EH Big Muff Pi.....which one??

[plexi12000]

hey-   i was thinking about building one.  Never had one or even heard one.  it appears that there are quite a few "versions" that were made over the years.

can anyone just provide a real short run down?  like the most popular.... "best" version.... favorite, etc.,etc.  i have no idea really which one to go with.  thanks!!

[Quackzed]

according to this site, the triangle is the most popular, though it mentions variations between several triangle muffs, most muffs actually seem to be built with different values here and there, so theres no 1 correct version...
http://www.kitrae.net/music/music_big_muff_tone_differences.html

[antonis]

It definately depends on your equipment (guitar, amp, other involved effects) and your "taste"...

From experience (I've build all versions except Op-Amp one) they sound allmost the same (with a medium guitar and a relatively cheap solid state amp) even with various BJT and clipping modifications...

You better build whatever version you find convenient and "play" a little with tonestack values...

[duck_arse]

thanks for that link, quackz, I hadn't seen that page before. I'm looking for a version to smd (with the parts I've got).

[Mark Hammer]

In an interview Mike Matthews did for a business mag several years back, he siad that if you had taken 4 consecutive BMPs off the line in the 70's, no two would sound alike.  I think we can safely assume that, during the past 30 years, the consistency in the components has improved, and EHX buys them in large-enough batches that the cap used in 1987 is not appreciably different from the cap used in that came position in 2007 (barring redesigns).

That said, consider the Kitrae schematics posted as essentially guides to what parameters have been played with, and warrant tinkering with, rather than a recipe that must be meticulously followed to achieve a specific result.  For its first dozen years or maybe more, there WAS no specific result; merely a constellation of roughly similar results that all had their special charm.

[Les Paul Lover]

thanks for that link, quackz, I hadn't seen that page before. I'm looking for a version to smd (with the parts I've got).

If you hadn't seen this before, make sure you visit that page - lots of schems for all muffs and some of their clones. Really really good.

http://www.bigmuffpage.com/Big_Muff_Pi_versions_schematics_part1.html





For the OP, I've had a swollen pickle - great pedal but didn't like th over scooped tone much. I've just built a rams head clone that I really like, though it has a few changes including the tonestack. I don't like the mid scoop much, so I change the value to obtan a nice little mid hump instead. Works really well.

[roseblood11]

I built a version that was described by mictester at the forbidden forum. He said that he built it as a custom version for The Edge / U2.
These were the changes, starting from the "Large Beaver" schematic at Buildyourownclone.com
http://byocelectronics.com/beaverinstructions.pdf
Large Beaver Parts List

R1 -3.3k
R2 - 1M
R3 - 390K
R4 - 82k
R5 - 22K
R6 - 820R
R7 - 1K
R8 - 8.2K
R9 - 390K
R10 - 12K -> 22K
R11 - 150R -> 470R
R12 - 8.2K
R13 - 82K
R14 - 390K
R15 - 22K
R16 - 820R -> 470R
R17 - 39K
R18 - 39K
R19 - 390K
R20 - 100K
R21 - 12K
R22 - 2.7K
R23 - 4.7K

VR1 - A100K Sustain 1nF treble bleed cap...
VR2 - B100K Tone
VR3 - A100K Level

Q1 thru Q4 - 2N5088

D1 thru D4 - 1N914

C1 - .1uf -> .22uF
C2 - .1uf -> .22uF
C3 - .1uf -> .22uF
C4 - 560pf
C5 - .05uf
C6 - .1uf -> .22uF
C7 - 560pf
C8 - .05uf
C9 - .0039uf
C10 - .01uf
C11 - .1uf -> .22uF
C12 - .1uf -> .22uF

I also added the rotary switch from the "Large Beaver", which makes it a very versatile pedal.


If that's too complex, I'd add a simple tone stack bypass switch, as described here:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/tbypass.htm

regards, Immo

[plexi12000]

Awesome--- thanks for the input gentlemen.   i've been looking around online and stuff-- trying to laern something about each "era" if you want to call it that.  they do seem rather similar, more or less.

