FS3X Accidentally bough Switched Stereo Jack

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So I was following this tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHAX15niYBM

...trying to build an FS3X clone.

Unfortunately I bought the wrong stereo jack: https://www.conrad.de/de/klinken-steckverbinder-635-mm-buchse-einbau-vertikal-polzahl-3-stereo-silber-bkl-electronic-1109002-1-st-733032.html

...which, I'm guessing, is a switched stereo jack. (Might be worse... not sure.)


Seeing as it's cold as HELL this week, I figured I'd just go ahead and see if I was able to get it to work anyway.

Well...

I am using a stereo cable first of all.  Everything is wired EXACTLY like the guy in that video. We're using the same diodes. The first connection... the "down" button (LEFT/Ring-Ground) works perfectly fine.

Neither the "up" button (RIGHT/TIP-LEFT-RING-GND) nor the "stop" button (RIGHT/TIP - GND) work at all.  If I stick the cable in halfway or just stick a mono cable in there... then the numbers start shooting "up" like crazy.

I tried soldering... what I must ASSUME is the "switch"... to the "RIGHT/TIP" pole... but this changed nothing. I even tried holding the switch and the connector together with pliers... nothing. Then I figured: "Maybe I'm wrong... Maybe the TIP is really the SWITCH and vice-versa"... switched them. Made no difference.

Is this just a far more complicated jack than I anticipated? Or am I just missing a wire somehow?

As I said... the Down button functions as intended.

Thanks in advance.

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Welcome. Do you have a multimeter? If you do, use it to check which lug connects to tip, sleeve, and ground. That jack can work fine. Post some clear pics of your work and we can try to help figure out what you did wrong.

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Thanks for the quick reply. Here (in the attached photo) is the whole completed thing. I guess the question that's haunting me is: Why the hell does the "down" button (two red wires) function *perfectly*? My heart would be at ease if nothing worked at all...

Black wire to GND (in the back of the plug there)... can't really see how I could've screwed that up... Red wire to ring...  That leaves exactly two lugs. It's gotta be one or the other right? Unless of course I misjudged which one was the GND or ring.

(Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter. And if I did... I don't really know what the different readings are for ring, tip, and I'm assuming GND would be 0?)

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More pics... Mainly to show off the badass, matching baby blue stereo cable I got for my box... (it's gonna be AWESOME once it works...)

Important question: Even WITH the switch: Is this thing just supposed to WORK with a 1/4inch plugged in? I mean is that how the whole switch works? Or is the switch what's preventing it from working? I've been trying to wrap my head around similar threads on this forum... but the stupid thing just makes no sense to me.

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Think of the switch part of the jack as nothing more than two lugs for the tip which are disconnected when a plug is inserted, leaving only one lug still connected to the tip, and the other lug disconnected from the entire jack.

As that video describes, the record switch connects tip to ground, the down switch connects ring to ground, and the up switch connects both to ground. The diodes isolate record and down from each other so that they can operate independently.

I can't be sure from the pics - not enough angles and not sharp enough for my eyes. But the fact that down works but record/stop doesn't suggests that red and black are correct but brown is not. Up doesn't work because record/stop doesn't work.

Without a multimeter, you should be able to visually see which lugs connect to which parts of the jack by following which layer of the wafer-conductor sandwich is theirs. But a guess on my part would be that you need to move the brown wire to the unused jack lug.

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Think of the switch part of the jack as nothing more than two lugs for the tip which are disconnected when a plug is inserted, leaving only one lug still connected to the tip, and the other lug disconnected from the entire jack.

Wait... So, on a normal, non-switching stereo jack... are all the lugs connected or disconnected? Or is it the same?

As that video describes, the record switch connects tip to ground, the down switch connects ring to ground, and the up switch connects both to ground. The diodes isolate record and down from each other so that they can operate independently.

I can't be sure from the pics - not enough angles and not sharp enough for my eyes. But the fact that down works but record/stop doesn't suggests that red and black are correct but brown is not. Up doesn't work because record/stop doesn't work.

So was I correct in assuming that if this were just some weird kind of reverse jack... then Down really shouldn't be working at all? Should the whole thing work just fine, if wired correctly and a plug inserted?

