OT: What do you have against op-amps?!

[Fret Wire]

Bluesgeetar, did your ears hear any op amps in Page's mid to late seventies work? He was using the Dist. + alot at that time. I guess we'll have to include the seventies too for cover work.

Other than a fuzz, which is unmistakeable, when you hear guitar tones from the past and present, do you go, hmm..op amp...hmm transistor?

I judge them as good tone, bad tone, lively, presence, sterile, etc.

Modulation devices you can build both ways. How do you hear the difference in phasers and flangers that have op amps? They've been around since the early seventies.

Before you answer, factor in recording techniques, post eq, etc. Are you sure you can hear op amps? Or just certain pedals (which happen to have op amps) that have a trademark sound?

What I hear is either good tone or not so good tone.

[mikeb]

I hate hate hate the sound of opamps.  

You'd better throw away your TV, mixer, CD-player, amp, and so on then, because they've got a hell of a lot of op-amps in them.

I guess what you mean is the sound of distorted sounds being produced by op-amps then? A bunch of people seem to like the sound of the Hotcake, for example (me included), and that's *all* opamp distortion. In any case, opamps and transistors are just different tools for doing the same job.

Mike

[The Tone God]

Since the beginning, your article shows how to split and apply a single supply, effectively making a bipolar supply. AFIK All opamps need a bipolar supply, i.e. +V  -V and ½+V as a reference, unless they derive Vref internally.

Ture the article is centered around converting supplies but in the bigger picture it is about how to use opamps in different situations. Since there is no ground reference in an opamp what type of power supply you use is irrelivant. I look at Vref, or whatever one calls it, as being bias similar to what is needed for tansistors. Would you call a transistor a device that "need a bipolar supply" ? It just happens that in the case of opamps the bias is always 1/2 V+.

Granted some opamps need single or bipolar supplies but in this DIY world that almost never comes up. My problem is with the statement "all opamps need a bipolar supply". Its one of the things I hear often from people who are scared of opamps. I wouldn't call it a myth but a misunderstanding.

Another misunderstood thing I hear is that opamps require more parts. I find that in most cases opamps take the same amount and often less parts then transistors. If there is case when more parts are needed compared to a transistor it is likely because the opamp was not the right part for the job.

Cool site, I like the switch de-bouncing article.

Wow someone read that ?!? :lol: Thanks for compliment.  

Andrew

[Bluesgeetar]

yeah, mikeb nailed it there.  I hate hate hate the sound of distortion/overdrive/fuzz associated with opamps!  Clean side of them can be nice and interesting.  

And Page?  Well his clean sounds were nice after about 75 but his distortion/overdrive started sounding crappy to me around that time.

My TV/CD player etc?  Man I would kill if I could have the sweet organic sound quality out of my home electronics that I get out of my tube amp!  

I have two Vox valvetones that have them little devils in them.  The clean stuff out of them are nice at times but distortion?  yuk?

My intersound IVP has a ton of them little devils. It sounds nice for clean but distortion?  nah!  

Opamps sound flat and sterile to me.  Could be worse though,  could be digital.

I like all distortion and fuzz to be handled by tubes, transistors, fets.  Clean, either one will do, SS or tube.

[Torchy]

Opamps are free at TI   :oops:

[RDV]

And Page?  Well his clean sounds were nice after about 75 but his distortion/overdrive started sounding crappy to me around that time.

Well, I don't suppose his heroin addiction at that time could've had anything to do with it!
Kids, don't take heroin, it'll make you use opamp based distortions!

HAH!RDV

[Fret Wire]

Isn't it been around 15 years since Clapton has had an op amp right inside his Strat? Most people didn't know what an op amp was until they came here. Now, knowing probably biases the opinion. I think people hear what is good and bad tone to them, nothing more. From a playing perspective, it's just like commuting: getting from point A to point B is what matters, not how you got there.

[Fret Wire]

Kids, don't take heroin, it'll make you use opamp based distortions!
HAH!RDV

You're 30 years to late. Now heroin makes you want to play Seattle based grunge and alt. rock!  :shock:

[Bluesgeetar]

God I hate Grunge!  

Well I am from Alabama, so take as many shots at Seattle as you want!  :lol:

I will confirm though that the local guitar talent up here in the NW is pretty sad.  Since I moved here I have yet to meet an inspiring guitar player.  

There is a local guy that does some awsome Hendrix impressions though.

