Damaged pedal purchased from eBay and I need a little help troubleshooting

[Belanger]

I know what it means. There was a owner previous to me and I obviously he must of turned it because it operates after I turned it.  So it's a little annoying to wake up and have to read the same messages from the same people basically telling me I put it in baclwards when I know I didn't.  Sorry if that "dude"came off as condescending.

[Belanger]

This place is a really great idea. Unfortunately people find the need to belittle people who know less then them or can be just plan annoying and not helpful in the slightest.  Some people are amazing   And are beyond helpful.  I guess it comes down to if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything.  If you can't help with out being rude at the same time then don't help me at all please.  And I mean that in the most respectful way possible.  This should be a place people are able to learn with out fear of being ridiculed

[R.G.]

You've posted 62 times, and likely read much more at this forum before signing up. You know that this forum is a beacon of civility in a snide, petty, and contentious internet.

Lecturing the posters here about how to reform the behavior of the many thousands of registered users to better treat you is not likely to be a satisfying process for you.

Just saying...   

[Belanger]

No body puts a gun to our heads and forces us to help anyone with there posts.  You think people could atleast be nice to the people they choose to help. Or just don't say anything at all.  Dream world I know.

[M.A.P]

Looks like some component behind the charge pump is damaged and creating a short-circuit or low resistance between positive voltage and ground causing a high current to flow. That would explain why the charge pump ic is getting hot. The rest of the circuit may work normal if there is still enough current to run it.

As already suggested by others, I would remove all ics out of their sockets first. Then you can measure on the output pin of the charge pump against ground to see if there is a low resistance. If this seems ok put the charge pump back in and power to the pedal.
-If it gets hot the problem is maybe caused by an electrtolytic capacitor that's shortening on the higher voltage. Normally the caps of damaged electrolytic capacitors pop out but even if everything looks ok the capacitor might be damaged.
-If the charge pump stays cold one of the op amps may be damaged or some component behind the op amps that are not connected to power with the removed op amp ics.

I hope you get your Pedal running properly 

Greetings from Germany
Marcus

[R.G.]

Yes, I used to think that people would be nice - until I ran into a true narcissist. A little research turned up that about 10% of the population is somewhat incapable of empathizing with others, and about 10% of those are close to criminally un-empathetic. These folks cannot deal with other people on any basis other than exploiting them any more than a double arm amputee can be a major league baseball pitcher. They lack the equipment.

I use this only as an extreme example to get to the point that people are different from one another, and not always in teachable ways. The distribution also runs all the way to the other extreme, the folks who are completely selfless - literally.

So you can't really count on how people ought to be. Worse yet, you're setting yourself up for a lot of irritation and frustration if you expect them to act the way you think they ought to act.

What worries me more than a little misunderstanding of a phrase here is the rise of the attitude that people can and should be offended by [whatever] and have the right to force others not to offend them - over ANYTHING at all. Somehow the tolerance movement of the 60s has become perverted into an intolerance of anything that is not approved by the tolerance gurus. Nothing good can come out of the rise of intolerance for any reason.

But I digress.

[R.G.]

Oh, and what Government_Lackey said: go read and follow the Debugging Page instructions. That process has proven deadly to non-working circuits. Very effective.

[induction]

Respectfully, Belanger, you've stated that you 'know' that the op-amp isn't in backwards, but your only evidence is a silk-screen that may be itself in error, and the fact that the pedal 'works', even while you admit it overheats every time you turn it on. Passing signal isn't the only requirement for correct operation. Not erupting in flames qualifies as a necessary condition for 'works'.

Nobody is insulting you. We're just trying to get you to consider the possibility that the op-amp wasn't backwards in the first place, despite what the silk-screen says. The previous owner said it worked, right? Maybe he was lying, but surely it's at least possible that he wasn't, isn't it?

In any case, there's a short in there somewhere. I'd consider installing a fresh op-amp in the original orientation corresponding to how you received it. If that fixes it, great. If not, my best advice would be to take it to someone with some experience repairing pedals.

[Belanger]

I should read more for sure and I will.   Cant help saying it's completely unnecessary

[Belanger]

I also checked with the manufacturer of the pedal and looked At pictures of the pedal on line of the insides and I both cases I was assured I was right. Just because I don't state every step I took doesn't mean they weren't made.  I just don't see why I have to prove its in backwards to people. I already know that's not the issue what's the point of entertaining the idea or even bothering with the people who think I'm seriously that stupid. I really appreciate the help and I'll figure it out. 

[Ice-9]

I hope you are getting nearer getting this Klone circuit fixed, I would like to point out that it is worth checking that it is not the 8 pin IC socket that is in backwards, it's an easy mistake to make and more likely than the silkscreen being the wrong way.

