Author Topic: Animato - A tale of degooping  (Read 20312 times)

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Crowella

Animato - A tale of degooping
« on: October 08, 2014, 10:13:51 PM »
I'm clearly going to put this at the top because I assume it's the part of most interest.

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Animato Schematic.


Latest:
Last modified 10/10/2014. Not Confirmed
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtEY1A1NG91dWRpbkU/view?usp=sharing
1.06

Previous versions:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtES0pKbDRVWXpYTTQ/view?usp=sharing
http://i.imgur.com/4z0kWc7.png - Changed Q4 to a NTE103 to make a germanium compound pair, after some discussion on here and elsewhere.
http://i.imgur.com/lbVGPUO.png - Changed Q4 to a NTE128 after more careful observation
http://i.imgur.com/iNMxHb0.png - Original, not confirmed, will not work either (see above)

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For the schematic, pictures and details on how I've gone about this, click below
http://imgur.com/a/zLnM9

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Hi guys, been a long, long time since I posted here.

If you are a Muse fan boy, you may either want to pay close attention or look away in pain. :lol:

I managed to secure myself an Animato. Just going on record to say it's horrible with guitar but on bass with an LS-2, I can understand why it is sought after. :cool: Very nice sounding distortion without the need to go crazy with the knobs on it.

So after spending >$520 on it and after successfully trying it out at full volume band practice, what do I do? Start taking it apart to see what makes it tick.

To save the effort of updating this everywhere, I'll link to my imgur album and let you guys know when I update it. Hopefully I can try and explain some of the things along the way.

I'm posting here because I've hit the point where I need everyone's collective experience to help confirm/correct the schematics. I won't be building it for another week or so while I wait for parts to arrive but naturally I'm a bit curious about some things, such as the NTE102's. I also don't have complete knowledge when it comes to whether it's a derivative of some other pedals (Proco Rat?) or what not.

If you have any questions, please ask. I want to learn from this experience too so if you notice I'm goofing up, please let me know. Maybe someone can knock this up quicker than I can but it's going to be difficult to tell if it will sound identical since there aren't many of these kicking around.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:16:40 PM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

Greenmachine

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2014, 11:08:46 PM »
I really enjoyed that.  Thanks for posting.  Looking forward to hearing what others think this is.

R.G.

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 11:20:37 PM »
It's a big muff variant after the first two transistors.

I don't recognize the circuit for the first two transistors (Q4 and Q5 in the schemo, I think), but it seems vaguely familiar. I'd have to do some analysis or simulate it to do more than that.

Odd booster in front of a big muff pi clipper/amplifier.
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 11:23:43 PM »
RG coming to the rescue!  ;D Thanks to both you and Greenmachine so far.  :)

I had a vague feeling that I had seen something similar to a BMP in there. That booster is indeed odd.  ???

Should also explain, I am not sure of the accuracy of Q4. I saw NTE10_, so I assumed but it could even be an NTE103.  :icon_question: I'm not going to risk taking them out to get hFE readings either.  :o

EDIT: NTE128?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 02:20:42 AM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

N9

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 04:02:13 AM »
Hmm, that input stage looks an awful lot like a strangely biased Compound Pair, but Q4 would need to be NPN for that...

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 04:14:46 AM »
I was discussing with another Animato owner. We've agreed its a NTE102/NTE103 pairing. That would make the PNP/NPN pairing required for it to work.
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

Thecomedian

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 04:15:17 AM »
In response to N9, NTE128's are NPN's. The schematic is wrong if its really a NTE128. 102/103 Would also make sense.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:50:20 PM by Thecomedian »
If I can solve the problem for someone else, I've learned valuable skill and information that pays me back for helping someone else.

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 04:30:45 AM »
I'm aware the schematic is wrong. Sadly ran out the door to work and realised I have a bit to edit.  :icon_mad:

My guess for the 128 is based off what I could visually see. The 103 is selected from a recommended complementary pairing.

