OT: Computer Recording Setups

[aaronkessman]

Hi guys,

I'd like to get a little recording setup happening on a home PC. I'll only be recording myself on guitar, bass, and vocal. So I need a setup that allows me to record and mix 8 tracks of music. Obviously, I don't want to break the bank on this, but I'm still looking for good quality - better than scratch demos, but doesnt need to be pro-quality. I know a lot of you guys record at your home pc's, so i'm looking for your opinions on how to go about this.

1. what computer specs do i need to meet? obviously I don't need a gaming-quality graphics card, but what about the sound card, any recommendations here?

2. software?

3. other hardware/peripherals? ie, speakers, microphones, etc.

I'll be buying everything and startin from scratch...

thanks for your input!

Aaron

[markusw]

If you just need to record two tracks at the same time this thing works pretty fine: http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122.html It has two micro preamps but you can also go in directly with guitar or bass (it has settings for this purpose). I´ve got one of those and it works great even with my notebook (2,6 GHz, 512MB) It also has a direct monitoring option, so latency is not an issue. If I remember it right there is a software package included but I use Cubase SX.

Furthermore you can use it in combination with a software osci.

For the mics you can go with a SM57 for guitar and a SM58 for vocals.

Have fun,

Markus

[aaronkessman]

So basically all I'll need is something like this as an input/interface between instrument and computer, the software it provides (or something like Cubase) and then a good sound card/speakers?

why do you use cubase and not say, protools or something else?

thanks,

Aaron

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
.there's your software sorted for cheap!

[aaronkessman]

also, whats the difference between this little Tascam unit and one of those small digital 4 track recorders? I understand that I'd have to record to a smart card or something before I can manipulate the audio tracks on the computer software, but besides that, if I got a mini 4-track wouldnt i get the added benefit of portability? :?

Aaron

[markusw]

difference between this little Tascam unit and one of those small digital 4 track recorders?

The price. The Tascam unit is relatively cheap, but if you want to have it portable you have to use a notebook. By the way, it comes with an ASIO driver so you can also use it with a midi keyboard for playing software synths like the stuff made by Native Instruments without having to worry about latency (somewhere in the range of 5 ms).

I use Cubase SX because it is really more than sufficient for my demands.

[aaronkessman]

well, the price diff between the 2 isnt toooo great. I can get any one those digital 4-tracks on ebay for $200 - about the same as a new US-122. in terms of functionality, then, is there big a difference? I mean, it seems like everything the us-122 can do, those digital recorders can do too.

Aaron

[Lonestarjohnny]

I've got a Boss Mini rcorder that use's the mini disk, does a great job recording and it work's well with most software. I'm useing nuendo's.
Johnny

[cd]

well, the price diff between the 2 isnt toooo great. I can get any one those digital 4-tracks on ebay for $200 - about the same as a new US-122. in terms of functionality, then, is there big a difference? I mean, it seems like everything the us-122 can do, those digital recorders can do too.

Aaron

The price difference is not that great now, but you pay a huge price for portability - check out the prices of large Smartmedia cards.  Those mini recorders are toys, IMHO.  You have to record at a low bitrate (lower sound quality) in order to get any kind of decent recording time with the included card.  At that lower sound quality level, you might as well save yourself some $$$ and get a used cassette based 4-track.  Computer based recording/mixing software also has a lot more features (that you can grow into) as opposed to a mini 4-track.  

Spec-wise, for a computer it depends on the interface that you're using.  If you only want to record two tracks simultaneously, you can use whatever's built into your computer right now, provided you have some sort of mixer or DI box that you can plug your guitar and microphones into.  You don't have a mixer or DI?  You can always build one on your own (tons of schematics floating around the net, or buy the book "DIY Projects for Guitarists" by Craig Anderton).