Boy....they made those early enclosures as cheap as possible, didnt they?? hahaha  but its the guts that matter right?

I build all my amps.  i despise SS amps- lol    i know.....some of them actually do sound very good, and i've had quite a few over the years....but there is something just..."organic" with tube amps. Yum!! -lol

---i dont know why they call the one era, the "civil war" era.  i think it's more maybe...."wild west"?  too late now...C.W. has stuck!

Thanks for posting the links, as well. 

[digi2t]

I have to agree with what's been said insofar as tinkering with the circuit is concerned. Before I built my first one, I inventoried all the different values used throughout the circuit on paper (a Kit Rae schematic actually), from Triangle, Ram's Head, and Russian models. Start by building one circuit on the breadboard, and using your favorite guitar and amp combo, tinker with the values throughout the circuit. With time, you'll start to "hear" how the different components values affect the circuit, and you'll decide for yourself how your BMP build should be tailored to your ears.

Personally, I've built three of them now, and all three use a mix of values from all eras, including the mid-scoop control mod. I'm working on a fourth now, which might even include a boost switch to disconnect the clipping cap in the first stage.

For the record, I have an original Civil War Muff, which countless Muff "aficionado's" will tell you is one of the ones "to die for", but quite honestly, doesn't blow my skirt up in my setup. It now resides in my closet, probably to be bequeathed to my son when I die.

The incarnations of this circuit can be endless. Have fun with it, and build something that will please you.

[PRR]

Do what Mike did. Throw something together, fiddle the gain to near-right (the LPB is really a booster which had to be added to an early E-H fuzz prototype to get it to distort), then spend a few days changing capacitor values.

"Matthews spent some time refining the electronics by trying different resistors and capacitor values to get the perfect sound for this unit."
http://www.kitrae.net/music/big_muff_history.html

[plexi12000]

digi2t -------  hey thats a good idea.  so...the idea w/ using a breadboard is to make component swapping easy right?  i think radio shack has them.

[digi2t]

digi2t -------  hey thats a good idea.  so...the idea w/ using a breadboard is to make component swapping easy right?  i think radio shack has them.

If they don't, you can find loads of them on ebay. That's where I got mine from. Like I said before, I've had a BMP circuit on one of my boards for about a month now. It's super easy to mess with that way, but more importantly, walk away from when you get "tone deaf". So far, I keep making changes to it, so I know I'm not there yet, but I'm close. Transistor, and resistor changes have stopped, now I'm down to the caps in the clipping section. Swap a few different values, play with it, walk away and try it tomorrow. It's amazing how it sounds different from one day to the next, but when you get to the point that you like it every day, then you build.

Buy the biggest board you can afford. Some circuits might become monsters, and the extra real estate might be useful. Case in point;



This was a schematic for a Japanese guitar synth pedal that I found on the net. Even though a PCB layout was available for it, there were no audio clips available. Breadboarding allowed me to try it, before I wasted my time building it. It really didn't work that well in reality, so the only thing lost was time. All the components are saved for other projects.

Here's a breadboard tip;
When you're trying to decide between component values (especially ones that are close), put them all on the board, and use a jumper to switch between them. For instance, you can't decide between three different caps. Install the all the caps on the board, with all the leads of one side of all the caps together, and the other leads apart. Connect a jumper to the connection point of where the cap lead (the ones apart) would normally go, and use the other end of the jumper to connect to the cap being auditioned. This way, it's easier to just "jump" to the next cap quickly, rather than pulling the cap, and installing another one. The tone that's fresh in your ears will still be there, and you'll discern small differences more easily.

Just Google "breadboard tutorial", you'll find lots of easy to follow instruction on how to use them.

[plexi12000]

digi2t--   wow-- awesome man!   thanks for responding

[plexi12000]

Les Paul Lover----  that big muff page is killer!!  thansks for the heads up.  great detailed info===