Those doing more than the "hobbyist", what have you done to maximize workflow?

[karbomusic]

I was wondering if anyone found ways to do these things faster.

If you are building them for 'customers' the most valuable techniques you'll probably find on your own. Sort of a trial by fire because it hurts sort of learnin' But you did ask and haven't gotten many answers. Here are a couple and I'm sure others have many more and better ones...

- Choose a pattern/workflow. Repeat that exactly until it is second nature.
- Do things in batches.
- Related to the first, have a plan from beginning to end, every single step. There is zero time for head scratching about anything whether that be "what's next" or "Will this method last in real use" and so on. Work all of that out so there are few or no mistakes or second guesses as this kills efficiency.

The builds will get faster as you repeat the same pedal over and over. Hopefully, the speed and quality of product increases as you don't want to sacrifice the latter for the former and those two are almost always fighting each other.

[karbomusic]

Yeah that's what I've been doing (for 3 at a time) but I think I'm already not charging enough...

I think you are being smart making such considerations. I'm not kidding, because the moment you accept money and there is any reasonable expectation of earning a profit, it's business and no matter how we decorate it, it remains business (in the US anyway). Thusly, it's smart to consider everything including the stuff that's easy to ignore when giddy about making pedals, then make smart decisions based on those considerations.

It's not fair to grossly overcharge and it's not fair to work yourself to death and not get what you want out of it. A transaction is similar to a contract where either should result in a win/win for both parties. If both parties don't feel like they got something that makes it worth it to them, it's a bad deal.  

[Luke51411]

It's just a fine line because overall I think the connection I've made can work on some level I just need to set realistic expectations and communicate them well. It's weird, when people find out you build pedals and they hear them and like the sound they think you are some kind of genius guru that they can get cheap pedals from...

[Luke51411]

Actually one of my friends has been really great and understands the value of what I do and when I told him how much a pedal cost (that I was selling to one of his friends) I said like $80 or something like that and he texted back.... "Ok $100 sounds good" I need more friends like that. But everyone was happy in that situation, the guy loved the pedal, I made $100 and there is potential to sell a few more through those lines.

[karbomusic]

It's weird, when people find out you build pedals and they hear them and like the sound they think you are some kind of genius guru that they can get cheap pedals from...

LOL, yes.   A good and scary feeling all at the same time. However, it's important that we all understand what we, and most importantly our time is worth business or not. We only get 24 hours in a day and it is very valuable because it is unrecoverable and finite. It is very easy to undervalue ourselves for a multitude of reasons; I know, I've seen me do it.  The price needs to be fair and the seller needs to believe in, and confidently support that fair price without lowballing themselves because 'fair' works in both directions. It's also as much perception (on both ends) as anything.

Sorry for the ramble, it's just close to my heart as I owned and operated a few unrelated businesses/corporations a decade ago and this subject kicks up the lessons I learned along the way and a new one for selling pedals. I could pretend and sell them outside of being a business, but that always catches up with you in one form or another.

[amptramp]

You may want to look at some of the benefits of running a corporation rather than a sole proprietorship type of business.

I had a corporation which I started in 2003 and folded last year and with contract employment, having a corporation covers gaps in employment.  My resume says I worked for my company for all of those years and I can put the details of what I worked on without regard to the time I actually spent.  For example, I did tolerance, stress and failure modes effect analysis during 2003, did a few analysis jobs for another company in 2004 and managed a test program during 2005.  I started as a contractor to another company in 2006 but for security reasons had to convert to being an employee to avoid the requirement of an expensive security assessment for my own company.