ONE big difference between the way he did his and the way I did mine is that his ground goes straight from the jack to "UP"... mine goes straight from the jack to "DOWN". Don't know why that would make a difference (they both connect to each other and end at "REC"). But I suppose I could run another wire from GND on the jack to UP just for the hell of it. Just to see what would happen.

Without a multimeter, you should be able to visually see which lugs connect to which parts of the jack by following which layer of the wafer-conductor sandwich is theirs. But a guess on my part would be that you need to move the brown wire to the unused jack lug.

Tried that... didn't solder it... Just had it resting there... but still... I can try soldering it onto the unused lug just to see what happens.  It would be GREAT to not have to go all the way back in this prehistoric shop in this freezing weather and stand in line for an hour just to buy another jack.

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My guess is you're using a mix of normally open and normally closed momentary switches, and the pedal only like one kind.

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Wait... So, on a normal, non-switching stereo jack... are all the lugs connected or disconnected? Or is it the same?

The same. All normal lugs are permanently connected to their respective jack elements in either type of jack. Switching jacks have additional lugs for extra elements that either make or break contact with a standard jack element (tip, ring, or sleeve) when a plug is inserted (there are various types, the one you have is probably the most common - tip contact is broken).

Should the whole thing work just fine, if wired correctly and a plug inserted?

Should work fine.

ONE big difference between the way he did his and the way I did mine is that his ground goes straight from the jack to "UP"... mine goes straight from the jack to "DOWN". Don't know why that would make a difference (they both connect to each other and end at "REC"). But I suppose I could run another wire from GND on the jack to UP just for the hell of it. Just to see what would happen.

As long as all grounds are connected to the jack sleeve, the wire routing doesn't matter.

Tried that... didn't solder it... Just had it resting there... but still... I can try soldering it onto the unused lug just to see what happens.  It would be GREAT to not have to go all the way back in this prehistoric shop in this freezing weather and stand in line for an hour just to buy another jack.

Worth a try at least - "resting" doesn't inspire confidence in a solid connection.

Another thing we haven't gone over - what kind of switches are you using? So far it seems like you have the right kind - momentary normally open (NO) - but it's possible one of them isn't working. You can check for a faulty switch by jumpering the switch terminals with a wire to emulate switch operation.

Here's a technique for figuring out the terminals by process of elimination:

• Leave the wires connected to the jack, but disconnect them from the switches and diodes.
• Attach a fourth wire to the unused lug.
• Plug in the stereo cable and connect your device.
• Take any two wires and touch the bare ends together noting what it does to the device.
• Repeat with a different two wires until all wire combinations are covered or until you find record/stop and down pairs.
• When you are done, you should have found two pairs that perform record/stop and down.
• The wire common to both pairs is sleeve/ground.
• The other wire for down is ring.
• The other wire for record/stop is tip.
• The wire left out is the jack switch.

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Here's a technique for figuring out the terminals by process of elimination:

• Leave the wires connected to the jack, but disconnect them from the switches and diodes.
• Attach a fourth wire to the unused lug.
• Plug in the stereo cable and connect your device.
• Take any two wires and touch the bare ends together noting what it does to the device.
• Repeat with a different two wires until all wire combinations are covered or until you find record/stop and down pairs.
• When you are done, you should have found two pairs that perform record/stop and down.
• The wire common to both pairs is sleeve/ground.
• The other wire for down is ring.
• The other wire for record/stop is tip.
• The wire left out is the jack switch.

Ok... Something is SERIOUSLY screwed up with this jack.  So... BEFORE i did all that I took the brown wire (which I believe to be the tip) and just touched it to a few things essentially trying to find stop or up. Nothing happened... but ever SINCE then "down" stopped functioning as down and would only function as "stop".

Alright.

So I disconnected every wire from everything  but the jack.

Now ground + what I believe is "ring" = stop but ALSO ground + what I believe to be "tip"... is ALSO stop.   The unused lug does nothing. So I guess it's really just the switch.

There MUST be a short somewhere... It's worth noting that the "ground" (at least what I believe is ground) was turned DIRECTLY in front of "ring" when I got it. I could not have soldered anything onto it without rotating it. I don't know if it's accidentally in contact with something now or WHAT... but I'll try exchanging the jack tomorrow unless you guys can give me an idea of what the hell is going on.

