friends, PLEASE help me figure out how to do this one ;)

[pinkjimiphoton]

I'm thinking the key to what Jimi wants is in the manner of envelope detection.

Usually, the pick attack is strongest so pumps up the DC envelope rapidly, but the sustain portion of the note barely keeps the DC from dropping back to zero. For an envelope sweep, that's what you want, while it looks like Peak Hold Detection is what Jimi is after.

The highest level (peak) from the pick attack is remembered until another pick attack. The target control is always set to the amount determined by the current peak reading - or average of the peak reading!

The simplest (could be too simple) I imagine is similar envelope circuity as the usual diode rectifier/charge-pump types. The envelope cap is bled very slowly so it doesn't follow the note decay down too fast. It might even have a second RC to further slow (average) the envelope. Juggled right, it could be a fairly steady measure of pick attack. I doubt it could precise enough for tempo control - you could control it, but not so you can consistently match to a tempo.
You will probably need some panel controls - sensitivity & decay. Might work with internal presets if your setup is consistent.
The bleed rate of the envelope is the tricky thing. Bleed too fast and the control gets swept by the envelope. Bleed too slow and it takes a while for softer picking to take effect. Choose the lesser weevil.

there's a reason i like other guys named jim

thank you!! yes!!!! exactly what you just described is what i failed to be able to describe...  it may be inconsistent, but i bet it would be close enough for rock and roll. in that case, i think you could use the pick attack to set the speed, and have the "shape" or envelope control not the speed, but the DEPTH of the effect... that way your dynamics could control the speed... play legato and it stays constant, play more articulated and have it follow each new attack, and then let the envelope shape the rest so that say, ya wiggle your finger and it changes the depth of the effect...  i think.

if this is that easy to do... and it seems it may be... i think another jim wins the coveted "translate pink jimi's latest pipe dreams" award!!

i really think that it what i meant in the first place, but now i'm thinking the combination of the two controls, if they can be implemented could be really cool, like....imagine being able to strum hard to set the speed of modulation or delay time or trem or whatever, and then vary the intensity of your chosen control via aftertouch/vibrato etc?

now we're cookin with GAS i think....

[digi2t]

i mean... hit it softly and say ya gotta really fast modulation. hit it harder and it slows down.  so you could actually set the tempo of the effect by your picking attack.

Add a reversing switch. Like the Mutron up/down. LFO speed up on hard attack, or LFO slow down on hard attack.

Now I'm wondering if this function exists in my GT-PRO? I know that I can use picking dynamics to switch amp channels (soft picking = clean channel, hard(er) picking = dirty channel), but I'm wondering if I can apply this function to the LFO. Gonna have to dive into the manual. Sorry... thinking out loud here. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

so... attack threshold be used to trigger rate,. and envelope used to shape one other parameter.

make 'em both independent daughter boards that can replace the control of your choice for retrofitting into preexisting circuits...

do ya think it's possible?  cuz to me, seems like that would be the cat's ass, and be infinitely useable in completely improbable ways.

cuz remember, you can also shape your sensitivity by how much guitar you feed it... turn your guitar down, less sweep, turn it up, get more..
seems to me you could dial in whatever shade necessary "in the ball park" and then control it right from your guitar.

in the cheezy dano french fries autowah, if i need it to wah more or easier, i turn the guitar up... then it's easier to wah every note. if i wanna have to work it more, and milk the wah out, i turn the guitar down.

add a fuzz (of course) and it reduces the dynamics somewhat, but seems to improve the tracking....

[pinkjimiphoton]

i mean... hit it softly and say ya gotta really fast modulation. hit it harder and it slows down.  so you could actually set the tempo of the effect by your picking attack.

Add a reversing switch. Like the Mutron up/down. LFO speed up on hard attack, or LFO slow down on hard attack.

