Reverb Tremolo

[M.Spencer]

A friend of mine asked of i could do a "shimmering type of sound" stompbox for him.  Can't find a latout for a diy shimmer pedal without an FV-1 (I've never messed with programming), so i suggested a tremolo/reverb dual enclosure.  He liked that idea,  so I'm thinking a modified tremulus lune (a few knobs replaced with fixed resistors or trimpots) into a Box of Hall.

How useful is an order switcher?
Would it make sense to insert the tremulus circuit into the wet signal path of the BoH (before the Reverb mix pot) ?

The end user isn't very experienced with stompboxes so i want it to have a simple interface. I may even do only one stomp switch as a matter engage/bypass. looking for input,  Thanks

[roseblood11]

What most people call "shimmer" is something completely different. It's a fast delay with a lot of feedback, with an octave up effect in the feedback loop. A plate reverb just be placed behind the delay. Listen to many U2 songs...
I've never heard a good shimmer from a FV-1, even old commercial pedals like the Line6 Verbzilla are better (Behringer made a very cheap clone!)

[Kipper4]

Can I just ask what is a "shimmering type of sound"?
'cause if some one asked me to build one I'd be lost without at least some kind of reference.
Did you show him some samples of how a tremolo into a verb sounded?
Could you find a sample so we can hear the type of effect he wants?
Sorry for all the questions.
Rich

Edit.Roseblood sneeked in......

[roseblood11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPCWpvn68_U

----
A tremolo into a spring reverb simulation will sound like any Fender amp...

[M.Spencer]

Did you show him some samples of how a tremolo into a verb sounded?
Could you find a sample so we can hear the type of effect he wants?

Yes i did send him samples of the trem and reverb circuits, a sound sample of a trem into a verb, and Told him it would be similar to a fender silverface/blackface kind of setup.  He said that sounded cool.  So assuming those parameters do you think I'm on the right track?

[M.Spencer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPCWpvn68_U

Agreed,  this is what i think of as shimmer.  But my friend is less knowledgeable in the world of stomp boxes and i think he was describing a fast sine/triangle, low depth trem into a spacey reverb. 

To knowledge there is no easily diy shimmer available, correct?

[whoisalhedges]

To knowledge there is no easily diy shimmer available, correct?

Using your definition (trem into verb), not that I'm aware of.

There are some decent commercial Blackface-style trem/verb pedals - the Strymon Flint sounds good (and is fairly pricey), the VHT Melo-Verb is more reasonably priced, Keeley has a bunch of pretty creative takes on reverb and tremolo (and some vibrato). I'm actually surprised there aren't more, because - well, amps.

I haven't been a member here very long, there may be some awesome tremolo/reverb combos made by forumites I'm not familiar with - in any case, there are TONS of DIY tremolos, and they run the gamut from chewy sine-wave trems emulating all kind of classic sounds to repeat percussion chops (the latter not sounding "shimmery" to my ears). DIY reverb pretty much comes in two flavors: PT2399/Belton Brick (which is 3 PT2399s) and spring a la Center Stage... pretty sure your friend isn't looking for a spring tank, so - the DIY reverbs are all probably bunched together stylistically and in degree of complexity more than the trems.

You probably nailed it with the Tremulus Lune > BoH... maybe even go with a tweaked EA Tremolo if your friend doesn't want all those knobs. And this is a pretty simple (circuitry and controls) 'verb: http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/equinox.html

[M.Spencer]

I know the answer is"try it and see if you like it, " but has anyone here ran a trem and washy reverb in parallel? How did it sound?

[Kipper4]

"in parallel?" Surely you mean series?

[whoisalhedges]

"in parallel?" Surely you mean series?

I figured he did mean parallel... because just about everyone who's played through a Fender (or many other) amp has played tremolo and reverb in series; many, many times. I've never played through them in parallel (or like Keeley's done with some of the new pedals, applying the trem only to the wet signal) and would be curious as to how it would sound mixed.

[M.Spencer]

"in parallel?" Surely you mean series?

I do in fact mean parallel. I'm thinking input into a splitter / buffer, then sum the two signals with a mixer using a blend pot so each effect could be used on its own if desired. 

Is this crazy talk? I'm just spitballing

[roseblood11]

It's not crazy, I just think it doesn't sound good. I just tried it, with a Tap Tempo Tremolo (from musicpcb.com) and a Line6 Verbzilla. I would always prefer both pedals in series.

The tremulus lune is surely a good choice, but the tap tempo trem would give a few more options. I wouldn't like the "box of hall" in this kind of pedal, because its just a simple spring reverb. Maybe you could use a circuit based on the FV-1 for reverb?


Another option would be this kit:
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/product_info.php?cPath=105_195_403&products_id=4097&language=en&osCsid=2614535bab7515b0d8d2affe9e41ba90
(chose the "FV1 8G1" module)

[M.Spencer]

I wouldn't like the "box of hall" in this kind of pedal, because its just a simple spring reverb. Maybe you could use a circuit based on the FV-1 for reverb?
(chose the "FV1 8G1" module)

I haven't worked with an FV1 module yet, don't want to dig  in with this project.  Instead i think I'll replace the"damp" knob on the BoH with a dwell knob to give it some more variation. Tap tempo would be nice but,  again this is for someone with fairly simple needs.

The only thing i haven't decided on is whether or not to splice the tremulus into the Wet signal of the BOH. I hear Keeley does something similar on one of his designs.  Before i spend an extra hour  our two on the breadboard, has anyone tried this?  Any significant changes to the sound versus just runningthe two circuits in series?

Thanks for your advice folks

[atwas2112]

I'd use something like a Madbean Moodring for a shimmery effect. It won't emulate the typical octave-up shimmer effect, but it's cool and shimmery in its own way. The Box of Hall looks like a  standard reverb that's meant more for just adding a slight springy ambience in the background than to be used as an actual effect.

For the tremolo, consider harmonic tremolo (if your friend likes it, of course). Or, if you can design circuits yourself, a switchable harmonic/amplitude tremolo shouldn't be too hard to do.

The effect order switch would definitely be useful. Tremolo before reverb can be more subtle, as the reverb fills some of the gaps, while tremolo after reverb modulates the volume post-reverb resulting in a stronger effect. It's not a subtle difference, especially at more extreme settings, so the switch is a good idea.

[M.Spencer]

I ended up going with a tremulous line with Shape as an internal trimpot, a Box of Hall with the Dwell mod and Damp replaced with a fixed resistor network,  plus an order switcher.  Thanks for your input folks

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