If I can't figure it out, I can do trial and error.

EDIT: Schematic fixed to be a NTE102/NTE103 pair. I double checked the connections and they are all correct based on the board in front of me. I'll work on duplicating the board PCB's shortly.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 06:33:51 AM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

digi2t

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 06:32:32 AM »
WOW!! This one has intrigued me in the past. Keep up the good work man!
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

SISKO

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 07:46:01 AM »
Great! A Muse fan here!!
Im glad to know its a BMP variant, its been a lot of mistery around this pedal.
One thing i noticed is that the schematic calls for GainA and GainB knobs, but IIRC, the animato only had 3knobs (G,V,T)

Keep it up!

-----------------------------------------------------

Edit: after seeing the photos, its a dual gang pot
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:49:43 AM by SISKO »
--Is there any body out there??--

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 07:47:54 AM »
Thanks guys :) It killed all the speculation about it being a Proco Rat clone. I didn't actually expect BMP either but here we are.  :icon_razz: The board PCB's are taking a while. Going to try and keep it to the original specs as much as possible for clarity sake but I'm hating the layout.  :icon_confused:

@SISKO, it's a dual gang, 100k Audio pot.  ;)
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

SISKO

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 07:51:55 AM »
It killed all the speculation about it being a Proco Rat clone.

Yeahh!!

@SISKO, it's a dual gang, 100k Audio pot.  ;)

Yes, i was so excited replying, that didnt see it  :P
--Is there any body out there??--

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 07:57:36 AM »
A user by the name of Don'tPostThePear at the Muse forum boards did a sim of the bizarre first stage.

http://imgur.com/a/sgWgS

Yeah... I can understand the treble nature of this pedal.  :icon_lol:

EDIT: Uploaded a PDF with info and PCB:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Lx-E88bAtES0pKbDRVWXpYTTQ/view?usp=sharing - Converted to PDF. Added PCB's based off existing.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 10:32:52 AM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 07:26:10 PM »
I noticed an error in the PCB's where I didn't label a resistor next to R25. The unlabelled resistor should be R24.  :)

EDIT: I think when I come to breadboard the schematic, I might drop in a 2N3904/2N3906 pairing to see how it sounds. Otherwise, it's going to take too long to see whether it works and I honestly think the tone difference isn't going to be astronomical when you consider what else it has to be pumped through.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:55:41 PM by Crowella »
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

R.G.

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 09:14:02 PM »
Did some sim. The frequency response doesn't tell much. The first three transistors, switches and pots are an idiosyncratic way of introducing a variable amount of octave and (probably) some feedback to make the voicing peaky. Switch flips between different amounts and smoothnesses of octave.
R.G.

Quick IQ Test: If anyone in a governmental position suspected that YOU had top-secret information on YOUR computer, how many minutes would you remain outside a jail cell?

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2014, 09:18:00 PM »
Ah! After doing a bit of reading on Geofex yesterday, I thought that it was an octave effect being pushed through/affected when the switch is triggered. Thank you very much.
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

aron

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2014, 09:35:08 PM »
Gotta love that Big Muff circuit!

Crowella

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2014, 10:32:56 PM »
Yep! It's a blessing that circuit. Even to this day, still can rebrand it and sell it on.  ;)

Updated the schematic and PCB PDF file to revision 1.06. Thanks for all the support and help.  ;D
Rhythm in jump, dancing close to you

digi2t

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2014, 12:03:47 AM »
Yep! It's a blessing that circuit. Even to this day, still can rebrand it and sell it on.  ;)

Updated the schematic and PCB PDF file to revision 1.06. Thanks for all the support and help.  ;D

I'm still seeing 1.05.
"No matter how many times I cut it.... it's STILL too short!!

Asian Icemen rise again...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=903467

Ibanezsr500

Re: Animato - A tale of degooping
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2014, 02:23:09 AM »
Sub'd

-Jordan.