Orande Squeezer - DIY - debugging

[Elijah-Baley]

Specify: I used metal film resistor, film caps (from Tayda, 45nF grey, and 2n2 white). And electrolytic following the layout. 

[rizziol]

I used the same you did. Sorry but i have no clue why yours cut the treble!

[Elijah-Baley]

Ok, don't worry! 
I'll try it on the breadboard (this time I'm really going to buy, promise ). I could discover some mistake.

[italianguy63]

Did anyone notice Paul's knob goes to "11?"   

[midwayfair]

I doubt you built it incorrectly. The effect dulls some treble when it's compressing. You can adjsut the trimpot to compress less and you might get more treble, but that's because it's compressing less.

Like I said, basically ALL compressors dull the treble some.

You can increase the 1.5K a little bit to lengthen the attack, but you'll lose some compression.

[Elijah-Baley]

Ok. 
I tried to adjust the trimpot starting from distortion until the sound come out clean and noiseless. Next time I'll try to adjust the trimpot starting from the no sound position. In this way will l have less compression? And maybe a little more treble, I wish.
I'll consider the increasing of the 1.5k resistor, too.

Thank you for the info!

[PRR]

> Did anyone notice Paul's knob

duck_arse: the demon that goes up to 11 is a different matter

[GGBB]

I'm a bit late to this thread but I hope this helps anyway.

In the Orange Squeeze ultramod by GGBB I got he used a swtc for a bright pot control. Right?

SWTC-2 to be specific. http://www.muzique.com/lab/swtc.htm

I'm reading that big wonderful guide, but i'm trying to understand how get just a simple always bright mod.

On a stock Squeezer, you can add a bright control by inserting a 10k pot in series before the output level pot, and connecting a 0.010u cap between lugs 1 & 2.  That is exactly how the Smoothie does it, except for the fact that it also replaces the 10k level pot with a 10k resistor (volume control moved elsewhere). 

If you want a non-adjustable "always-bright" version, just use a 10k trimpot and the cap and leave it inside the pedal.

[Elijah-Baley]

Thank you very much, GGBB! Great helping! 
I can make some testing later.

[Elijah-Baley]

I'm back for a clarification. 
I would use an internal trimpot as a fixed bright control.
I did this board:



Should I solder the pin 3 of the trimmer in G2? And to solder the cap between the two other pins?
Eventually, if it is easier, could I solder the pin 3 of the trimmer in G1 and the wire of the pot in G2?

Thanks a lot! 

[GGBB]

Should I solder the pin 3 of the trimmer in G2? And to solder the cap between the two other pins?

Yes.

Eventually, if it is easier, could I solder the pin 3 of the trimmer in G1 and the wire of the pot in G2?

That won't work. The trimmer must be in series before the level pot.  So connect pin 1 of the trimmer to pin 3 of the level pot.


Also, note that this will reduce your max volume a bit, so if the drop is too much, try a lower trimmer with a higher cap such as 1k and 0.1u.

[Elijah-Baley]

Ok, it seems perfect!
Thanks a lot.

One day, I dunno when, I'll try it. 

[Elijah-Baley]

Should I solder the pin 3 of the trimmer in G2? And to solder the cap between the two other pins?

Yes.

After a long time I'm gonna modify my Orange Squeezer.

I would like avoid the treble cutting of the compression and I tried to add this sort of filter or whatever, but it seems to me doesn't make any effext at all.

I used a 10k trimpot and a 0.01uF cap.
I don't know if somebody has confused something, by the way, I soldered the pin 3 of the trimpot with a wire in G2, (look the layout). And the cap on the other pins of the trimmer. No effect.
Do I wrong?

Thanks!

[GGBB]

I used a 10k trimpot and a 0.01uF cap.
I don't know if somebody has confused something, by the way, I soldered the pin 3 of the trimpot with a wire in G2, (look the layout). And the cap on the other pins of the trimmer. No effect.
Do I wrong?

That is correct, but you also need to disconnect Level 3 from the board and connect it to pin 1 of the trimpot. Level 2 and 1 stay the same - output and ground. If the effect is too subtle, use a bigger cap like .022 or .047.

[LightSoundGeometry]

That's why it's a trimpot and not outside!

Indeed, trimpot is the best solution. 

"Attack" in a compressor refers to how quickly it starts compressing. Is that what you're asking about? Or do you want more effect/more compression?

Of course it is hard to explain. I never had a compressor.
In practice, I'm asking if this circuit could raise the volume of the notes play softly, and have all notes at the same volume. I meant this, I hope I explained well enough  .

yeop, thats exactly what a compressor does. it increases quiet noises and decreases loud noises to equal same noisiness, gives sort of a splatted or squashed sound. I think the graphite parts have that same sound, thats what I initial thought when I went from steel - some how in the whole physics of this a byproduct is some sustain

[tubegeek]

yeop, thats exactly what a compressor does. it increases quiet noises and decreases loud noises to equal same noisiness, gives sort of a splatted or squashed sound.

