finishing boxes...

[Rodgre]

I love making pedals. I love plugging in the finished product and hitting the switch and making noise.

What I don't love is finishing the boxes. Is there anyone out there who can say that drilling and painting these blasted things is "easy"?

I like to think of myself as a creative and artistic guy who is capable of finishing some cool looking boxes. I think I'm doing it right, though I don't have a drilling template, other than printed paper taped to the box. Still, drilling it a TOTAL pain in the neck. Drilling holes on the side for jacks sucks. Forget about cutting square holes for DC jacks. I've gone through about fifty dremel cut-off wheels doing that. They all look like hell.

Now I've just come up from the garage from painting a few boxes. I know from experience that they will be scratched before the end of the week and look like hell.

I have a friend who paints cars and has offered to shoot boxes for me, but will that be a better route as far as scratching is concerned?

I also just tried the t-shirt transfer idea, using Avery transfers and that didn't work either... the transfer didn't stick everywhere so i had to strip it off again.

What are you using to clean and prep your boxes for painting? Is there some sort of secret etching primer that sticks to this stuff?

Sorry. I just had to vent. I'm covered in paint and getting frustrated. Maybe patience is my problem. Go ahead and tell me.

Roger

[BillyJ]

I think acetone is the standard solvent for cleaning prior to painting and maybe labeling too.
I thought I had read somewhere about polishing the surface too but can't recall offhand if that is correct. Seems to make sense with the labels though to get a smooth surface to get the label to stick to.
I haven't done painting yet but look forward to it.

[Rodgre]

Okay Billy. I'll send you my boxes too. You can look forward to painting them too

Acetone.... I had been sanding, and using paint thinner to clean and degrease. I'll pick up some acetone today.

By the way, what paints do you all like?

I've used the following, trying not to mix types on the same box:

Dupli-color car sprays.
Regular enamel Rustoleum types.
Testors spray cans (the only cheap way to do candy colors and glittery metalflakes)

Roger

[petemoore59]

Sanding seems to give the paint something to grab, acetoning gets all the oil etc off...necessary i think. [cant hurt [Iuse fingernail polish remover]
  I use epoxy or bondo on RACO's...this stuff really stix and the bondo is sandable. Never tried eoixy paints..seems like they'd dry real hard?
  I just use regular rustoleum spray cans, the I use nitrocellulose laquer primer and gloss finish [guitar finish stuff from Stewart Macdonald [a luthier supply house]...extremely stinky, dries fast/hard, is resandable etc...I like it except for the smell I associate with the mind bending chemicals...don't get a whif unless you use more than Adequate ventilation of you like headaches and impaired brainpower...and other related health problems!
  I did one with a sheet of urethane film [I got from where I worked and is available from Stevens urethane 'dunno quantities'] fitted [bonds to itself when heated] around the corners then baked on...like a plastic coating...soft, but still somewhat resistant to cuts and scratches because it's soft.

[Greg Moss]

If you haven't tried the baked enamel finish described on GEO, AMZ and of course, this site, I highly recommend it.  Go to an auto parts store get a spray can of primer, and your choice of auto touch-up paint.  The Lappen's near my house has an interesting selection of colors ranging from conservative GM metallics, to weird iridesant custom car paints.  Carefully sand before each coat, and after, bake at 200 F for an hour.  

I had driven myself crazy before trying this out, but now i couldn't be happier.  No smears no scratches.  The fumes seem a lot less noxious than the spray laquer I had been using as well.

Greg

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Greg, are you using one of those little toaster ovens from a thrift? Or do you live alone, and use a 'real' oven??

[AllyP]

Yeah right....the wife would go ape shit if she found me using it hehehe :twisted:

[BILLYL]

I use the RACO boxes and the Bondo stuff.  But to help out I made a template for all the various holes.  This really helps in eliminating some of the major part of the task.

Once I am finished there - I spray eithe black or white primer - do some minor sanding if needed. And paint the box.  I like the Hammertone finish and I may overspray with other colors.  Once I am done with that - I'll shoot a couple of lacquer clear coats - let the whole thing dry for a day and but the effect together.

I find that most of the time you are waiting for something to dry.

BILLYL :idea:

[Greg Moss]

Greg, are you using one of those little toaster ovens from a thrift? Or do you live alone, and use a 'real' oven??

No, it's true. :lol: Not only do I have the toaster oven setup, but I usually run an extension cord to the back porch to be less offensive to those I live with.  

Funny thing is, the toaster I bought from the thrift store was in a lot better shape than the one my new roomate brought with him.  So now the thrift store toaster toasts toast, and the roomate toaster toasts pedals.

[sfr]

As far as the dremel aspect - when dremeling is necessary, i found two bits that help a lot - rather than using the regular cut off wheels, get the diamond tipped cut-off wheels.  I think mine isn't actually a dremel brand one, but a craftsman one from Sears, or something, and seems to hold up better than the Dremel one I used to have.  But yeah, those will work better than the fiberglass wheels ("checkboard" look brown ones)  

Also, for making holes bigger I have use a tungsten carbide cutter.   It looks kind of like a flat-headed drill bit, and I've been using the same one to enlarge holes and what not on a variety projects that have taken me through several sets of drill bits, and it does a better job sometimes for cutting to enlarge things than using a cutoff wheel.  Whatever you do, make sure you don't use these to try and enlarge a project box - my friend did (after I failed to explain in good detail what bit I meant) did and it wasn't so cool.  


Also, for squaring off holes, if you want them really square, rather than using a cutting wheel (even if can get it to go in good and not hop around, the fact that it's a round wheel means making yr edges line up right isn't gonna work) I've found the best bet is to drill a round hole as wide as yr square, carve it out up and down with the above bit if yr doing a rectangle and not a sqaure and then use a small metal hacksaw blade to cut out the corners - the kind where you can take the blade off and thread it through the whole and then attach it back to the hacksaw frame, that sorta thing.


