Rm treble booster?

[jimbob]

This is a link to a range master treble booster. Looks expensive! Is the treble boosters we (DIY) make close to this one. It would be nice to think we make something like this for sooo much less than that price. Ive never used one of these. Whats so great about these rangemasters? Opinions?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040729231006068086037202648066/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/153142/

and

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040729231006068086037202648066/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/153141/

and

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040729231006068086037202648066/g=guitar/search/detail/base_pid/153143/

Identical to the Orange Treble & Bass Booster made in the late '60s and used by David Gilmour of Pink Floyd. This new edition uses the same OC76 germanium diode transistors as the original. The OR model includes a tone control offering a ton of versatility. Set to maximum it produces a glassy tone; a mid setting produces punch with emphasized mids; when set to minimum, it produces very bassy tone with fat bottom. Handmade in Germany.

[tcobretti]

If these aren't the exact same things we build, they're very similar.  One of my next projects is gonna be a rangemaster (as soon as small bear comes back on line).  I did build a Brian May Treble Booster which is basically a silicon RM and I totally love it.  GGG sells pcbs if you want to go the easy way (like me) and they are very simple to build.  

I should add that they are great pedals, but only if you're plugging them into a good amp.  I would describe them as intensifying the qualities of your amp; so if your amp kinda sucks, a RM is only gonna make things worse.

[petemoore]

Well if Tony used that particular unit...lol
 Who knows. Depends on the transistor I guess, for the most part...
 I like the 7th? Rangemaster I built, can't tell you anything about how that one sounds, having never heard of, heard, or seen one till the above link. Rangemaster, I know, sometimes I just skeptical I guess.
 Yupp you only need to build one, but with tunable bias, then search for the rare dinosaur egg...I guess these guys found a 'clutch' of them...stating the 50's transistor thing...there is a shelf life on these transistor units...
 I'd say if the price bothers you, you're best bet is to build one with adjustable bias, and go from there.
 Better yet, order your Rangemaster transistor;s; from Steve at Small Bear, I think the bias resistors values come with teh Q unit. You will probably notice differences from one transistor to the next, SB Rangemaster transistors are measured for Hfe and tested for leakage.
 there's an in depth article on Rangemasters at GEO
 Some of the Rangemasters I referred to building were actually Apollo and Orange treble/treble and bass boosters.

[Steben]

Pretty disgusted by the price too ;-)

I just made a rangemaster thing ( in a search to get a Jimmy page sound -> see my recent topic about it ): It cost about 20â,¬ (25$?)
about a 10th of their price, uhum...

[black mariah]

So why is it that you guys have such a problem with the price of these things, but the price of a Klon Centaur or a ZVex pedal is just fine? The majority of the price is for labor. Not parts, not design, but assembly. As I've asked before, how much is your time worth?

[STOMPmole]

I'm a Noob here, but it seems to me that for the price you would get a painted box (not bare aluminum), maybe silk screened labels (not a cheap-@ssed sticker), a nice looking knob (not a $0.10 surplus electronics looking thing), some nice jacks, and maybe a 3pdt with an indicator LED.
I'm guessing the BSM boosters use a PCB so assembly shouldn't be THAT labor intensive.

For my 1st project I've chosen the RM Treble Booster because it seems fairly simple.

So far I've spent about $50 in parts from Smallbear and Mouser (and I'll have plenty of wire and stuff left over for other projects), I bought a drill press to help with drilling the boxes for $88, I spent $10 in paint, I bought a toaster oven to bake the enamel finish for $10 (after rebate), I purchased a new soldering station for $49, got a $6 3pdt switch from Aron, bought a Unibit at Home Depot for $30, and plan on spending about 4 hours to complete the project for $40 (since the construction of this project isn't brain surgery and I'm doing it for fun and not to get rich I'll only charge $10 an hour).  If you total it up I've invested about $283 on my treble booster.  When I'm done I'll (hopefully) have a great sounding, hand-wired, terrific looking pedal...and I will have gained $valuable experience, had fun, and aquired several tools that I can use over and over again for future projects.

Are you telling me BSM who buys parts in bulk, has templates for drilling, pro tools, and PCB's can't afford to sell that pedal for any less than what it would cost me to make one starting from scratch without most of the tools?  They must be making a HEALTHY profit!

