Author Topic: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues  (Read 2228 times)

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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2018, 08:04:28 PM »
Slowpoke- just to confirm, did you mean remove IC1 or IC2 to test pin7?

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2018, 08:12:54 PM »
Idiot here forgot that there are resistors connecting some of the pins of IC2 together so that there exists a current path from the pin 2 connection. So the values that you are reading are OK. Notice that the voltages on pins 8 and 4 are now closer to +18V and -9V. IC2 may be unwell.

Remove power and whatever your are using for IC2. Check that there are no shorts between any of the pins on the socket. The only pins that should be shorted together are pins 3 and 5. If you find any other shorts make sure to repair them.

Now, no audio at all anywhere on the board with IC2 removed. And still no audio when IC2 is reinstalled. OK. That's different. Very odd. I will have to think about that. In the meantime check the connections between the components attached to IC2 pin 7. This will include the volume pot. Also is there any chance of uploading a photo of the board and its wiring to the stomp-switch, the input and output jacks?

Getting some spare ICs would be a great idea.

Here is a schematic that also shows the connections to the stomp-switch and the input / output jacks. It may help with following how the components are supposed to be connected.





I have been referring to IC2. Removing IC1 will stop all audio on the board.

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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2018, 08:43:18 PM »
So the audio came back on the board- no clue what happened.  With IC2 out there is actually audio on pins 2,5&7 (socket only).  With the IC in the socket there is no audio in 2 or 5 and very ďgood distortedĒ audio on pin 7

 There are no shorts other than 3&5 together.

I actually bought the IC kit from small bear that has a bunch of spare ICs.  Just donít have them with me. Iíll be able to swap.

Any other steps before I can swap IC2?

****actually- I just swapped the IC1 chip with the IC2 chip- same results so itís prob not the chips.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 08:47:28 PM by Big mike 1100 »

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2018, 08:59:04 PM »
The audio has come back? There may be an intermittent connection somewhere. As long as you have audio at the moment don't be too concerned yet.

Now, IC2 (yes, IC2). With IC2 removed I would expect audio on pin 2. Audio of a lower level may be heard on pins 1, 6 and 7. This audio would be passing through the components in the tone control circuit. The audio level at pin 7 would be far lower than what can be heard at pin 2. Remember that IC2 is not installed. You last posted that audio was found on pin 5...Was that a typo and you meant pin 6.

No shorts where they shouldn't be is good. Reinstall IC2.

You said that with IC2 (?) installed you have no audio on pin 2 but good distorted audio on pin 7. Does the audio on pin 7 vary with the gain pot and the tone pot?

Swapping IC1 and IC2 makes no difference. OK. The chips are most likely OK.


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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2018, 09:17:37 PM »
YES typo- Pin6- sorry!

ďYou said that with IC2 (?) installed you have no audio on pin 2 but good distorted audio on pin 7. Does the audio on pin 7 vary with the gain pot and the tone pot? ď

YES- IC2 pin7 varies with the gain and tone pot.

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2018, 09:28:32 PM »
So far so good. Audio probe time.
Starting at IC2 pin 7 check for audio then check for audio on both pins of C15 and R25 then terminal 3 of the volume pot. Repair any broken connections. If all good then set the volume pot to mid-range. Check for audio on terminal 2 and if present vary the volume and confirm that the level changes. If it does - good. If it doesn't the the volume pot may be faulty or you have a short to ground on terminal 2.
If all is good so far, see if audio is present on the board connection point SW1-3. If it is there follow the connecting wire to the stomp-switch board. Chase the audio there. Let us know what happens.
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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2018, 09:51:09 PM »
I followed it to SW1-3 and onto the stomp-switch at point SW1-3.  So far so good!

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2018, 09:57:13 PM »
Now you need to follow it through the stomp-switch and the PCB.
Find out why it is not connecting to the output jack.

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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2018, 10:03:11 PM »
the signal goes right to the output switch, but the gain and tone pots don't have any effect on the signal.  Only the volume pot.

Could something in the switch have an effect on gain and tone and not just the signal controlled by the volume pot?

