Orande Squeezer - DIY - debugging

[midwayfair]

In practice, I'm asking if this circuit could raise the volume of the notes play softly, and have all notes at the same volume. I meant this, I hope I explained well enough  .

Okay. You want more compression.

-On the right of IC1 in that layout, there is a 10K resistor. Replace it with a 4.7K (more) or 2.2K (a lot more) resistor. This increases the gain and will make the signal bigger, which in turn will eventually increase the compression. (Increases the ratio.)
-AND/OR there is a 470K just next to the left side of the op amp. Decrease it to 220K, 100K, or 47K. (Decreases the threshold.)
-AND/OR there is a 100K resistor just to the right of the op amp. Increase it to 220K, 470K, or even as much as 1M. (Increases the decay/turn-off time.)

There will never be a situation where all notes are exactly the same volume. Compressors don't work like that in real life.

If any one of these solutions doesn't do what you want, it's time to consider building a different compressor. The orange squeezer is made to do one thing well; it's not a swiss army knife and you will be disappointed if you try to make it do too much.

[Elijah-Baley]

Thank you very much! 

"There will never be a situation where all notes are exactly the same volume. Compressors don't work like that in real life"

Of course not.

Orange Squeeze is still one of my first circuits and I choice it because was simple and it wasn't an overdrive/distortion.  If you wanna build some simple circuit you find tons of overdrive/distortion.

[Elijah-Baley]

Sorry for two post.
I'm trying to understand how compressor works, and what means and do exaclty treshold, decay, ratio and similar stuff.
It seems stupid, I know, but I began to build pedal for fun, so I don't really need some pedals I building, but I want to hear and try them.

I would like ask some more.
About the upper trick mod:
I built it with this layout: http://www.sabrotone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Orange-Squeezer.gif

- 10k / R8:
Replaceble with a 4,7k. Increase the ratio, the compression. Increase the gain. No distortion, right?
- 470k / R3 (if I am not wrong):
Replaceble with: 220k: Decrease the treshold. I really can't understand what it is for?
-100k / R7:
Replaceble with 220k: Increase the decay. A sort of sustain?

Could I have more bright sound from this peadal? Seems I lose some treble. I dislike it. Should I replace 47nF / C1 with a 22nF or lower?

[duck_arse]

more to read, then you'll know all there is to know:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=33510.0

[Elijah-Baley]

Thanks bro! 

I found some topic here, but not that. Thank you R.G.! 
I decided a thing:

The orange squeezer is made to do one thing well; it's not a swiss army knife and you will be disappointed if you try to make it do too much.

I'm going to have this circuit so like it is for the moment, about the compression. I wish soon I'll buy a breadboard, and I'll try to get it a little less brightless, later.

[midwayfair]

^^ Yes, read RG's post in that thread!

No distortion, right?

I didn't find it noticeable until I got below 2.2K. However, before the compression starts working (a few milliseconds), there is bound to be some distortion even in the stock build.

Could I have more bright sound from this peadal? Seems I lose some treble. I dislike it. Should I replace 47nF / C1 with a 22nF or lower?

You would probably need to reduce it to about 4.7nF before you heard much of a difference. That will just cut some bass, though, not increase the treble. Compression tends to dull treble, and it's also part of the "sound" of this particular compressor. However, you can increase the length of the attack (turn-on time; controlled by the the 1.5K resistor) to keep the treble from being compressed as much, and you could solder, say, a 470pF capacitor across the 82K resistor (R6 in Harold Sabro's layout you linked to). You would have to experiment to get a sound you really like.

Decrease the treshold. I really can't understand what it is for?

Threshold is how big the signal has to be to make the compressor work.

Increase the decay. A sort of sustain?

Yes, sort of, but keep in mind that a compressor does not actually increase the sustain of a note. It reduces the amplitude of larger signals to make the volume more consistent. Decay is also called "release." It's the time for the compressor to continue working. It happens because a capacitor holds a charge after the signal is rectified (by the germanium diode in the Orange Squeezer) for a certain period of time. The stock orange squeezer is 4.7uF * 100K = 470mS (microfarrads * kiloOhms = milliseconds). If you increase the 100K to 220K, it will be 1.03 seconds, or twice as long.

Dense reading, but if you want a really detailed explanation, you'll have to read about how envelope circuits work: This paper on Geofex is about envelope filters, but everything about the envelope/rectifier is applicable to the envelopes in compressors as well.

[duck_arse]

No distortion, right?

I didn't find it noticeable until I got below 2.2K. However, before the compression starts working (a few milliseconds), there is bound to be some distortion even in the stock build.

interesting. seems the horrible -crack- on the pick attack of my build is the norm ....


there is no circuit Mark Hammer hasn't had a go at, the orange squeezer is no exception. I have a local copy of a circuit mark modded and added a "bright control" to (and used the maddening other half opamp), but I can't find a working link in the wild.

[midwayfair]

No distortion, right?

I didn't find it noticeable until I got below 2.2K. However, before the compression starts working (a few milliseconds), there is bound to be some distortion even in the stock build.

interesting. seems the horrible -crack- on the pick attack of my build is the norm ....


there is no circuit Mark Hammer hasn't had a go at, the orange squeezer is no exception. I have a local copy of a circuit mark modded and added a "bright control" to (and used the maddening other half opamp), but I can't find a working link in the wild.

GGBB's orange smoothie? http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=105342.0

[Elijah-Baley]

I'm reading that big wonderful guide, but i'm trying to understand how get just a simple always bright mod.
I think to low C1 is a little useless, if it works like you said, midwayfair.
I hear no just a slightly dull sound, but an important cutting of the treble.
Indeed, now I'm thinking about that 1.5k resistor. And about that 470pF across 82k - R6. What I should do exactly with my layout?
Considering all this I have now to test it, again.

