Synth Stompbox

[New Frontier]

Hello All,

I'm trying to find some effect wich will give me a sound like the songs on the Iron Maiden's Somewhere in Time album
I know they used synthetized guitars to record that album, but I'd like to know if I can use a stompbox to reach that kind of sound...

It would be nice if it where not too hard to build  

Tks

[Paul Marossy]

I was working on a design for something like that, but it is pretty complicated and I still haven't achieved what I wanted to.

I do remember a few discussions on this topic. Here is one that you could try, DSE Mini-Synth: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/msynth.html

I have heard good stuff about this one by Robert Penfold, too: http://ampage.org/hammer/files/GuitarP2V.PDF

And here's another one by Electro-Harmonix: http://ampage.org/hammer/files/EH-Guitar-Synth.ZIP

I don't think any of these would be classified as an easy build.

[Mark Hammer]

I don't know what Iron Maiden happened to use for the number in question, but much of the time what people mean when they say "synth sound" and they're not talking about Pat Metheny or Alan Holdsworth, they mean something that has a swept filter and octaves.  The swept filter could be envelope-controlled, or it could be a fixed envelope generator triggered by note/event detection.  The octave (either up or down) could be a device that does pitch-to-voltage conversion and drives a bank of VCOs or it could simply be an octave divider or octave-up pedal.

The E-H Microsynth provided most, if not all, of these features and sounds, and that's probably the reason for its continued existence.  Another reason for its continuance is that it requires no special instrument or pickup to use, merely thoughtful picking technique.  Unless there are album credits that specifically note "guitar synthesizer" (which would imply a special guitar/pickup arrangement), there is a pretty good chance it is the E-H unit.

A combination of octave down and envelope filter pedals can often be used to produce very "unguitarlike" sounds, especially if you can process the octave and guitar sound separately (e.g., octave down goes to filter which gets mixed back in with fuzzed guitar).  

One of the other project articles I have posted is the "Harmony Generator" (scroll way down), which will produce intervals other than simple octaves.  Often having notes staggered across an interval (e.g., a 5th) produces a sound character people might refer to as synth-like.

[Brian Marshall]

IVL guitar synths.  i believe you can buy them off of ebay for nothing these days.

there is about a 100ms delay for note attack.

[ExpAnonColin]

Paul... thank you soooooo much.  I was looking all over the net for more info on PLL based devices.  Thank you thank you thank you.  You've enlightened me.

-Colin

[Lonehdrider]

It seems the EH MicroSynth is reissued? Not sure if its the same as the old one but MF has it here:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040317214940068003064127740681/g=guitar/s=effects/search/detail/base_pid/153308/

Pricey rascal though.. I've played a few real midi guitar sythn's, nothing real current, old ones didn't track real well, but I'm sure the newer roland stuff is way way better, but these days if I can't carry it under my arm or in the back of my combo amp, then it stays home... Getting old does that to ya, from big twin cab stacks to fender blues jr's or other small combo's *sigh* .. haha..

Regards,

Lone

[Gringo]

The other day i heard the strokes' "12:51" and really liked the lead guitar sound. It seems that some kind of sinth/heavy processing is used, but i have no idea how it's done.

Anyone knows?

[Tim Escobedo]

That Strokes tune sounds like a real synth to me.

[bobbletrox]

Yeah, I think that's a real synth.  It looks like Nick Valensi or whatever his name is is playing the line on his guitar in the video just for show.

[cedric]

Yeah, I think that's a real synth.  It looks like Nick Valensi or whatever his name is is playing the line on his guitar in the video just for show.

well he does the exact same thing (same sound/texture) as well when they play live.
i was anxious to see that exact number when they played here - a voila; exact same sound. so i don't know if he's got something cool on his board or he just fakes it..
hope he kinda doesn't fake it, you know?
sounds like a guitar patched through a little casio keyboard. doesn't it?

that'd be nice.