But, for right now, any of the two working lugs connected to ground only does "stop". They both do the same thing. And connecting all three wires does nothing.

here's a link to the plug I'm using: https://www.conrad.de/de/klinken-steckverbinder-635-mm-buchse-einbau-vertikal-polzahl-3-stereo-silber-bkl-electronic-1109002-1-st-733032.html

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Definitely sounds like a possible short. Note that it might be the cable, although yours looks like it was bought not made, but even still you never know. These are just a few reasons why you really need a multimeter - even an inexpensive basic model - if you are going to be doing this sort of work - could have sorted out the problem in a few minutes. The fact that the lugs move is not a good sign. Is the one you bought decent quality? If not, try to get a better quality jack like a switchcraft or neutrik.

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Definitely sounds like a possible short. Note that it might be the cable, although yours looks like it was bought not made, but even still you never know. These are just a few reasons why you really need a multimeter - even an inexpensive basic model - if you are going to be doing this sort of work - could have sorted out the problem in a few minutes. The fact that the lugs move is not a good sign. Is the one you bought decent quality? If not, try to get a better quality jack like a switchcraft or neutrik.

I'm in Berlin (though NOT German... so all this "IP Address"-related nonsense really ticks me off... they are totally missing their target demographic... just go with the browser language... anyway...) where there are exactly TWO electronic stores across town from each other. One is called Conrad... and one is waaaaay on the outskirts of the city... maybe not even in the city at all... called Segor Elektronik. They both give me a headache... but I *hate* Conrad. It's also only about 5 minutes from my place. So that's where I bought the jack. 

The GND was out of position when I bought it (don't know if I mentioned that before)... it slides pretty easily when I'm even screwing it into the pedal case. So yeah... probably not the best built jack of all time.  It gets WORSE though. (And you are going to LOVE this...)

THIS is one of those cases where a multimeter would not have helped at ALL... like not even a lil bit. 

Let me know if this photo is sharp enough for you to see the problem:

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BTW... I discovered this problem by removing the jack completely, attaching a second wire to the negative, and touching the tip, ring, then tip and ring (using the second wire) of the cable input DIRECTLY. That's when I looked up and saw that the lug that was supposed to be making contact with the ring was actually touching the tip as well! The damned thing's so cheaply made it just BENT up there one of the times that I was sticking in the cable.

Terrible....

So I bent it back down with a pair of wires and tested it and everything functioned okay (using just the wires as you suggested) and it appears I had everything soldered correctly the first time. Now I'm going to solder everything back together and see what happens.

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Ah yes - the rare tip-tip-sleeve stereo jack.    I had a cheap chinese jack do that to me once - and oddly enough it was on a friend's FS3X that I was rewiring for him because it wasn't working properly after he paid someone to rebox it. I bent it back into shape so that it wouldn't get hung up on the tip again and let him know (was out of spare jacks at the time).

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Ah yes - the rare tip-tip-sleeve stereo jack.    I had a cheap chinese jack do that to me once - and oddly enough it was on a friend's FS3X that I was rewiring for him because it wasn't working properly after he paid someone to rebox it. I bent it back into shape so that it wouldn't get hung up on the tip again and let him know (was out of spare jacks at the time).

Unbelievable...

Anyway, THAT'S A WRAP! As it turns out the original problem is that... for some odd reason... the GND wasn't going all the way around (even though I had it daisy-chained. Otherwise it would've worked the first time. I discovered it because I still had that extra GND wire that I had used for testing attached so I went ahead and soldered it directly to the tip lug and lo  and behold up and stop were working and down wasn't working. So I soldered the other GND wire to ring and now the whole thing works.

Thanks for all your help! You saved me one hell of a cold walk back to that store I hate so much. (won't be buying any more parts from them. There's another store with reliable parts in Germany... I'll just have to order online.)

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Maybe you are referring to Banzai Music, but if not, they are in Germany I believe. I've ordered from them here in Canada once - their shipping charge was about the same as ordering from the USA which is where I normally order from as there aren't any decent online electronics retailers in Canada. My experience with them was all positive and they have good selection.