[PRR]

> understand how compressor works, and what means ... threshold, decay, ratio

Electronics are mind-bending at best. Leave the electronics out.

Say I capture a small demon. I bind him to do what I ask.

I command "Hear me and obey! If this meter needle goes over this mark, turn-down this volume control."



After the first bar, I realize that if he just turns-down, the music gets softer on every loud transient. So I add this instruction.

"If the meter is below the mark, turn-up."

"Threshold" is the mark on the meter. The signal level which I do not want to exceed.

"Attack": the demon is not infinitely fast; or if he were, the signal would be distorted by the instant turn-down. We want to turn-down not-too-fast. Depending on situation, 1/100 to 1/10 of a second (or more or less).

"Release": if the demon turns-up instantly when the needle falls below the mark, speech/music dynamics are squashed and it sounds bad. Release is usually more gradual than attack. 1/10 to 1 second.

"Ratio": do we want all "over the mark" segments to come out the SAME level? Or do we want slightly loud parts slightly loud and LOUD parts louder than slightly loud (but not as loud as they would be)? Usually we want some dynamic above the threshold. "4:1 ratio" suggests that 12 dB over (4X as loud) will come out 3dB over (1.5X as loud). But note that the ratio-numbers on fancy limiters are often very approximate.

In radio broadcasting, we need a loud signal, but if it overloads the transmitter there is trouble. We manually get the level pretty loud but hopefully not over. Then someone shouts, or drops a cymbal, or takes the solo twice as loud as in rehearsal. The limiter can be set to turn-down these accidents, faster than a human engineer's thumb.

In guitar the main use is to level-out the long fade of a plucked string, so it "sustains" like an organ. We set the threshold somewhat below the amplifier's maximum output, then SLAM the limiter's input with a BIG signal. The big pluck is turned-down to just about what the amp will do clean. As the pluck-string tone fades out, the demon turns-up, so level stays nearly constant. This can't go on forever (demon can't bring-up the note you plucked yesterday); after a few seconds the string tone has faded below the universal hiss. But a careful choice of input level, threshold, attack, and release does gives a smooth semi-steady tone, and brings out the overtone changes of a fading string.

[Elijah-Baley]

Amazing! 

Where I can find one of that demons? 

Thank you!

[duck_arse]

EB - finding the demon is no problem. finding the demon that goes up to 11 is a different matter. the only one of those that PRR doesn't have sits on RG's shoulder, prodding him.

midway - kinda, but no. all the broke links point to ggg. my copy says "orange squeezer compressor with variable compression/gain higher out lev and brightness compensation" (2003). mark's second stage is diff to the smoothie.

[Elijah-Baley]

Re-tested the circuit. Ok, I can hear the compression, and it seems have a better attack effect with my ultracheapy stratocaster copy, with single coils. But the weakness is the losing brightness  . I understood, that is connected with the compression, but hearing some demos on youtube I can't notice it so much as mine OS. 

Will be change something if I replace IC or transistor? I have a NE5532. And I have a 2N5458 (a wrong order. I wanted 2N5484 or 2N5485) I have an MPF102 and J201. Probably not changing, but I can't find so much about this "problem". That is a natural collateral effect in some compressor, but nobody talk about it with Orange Squeezer.

In the Orange Squeeze ultramod by GGBB I got he used a swtc for a bright pot control. Right?

And about that 470pF across 82k - R6. What I should do exactly with my layout?

Thank you!

[rizziol]

I was embarassed to expose this here but i think many newbies like me will benefit from this information!
One of the things that wasn´t letting my pedal work, despite of the wires that were unsolder/cold-soldered, was the fact that i used two k246 instead of 2n5457(which i couldn´t find easily here in Brazil). They are equivalent but the pins have a different configuration!!!! the 2n5457 is 1Drain  2Source 3Gate while  the k246 is  1Source 2Gate 3 Drain... so it wasn´t working at all! Then i bought some mpf102´s and my problem was solve..... tiny detail, huge headache!!

[Tony Forestiere]

"Paul's Demon" 

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8c/c7/54/8cc75486360098746009cd2eeb20bbc1.jpg

[Elijah-Baley]

[...] Then i bought some mpf102´s and my problem was solve..... tiny detail, huge headache!!

Can you tell me if you hear losing high frequency from this circuit like me? 

[rizziol]

Hey Elijah!

I ´ve tried it of box and i didn´t quite grounded it yet, so it was still with that hiss that comes with non-grounded circuits. I was just adjusting my pot to the correct amount of compression. So i couldn´t quite listen to the sound fully clean and quiet. But for what i heard, there wasn´t a loss on treble. I will enclose it today and then i will test it again and tell you. I´ll try to record some tunes and send you for to take your own conclusions! 

[Elijah-Baley]

Thanks! 
I tested it out of the box, jack not soldered and exluding the footswitch, as usually for me. I hear no hiss. I adjust the trimmer until the hiss and buzz fade away. But I lose treble in any case.

What you say? Do you want make an exchange? 

[Elijah-Baley]

Updating:
Replacing on my orange squeezer.

Some testing with IC NE5532, transistor J201 and 2n5758, diode 1N60P.
Nothing! The sound is the same, I lost part of my treble. Playing without the orange squeezer the sound is richer, and for me is better play without it.

Off Topic:
I tested my new Brian May TREBLE Booster and I found it... awesome! Can you imagine? 

[rizziol]

Hey Elijah,
I´m a big newbie on this! I don´t have a clue how to modify the sound to achieve more treble! Maybe is the kind  of components you´ve used?!