[BD13UK]

I had and used a Rangemaster with an AC 30 for many years in the late 60's early 70's there are very few parts internally and it was built on tag board material, a design of which is available at Geo, it wasn't very effective until the amp was running at least above half way and worked similarly to a FF in that it was controllable from the guitar volume and would clean up when backed off etc, it could be rather noisy and sounded like a scout troop frying bacon at times but there wasn't really much available at that time as an alternative except perhaps the FF and Tonebender, I don't really want to get into the cost factor of boutique or other pedals but this does seem a shade expensive for what it is, I've never tried a Klon and I certainly wouldn't be tempted to purchase one on the strength of the sound clips at the site as I've heard that sound a thousand times from pedals a lot cheaper than a Klon but it must do something I'm not as yet aware of as it's certainly seems to be a popular pedal.

[R.G.]

sigh...

Read the Guitar Effects FAQ at GEO.

[Doug_H]

;lkj

[petemoore]

I'ts 'picky' for a booster...if everything else is just 'so' people report that they have the rarest baddest 1 transistor distortion.
 I got N/P with what people charge for finished units of anything. Maybe it seems high, 200+ for a booster...I thought about trying to squeeze a buck out of building circuits, there is competition, lots of options...
 I'm just wondering about the transistor's', if it's got the rare egg in it, better than the next egg down the block...my exp with these is that they seem to work better with the 'right' tranny in there.
 I've heard posted soundclips of purported Rangemasters that sound like a FF with a small incap...I never got anything like that out of one.
 Blind typing...without the actual unit, and Iommi's unit [May's?] sitting next to each other, and an A/b  comparison, nevermind...
 Resistance is futile, just build it...good motto.
 Rangemaster is a rather affordable build, with the right board you can try different transistors, then get the boutique thing and compare...I think theyre dependant on being placed in the 'correct' system....guitar>Rangemaster>amp ...to my use, a rather demanding little booster.
 My take on them is that they do well if:
 You have the 'right' amp
 You have the pick of some rare transistors to try in it, or you've got a tested one [or three?]
 You have it driven directly from a guitar pickup
 It is driving a tube
 Everything in the signal chain is optimally 'tuned'
 The weather doesn't bother it
 You can crank the 'correct' amp up
 Other than those issues, I think the Rangemaster can be accomodating..lol.
 My buddies say "let me plug that in my amp' [transistor or modeling amps]...you should hear what comes out sometimes and the looks on their faces  :oops:  "I thought you said this thing rocks"..." it does...through my tube amps'
 I see the Rangemaster as a 'system item' for a setup that does a certain 'unique' thing, and somewhat more dependant on the rest of the chain being in place than many effects.

[bwanasonic]

Echoing Pete's post:

Always keep in mind the era when the original RM flourished. If you have a setup that resembles a late 60s - early 70s one (relatively low output PASSIVE pickups, *vintage* style tube amp cranked, very few FX, especially no buffered FX before the RM) , you should enjoy the RM. Another poster recently mentioned good results with a DIY RM into a small SS practice amp, but I'm not sure that would be a typical result.

Kerry M

[Ed G.]

So why is it that you guys have such a problem with the price of these things, but the price of a Klon Centaur or a ZVex pedal is just fine? The majority of the price is for labor. Not parts, not design, but assembly. As I've asked before, how much is your time worth?

Exactly! It makes what we do even better! When your wife asks you why you're ordering parts again, or need that new soldering station, point to that ad and explain all the money you're saving! Just check out musictoyz.com and see the idiots there extolling the virtues of their latest $400 tubescreamer clone or $200 clean boost.

