Formulas and Components for noobs

[Cozybuilder]

This proves math is fun!

[LightSoundGeometry]

well baring a complete meltdown on the finals I should pass this year physics class with a C - next semester I take business stats and I will graduate with two minor degrees - will be John L A.S. and I am being accepted into an electrical program ..are there any specific areas of electronics to go into? I seen a lot of CAD classes and mostly computer related ..noway in hell I know enough math to work on computers lol ..they have a Electrical design and management which only requires only one more pure math class and I already have 8 of the required 64 credit hours for that specific certificate ..anyone know what that degree might focus on etc? 

[LightSoundGeometry]

I think the guitarist might have meant a Hot Plate attenuator, which you put between the amp & speaker, Bluze.   "Soaks up some signal" to let you push the amp harder at a lower volume.   AKA  "power soak". 

"Starved plate" just means operating a tube at too low a voltage for proper electron flow from cathode to anode, squishing the device's curves and making it act "non-linear".     

The major 'difficulty' I find with tubes, which IS notable, is that they're not compact...you can't just pop 'em on a PCB (not easily...).  You can put 4 BJT's in the space one tube socket occupies.   And to do them 'full scale', you have to deal with the power supplies, of course.

I do like the sound, however  

just hit me..you are mike..analog mike who writes for several publications? If so, I do enjoy reading your articles.

[bluzeyonecat]

well baring a complete meltdown on the finals I should pass this year physics class with a C - next semester I take business stats and I will graduate with two minor degrees - will be John L A.S. and I am being accepted into an electrical program ..are there any specific areas of electronics to go into? I seen a lot of CAD classes and mostly computer related ..noway in hell I know enough math to work on computers lol ..they have a Electrical design and management which only requires only one more pure math class and I already have 8 of the required 64 credit hours for that specific certificate ..anyone know what that degree might focus on etc? 

Wow! Congrats on your progress and focus. I'm a working musician and live in the country between two big cities( Chicago and Peoria) can tell you first hand there US a strong demand for instrument, amp repair in my neck of the woods. Mike's as well as we were talking and he's the 'amp guy' in his town. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a little more to get my xxxx fixed by someone I could see and know and not have to ship. I know alot of other musos feel the same way. Something to think about.

[GibsonGM]

I think the guitarist might have meant a Hot Plate attenuator, which you put between the amp & speaker, Bluze.   "Soaks up some signal" to let you push the amp harder at a lower volume.   AKA  "power soak". 

"Starved plate" just means operating a tube at too low a voltage for proper electron flow from cathode to anode, squishing the device's curves and making it act "non-linear".     

The major 'difficulty' I find with tubes, which IS notable, is that they're not compact...you can't just pop 'em on a PCB (not easily...).  You can put 4 BJT's in the space one tube socket occupies.   And to do them 'full scale', you have to deal with the power supplies, of course.

I do like the sound, however  

just hit me..you are mike..analog mike who writes for several publications? If so, I do enjoy reading your articles.

No, but thanks for thinking I'm that "smart", ha ha!  I'm Guitar Mike, not the other one.  Live in a small Maine town (explains why I have so much time to lurk around the forum...)...like Bluze says, I'm the guy who gets to fix everyone's beat-up crap from the 70s.  Not too many people in these parts, but more musicians than one would think!
Can't make a living off it, though.   I'm all self-taught, I do this for fun and because I like to see other people have the "A HA!" moments when something becomes clear 

[tubegeek]

Note that there are two roots to the equation above, women = evil and women = -evil.

[LightSoundGeometry]

well baring a complete meltdown on the finals I should pass this year physics class with a C - next semester I take business stats and I will graduate with two minor degrees - will be John L A.S. and I am being accepted into an electrical program ..are there any specific areas of electronics to go into? I seen a lot of CAD classes and mostly computer related ..noway in hell I know enough math to work on computers lol ..they have a Electrical design and management which only requires only one more pure math class and I already have 8 of the required 64 credit hours for that specific certificate ..anyone know what that degree might focus on etc? 

Wow! Congrats on your progress and focus. I'm a working musician and live in the country between two big cities( Chicago and Peoria) can tell you first hand there US a strong demand for instrument, amp repair in my neck of the woods. Mike's as well as we were talking and he's the 'amp guy' in his town. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a little more to get my xxxx fixed by someone I could see and know and not have to ship. I know alot of other musos feel the same way. Something to think about.

John Ladas A.A.S. (fixed) !!

there is a market, people want hand made, hand crafted ..art. everyone one of my craigs list sales the guy has said to me " I can buy this online, or get one in a local store cheaper but I want to support a local guy and get a hand crafted item."

slowly word of mouth gets out ...hey , you want a good fuzz box, there is crazy guitar effects guy in XXXX who will make you one, and they rock !! 

and thank you, I am unemployed and looking daily for a job...hopefully with all the schooling behind me someone will give me a shot with a job so I can live a normal life and care for myseld and my pets. I have to be focused..I am basically almost homeless and starving ..literally ..I not only live day to day, but morning to night sometimes. Only reason I have willed myself into learning some of these circuits was to get food, gas and haircut money which funds my job hunt.

