Author Topic: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.  (Read 8547 times)

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digi2t

Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« on: June 24, 2014, 11:24:38 PM »
Found this on Ebay, with very little info on the net. On a positive note, great gut shot pictures. Negative note, missing some of the cap values (and wah pot too). Sent an email to the owner for more info, but no reply to date. He might not be interested in revealing the unknown. Anywho, here's the pics, and what I've drawn up as a schematic;











The two circuits are in series, fuzz first, wah after. Whatever components I don't have values for, I've marked with (?). I'm just guess here, using known circuit values. The tone section, I'm not too sure about, I'm not familiar with this layout. I've seen something similar in a Maestro fuzz schematic.

So, anyone feel like getting their inagaddadavida on with the breadboard on this one?
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

PRR

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2014, 01:54:25 AM »
Groovy man.

Friends just saw The Iron Butterfly Experience at a campground on the outskirts of Ventura. They believe they saw "former members". It's possible: apparently there have been 70 people played as "Iron Butterfly", not just Ingle Bushy Dorman and Braunn.

digi2t

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2014, 06:37:38 AM »
Groovy man.

Friends just saw The Iron Butterfly Experience at a campground on the outskirts of Ventura. They believe they saw "former members". It's possible: apparently there have been 70 people played as "Iron Butterfly", not just Ingle Bushy Dorman and Braunn.

Sounds a bit like like Steppenwolf history.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

Gus

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2014, 06:44:59 AM »
The Iron Butterfly label in the 2nd picture looks different on my monitor than the rest of the parts.  Could it be the lighting?

I don't remember when I first saw the green caps in the pictures.  Were they around in 71?
found this
http://stompboxaddict.blogspot.com/2010/11/iron-butterfly-fuzz-wah-pedal-1971.html

digi2t

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2014, 07:15:16 AM »
The Iron Butterfly label in the 2nd picture looks different on my monitor than the rest of the parts.  Could it be the lighting?

I don't remember when I first saw the green caps in the pictures.  Were they around in 71?
found this
http://stompboxaddict.blogspot.com/2010/11/iron-butterfly-fuzz-wah-pedal-1971.html

The one with the missing fuzz switch label is from the auction. The other one is one of the few net pics that I found. I added it strictly for informational purposes. All the other pics are from the auction unit.

 
EDIT: Just noticed an error on my drawing. The two 47K resistors on either side of the tone are 4.7K. I update that later today.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 09:00:52 AM by digi2t »
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

zombiwoof

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2014, 09:57:38 AM »
You know, most bands that only have one surviving member really don't sound the same, but I have to admit that having seen Steppenwolf in their heyday, the recent performances I have seen are still awesome, even with only John Kay left.  I think in their case, he is the main ingredient in their sound.  Really a great performer and songwriter, and doesn't seem to age much after all these years!.  I think he made a deal with the devil?.

Al


Groovy man.

Friends just saw The Iron Butterfly Experience at a campground on the outskirts of Ventura. They believe they saw "former members". It's possible: apparently there have been 70 people played as "Iron Butterfly", not just Ingle Bushy Dorman and Braunn.

Sounds a bit like like Steppenwolf history.

italianguy63

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 10:57:04 AM »
Quote
You know, most bands that only have one surviving member really don't sound the same

I think Lynyrd Skynyrd tours now with no surviving members.   :icon_biggrin:  Sorry.   :icon_redface:

(I know Gary R. is still with them, it was a joke people).
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:05:59 AM by italianguy63 »
The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated -- Mark Twain

digi2t

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 08:54:08 PM »
Here is the schematic with the two resistors corrected.



Might just throw this on the breadboard, for shits and grins.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

joegagan

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2014, 11:45:03 PM »
Quote
You know, most bands that only have one surviving member really don't sound the same

I think Lynyrd Skynyrd tours now with no surviving members.   :icon_biggrin:  Sorry.   :icon_redface:

(I know Gary R. is still with them, it was a joke people).

ha! dennis miller has a joke wherein he says the temptations on tour currently are all 5 foot tall asian people.
my life is a tribute to the the great men and women who held this country together when the world was in trouble. my debt cannot be repaid, but i will do my best.

LucifersTrip

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 12:00:39 AM »
Here is the schematic with the two resistors corrected.

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to do that. I saw that up there and let it slide...It looks like
they threw a tone control on a Fuzzrite....don't know if it's true, but I read numerous times that the Fuzzrite
was what Iron Butterfly used.

Btw, there are ZERO original members currently in the band....I believe the last time they had ANY original member
at all was around 15 years ago.

I totally lucked out and saw them in 87 or 88 when the In- A-Gadda lineup got back together for the last time.
They only did cuts from 1968 & 69 from Heavy, In- A-Gadda & Ball. It was a small bar in Harrisburg,
or possibly Pittsburgh. I'd love to track down a recording of that one.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 01:04:41 AM by LucifersTrip »
always think outside the box

digi2t

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 06:43:01 AM »
I breadboarded this last night. The tone control is kinda weird, it has a loss of volume when you're in the middle of the sweep. At the two extremes, the tone is either loud and deep, but not overly muffled, or loud and stinging, a la Inagada/Satisfaction.

The "dwell" control is interesting. At 0, it produces a nice gated note effect. Palm muted chicken picking gives you a sort of "banjo out of breath" type sound, for lack of a better description. The knarliest fuzz is around the middle of the dial, and sounds somewhat smoother towards 10.

All in all, with it set to treble, a rough fuzz on the dwell, and with a small practice amp blaring with a ton o'verb, it's hard not to play the Inagada hook, and not have a stupid smirk appear on your face.