Or maybe put another way, IC2 pin 7 is loud and the volume pot has no effect on it, but the gain and tone pots do.  Is there a way to see where the gain and tone pots fall off during the trace?  The plain audio seems to make it through, but Gain/tone don't have any effect at the end of the signal.



Gain/Tone have no effect at SW1-3, but Volume does

on R25 Volume has no effect but tone and gain do. I guess volume is not in the path yet?

Would working backwards make sense somehow?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 10:18:14 PM by Big mike 1100 »

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2018, 10:20:13 PM »
I think that there is something wrong with your stomp-switch and/or its PCB.
Disconnect SW1-3 at the stomp-switch PCB. Now audio probe that lead. You may find that the audio signal is varied by the gain/tone/volume pots. If you now probe the SW1-3 connection point on the stomp-switch board you may find that there is audio present but it is at the same level and quality as what is on pin 1 of IC1 (yes - IC1).

If this is the case and you cannot easily see any problems with the stomp-switch and PCB, replace them.
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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2018, 10:34:11 PM »
I disconnected/cut the wire SW 1-3.  When I probe the half of the wire connected to the stompswtich SW1-3 I get the same audio as pin 1 on IC1, but there is no audio on SW1-3 on the full PCB board half of the wire.  I think it actually grounds out.

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #111 on: February 13, 2018, 10:43:42 PM »
Or you may have a short between the connection points 1.1 and 1.3 (SW1-1 and SW1-3) on either the main board or the stomp-switch board.

I disconnected/cut the wire SW 1-3.  When I probe the half of the wire connected to the stompswtich SW1-3 I get the same audio as pin 1 on IC1, but there is no audio on SW1-3 on the full PCB board half of the wire.  I think it actually grounds out.

SW1-3 is the output (terminal 2 - wiper) of the volume pot. Check the continuity and also check for ground shorts.

But you should not have audio from IC1 showing on SW1-3. Unless there is a short between SW1-1 and SW1-3 it can't be there.

Remember that when you cut the SW1-3 wire any audio that may be coming from IC2 (yes - IC2) pin7 will now be varied by the volume control. Turn the volume to maximum to ensure high level.
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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #112 on: February 13, 2018, 11:02:08 PM »
There is continuity between Volume terminal 2 and SW1-3 on the board

Questions:
1-There doesn't appear to be continuity between 1.1 and 1.3 which I would assume show that there's no short, correct?

2-are you saying there should be no audio on SW1-3 on the stompswitch?  It's definitely there, just not affected by any of the pots. 

3-Does this mean I should disconnect everything from the PCB stomp switch and start the switch connection over?

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2018, 11:27:25 PM »
On the main board you should have "dry" audio (pin 1 of IC1) appearing on the 1.1 (SW1-1) connection point. This audio is not altered by the gain/tone/volume pots. It is used for bypass audio in bypass mode.
The 1.3 (SW1-3) connection point is the "wet" audio connection. This is audio that has been altered by the effect circuitry. Audio will only appear at this connection when the effect is engaged. When it not engaged (bypass mode) there is almost no audio at this point due to D1 and D2 being shorted to ground by the 2.1 (SW2-1) connection.

There is continuity between Volume terminal 2 and SW1-3 on the board

Questions:
1-There doesn't appear to be continuity between 1.1 and 1.3 which I would assume show that there's no short, correct?

2-are you saying there should be no audio on SW1-3 on the stompswitch?  It's definitely there, just not affected by any of the pots. 

3-Does this mean I should disconnect everything from the PCB stomp switch and start the switch connection over?

I suspect that there may be a short between 1.1 and 1.3 at the stomp-switch board.
Dry audio should always be present at 1.1 on both the main board and the stomp-switch board. However dry audio should not be present at 1.3 on either board in either bypass or engaged modes.

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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #114 on: February 14, 2018, 09:48:48 AM »
Thanks Slowpoke- Iíll get another 3PDT switch as itís tough to successfully desolder the pcb board from the stompswitch and first try wiring without the small PCB bypass board and see how it goes.  Iíll report back in a few days.

Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #115 on: Yesterday at 06:02:42 PM »
My 3pdt switches finally came in and I was able to rewire it, but still having issues.  I think I might actually be wiring it wrong.  I first was using the Refractor bypass board, but I'll bet there are solder bridges under it and I didn't want it to happen again, so I followed the offboard wiring schematic found on page 7:

https://aionelectronics.com/project/refractor-centaur-overdrive/

Firstly, there is a 100K resistor (R28).  The instructions say that if it's not put in the spot on the picture (between lugs 4 and 6 on the switch), that its easier to run it from the output jacks lug to the star ground. 

Just to confirm: 

this means running the 100k resistor from the Tip of the output jack to the star ground lug on the input jack.  and if this is the case, does that brown wire still go from lug 4 on the switch to the output jack tip, which will also have one leg of the resistor on the same output jack tip? 

And does the green wire on lug 6 of the switch still go to ground?

Using the audio probe- I get great volume up to R25, and then it's very quiet on Lug 2 of the volume pot.

Right now, when the guitar is plugged in, there's no sound in either bypass or when the pedal is on.





Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #116 on: Yesterday at 08:32:36 PM »
Please refer to the following picture to help avoid confusion. Note the position of the switch - the lugs (terminals) are horizontal.



R26 (68K) is connected to terminals 1 and 2.
R27 (68K) is connected to terminals 2 and 3.
The brown wire connects to terminal 2 and to the tip terminal of the output connector.
Terminal 1 connects to the 1.1 board connection point.
Terminal 3 connects to the 1.3 board connection point.
Terminals 4, 5 and 6 are left vacant.
Terminal 7 connects to the 2.1 board connection point.
Terminal 8 connects to the star ground point on the input connector's sleeve terminal.
Terminal 9 connects to the 2.3 board connection point.
Resistor R28 can be connected to terminals 2 and 8 but due to terminal 2 getting very crowded, R28 can be connected to the output connector's tip terminal and the star ground point on the input connector's sleeve terminal. Terminal 8 must still be connected to the star ground point.

A continuity test will help to establish that things are connected correctly. Test for continuity between terminals 1 and 2 then between terminals 2 and 3. Only 1 set will have continuity. Then click the stomp switch and test for continuity between the set that was open circuit, it should now have continuity and the set that did should now be open.
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Big mike 1100

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #117 on: Yesterday at 09:59:29 PM »
Thanks Slowpoke!  All wired up as you explained.  The continuity is still a bit of an issue

in one position of the switch
2&3 connect
1&2 do not
8&9 connect
7&8 do not

in the other position of the switch
1&2 connect
2&3 connect****strike that!  found a stray wire.  should be ok!
7&8 connect
8&9 do not

Just plugged it in and there's good news and bad...

The Good news is I'm back to where I was before with there being sound in bypass mode and also when the pedal is engaged.  The only thing that works is the volume pot- no tone and no gain.  I actually replaced the gain pot and the volume pot, as well as most of the wires, which were bending and breaking after so much movement.  I have to figure out the best wire to buy, as what I have isn't very sturdy.



« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:09:19 PM by Big mike 1100 »

Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #118 on: Yesterday at 10:18:45 PM »
As long as: "2&3 connect****strike that!  found a stray wire.  should be ok!" in now OK, then the switch tests OK. Now for the wiring.

Apply power and make sure that the LED lights up in when the effect is engaged and goes out when in bypass mode. If it does then go to the next step. If the LED doesn't behave have expected then you have to find out why.
If all is good then remove power will in bypass mode (LED not lit). Test for continuity between board connection point 1.1 and the tip terminal of the output connector. If there is continuity click the stomp switch to engaged and test for continuity between board connection point 1.3 and the tip terminal of the output connector. If there is continuity then the major switch wiring is correct.
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Slowpoke101

Re: Aion Refractor (Klon clone)Issues
« Reply #119 on: Yesterday at 10:24:56 PM »
I just noted your last edit.
Damn. I was hoping that you were close to getting the effect to work properly. Oh well...
I will have another look to see if there is anything else that could be causing this problem.
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