tonepad with that remark in any way...just tweak your statement a hair

[Mark Hammer]

I stand partially corrected, Brian.  The documents posted do show the information you indicate; they just don't all have printable toner-transfer patterns for both sides of the board the way that, say, MFOS provides them.  (Although, the double-sided patterns MFOS provides are fairly low res and often leave much to be desired.  I guess that's Ray Wilson's approach to encouraging board purchase.)

But I understand completely: if one depends on selling cows as a revenue stream, there's a limit to how many free milk-samples you can give before nobody is interested I buying cows any more!    And if no one had a reasonable business case for raising cows in the first place, we'd all have to go without milk.

respect.

[bean]

I stand partially corrected, Brian.  The documents posted do show the information you indicate; they just don't all have printable toner-transfer patterns for both sides of the board the way that, say, MFOS provides them.  (Although, the double-sided patterns MFOS provides are fairly low res and often leave much to be desired.  I guess that's Ray Wilson's approach to encouraging board purchase.)

But I understand completely: if one depends on selling cows as a revenue stream, there's a limit to how many free milk-samples you can give before nobody is interested I buying cows any more!    And if no one had a reasonable business case for raising cows in the first place, we'd all have to go without milk.

respect.

NP! As an aside, there will be a megaton of new single sided etching layouts uploaded in the coming months. Almost all of the old projects have been re-designed and there are many new ones, too. Over 150!~ Sorry for the derail. There's room for many cows in this pasture.

[knutolai]

Eagerly awaiting more info on this! Let's hope a demo is in the works.
Looks like its a 4 knob layout (?). Would have preferred a control-interface for clarification as most modulation delays have min. 5 knobs. Maybe it implements a "Sway" parameter similar to the DeVille echo?

[Mark Hammer]

I look forward to them!

or maybe I should say my various parts suppliers look forward to them!  

You must be dreaming layouts right about now.  I'll bet even the sexy dreams magically turn into "Hey, that looks like a great way to lay out the ground plane!".  

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

We've got the boards ordered and they will start shipping on the 31st of may. Thanks to the people who have bought it!

Here's a few of the main features of the circuit:
3x pt2399 in series for about 1.5sec delay.
LFO modulates all 3 pt2399
One knob controls all 3 pt2399
Rebote dry signal path and mixer/regen sections

Possible mods:
Parallel delay
delay treble cut knob
trails

The board is 3.4"x2.2" will fit the medium hammond box. (can't remember part no).

The project was developed back in 2011, I hadn't had a chance to upload it due to lack of time. Tonepad is 12 years old, and the past two years were invested in updating the  code it runs on to make it more solid against hackers (had issues with eastern europe and china). We've also formalized business aspects and logistics, along with a few new alliances that will help everybody get their tonepad boards.

We'll have a few Rebote3 project updates soon: my build pictures, sound samples, a teaser promo video (2011), parts list, schematic and finally a parts layout.
More soon!
Fp

[JebemMajke]

As far as I am concerned I think that it is ok that they are trying to earn some money before pushing this thing public.

We haven;t seen Zvex or others making a website with his schematics and/or complete projects.

This is an original design and not a schematic/board/project of a boss pedal. So, before they make it public they want to sell around 150 boards/kits ... that's cool.

[lars-musik]

Thanks to Francisco for a good opportunity to thank him and his team for the great layouts he shared over the last years. I started two years ago building pedals for my own use and would have never gotten so far without the tonepad layouts. Actually, they encouraged me to do my first etches as the documentation and the build reports on the site inspired enough confidence for a rookie.

So, although I don't really need a new delay, I am happy to spend these 23 Dollars (incl. shipment that's about 17 Euros in total for me) as my contribution to the tonepad site and as encouragement for Francisco to further layout such good pcbs. I see it rather as donation than a purchase.