But drilling holes on the side does suck - anyone have any good tips?  I have a little work bench with two boards that you can crank apart/together and I kind of use that to clamp it between.  And make sure i have a real good centerpunch so my drill bits don't move around too much before they grab - but pretty much it's always a pain in the ass.

[ExpAnonColin]

In terms of drilling holes... This is how I found it is a LOT easier.

Let's say you need a 3/8" hole, for a 1/4" jack.  First, take a small drill bit, about 3/16" or so, and put it on your drill.  Start the drill really really slowly... and basically make a very small indent on the box to try to prevent it from slipping all over the place.  Then, use the 3/16" to drill the hole through-it's very very easy for such a small hole.  Once you've got it through, put on the 3/8", use the newly made hole as the huge indent... it  goes MUCH easier this way.

If can't get the whole 3/16" indent thing down, I find just hitting a nail onto the box works fine too.

[aron]

Yes, a punch works too.

[Rodgre]

A Punch!  Brilliant! I didn't know if you could get a small hand punch to work on aluminum boxes. Aron, is there one that you suggest? I would MUCH rather use a punch than to make a mess with a dremel tool.

Roger

[Paul T]

I found a way to making the paint even more durable on a pedal:

First, I drill the holes, sand and clean the enclosure.

Then, I put the unfinished pedal in an oven for about 1/2 hour. The metal (in this case, aluminium) heats up and expands... this means that the "pores" in the aluminium open up.

I take the pedal out of the oven, and spray a primer coat. The pedal being very hot, the primer coat litterally soaks into the pores. When the paint is dry, I sand it and put on a second primer coat. Then, I put the pedal in the oven, again, for about 15 minutes.

I then repeat this process for each finishing coat of paint and lacquer.

This process of always heating the pedal BEFORE and AFTER applying paint works really well.

I think the trick is to put on a thick primer coat (multiple layers, of course), because the finishing coat has a good surface to stick on.

Heating the pedal will make the paint dry hard, while evaporating the oil in the chemical composition. The oil is what makes paint sticky !!!

Good luck, See ya !

[Alpha579]

diggin' up a old thread here...

heres a stupid question: what do you guys put your boxes on when the lacquer is drying? because i always seem to get some stuff off the thing im laying it on to stick to the box!!!  :oops:  :evil:  i also get a slight build up of lacquer on the bottom of the pedal...reckon im just using to much?

thx,

Alex

[Outlaws]

I love making pedals. I love plugging in the finished product and hitting the switch and making noise.

What I don't love is finishing the boxes. Is there anyone out there who can say that drilling and painting these blasted things is "easy"?

Thats funny becuase I am the exact opposite.

I like drilling the boxes  (probably cuase I have a drill press lol It just makes it so much more fun) and painting them, but I hate plugging them in becuase is like 9-1 odds that it flat out won't work.   :wink:

EDIT:
I just realized this thread is a year and a half old.

[David]

diggin' up a old thread here...

heres a stupid question: what do you guys put your boxes on when the lacquer is drying? because i always seem to get some stuff off the thing im laying it on to stick to the box!!!  :oops:  :evil:  i also get a slight build up of lacquer on the bottom of the pedal...reckon im just using to much?

thx,

Alex

Interesting.  I tried this yesterday.  I used fairly abrasive sandpaper on a Raco box and cover to give kind of a brushed look.  That was followed by a once-over with light steel wool.  Looked pretty good.  Just for grins and experimental purposes, I shot the box with a quick, light coat of clear spray lacquer.  Yeah, one coat.  Only shook it for 10 sec instead of a minute.  Still seemed to come out nice, though.  Shiny, clear, no streaks.  Dried so fast it didn't have time to stick.  Definitely will have to try this again with more coats!

[boogielicious]

I've always used a combo of alcohol and acetone when painting any metal.  They are two slighly different solvents.  Ethanol is a polar solvent and will remove any water soluble material.  Acetone will go after what's left and it evaporates very fast.   If I sand first, it is with very fine paper like 800 grit.  Otherwise you have sanding marks to deal with.

Also, a drill press is a must.  You can get a decent one for real short money.  Less than some of our project pedals.

Have fun and be patient.

Scott

[KORGULL]

Alpha579 wrote:

what do you guys put your boxes on when the lacquer is drying? because i always seem to get some stuff off the thing im laying it on to stick to the box!!!

I keep them suspended while the laquer is drying.
I use a piece of wood, maybe 1" wide by 1/4" thick - like a marking stake - whatever length needed.
Drill some holes in it spaced far enough apart so the boxes/bottom plates won't touch.
Run a long bolt through a hole from underneath the enclosure or bottom plate and then through the wood and fasten with a nut. A wingnut would probably be easiest. I use those spring loaded drywall anchors that come with long, thin bolts. I have two sizes - one is thin enough to fit through the screw holes in the bottom plate and the other wider one usually goes through  the LED hole in the enclosure.
Then I lay the piece of wood across the open top of a cardboard box and the items to be clear-coated hang about halfway down inside the cardboard box. I cut one side of the box to make a sort of hinged flap that can get pulled down for easy access when spraying. Between coats or for final drying I close the flap back up and cover the top with plastic sheeting.
I'm sure there are many other ways to make something similar. I just used what I had around.
I still get some excess laquer build up on the bottom too (from overzealous spraying), but this box has really cut out the dust/debris problems.
It's easier to move freshly painted items to and from the oven without touching the paint when you can carry them by the bolts also.