[petemoore]

Related to that Led Zep II sound thread...
 Quote "I'ts All in the Hands"
 Can be interpreted [misconstrued?] as meaning:
 In the hand shake, and everything that goes with it between musicians as clientel, [including vibes and cash] and Manufacturers or dealers... back in the day, when it was more experimental, when the only feedback attained by new experiments was 'his' own, not everybody could hang with the cash thing, getting your hands on a great rig back then was as tricky as it is these days, but with fewer supplies, not everybody was into it or could afford these [then] new devices, probably alot like shopping for equipment today, you would need cash clout, but with intuition and persistance playing a role too.
 It wouuld seem that these 'magic' Ge Devices were at one time rare, the Rangemaster gaining a nickname 'sectret weapon', most of us know that it takes tweeking of these circuits for optimal performance, the
'unpredictable' transistor selection also playing a large role in the circuits performance, each unit performing differently, having to be matched to a setup etc.
 I still haven't figured out if some of these units used sliced germanuim base material which has been long out of production, or whatever difference that would make, all but the early runs of Ge transistors are made from a purified, pressed Ge powder material, and are more consistant one unit to the next than the early ones were. Even now it is still 'hit or miss'.
 The Rangemaster has a spotty record of use by those trying to fit it in as a piece of 'another puzzle'...kind of like a piece of a certain kind of pie...without the right ingredients in the right amounts, [this includes amp etc.] the flavor might be 'off'...

[lenwood]

I'm new to effect building. I read the FAQ here and the one on www.geofex.com. Pete mentioned building the rangemaster with adjustable bias. So I have socketed my rangemaster clone to try different transistors. So would I make the emitter resistor a trimmer to help dial in the right bias? Will that be enough?
Oh I also socketed the caps to change the orientation if using NPN.

Thanks,

[Hal]

the thing is, you put a high price tag on it, and "serious" musicians, maybe gutiar players who just got their first record deal, or first east coast tour will be like "wow this thing is good." ANd the price will cloud their ears.  They think that its "professional" and they need something "professional," and are willing to spend $300 on a "professional" pedal.  And yes, you can get a record deal and an east coast tour with very little talent.

And im sure "booteek" rangemasters enter the $500+ price range...

[petemoore]

To be honest...I socketted 'or' trimpotted most of the resistors on the Rmaster board...test jig style.
 On the GEO schematic IIRC theres'a a resistor from ground with a '?' by it...that one should be re-valuated per transistor swap for sure.
 Each transistor needs a different bias [probably] go by the voltages in the GEO Rangemaster article [I downloaded and printed...so I could study up in my spare time]...
 Anyway you should be able to get a decent bias, but it may take some fiddling with values..a 'tested' transistor, or a few to try out in it...
 Probly worth getting breadboard for, or build a test jig on perf...

[Ben N]

Out in the commerical world where the avg guitarist doesn't know one end of the soldering iron from the other,

Ouch! :cry:

I'm guessing the BSM boosters use a PCB so assembly shouldn't be THAT labor intensive.

The labor is not in the assembly, it is in testing and sorting the devices and biasing.  They are labor intensive.  Also, while there aren't many parts, keep in mind that an NOS germanium transistor can cost ten times a garden variety BJT or FET, and, anyway, the real parts cost is in the mechanical parts rather than the electronic ones, and that doesn't change.  And I'm sure even assembly costs this guy more than the big mfrrs, who have semi-automated assembly lines in Indonesia & China.  Hey, if people will pay the money, God bless him!  IMO, nobody around here should complain about the cost of a simple pedal like that--just be glad you can make it yourself.
Just M2c.
Ben

[tcobretti]

I agree with Ben.  IF these pedals are properly biased so that every one sounds great, than the time spent would be worth the money to somebody who couldn't do it themselves.  

Have you guys seen this site?

http://www.treblebooster.com/yellowjackets.htm

They sell si and ge treble boosters for a more reasonable price, and they sell these way cool yellow jackets.

[lenwood]

Ok, thanks Pete.
Looks like I'm gonna socket the rest of it , install some trims and also re-read the GEO article for sure. I use a perf style board so I'll just change the layout so I can plug in some trims and use it as a testbed for this circuit. Thanks for the help.

here's the article if anyone is interested:
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Rangemaster/atboost.pdf

[black mariah]

I can attest to the "Don't know one end of a soldering iron from the other" statement. I haven't met any other guitarists that can solder, let alone build their own pedals. You guys take your skills for granted. No matter how easy you think it is, you're wrong. It's very difficult, especially for people that haven't built anything before. It's a learning process just like anything else, and while a Rangemaster is a cakewalk for you guys, for someone like me it would be a massive pain in the arse and for someone that can barely solder or read a schematic... it's impossible.