But guess what?  I can claim full employment during that time, filling up some of the time holes in my resume.  And if someone asks if I have experience in running my own business, I can say yes even though I performed only a fraction of the tasks necessary for a manufacturing operation.  The advantage of a corporation as distinct from a sole proprietorship is that the liability extends only to the corporation and its assets - if someone sued me for anything I did in my corporation, he could only get its one asset - a Dell Dimension 2400 computer, new in 2004 and running Windows XP.  As a sole proprietor, your liability extends to all the assets you own, like your house and car.  If you sell a pedal to a band doing stadium rock and it fails, cancelling a $10 million show, you could be on the hook for a large chunk of change.  As a corporation, only its assets can be taken.

If you are planning to make pedal building into a business, incorporate!

[R.G.]

Or more simply, set up a limited liability company. An LLC is effectively a partnership without unlimited liability. They also tend to a bit less expensive and simpler to set up, depending on the rapacity of your state government. Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, a few others, tend to be under $500 and  without a huge amount of paper work. The high-tax (and moribund) states tend to be vastly more expensive and invasive.

[garcho]

^ I own a C-corp and LLC in Illinois, somewhere I'm assuming you'd consider "rapacious". Neither were expensive or difficult to start and neither are complicated to operate. Just sayin'...

[Cozybuilder]

You can set up a corporation in Nevada or Wyoming very cheaply, and both states have privacy laws making the ownership of the corporation difficult to determine. You do not need to be a state resident to set it up, yearly fees are minimal. Further, no state income taxes in those states.

[vigilante397]

When I first discovered the world of stompbox building I immediately became obsessed and decided it was what I wanted to do with my life. I seem to remember a thread similar to this one (though I am unable to find it now through searching), which shared similar pieces of advice to those found here. The main one that resonated with me was:

"What do you have to offer the world that it hasn't already seen?"

I have designed a couple original pedals, but the majority of builds I do are still clones of existing pedals designed by brilliant engineers from existing companies. There are people on this site whose original designs I think are brilliant enough to "make it" (deadastronaut, kyurie, pickdropper to name a few), but alas I am not as brilliant. So while my pedal building has brought in a little income (ran the numbers last year and my profit after parts but not including time spent was about $2000) I believe it will remain nothing more than an awesome, obsessive, and slightly profitable hobby.

//endRant

[R.G.]

^ I own a C-corp and LLC in Illinois, somewhere I'm assuming you'd consider "rapacious". Neither were expensive or difficult to start and neither are complicated to operate. Just sayin'...

Good to know.
Never checked Illinois, never thought about it, and I'm not sure why you'd think I'd think they were rapacious.
But good to know anyway. What does an Illinois-inexpensive cost?

[garcho]

Just thought Illinois was a good example of a state that often has different business policy than say, the SW. Of course, Illinois has one policy that trumps all others: corruption.  

Both companies were incorporated about 10 years ago, things might have changed since then. LLC was $500, the C Corp was less, IIRC. Does not include countless hours of "meetings" with partners, nor fees for accountants and lawyers.

...I'm not sure why you'd think I'd think they were rapacious.

Didn't mean to sound combative, it was more of an encouragement to others to start small businesses even if they do live in a state that is known for being rapacious, like Illinois    The more small businesses (those with prudent business plans, anyway) the better, as far as I'm concerned.

And speaking of, happy Small Business Week. Friends of mine in Chicago created that; it just got featured on google's homepage.

[karbomusic]

In my state the LLC is only 150.00 but then you must...

File for and pay for a business license with the City/County. Then zoning people are going to get involved because you are running a business from a residential address; aka you need an exception. And a number of other things. I'm all for more small businesses but it's better if they do the proper research, filing and preparation before they begin doing any business. Most jurisdictions, at least in my neck of the woods state such explicitly. They all communicate with each other in one form or another so if you skip over one or more of them, they'll come calling, collecting and fining at the most inopportune time.

[acehobojoe]

I think for me,  I can definitely turn a profit on singular pedals, but I can't neccesarily make a comfortable amount unless I do about 10 in a week. I hope that happens one day

[amptramp]

The cost of incorporation in Ontario was $360 when I did it and I believe is $390 now.  There is no distinction between a corporation and an LLC (limited-liability company) here.  I chose a numbered company since you need a NUANS search to determine if a company name had been used before if you use a normal name.  Corporate taxes can be a pain and they are more expensive (if you use an accounting service) than personal taxes, so be prepared to add that to your list of things to consider.  I never had any business license, but I was a consultancy, not a factory.