Going to breadboard the wah section as well, and try them together. Should be interesting. It's just that tone section that bugs me, but I think my trace is correct. Maybe, since there is no volume, it acts as a combo control. Lower volume bass or treble tone in the middle, with either getting louder towards he extremities? :icon_question:
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

wavley

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 10:33:37 AM »
Quote
You know, most bands that only have one surviving member really don't sound the same

I think Lynyrd Skynyrd tours now with no surviving members.   :icon_biggrin:  Sorry.   :icon_redface:

(I know Gary R. is still with them, it was a joke people).

ha! dennis miller has a joke wherein he says the temptations on tour currently are all 5 foot tall asian people.

My old bass player when he joined our band was the then current touring bassist of The Platters... a 17 year old white surfer kid whose first instrument was french horn.  If I can remember correctly, he said the only original Platter left was one of the backup singers.  Miss that guy, dude was a human metronome.  The band moved to NYC, I stayed in Tampa, the band moved back to Tampa, he stayed in NYC and is now in Robbers On High Street and last I saw him he was touring as the bassist of Longwave.  Certainly the most productive music career out of the 5 folks in our band.
New and exciting innovations in current technology!

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agoldoor

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 02:35:54 PM »
Care to do a vero for this one...? *hint hint nudge nudge*

I breadboarded this last night. The tone control is kinda weird, it has a loss of volume when you're in the middle of the sweep. At the two extremes, the tone is either loud and deep, but not overly muffled, or loud and stinging, a la Inagada/Satisfaction.

The "dwell" control is interesting. At 0, it produces a nice gated note effect. Palm muted chicken picking gives you a sort of "banjo out of breath" type sound, for lack of a better description. The knarliest fuzz is around the middle of the dial, and sounds somewhat smoother towards 10.

All in all, with it set to treble, a rough fuzz on the dwell, and with a small practice amp blaring with a ton o'verb, it's hard not to play the Inagada hook, and not have a stupid smirk appear on your face.

Going to breadboard the wah section as well, and try them together. Should be interesting. It's just that tone section that bugs me, but I think my trace is correct. Maybe, since there is no volume, it acts as a combo control. Lower volume bass or treble tone in the middle, with either getting louder towards he extremities? :icon_question:

Govmnt_Lacky

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2014, 02:50:44 PM »
I love how the inductor winding is "unwound" in order to make the connections to the turrets.  :o
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digi2t

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2014, 08:55:33 PM »
Care to do a vero for this one...? *hint hint nudge nudge*

I breadboarded this last night. The tone control is kinda weird, it has a loss of volume when you're in the middle of the sweep. At the two extremes, the tone is either loud and deep, but not overly muffled, or loud and stinging, a la Inagada/Satisfaction.

The "dwell" control is interesting. At 0, it produces a nice gated note effect. Palm muted chicken picking gives you a sort of "banjo out of breath" type sound, for lack of a better description. The knarliest fuzz is around the middle of the dial, and sounds somewhat smoother towards 10.

All in all, with it set to treble, a rough fuzz on the dwell, and with a small practice amp blaring with a ton o'verb, it's hard not to play the Inagada hook, and not have a stupid smirk appear on your face.

Going to breadboard the wah section as well, and try them together. Should be interesting. It's just that tone section that bugs me, but I think my trace is correct. Maybe, since there is no volume, it acts as a combo control. Lower volume bass or treble tone in the middle, with either getting louder towards he extremities? :icon_question:

Yup, no problemo. Gimme some time, and I'll get it out.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

digi2t

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2014, 10:37:02 PM »
Here's my first crack. Going to bed now, so I haven't really looked it over. If anybody spots any booboos, let me know.



The inductor in the image is based on the size of an inductor I found in the Crybaby.

It's not too big, but I might be able to squeeze it a bit tighter. I'll look at it again tomorrow.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

PRR

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2014, 10:47:31 PM »
> tone control is kinda weird, it has a loss of volume when you're in the middle of the sweep.

With 50K side-legs, and ~~1Meg amp loading, a 1 Meg Lin pot seems high.

If there's a 100K within reach, try that.

Electron Tornado

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2014, 12:19:22 AM »
I breadboarded this last night. The tone control is kinda weird, it has a loss of volume when you're in the middle of the sweep. At the two extremes, the tone is either loud and deep, but not overly muffled, or loud and stinging, a la Inagada/Satisfaction.


I built a Fuzzrite clone a while ago. That's how that particular control works.
OK, where's the data?

"Top hole. Bally Jerry pranged his kite right in the how's your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie."

LucifersTrip

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2014, 12:36:38 AM »
I breadboarded this last night. The tone control is kinda weird, it has a loss of volume when you're in the middle of the sweep. At the two extremes, the tone is either loud and deep, but not overly muffled, or loud and stinging, a la Inagada/Satisfaction.


I built a Fuzzrite clone a while ago. That's how that particular control works.

yep...for Fuzzrite topology I prefer the 500K/350K vol/tone combo of the ge version or the 250K/200K combo of the ge Orpheum,
which don't suffer from that middle dropout
always think outside the box

Electron Tornado

Re: Iron Butterfly fuzz wah.
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2014, 03:27:31 AM »
yep...for Fuzzrite topology I prefer the 500K/350K vol/tone combo of the ge version or the 250K/200K combo of the ge Orpheum,
which don't suffer from that middle dropout

I used a 350k pot. There is a volume drop in the middle so I added a one transistor amplifier on the end. It looks like the schematic for the fuzz section in this pedal doesn't show the 22k resistor to ground that creates a high pass filter. I'd have to look at a Fuzzrite schematic to see where that resistor goes.
OK, where's the data?

"Top hole. Bally Jerry pranged his kite right in the how's your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie."