Glossy Sticker Paper for Pedal Graphics

[canman]

Hey guys,

I've successfully managed to use glossy sticker paper for pedal graphics.  Just once.  The other attempts have failed.  I'm not exactly sure why, to be honest.

Once I stick the sticker on the pedal, I give it a few very light coats of spray lacquer.  When I spray a bit of a heavier coat (still a pretty light coat...it is lacquer, after all) it seems to soak through the paper and separates it from the adhesive.  So after a few really light coats of lacquer, the paper is protected enough to toss in the oven for 10 minutes at 150 degrees.  300 degrees seems to prevent the adhesive from sticking to the pedal.  I wonder if even 150 is preventing the adhesive from working properly.

Anyways, after I bake the few light coats, I give the pedal a normal coat of lacquer, let it dry for a while and bake it for another 10 minutes at 150 degrees.  I repeat this process a few times until I have a solid clear coat over the sticker (and rest of the pedal).  What seems to happen without fail though, is the corners lift up and won't stick back down.  I have no idea why!  And on the last attempt, the corners peeled up so I just peeled off the sticker because I was fed up and decided to start over.  After I peeled it up, all the lacquer started to peel up too!  What the heck?  Never had that problem before, usually the lacquer is on there for good.

I'm really trying to avoid using waterslide decals for my pedals, but maybe it's just inevitable.  I dunno.  Has anyone successfully used glossy sticker paper with their pedals?  I know beavis audio's "box in a day" uses glossy sticker paper, but I've had rotten luck with that entire process.  Perhaps I need to quit baking the lacquer if I'm using sticker paper and just wait another day for everything to harden up?

I came across this stuff:  http://www.texascraft.com/hps/Inkjet-Clear-Glossy-Vinyl-8.5-in.-x-11-in-10-Sheets.html

Has anyone used this with good results?  I like that it's clear instead of white. 

[davent]

Well a great way to get glue to give up and let go so you can disassemble things is heat. Have you tried doing the job sans heat?

Is glossy inkjet paper coated with anything (to make it glossy) that would shrink and contract upon being heated, pulling the heat released corners up away from the enclosure?

On a woodworking forum i was reading they were baking lacquer at very low temps.

Google turned up baking lacquers, whatever they may be.
dave

[PRR]

> toss in the oven for 10 minutes at 150 degrees.

Aron lets anybody in here. Different lands use different thermometers. Might be good to know if you mean 150 F or 150 C.

However even 150 F seems very hot for most finishes. And way-hot for sticker glue.

> the corners lift up

Same as roasting a turkey. My grandmother would put aluminum foil on the wing-tips and drum-sticks so they didn't burn before the body of the bird cooked-through. Corners heat faster.

I think less heat and more time.

You may also be having a reaction between the solvent in the paint and the glue on the stickers. "Goof-Off" takes-off both stickers and most paints.

[canman]

My mistake, I thought I mentioned 150F...150C would be slightly too hot 

I guess the question I should ask now is, at what temperature (F) is baking Rustoleum lacquer still doing any good?  I read on some woodworking forums that 120-130F is a good temp, would going as low as 100F still speed curing time?  Do you guys bake the lacquer clear coat finishes on your pedals or do you go without heat?

Worst case scenario, I do what davent suggested and just do it without the oven.

The inkjet paper isn't coated with anything I'm aware of that would cause it to shrink when heated, but I'm not really sure, and I don't know how to check, to be honest.  Unless it's written on the package, but I haven't noticed anything unusual. 

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions, I'll see if I can get better results with lower heat.

[karbomusic]

I guess the question I should ask now is, at what temperature (F) is baking Rustoleum lacquer still doing any good?  I read on some woodworking forums that 120-130F is a good temp

That is about the exact same temperature range I use for Rustoleum laquer. I have no experience with stickers though (I use waterslides) but would imagine they could bubble, shrink whatever. I'm sure there is plenty of sticker experience running around here though.


I do lacquer (actually all my spray substances) in very thin coats a couple minutes apart. My lacquer, even with 10+ coats is dry pretty quick. I don't know how long it takes to actually cure but I have sprayed pedals a at noon and have them on my pedal board and in use later that evening. Read the can, many sprays have a maximum window of 15 minutes - 1 hour for additional coats, exceed that and you must wait 24 or some longer duration before applying new coats. Ridiculously thin, is always better than too thick because if too thick and not using the proper time between (too soon, not soon enough) it may never seem to cure. It just sort of stays soft and no matter what you do it doesn't seem to recover from that state.

You could probably do 20 coats, a minute apart each and it be dry to the touch within 10 minutes of the last coat if those coats were thin enough.

[canman]

Hmm.  So do you bake after the final coat of lacquer? 

I do notice the thin coats of lacquer definitely dry fast, maybe baking with the sticker is overkill.  Hopefully someone with sticker experience can chime in!

[Jdansti]

I use GO2 Glue by Locktite (http://m.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-1-75-fl-oz-Go2-Glue-1624417/203437879) on regular photo paper and have no problems at all with lacquer. It's good up to 176F.

You could also try sticky backed photo paper instead of glossy labels. The photo paper doesn't allow the thin coats of lacquer to penetrate.

[LightSoundGeometry]

I just spent 8 bucks on WS paper and 25 on color ink ..I am curious how this turns out as I wouldnt mind being able to adhere and fasten stickers to

the sun works wonders above 50 degrees F for 8 hours but you have to watch out for windxdust particles afloat

[aron]

> Aron lets anybody in here.

Not entirely true :-)

[davent]

Hmm.  So do you bake after the final coat of lacquer? 

I do notice the thin coats of lacquer definitely dry fast, maybe baking with the sticker is overkill.  Hopefully someone with sticker experience can chime in!

If you're just using a sticker on top with bare sides, have you looked into using Envirotex instead of lacquer?

[Jdansti]

+1 Envirotex.

[wavley]

+1 Envirotex.

Hmm.  So do you bake after the final coat of lacquer? 

I do notice the thin coats of lacquer definitely dry fast, maybe baking with the sticker is overkill.  Hopefully someone with sticker experience can chime in!

If you're just using a sticker on top with bare sides, have you looked into using Envirotex instead of lacquer?

I'm a fan of envirotex too.

[canman]

I've never heard of Envirotex...I'll check it out!

I'm not using labels...the stuff I have is full sheet, glossy photo sticker paper.  Only heavy coats of lacquer penetrate through the paper, but I really dig the idea of using the locktite glue with regular photo paper.  Would be MUCH easier than getting the sticker lined up properly.

I picked up this stuff at Home Depot today to experiment with:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-12-oz-Gloss-Clear-Triple-Thick-Spray-264985/203815331

I have no idea if it dries hard or what, but I assume it would, since it's described as a clear coat.  Who knows.  I'm about to test it right now, I'll let you all know what I find.  It says it's dry to handle in 20 mins and fully hard in 24 hours, so it may be a good heat free finish.

[Jdansti]

^Great-let us know!  This brings up a question as to whether your previous lacquer is oil or water based. The new stuff you're using is oil based.

[canman]

I noticed that...I'll check the lacquer I was using and post...just waiting for the printer to finish up!

[Kipper4]

I have been using the very same method for a couple of years and urnseprisingly have the same issue.
I have tried several glues to stick the self adhesive photo paper to the enclosures.

One method I've had a bit of sucess with is to apply a spray on glue to both box and back of label. he glue i have been trialing is the sort used to stick vinyl flooring down.

Lately though I've been in touch with a local sign writer who is helping me develop the label system some more.
The trial label he stuck to the box the oter day looks really promising. Its not paper though its vinyl.
Very thin too but will double in thickness when printed because the have to laminate it to make it more coulor fast and hardy to wear.

I can't see this being an issue because the labels are probably only 10-20 micron thick for a start. Although I havent seen the second printed trial with laminate yet. and I havent tried to clear coat it yet.

So now I've ordered some clear vinyl A4 stickers to do some home trials as well.
Some thoughts for you there though. I hope it works out for you and If I remember I'll report back after.
Rich

[canman]

My initial test has been positive thus far.  I printed the sticker (didn't get it cut quite right, which proved to be interesting...I'll explain in a bit), stuck it on the enclosure, and did about 4-5 light coats, a few mins apart.  I noticed just a little bit of sticker lift/overhang on a couple of corners after the second coat, so I actually gave those areas a bit of a heavier coat, and continued with the procedure.  The...whatever the heck this triple thick stuff is...actually covered the lifted area and makes it feel as though it was one with the enclosure.  Pretty interesting.  Anyways, I let the stuff dry for 20 mins after the 5th coat, and brought it in to cut out the holes.  At this point I noticed that the finish is thick, but I'm not sure how "hard" it is.  Once I got the holes cut I took it back out, sprayed a light coat around the holes, and gave it one final coat.  It's drying right now.  I'll bring it in after 20 mins (supposedly dry to handle at that point) and evaluate the finish.

If the finish hardens up after 24 hours (hopefully sooner) then I'll be happy with the results and will continue using this stuff!  It definitely goes on "triple thick," as I may have gone with too many coats which could account for the not super hard finish as of right now.  We'll see what happens later, but I could probably get away with thicker coats and only spray 3 coats.  And I'd cut the holes out of the sticker first, before I started finishing it.

I haven't tried baking it, so I may try baking it on the baseplate of a pedal first to see what happens.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-12-oz-Gloss-Clear-Triple-Thick-Spray-264985/203815331

[diydave]

No experience with stickers, but I coat my graphics (paper or magazinepaper) with carpenters glue and let it dry.
The glue acts like a protective sheet so the clearcoat won't run through. And it seals in the paper on to the box.
Use carpenters glue on the box as well.

[wavley]

I've never heard of Envirotex...I'll check it out!

I'm not using labels...the stuff I have is full sheet, glossy photo sticker paper.  Only heavy coats of lacquer penetrate through the paper, but I really dig the idea of using the locktite glue with regular photo paper.  Would be MUCH easier than getting the sticker lined up properly.

I picked up this stuff at Home Depot today to experiment with:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-12-oz-Gloss-Clear-Triple-Thick-Spray-264985/203815331

I have no idea if it dries hard or what, but I assume it would, since it's described as a clear coat.  Who knows.  I'm about to test it right now, I'll let you all know what I find.  It says it's dry to handle in 20 mins and fully hard in 24 hours, so it may be a good heat free finish.

I've done a couple of pedals that my wife did art with a glue stick and paper and I coated with the triple thick, they've been on my board for 5 or 6 years and are holding up great.

[davent]

I've never heard of Envirotex...I'll check it out!

I'm not using labels...the stuff I have is full sheet, glossy photo sticker paper.  Only heavy coats of lacquer penetrate through the paper, but I really dig the idea of using the locktite glue with regular photo paper.  Would be MUCH easier than getting the sticker lined up properly.

I picked up this stuff at Home Depot today to experiment with:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-12-oz-Gloss-Clear-Triple-Thick-Spray-264985/203815331

I have no idea if it dries hard or what, but I assume it would, since it's described as a clear coat.  Who knows.  I'm about to test it right now, I'll let you all know what I find.  It says it's dry to handle in 20 mins and fully hard in 24 hours, so it may be a good heat free finish.

Nice tutorial here on using Envirotex, (and others around as well).
http://stompage.juansolo.co.uk/finishing.html
dave