[bluzeyonecat]

I remember your status. Are you late teens, early twenties? Yea it's hard, no let me rephrase that, it's really hard, no let me rephrase that, its really, really, really hard starting out. Especially when there is no hand out. I know,  I climbed the same mountain. I know you'll make it. This is the time in your life that integrity is formed. You'll gratefully tote that to the grave. "Never ever give up." A smart British man said that. Im going to shut up now cuz Im sounding WAY to old!! Lol! You'll make it. I promise.

[LightSoundGeometry]

okay..I think I have this formula memorized but I really am not sure what a voltage divider does except regulate voltage output..I hear y'all talking about it a lot. i am guessing regulating voltage opens up all kinds of possibilities.

so if R2 is larger = higher output

R1 is larger = lower voltage out

Vout = Vin x r2/r1+r2

=

R2= R1 x Vout/Vin-Vout


learned a power filter takes AC in and turns signal into clean filtered DC by running it to ground.

so where would the voltage divider be in a guitar effects pedal, and how is it used there? say the one knob fuzz for example which only has 5 resistors not counting the external pot , if that matters or not not sure .

[garcho]

Not to be rude but you are way off. You need to start with electronics basics. There are many great websites and books out there for learning electronics from the beginners' perspective.

Just so you know:
Voltage dividers never boost voltage. Stare at that equation a little longer and think about math, you'll figure it out.
Your ideas about AC to DC are way off.
There can be, and often times are, many voltage dividers in pedals.
Voltage regulators are ICs that provide precise power needs. Voltage division via 2 resistors is not the same thing.

[LightSoundGeometry]

I agree, I am jumping all over the place ..I need to take a few classes out at the community college

[GibsonGM]

Even some rudimentary reading can help!!  Search "Basic electronics" on the net, you'll find 10,000 sites made JUST for the beginner.   No need to pay $ for any course at all (unless you want to). Few of us here have taken courses.  Self-taught, and had much help by reading thru old posts, asking questions, and learning what the 'gurus' who DO have degrees have willingly passed down for us!    But we all have to do the work, which means HOURS of understanding simple concepts that, once you add them to other things, may NOT be so simple...like Garcho said...STARING at equations and working them over and over...

If you amplify a signal from line level to something like a couple volts...then put THAT into another gain stage...you may well overdrive the 2nd stage to such clipping as to have a terrible sounding thing going on.   So, we use a divider to "LOSE" some voltage - to adjust it to the right level for the next stage.  It's really just a 'fixed volume control'.   They do this all the time in amps, pedals, etc.   It's not all about how much you can amplify a signal, it's about making levels correct for what you want to do with the signal.  There is a purpose for using a network like a divider, just as any tool has a purpose.
   
So, we all learn about how to make voltage dividers, and how they behave (they should have about 10x more current flowing in them as you need to draw from them to work well, for example, altho that's not always practical or possible...).   

Step 2: you can add a cap to a voltage divider to bypass higher AC frequencies around it, to get some tone control...this is the 'adding things together' part I mentioned.   Bypass caps are what make the "bright" channel bright in many Fender amps, for ex.    But, without a grounding in basics, you can't understand what is happening when you see a schematic...with the basics, you see blocks of things, and identify why they're there and what they do!

Ohm's law.  Ohm's law.  Ohm's law.  WATT's law.  Ohm's law....stupid experiments ("how much current flows in this 1 resistor at 9V?  How about at 6V?" stuff - over and over).    Doing the exercises of determining voltage drops in a string of resistors using Ohm....I think you need a program of study - not formally in a CC, but just some self-directed work.   

It's very easy when we get started to get so into trying to do it all at once, that we don't learn enough about any 1 thing to make a dent in learning this stuff, LOL...we all want to skip boring basics and design flangers, but it hurts us, trust me... 

Ohm's law. 

[duck_arse]

Ohm's law.  Ohm's law.  Ohm's law.  WATT's law.  Ohm's law....stupid experiments ("how much current flows in this 1 resistor at 9V?  How about at 6V?" stuff - over and over).

see how much smoke you can get from a resistor.

It's very easy when we get started to get so into trying to do it all at once, that we don't learn enough about any 1 thing to make a dent in learning this stuff, LOL...we all want to skip boring basics and design flangers, but it hurts us, trust me...

I once started a tech college course, "Electronics and Communications". by day I was building single board computers and master clock systems, at night they were teaching me how much force 100A exerts on a busbar, 25mm sq, etc. I didn't last more'n a year.

[ashcat_lt]

That one knob fuzz is a bit complex with all the feedback and shared components and basically just a bit deeper than I want to go right now, but I can tell you that the most important voltage dividers in that schematic have the transistors as all or most of the "bottom resistor" dividing down the battery voltage.  Didn't we talk about that above? 

An RC filter is also a voltage divider.  In an LPF, the R is the top and the C is the bottom.  In an HPF, they are reversed.

[GibsonGM]

An RC filter is also a voltage divider.  In an LPF, the R is the top and the C is the bottom.  In an HPF, they are reversed.

Yes - in the RC 'divider', when you present the filter with its cutoff frequency (center frequency), the reactance of the cap and the resistance of the R are equal.     Once one has mastered OHM and voltage dividers at DC, the AC stuff like this makes a lot more sense. 

Cap; frequency dependent resistor, basically.