[Gilles C]

Isn't it been around 15 years since Clapton has had an op amp right inside his Strat? Most people didn't know what an op amp was until they came here. Now, knowing probably biases the opinion. I think people hear what is good and bad tone to them, nothing more. From a playing perspective, it's just like commuting: getting from point A to point B is what matters, not how you got there.

An Op-amp in his guitar?

Did he have something else installed in his guitar beside the transistor based Mid Boost?

Btw, that's a real question. I'm not putting you down. Just that I only know about that transistor preamp, but never heard of an op-amp preamp in his guitar.

Gilles

[Fret Wire]

Gilles, maybe you're right. I was under the impression the actual Fender unit has a OA. I've seen schems showing both. Unless I'm confusing it with a retro model sold by other than Fender.

[cd]

Some EC midboost circuits had an opamp, others had transistors.  The transistors actually form an opamp, so either way it hardly matters.

15 years seems off to me.  Last time I saw Clapton (around '96 or '97) he was still using the EC Strat w/midboost.  I saw him turn it up and down more than a few times.

[Gilles C]

Some EC midboost circuits had an opamp, others had transistors.  The transistors actually form an opamp, so either way it hardly matters.

15 years seems off to me.  Last time I saw Clapton (around '96 or '97) he was still using the EC Strat w/midboost.  I saw him turn it up and down more than a few times.

Humm, then, it would really be interesting to compare both circuits...

Or, on second though, and staying on the subject of DIY effects, I would like to see a new design of a FET mid boost for example, "à la Runoffgroove", based on Clapton booster. And another one with an Op-amp.<

Added: Jay Doyle's Timbre Box with only a Mid Frequency would be another option. What's the Clapton Mid frequency?

[Fret Wire]

15 years seems off to me.  Last time I saw Clapton (around '96 or '97) he was still using the EC Strat w/midboost.  I saw him turn it up and down more than a few times.

It seems to me that he started using it in the late eighties. It first came out with the Lace Sensors. Not positive though. Eric doesn't return my calls like he used to.

[cd]

15 years seems off to me.  Last time I saw Clapton (around '96 or '97) he was still using the EC Strat w/midboost.  I saw him turn it up and down more than a few times.

It seems to me that he started using it in the late eighties. It first came out with the Lace Sensors. Not positive though. Eric doesn't return my calls like he used to.

OK, I see what you mean now - I thought you meant "Clapton hasn't used an opamp in his Strat for 15 years", not "Clapton has been using an opamp in his Strat for 15 years".  Since you meant the latter, late '80s for the Lace Sensors sounds about right, so 15 years is close.  

As for basing the booster on FETs, just stick a 40Hz high pass and 3kHz low pass filter onto your favorite booster circuit and you're in the ballpark.  There's nothing overly special/complicated about it.

[Fret Wire]

I meant he was using an op amp for the last 15 years. Poor wording on my end. Didn't he start using it almost right after he retired "Blacky"?

[george]

hmm let me see now ... I'm looking at my pedal board:

Tonepad Heladito - got an opamp handling the audio signal.
Shaka Tube - got a TL072 driving the valve.
AD-3208 - got an opamp handling the audio signal

They all sound pretty good to me, mind you the opamps don't do any distortion, probably even in the Shaka Tube.

Having said that, doesn't the Crowther Hotcake's (which I haven't heard but supposedly the Holy Grail of overdrive) distortion derived solely from TL071 distortion (ie with no clipping diodes)?

I guess what it comes down to is that there's probably good and bad ways of designing op-amp circuits .... ?

[petemoore]

Well tonight I used 3SC picups
 a 4401 and 2n7000 [ff]
 a New Clipper with a 4558 [I think[ in it mods of course
 MPSA's in a VOX Wah
 SS PHAZE Shifet...buncha OA' in that one...somebody built one from Discretes...whew.
 J201's ina Supreaux...what can I add?
 Oh 12ax7;s [3] and EL34's [2] MkII V/R
 and Greenback Celestions...that shoud do it.
 If I started gettin' any pickier about which component is 'better'...I'm just glad I don't really have to think about it. Except I do  alot.
 My tube amp could and did suck without a transistor or two...sounded pretty ok for clean stuff. I suppose I could do something with more tubes, ...but I chose transistors thank you.
 My transistors sound bad through other transistors [sometimes]
 Without opamps I would'nt be SS phazing and that would be alot less fun.