If you want to record 4 or more tracks at a time, as well as MIDI, then you need some sort of interface (PCI, USB, Firewire) that will allow you to plug in all your instruments/mics at the same time and send the signal (as individual tracks) to your computer.  Something like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&ID=adf95efc30b88aba043fa8b83343bfb8

Don't forget to also budget $100-200 for a pair of high quality studio reference headphones.

[aaronkessman]

Yeah, those smart cards are a bit pricey, so I guess portability is out. I'd be recording at home mostly anyway.

If I had a DI box I could plug guitar and vox directly into my soundcard?

why use something like the US-122 then?

also, what about effects like compression, reverb, etc that i'd add during mixing? I've seen some of the plug-ins for protools and they're highly customizable. do other recording programs offer the same sort of flexibility?

Aaron

[cd]

Yeah, those smart cards are a bit pricey, so I guess portability is out. I'd be recording at home mostly anyway.

If I had a DI box I could plug guitar and vox directly into my soundcard?

why use something like the US-122 then?

Yup, with a DI or mixer you "convert" the high Z guitar signal to a low Z, line level signal, which your soundcard wants to see.  The US-122 acts like a DI, but it's also a MIDI interface, has audio outs, and digitizes the audio for you, etc.  Otherwise your computer's soundcard does the AD conversion, which may or may not be better than the US-122.

also, what about effects like compression, reverb, etc that i'd add during mixing? I've seen some of the plug-ins for protools and they're highly customizable. do other recording programs offer the same sort of flexibility?

Aaron

Forget about Protools, it requires proprietary hardware which costs an arm and a leg.  There's a free version of Protools which doesn't require hardware but there are way better programs out there that do the same thing.  You can try Adobe Audition (formerly known as Cool Edit Pro), that has support for multiple track recording and VST plug-ins, as well as a bunch of built in FX.

[aaronkessman]

awesome. now we're getting into the meat of what i wanted to know. I imagine a good quality soundcard would convert to digital at the same or better quality for lower price than the us-122?

any soundcards and other software you can recommend?

thanks ,

Aaron

[cd]

I imagine a good quality soundcard would convert to digital at the same or better quality for lower price than the us-122?

Not necessarily, I don't know what's inside the US-122 but the converters in most AC97 codec soundcards (most onboard sound) are pretty cheap.  Not horrible but nothing amazing either, good enough for roughing in things.  The latency can be a problem with onboard stuff as well (i.e. you play a note and you hear it in your speakers/headphones a split second later.)  The lower the latency, the better (obviously).

I use an Emu 1212M, it was only $200 and good enough for me (I do video editing and mostly use it for transferring cassette masters and other analog sound formats).  See here:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040813095917069158062226823865/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/242512/

[aaronkessman]

well that thing looks pretty comprehensive. how is the software?

if i got this, the only thing i'd need is a di box and im ready to record with some quality? (experience notwithstanding ;-))

[markusw]

Ater looking at the reviews you should go with the Emu. I fortunately have not had any problems with the US-122 up to know. And compared to the notebook internal crap card it´s HiFi anyway. The EMU is also a welcome "need" for a tube preamp. I have built a one channel Alembic preamp for my bass and it gives me a more than satisfying recorded sound even through a US-122. A friend of mine who is a sound engineer recently told me that "the Beatles would have given their legs if they could have gotten the sound you can get with that kind of home equipment".  For our band we are actually planning to get the 8 channel version of the EMU as a urgently needed replacement for our SB Audigy. However, to be sure just check e.g. the Cubase SX forum to see if soundcard and software are really compatible. But take care. You can become addicted to this stuff as easiliy as to stompboxes (and may find yourself collecting VST plugins.....and there are really nice ones!).

[aaronkessman]

the Emu will fit into a notebook computer???

[cd]

The EMU will not fit in a notebook, actually that's one of its downsides - you need a couple of free PCI slots for it to work properly.

