this looks really cool!Is it worth it

[pbsk8er03]

^^^well the title tells u my question^^^^
Ive built the arons boost and i wanna mod my ds-1 so do u think this is worht it???

http://www.guitartone.net/#comp-kit

[Fret Wire]

Those type of kits work. Not sure what's in his kit. It's like a TS-9 kit, everything is in one kit. You can also order everything else yourself and save money. Go to Fuzz Central and look at Phillip's DS-1 mods. All proven mods in one site. Nice and easy. You can also order enough components to mod more than one pedal.  

http://fuzzcentral.tripod.com/DS1.html

[Mark Hammer]

They CAN be, but it depends on what it is you find lacking or desirable about the stock pedal, and how easy it is for you to get parts in yuor region.  Obviously if you live in one of those places where its Radio Shack or nothing, having everything compiled into one order is a convenience.  Still, it has to either a) come with the sort of documentation you can learn from, b) be a ridiculously low price for that constellation of parts, or c) produce *exactly* the right tone you are looking for.

Generally speaking, people will notice what they believe to be an improvement.  of course, since A/B comparison of the pre-mod and post-mod pedals are often difficult if not impossible for many folks, whether that perceived improvement is a real one is another matter.  As such, I would not even depend on testimonials of those who have carried out the mods.  That's not to say that anyone is lying or that the guitartone folks are ripping anyone off.  It's just difficult to know exactly what was improved upon in any reliable manner, or if it just sounds better to you because you spent all that money and put in all that work.  If it comes with any sort of explanation of what each part replacement does, then I would suggest it is worthwhile for the learning alone.  If you come out of it knowing more then its an investment for other pedals as well.

[YouAre]

I bought it, it was good for me cuz i knew NOTHING about pedal modding before that, it helped me out alot....unfortunately i messed up 3 pedals because i modded them alot...but its good for learning how to mod, but i wouldnt buy it just for indy's mod values, i just learned what to switch out, and played until i got my own values.

[brett]

A bit OT.

Generally speaking, people will notice what they believe to be an improvement. of course, since A/B comparison of the pre-mod and post-mod pedals are often difficult if not impossible for many folks, whether that perceived improvement is a real one is another matter.

There's a famous old study involving the "Asch" test, where people are asked which is the shortest of 3 sticks.  The 3 sticks are 1", 2" and 3", so the answer is easy.  But when tested in a group, if the person in line ahead of the test subject said the 2" stick, 4% of the test subjects also chose that (obviously wrong) stick.  If 2 people ahead of the test subject said the 2" stick, then even more test subjects chose the wrong stick.  By the time 3 people ahead of the test subject were saying that the answer was the 2" stick, AND the group was told that there was a cash reward if everyone in the group got the right answer, a massive 46% of the test subjects were saying that the 2" stick was the shortest.

My personal pick for a 2" stick in pedal-building is the fuzzface.  We all stand in line behind a hundred people who point to the fuzzface as the magic one.

cheers

[wampcat1]

Actually, its not really geared towards someone such as yourself, who is very knowledgeable already in this stuff!
I put guitartone.net together, to help folks who didn't have the money to spend on getting several pedals modded, and wanted to learn how to do it theirselves.

There ARE quite dramatically noticeable differences--check out the soundclips of my other site: http://www.indyguitarist.com/pedalmods.htm

Now granted--its hard to determine all characteristics of a guitar tone, by a mp3 on computer speakers. But--monster players with great ears such as Brent Mason love my stuff, so I must be doing something right!

Now, NO--ABSOLUTELY NO--it doesn't tell you what in a technical way of what each part does. Honestly-most people could care less what a capacitor does technically. They want to know 'how do I get more bass? How do I make it thicker? How can I make it louder?'. THAT'S what I provide. If a person wants to learn the technical side, there are many many great sites for that (such as THIS ONE!! ), but take a thread a few weeks ago for example, I think a fellow was asking about what each part does specifically when building a pedal--most people who replied thought that the poster should do more studying...I on the other hand, started immediately writing an ebook on doing just that!! OPPORTUNITY--at its finest.

Anyway, this isn't meant as a slam toward you, or anyone else mark--alot of you guys on here are some seriously smart cookies, and more than likely know a ton more than me, analogman, keeley, or whoever about the technical side of this. We just know how to wrap it up into a product better and market it!!

Thanks,
Brian
indyguitarist.com and guitartone.net

They CAN be, but it depends on what it is you find lacking or desirable about the stock pedal, and how easy it is for you to get parts in yuor region.  Obviously if you live in one of those places where its Radio Shack or nothing, having everything compiled into one order is a convenience.  Still, it has to either a) come with the sort of documentation you can learn from, b) be a ridiculously low price for that constellation of parts, or c) produce *exactly* the right tone you are looking for.

Generally speaking, people will notice what they believe to be an improvement.  of course, since A/B comparison of the pre-mod and post-mod pedals are often difficult if not impossible for many folks, whether that perceived improvement is a real one is another matter.  As such, I would not even depend on testimonials of those who have carried out the mods.  That's not to say that anyone is lying or that the guitartone folks are ripping anyone off.  It's just difficult to know exactly what was improved upon in any reliable manner, or if it just sounds better to you because you spent all that money and put in all that work.  If it comes with any sort of explanation of what each part replacement does, then I would suggest it is worthwhile for the learning alone.  If you come out of it knowing more then its an investment for other pedals as well.