[Arno van der Heijden]

GUITAR PLAYER, DEC 03

However, you constructed the most unique guitar sound on the album - the synth-like tone for the melody riffs in "12:51."
Valensi: Yeah, well how that came about wasn't really a fluke, but it happened in a weird way. I was playing these silly jazz things using my neck pickup and with the guitar's tone control rolled all the way down, and I accidentally stepped on the DeVille's channel-switching footpedal. The gain on that channel was on 12, and all of a sudden the tone sounded like an analog-synth sound - or, a weird heavy-metal, Joe Satriani tone [laughs]. Julian was the one who really saw the possibilities of that tone for "12:51." So I played along with his vocal melody, doubled the part, and that was it. It was all a bit of an accident - I was just trying to get a nice jazz tone - but it sounded cool. The DeVilles didn't really like that tone, though. I blew up three of them.

[Paul Marossy]

You're welcome, welcome, welcome anonymous.  

[Hairston]

I do remember a few discussions on this topic. Here is one that you could try, DSE Mini-Synth: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/msynth.html

...SNIP!

I have a touched-up electronic layout for DSE MiniSynth if anybody wants to try it out. Send me an IM here with your e-mail address.

It's not the greatest effect for guitars, but it's fun to play with. The octave down synth effect is pretty cool.

-HB

[Mark Hammer]

There are some interesting and simple single-board analog synth projects available at Ray Wilson's site (http://atlas.csd.net/~rjwsoft/synthesizer.html), Motohiko Takeda's site (linkable from Ray's at http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/synthdiy_links.html ), and Tom G's site (http://www.ele4music.com/).

Such synths can be used in a few ways.  You can use them as "processors" by providing them with a trigger/gate pulse and an audio signal only.  The oscillators become relatively off-limits and lame-duck modules in that usage, although the envelope generators, VCAs, filters, etc remain available.  Or, you can use them as actual synths by using some sort of pitch to voltage conversion and feeding a voltage to the VCOs in addition to the trigger/gate pulse.  The processor route can be monophonic or polyphonic, but the synth route is decidedly single-note

[Steve C]

Most of that Iron Maiden album was recorded with regular guitars through Gallien Kruger 250ML amplifiers.  On them they had a push-button for a preset chorus and also for an echo.  Most the characteristics of the main sound is that chorus engaged.  If you catch the Metal Show on Fuse TV they'll sometimes play the video for "Wasted Years" and you can see the amps in the video.

It was the first real amp that I owned, they were pretty small about a foot and a half wide and maybe a foot tall and 100watts with two small 5" speakers in them which would be bypassed when you used the speaker out options on the back of the unit.

Anyway that chorus was real distinct and that's where the main sound for that album came from.

[MarkB]

I've never seen a schem for those (GK ML250).. but a guy I used to work with (ran sound for his old band) had a couple of the heads.. modified.. to get a WICKED metal sound..  I think he still uses them in his current band based on the guitar sound..
http://www.deadstar.com/
I'd love to get a hold of one to mod it.. the thing really rocked.
"-)

[troubledtom]

i like roland vg-88's and their guitar synths. then it's alphawave time.
- tom

[Paul Marossy]

I also think that Roland VG8_ guitar synth is very cool. The only thing is that you have to put that pickup apparatus on your guitar, if it isn't already on there. Fender sells Roland-ready Strats.

I wouldn't mind having one of these to play with.

[Dan N]

I do remember a few discussions on this topic. Here is one that you could try, DSE Mini-Synth: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/msynth.html

...SNIP!

I have a touched-up electronic layout for DSE MiniSynth if anybody wants to try it out. Send me an IM here with your e-mail address.

It's not the greatest effect for guitars, but it's fun to play with. The octave down synth effect is pretty cool.

-HB

I have laid out a single channel of this noise freak that can be shoe-horned into a BB enclosure.
Now I'm building the P2V. Maybe running that into the DSE oscillator will be interesting?

[Hairston]

For those of you requesting the etchable layout of the DSE MiniSynth PCB, here is a link:

http://home.lehighone.com/rmetzger/MiniSynth_PCB.zip

ENJOY!
- HB