[anchovie]

I think for me,  I can definitely turn a profit on singular pedals, but I can't neccesarily make a comfortable amount unless I do about 10 in a week. I hope that happens one day

It's easy! All you have to do is find 10 people a week who a) know your pedal exists, and b) want to buy it!

[aion]

I think it's probably been said a few times farther up, but definitely one of the keys is outsourcing as much of the work as possible so you can focus your discipline on the parts that only you can do. Your time is the most valuable resource you have, the limiting factor to the amount you can produce, so the more time you can save yourself, the more you can build and the more

It's very much worthwhile to pay a company like Pedal Parts Plus $6.00 to screenprint, paint and drill each of your boxes, than having to learn how to screenprint, test different screen ink for durability, get into powdercoating, that sort of thing.

If you don't know much about designing PCBs yet, there are a few PCB suppliers who allow their projects to be used in commercial builds, and it's going to be worthwhile to pay $6-10 per PCB to avoid having to learn EAGLE, mess up a whole lot of times (which costs prototyping $), learn how to order PCBs from China, compare prices depending on specs, that sort of thing, and after all that, still pay $1.00 to $4.00 per PCB at the quantities you will need.

Assembly, to me, is the part that makes the most difference in the final quality, and so it's the one thing I wouldn't look into outsourcing, at least for a small builder. As R.G. can attest, good quality assembly can definitely come out of China, but it takes a lot of hand-holding and iteration because they try really hard to cut corners and do it as cheaply as possible. You also have to design the PCB with assembly in mind, which means you have to understand the methods and process really well. It's better for you at this point to have full control over your parts selection, sourcing, and soldering methods.

In my state the LLC is only 150.00 but then you must...

File for and pay for a business license with the City/County. Then zoning people are going to get involved because you are running a business from a residential address; aka you need an exception. And a number of other things. I'm all for more small businesses but it's better if they do the proper research, filing and preparation before they begin doing any business. Most jurisdictions, at least in my neck of the woods state such explicitly. They all communicate with each other in one form or another so if you skip over one or more of them, they'll come calling, collecting and fining at the most inopportune time.

Yikes. I'm in Iowa and I just filled out a one-page letter template that basically just said I'm starting an LLC, here's the name, and here's the address. The filing fee was $50.

It felt kind of like an "I... DECLARE... BANKRUPTCY!" sort of deal (how could it be that easy?) - but they sent me my registration within a couple of weeks

[vigilante397]

Yikes. I'm in Iowa and I just filled out a one-page letter template that basically just said I'm starting an LLC, here's the name, and here's the address. The filing fee was $50.

I think you won that one I thought Idaho was going to be the cheapest at $100 to set up an LLC.

[italianguy63]

Hahahahhah -- I just got popped by zoning a couple weeks ago.  I had to apply for an Occupational License for my "home business."  $51.50.

MC

[karbomusic]

Yikes. I'm in Iowa and I just filled out a one-page letter template that basically just said I'm starting an LLC, here's the name, and here's the address. The filing fee was $50.

It's that easy for me other than the fee being slightly higher. However, getting the LLC registered isn't the only step. In other words any other government entities that also need to be contacted, paid, setup for etc. don't magically get registered simply because the LLC  registered with the state. The LLC is just the shell entity for a company/assets. Now, if your city/county/zoning etc. allows you to run a manufacturing business out of your home with zero fees paperwork, you are in good shape. Let's not forget the federal side either.

I'm not saying anything is hard per se, I'm saying that many ignore or don't realize how much is actually involved. I fully promote going into business for one's self but we want to remove the naivety and educate if at all possible.