[wampcat1]

Here's a good example, Mark:

Tubescreamer circuits--many people complain about the mids, and the nasal qualities. You see it in threads on here over and over.

Now, a person can either explain the different rc filters on the tubescreamer, and point to the geofex article on tubescreamers,

OR...

You can tell them to change the capacitor going to the center lug on the tone point. It's a .22 tant stock, change it to a 2.2 uf film to make the tone pot into more of a mid frequency adjuster. You can actually make it scooped by changing this ONE capacitor.

Now, I'll bet a six pack that 95% of the people that have tubescreamers and don't like them really don't care why it does that. They just want to know "where do I get the part to modify it, and where is the location on the circuit board?"

Seriously!



Brian

[Mark Hammer]

Brian,

It would seem that the documentation you provide is in the ballpark of what a large proportion of prospective buyers would want/need.  I suspect that if they could readily digest a more technical explanation then they probably already know enough to pose the question here, get an answer or opinion, and do the work all by themselves thereafter.  In many respects, providing the parts and some words is probably a sweeter deal than shipping your pedal off somewhere, forgetting what it used to sound like, having some minor changes carried out, then getting it back and *thinking* that it sounds totally different without knowing what was done.

Any caveats I utter about mod kits are more in the direction of "Don't expect miracles or final words", and certainly not in the direction of "what a ripoff!".  I'm sure you, as well as many other players/builders/modders here recognize that it is somewhat common to find that a given pedal never really "comes to rest".  Especially when it comes to clipping devices.  Unless one makes a real point of hemming in one's style and song choice, it will be rare to find that a pedal, once modded, makes you happy forever.  There will always be that one more thing you think you'd like to change.

And in that sense, when someone starting out asks me "Is it worth it?", I need to tell them that this sort of package will help them learn a bit, and likely produce an audible change, but the way some folks define "worth it" there needs to be an outcome which will never need changing.  And quite frankly, you and I know that's not gonna happen, regardless of how much you bust your chops to assemble an "ideal" set of replacement components at a decent price.

So, to the original poster, expect as much as is reasonable, and it may make you quite happy....for a while.  Once you start talking to the rest of us, though, and all those twisted little ideas of ours start seeping into your head, :twisted: you may just find yourself yanking out those parts and sticking other ones in....maybe.

[wampcat1]

How true!!!

The cliched 'search for tone' is a bit of a fallacy, isn't it!  :lol:

Just when your happy, your mind starts to wonder... what would happen if I did ...THIS!! And all of a sudden your back on that windy road, trying to find 'your tone'!

I hope you don't think I was being a jerk or anything--I didn't mean anything like that. I was simply pointing out that most of the folks who frequent websites such as this (myself included), are probably the sort of folk who like the details, and the infinite possibilites with sticking electrical components in a certain order to achieve a beautiful sound! My wife says that's the 'geek' in me--I tell her its artistry!! The same as an artist painting a picture, just a different medium.

Your 100% right, though-I want to clarify-I don't think a person ever COULD be happy with just one sound, and even if they DID feel they were happy, inevitably without a doubt, at some point in time they will search out another pedal/guitar/amp/what have you -- because what they have currently is close, but 'just not perfect!'  

Also, let me take a second and tell you that many of us appreciate your posts (and everyone who helps the people with the questions!) on this board--like I said, I learn alot here, and I suspect many others in the pedal biz do as well here!!

Thanks,
Brian

Brian,

It would seem that the documentation you provide is in the ballpark of what a large proportion of prospective buyers would want/need.  I suspect that if they could readily digest a more technical explanation then they probably already know enough to pose the question here, get an answer or opinion, and do the work all by themselves thereafter.  In many respects, providing the parts and some words is probably a sweeter deal than shipping your pedal off somewhere, forgetting what it used to sound like, having some minor changes carried out, then getting it back and *thinking* that it sounds totally different without knowing what was done.

Any caveats I utter about mod kits are more in the direction of "Don't expect miracles or final words", and certainly not in the direction of "what a ripoff!".  I'm sure you, as well as many other players/builders/modders here recognize that it is somewhat common to find that a given pedal never really "comes to rest".  Especially when it comes to clipping devices.  Unless one makes a real point of hemming in one's style and song choice, it will be rare to find that a pedal, once modded, makes you happy forever.  There will always be that one more thing you think you'd like to change.

And in that sense, when someone starting out asks me "Is it worth it?", I need to tell them that this sort of package will help them learn a bit, and likely produce an audible change, but the way some folks define "worth it" there needs to be an outcome which will never need changing.  And quite frankly, you and I know that's not gonna happen, regardless of how much you bust your chops to assemble an "ideal" set of replacement components at a decent price.

So, to the original poster, expect as much as is reasonable, and it may make you quite happy....for a while.  Once you start talking to the rest of us, though, and all those twisted little ideas of ours start seeping into your head, :twisted: you may just find yourself yanking out those parts and sticking other ones in....maybe.