The included software is mediocre, I'm used to Adobe Audition (have been using Cool Edit since it came out around 9 years ago).  Audition is fine for what I use it for (noise reduction, dynamics processing, general audio editing).  If you're doing recording, you might want to look at something more suited like Cubase.

[space_ryerson]

There are a number of detachable usb/firewire based in/out devices, that would maintain the portability of the notebook computer setup. They vary in price and quality, and would require some investigation as well. Most of them would work well enough for your purposes.

Some brands to check out:

MOTU, Tascam, M-Audio, Edirol (actually Roland, but I digress), presonus

also, read here to get an idea

I wouldn't worry too much about MIDI just yet, since there are many USB-based controllers that forgo the need for a midi interface.

I can't really suggest a good PC sequencing program, since I'm a apple guy...

good luck!

[aaronkessman]

cool, ill check these out. I still am not sure whether i'll go with a desktop or notebook PC. I'd like a notebook since it'll just be easier to use in my small room and just well, smaller. but price is an issue....

[travissk]

For desktops, the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 is a popular card. I think it's $120 or so? Further up the price range they have such things as the Delta 1010 (10 ins, 10 outs). How many things will you be recording at any time? If it's just you, the Audiophile or the Tascam that is mentioned will suit you fine.

As for software, depending on how professional you want to get and how much money you have, there is a huge range.

Free end - Audacity is open-source. We use it with Delta 1010's on Linux at CCRMA, and it performs pretty well. If you have money, I'd go with something else personally.

Low price - Cakewalk Guitar Tracks will do 8 tracks and is really cheap, I'm not sure if it's still in production. I've heard good things about N-Track studio, and Adobe Audition used to be Cool Edit, which is pretty good as well.

Middle of the road - The whole Cakewalk Sonar vs Cubase topic is something people never settle on; I prefer Cubase but try both and see what suits your needs. Sonar Pro is cheaper than Cubase SX.

High end stuff includes ProTools. We have ProTools set up at CCRMA as well; I haven't played with it but the reputation is that it's used by a lot of professionals who know what they're doing, some serious home recording setups, and a lot of clueless people who have the money to spend but little to no knowledge of effects, mixing, etc (sterotypically lawyers and doctors). No offense to anyone here who owns ProTools (congratulations, rather!), but if you're just getting started I'd go with something a little less expensive.

After you have your setup you get into the dangerous world of effects and softsynths. Can get extremely expensive, I've heard. There are lots of free VSTs luckily.

Another thing - do you play keyboard? Purchasing a midi controller is something that hasn't been mentioned yet. You'll want one if you have even the slightest talent on keys, or a desire to learn. You can get a full synthsizer workstation, cheap synth, or even a $40 Casio Keyboard with midi support. I'm using that last option, at least until I know where I'll be living long-term.

Desktop vs Laptop - Laptops are portable, but especially if you build your own desktop from parts, your dollar will go a lot further. If you get a laptop, make sure to get a good one. Watch out for hard drive speeds, sometimes they use something like 4600rpm. Low-end desktop hard drives are 5400, with the norm being 7200. I use 5400, and really wish I had spent the extra money. Hard drives are actually the bottleneck in many systems, so go for 7200 or higher... maybe even a SCSI drive if you plan on using lots of big disk-based samples. I will be purchasing a replacement second drive this year and will make sure it's 7200 or higher.

I personally like Athlons over Pentium IV's, again a price/performance thing. Pentium IVs can be faster, but are quite a bit more expensive. I recently upgraded from a 500MHz Duron to an Athlon 2400+, and the chip cost something like $60.

512MB of RAM Minimum. A gigabyte would be preferable. I'm running 512 and really should have gone for the gig.

The tascam will do audio and midi for you. I don't think the Audiophile has midi, so you'll need an external midi box ($40) or alternatively you can use something like a Sound Blaster Live and get midi i/o.

I prefer desktops, but if you need to go portable, the laptop beats the heck out of carting around a tower. You can also run softsynths live, if you're into synths and play in a band.