True enough as far as it goes BUT hope I can clarify HOW this works just a bit.

Inside a compressor is a circuit called a level detector. This is connected to a gain reduction circuit.

Imagine a little engineer with his thumb on the fader as a recording being made. (That's why Merlin called his compressor "Engineer's Thumb.") When the sound gets too loud, he lowers the level of the recording, and when that adjustment is no longer necessary, he goes back to his normal level.

"level detector" = engineer, listening.
"gain reduction" = dropping the fader.
how fast the engineer reacts = attack time
how much loud is too loud = threshold
how much the level is dropped = ratio
how soon the level returns to normal = release time

If you use a compressor, you will inevitably have a lower level coming out of this process than you started with, since all you are doing is cutting "too loud" sounds.
Most compressors will allow an adjustment for this, called "make up gain."
After all is said and done, the "too loud" sections are reined in, and the "normal" level is raised as part of the make up gain processing.

Final result: "too loud" is never too loud, "quiet" is louder than it started out, and "normal" is also louder than it started out.

I think the graphite parts have that same sound, thats what I initial thought when I went from steel - some how in the whole physics of this a byproduct is some sustain

So the physics part is this: a harder material in your instrument will damp its vibrations less. Result: notes last longer, fade slower = sustain.

A compressor as it returns from gain reduction to normal during decaying notes (during the release time) will in effect be raising the level as the note fades. This also sounds like sustain.

Finally, the reason a compressor sounds like it reduces treble is because it is "catching" loud attacks, and when these are reduced, the impression we hear is that the treble has been reduced.

Psychoacoustics!

[LightSoundGeometry]

yeop, thats exactly what a compressor does. it increases quiet noises and decreases loud noises to equal same noisiness, gives sort of a splatted or squashed sound.

True enough as far as it goes BUT hope I can clarify HOW this works just a bit.

Inside a compressor is a circuit called a level detector. This is connected to a gain reduction circuit.

Imagine a little engineer with his thumb on the fader as a recording being made. (That's why Merlin called his compressor "Engineer's Thumb.") When the sound gets too loud, he lowers the level of the recording, and when that adjustment is no longer necessary, he goes back to his normal level.

"level detector" = engineer, listening.
"gain reduction" = dropping the fader.
how fast the engineer reacts = attack time
how much loud is too loud = threshold
how much the level is dropped = ratio
how soon the level returns to normal = release time

If you use a compressor, you will inevitably have a lower level coming out of this process than you started with, since all you are doing is cutting "too loud" sounds.
Most compressors will allow an adjustment for this, called "make up gain."
After all is said and done, the "too loud" sections are reined in, and the "normal" level is raised as part of the make up gain processing.

Final result: "too loud" is never too loud, "quiet" is louder than it started out, and "normal" is also louder than it started out.

I think the graphite parts have that same sound, thats what I initial thought when I went from steel - some how in the whole physics of this a byproduct is some sustain

So the physics part is this: a harder material in your instrument will damp its vibrations less. Result: notes last longer, fade slower = sustain.

A compressor as it returns from gain reduction to normal during decaying notes (during the release time) will in effect be raising the level as the note fades. This also sounds like sustain.

Finally, the reason a compressor sounds like it reduces treble is because it is "catching" loud attacks, and when these are reduced, the impression we hear is that the treble has been reduced.

Psychoacoustics!

good stuff!

Speaking of the Orange Squeezer, I just ordered a Kent Armstrong humbucker and single coil pup for my strat. cant wait to install them and hear what tone they produce.

[Kipper4]

Psychoacoustics
Love it.
Helps us understand a little better about hearing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

It's worth looking up fletcher Munson and Doppler effect if this is your bag.
Rich

[Elijah-Baley]

I used a 10k trimpot and a 0.01uF cap.
I don't know if somebody has confused something, by the way, I soldered the pin 3 of the trimpot with a wire in G2, (look the layout). And the cap on the other pins of the trimmer. No effect.
Do I wrong?

That is correct, but you also need to disconnect Level 3 from the board and connect it to pin 1 of the trimpot. Level 2 and 1 stay the same - output and ground. If the effect is too subtle, use a bigger cap like .022 or .047.

Thank you, I corrected the connections.
This "tone control" works, maybe is too subtle, but it could be good.
If I wanna do something good I should do other tests, I could add in the end a pot.
Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAaSVyqY1c

When I'll add the footswitch I can compare the effect and the bypass easily, and set these two trimpots.

Thank to all for the work.
I let you know my progress and share it.

[GGBB]

Thank you, I corrected the connections.
This "tone control" works, maybe is too subtle, but it could be good.

Glad you got it working. In my experience with the Orange Smoothie, subtle is good for this tone control. I had originally used a 33nF cap but found that boosted the mids a little and caused a tone shift that didn't sound "transparent" - changing to 10nF made it far more natural sounding. IMO it shouldn't work like a treble control that lets you change the signal to be extra bright if you wanted, it should just be able to give you back the top end sparkle that the compression takes out. So subtle is good, but you can always increase the effect by using a larger capacitor.