With the opamp removed and the pedal powered can you measure the voltage on pin 8 of the IC socket, this will give 100% confirmation which way that IC should be fitted. ie power rail and ground pins 8 and 4.
If the Voltage doubling IC was in the wrong orientation it is likely damage to other components would have happened which will need fixed first (check diodes). If it is a MAX1044 you can try checking that pin 1 and 8 are connected together, this will give and indication of which way it should be installed also check for pin 3 going to gnd for more identity confirmation.

If you still have issues then you need to start tracing out the circuit around these IC's to give yourself a better understanding of what is what.

The one thing I would have thought if the pedal was sole as working, why you didn't try it first before messing with the internals. If it was sold as non working, then I totally understand.

[induction]

I also checked with the manufacturer of the pedal and looked At pictures of the pedal on line of the insides and I both cases I was assured I was right. Just because I don't state every step I took doesn't mean they weren't made.

We only have access to the information you give us. We can't read your mind.

I just don't see why I have to prove its in backwards to people. I already know that's not the issue what's the point of entertaining the idea or even bothering with the people who think I'm seriously that stupid

You're going to have a hard time getting help from people if you think that every suggestion is an insult. It's not stupid to make a mistake, unless you're saying everyone on this forum is stupid. Should we be offended now? (See how unhelpful it can be to look for insults when they aren't intended?)

I'm sorry your pedal isn't working. I hope you get it figured out.

[slacker]

If the opamp was ever in backwards and power was applied it's dead or dying, pull it out and see if the charge pump stops getting hot. Hopefully a new opamp will fix it but you have to wonder why someone took it out in the first place.

[karbomusic]

Nobody is insulting you.

Nope, not at all. My entire reason for replying was that if it wasn't tested first, but instead, the op amp was switched around solely based on a visual, then we run the high risk of now being in an unknown state. Reversing before testing may have caused damage and since we really don't know at this point (obviously your fear was warranted since the same could have occurred either way), we don't know if it is heating due to being in backwards, labeled backwards or broken from the get go. That being said, the best thing to do is drop back and just debug it from the current 'square one'.

If the original builder confirmed it was actually in backwards, I'm just not comfortable trusting him/her because they apparently assemble pedals with parts backwards and don't test before shipping them either. 

[kaycee]

It's pretty easy to solder in an IC pin tray the wrong way round, and then put the op amp in the right way, particularly if you've built a fair few of that model and know which way up they go.

If you can read a schematic it's pretty easy to find a ground or power connection to the op amp and use a meters continuity tester to check where that connects to on the tray.

[karbomusic]

It's pretty easy to solder in an IC pin tray the wrong way round, and then put the op amp in the right way, particularly if you've built a fair few of that model and know which way up they go.

If you can read a schematic it's pretty easy to find a ground or power connection to the op amp and use a meters continuity tester to check where that connects to on the tray.

Totally agree, but if I built one and was going to sell it, it gets undone and corrected. Actually, I'd undo it and correct it even if I wasn't going to sell it.

We do things that way because it removes confusion five years down the road when we forget, and because it's 'right' and because we don't want to use debugging methods such as checking for ground etc. when we could have just known due to being built properly.


/friendly rant

[Rixen]

IMHO the charge pump is likely to be damaged if the pedal has ever been powered with the op-amp reversed. It can withstand a short circuit (ie reversed op-amp) on the output only if the input voltage is below 5.5V..

[GibsonGM]

I should read more for sure and I will.   Cant help saying it's completely unnecessary

...
I also checked with the manufacturer of the pedal and looked At pictures of the pedal on line of the insides and I both cases I was assured I was right. Just because I don't state every step I took doesn't mean they weren't made.  I just don't see why I have to prove its in backwards to people. I already know that's not the issue what's the point of entertaining the idea or even bothering with the people who think I'm seriously that stupid. I really appreciate the help and I'll figure it out.

Wow...so all the time myself and others were trying to figure this out for you, to unscramble the "unknown condition" created by arbitrarily rotating a part and communicate the sensible steps to take to a newbie who may not understand what we meant, you already had it licked.   

Good for you, enjoy the pedal!   

[anchovie]

When it arrived I opened up the back of it like I always do.

Stop doing this. Receive, plug in, go through return/refund process if faulty. Any non-DIYer would simply be annoyed at the inconvenience and want their money back because the purchase transaction was carried out with the expectation of a working item.

Too late for this one though, so get some voltage measurements from those chip pins like others have suggested.

[Ice-9]

So, Have you managed to get to the bottom of the issue yet? I am intrigued as to what the problem turned out to be.