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Maybe you are referring to Banzai Music, but if not, they are in Germany I believe. I've ordered from them here in Canada once - their shipping charge was about the same as ordering from the USA which is where I normally order from as there aren't any decent online electronics retailers in Canada. My experience with them was all positive and they have good selection.

Thanks for the tip! I'm assuming they've got an "English" option in the menu... the entire German language is built to frustrate American writers.

I want to get new  buttons to replace those little BS ones I got from Conrad. This one looks interesting... but not sure about the three prongs: https://www.reichelt.de/Kippschalter/FS-35/3/index.html?ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=7890&GROUPID=7584&artnr=FS+35&SEARCH=drucktaster%2Baus

Well look at that... Banzai Music is actually in Berlin... https://www.google.de/maps/place/Banzai+Music+GmbH/@52.4310215,13.3687478,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x70108e26485eddde!8m2!3d52.429373!4d13.37879

WAAAAAY down in Mariennefelde. Eh... I'm not going there. I'll just order online. Should be here next day. EDIT: Oh no! 6 euro shipping? That's actually enough for me to ride the ridiculously overpriced train there and back. I guess I'm going. This is the switch that they have. I'd order the other one from reichelt if it worked... otherwise I'd get this one. But I'm in no hurry... not expecting the cheap Conrad buttons to break that fast:

http://www.banzaimusic.com/Momentary-Soft-Touch-SPST-NC.html

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Are you sure Banzai actually has a physical retail store? I thought they were online only.

That first switch from Reichelt is probably SPDT therefore the three terminals. It should work, but hard to know exactly what it is from the minimal description. Preferably you want soft touch (no click) with short action. The Banzai switch is not the right one - it's 'NC' - normally closed - you need normally open 'NO' - this one: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Momentary-Soft-Touch-SPST-NO.html - but of course they appear to be temporarily out of stock for that. While you are at it: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Neutrik-jack-open-Stereo.html.

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Are you sure Banzai actually has a physical retail store? I thought they were online only.

That first switch from Reichelt is probably SPDT therefore the three terminals. It should work, but hard to know exactly what it is from the minimal description. Preferably you want soft touch (no click) with short action. The Banzai switch is not the right one - it's 'NC' - normally closed - you need normally open 'NO' - this one: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Momentary-Soft-Touch-SPST-NO.html - but of course they appear to be temporarily out of stock for that. While you are at it: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Neutrik-jack-open-Stereo.html.

Meh... I don't know if they're really a "STORE... store..." But if you click on the Google link they do list opening hours... and if you go through the order process one of the options is to go there and pick it up so...

Is "Normally Open" the same as "Normally Off"? and is "Normally Closed" the same as "Normally On?"... That's so confusing to me...

Hell... I think I *still* won't go there. It' within three stops from where I used to live and THAT is as far south as I've ever gone in this city. Besides... the train ride is like 2.70 each way so I'd only be saving 60 cents by picking it up in person. (Wish they had slower delivery options... I mean it's like half an hour away from here...)

Anyway thanks for the advice. I'll probably DEFINITELY want to get a better jack... the one I have will almost certainly @#$% up on me eventually. And while I'm rewiring everything anyway...

OH! And do you have any ideas about my next project? http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=118964.0

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I've never heard the terms "normally off" and "normally on." I suppose you could argue about what on and off mean, since you could turn something on by closing or opening a switch, depending on the circuit. So the terms are "normally open" which means the contacts are disconnected unless you are pressing the switch, and "normally closed" (connected unless pressing the switch).

It doesn't pay to use cheap hardware for something you plan to use and rely on.

No clue about the jamman syncing.

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I've never heard the terms "normally off" and "normally on." I suppose you could argue about what on and off mean, since you could turn something on by closing or opening a switch, depending on the circuit. So the terms are "normally open" which means the contacts are disconnected unless you are pressing the switch, and "normally closed" (connected unless pressing the switch).

It doesn't pay to use cheap hardware for something you plan to use and rely on.

No clue about the jamman syncing.

Well thanks again! I'm sure I'll be bumping into you somewhere down the road (probably when I try to build the ultimate loop pedal...)