Now I'm wondering if this function exists in my GT-PRO? I know that I can use picking dynamics to switch amp channels (soft picking = clean channel, hard(er) picking = dirty channel), but I'm wondering if I can apply this function to the LFO. Gonna have to dive into the manual. Sorry... thinking out loud here. 

exactly dino... so uou can choose an upward or downward sweep, go faster or go slower etc...
make it generic enough where ya can adapt it to anything tha needs control

that's why i was initially thinking escobedo's phunqgnosis, but with dead astro's down sweep mod (which works great... well, it did.. sold the pedal to a guy touring in poland)

[Mark Hammer]

For many folks, the most obvious application is modulation rate.  But let's stop and ask ourselves what we would like to accompany any change in picking intended to convey "And I mean it!". 

One application that comes up is something like feedback/regeneration in phasers or flangers.  In a great many cases, the intensity of the feedback is dictated, or at least influenced, by a single resistance at the input to a mixing stage.  That resistor can also be harnessed to a photocell, such that picking harder reduces the combined parallel resistance and increases intensity.

[robthequiet]

Craig Anderton's Phase Shifter (EPFM p.64) had a provision for adding an envelope follower to modulate the signal from the LFO to the CLM6000 LEDs. I guess you could do either/both LFO depth & feedback modulation.

[pinkjimiphoton]

For many folks, the most obvious application is modulation rate.  But let's stop and ask ourselves what we would like to accompany any change in picking intended to convey "And I mean it!". 

One application that comes up is something like feedback/regeneration in phasers or flangers.  In a great many cases, the intensity of the feedback is dictated, or at least influenced, by a single resistance at the input to a mixing stage.  That resistor can also be harnessed to a photocell, such that picking harder reduces the combined parallel resistance and increases intensity.

THIS is why we love you so much, Mark. exactly the kinda weirdness i'd love to see!!!!

shit, could split the frequency by crossover point even maybe, and make different attacks at different "ranges" of the guitar control completely independent parameters.... or like you said, feedback paths... on a flanger or phaser or chorus that could be devastating!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

Craig Anderton's Phase Shifter (EPFM p.64) had a provision for adding an envelope follower to modulate the signal from the LFO to the CLM6000 LEDs. I guess you could do either/both LFO depth & feedback modulation.

thanks rob i gotta find my copy and look at it. still above my paygrade of understanding, but it sure seems like it is worth a  look!!

[robthequiet]

Actually, placing on the circuit is easy, just goes between LFO and LED line -- the tricky part (which I myself have not done, tbh, is getting the levels right. Will be following along [emoji1303]


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[anotherjim]

Idea in my head right now, and I don't think it's a million miles away from something DuckArse was working on, is a pick triggered Whammy. Based on PT2399 (oh yeh!) which is normally bypassed by FET switching but is actively recording at shortest delay. Upon a high enough picking level, the bypass switches (actually a quick crossfade) the delay sound in and the dry out. The Delay time is also swept down and up by a one-shot envelope (nothing to do with guitar envelope) and then returns to the dry signal, until you whack the strings hard enough again. Idea inspired by Tony McPhee of The Groundhogs fame who was known to throw sudden & extreme whammy bar excursions into a song.
Only an idea so far...

[duck_arse]

hmm, I thought it was an enveloped delay for tape spills, but whammy attacker, ok. I thought I'd upped the circuits for the enveloped delay, but maybe I was waiting for balkers to complete or something, dunno. anyway, the enveloper I was/am using/grafting on to everything can be found in these bukkets (along with some other stuff, that's how it goes with bukkets).

http://imgur.com/a/KmPHB
http://imgur.com/a/Fptj9

[anotherjim]

So Stephen, that one always sweeps from the envelope if it's told to?
Didn't know is was called Balker/Baulker/Borker... Thought it was Temper Tantrum?
You have to be quick to get the name before EHX do.

[duck_arse]

names, who needs em? it would have a switch to choose no env/dry env/wet env. it was me having the tanty tho.