Who's That Lady synth

[jmusser]

The Isley Brother's "Who's that Lady" was playing, and I had never really played particular attention to the synth part on that song before. Some of the phrasing of the notes and vibrato techniques, seem like it could have been done on a guitar and not just using a Moog. Since I've never been around a Moog and seen it played, I don't know if it possible to make that kind of tone or not. If this actually was a guitar effect, it would be great to know what type is capable of this heavy synth sound, and of course ultimately to build that effect.

[Ben N]

Jeff, that IS a guitar--a Strat, AAMOF, played by Ernie Isley, through a compressor (OS?) a fuzz of some sort (BMP?), with, I guess, some flanging, IIRC from a GP interview back in the day.  Maybe someone else can fill in a little more about it (Mark H.?)
Ben

[csj]

I recall David and MarkB mentioning it was a Roland Jet Phaser. MarkB has one and he said he can get that sound out of it. Great sound.
Puretube said Bootsy Collins told him it was a BMP through a Small Stone. (but there's an anachronism...um, a dating issue, with that setup).

[puretube]

Puretube said Bootsy Collins told him it was a BMP through a Small Stone. (but there's an anachronism...um, a dating issue, with that setup).

yes, that anachronism astounded Mike Matthews too, whenI told him this.
So my guess: Bootsy was talking bout the gear Ernie used on stage in the later 70`s, when he got to know him.

But: you can nail that "Lady" sound with a BMPdeLuxe & SmallStone,
where the "deLuxe"-part does the compression.

[Johnny Guitar]

I recall David and MarkB mentioning it was a Roland Jet Phaser. MarkB has one and he said he can get that sound out of it. Great sound.
Puretube said Bootsy Collins told him it was a BMP through a Small Stone. (but there's an anachronism...um, a dating issue, with that setup).

I would have guessed a Roland Jet Phaser too. I got my Jet Phaser AP.7 in early 1976 (which was right around the time that song came out). I know a lot of people like the Jet Phaser (as do I) but I NEVER see it listed in any of the favorite effects lists, and it is never cloned on any of the sites that do the old effects we all love -- I wonder why?

I'd love to have a few more foot switches on mine: one for fuzz, one or two for filter pole switching.

J

[marc]

3 + 3 is one of my favourite albums of that era. I have that GP with Ernie Isley somewhere, but as I recall, he did mention (or the interviewer mentioned) that Roger Mayer did a lot of mods to his pedals.

[BobPavao]

Hey Guys,

In the 80's, I worked with the producer of that track - he is/was a synth guru. Known most for his work with Stevie Wonder.  His name is Robert Margouleff.

Here is a link where he mentions the use of an Octavia on that track. >> http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_isley_brothers_lady/

Remember they layered tracks, so while a single track with Octavia won't sound like that, layering can give a chorus/phase sound. Or course they could have used a phaser or Uni-Vibe or chorus.. who knows. Probably some kinda fuzz pedal too.

Hope this helps.

~Bob Pavao~

[puretube]

wasn`t it `73?...

[jmusser]

Of course, Bob could be totally pulling my chain since we're in Cyberspace and all that, but to me, what he says makes a lot of sense. I wasn't buying the Big Muff /Phaser theory. If you were to take a break like Hendrix did on "Fire", and run it through a mixing board, I could see how you could tame down the Octavia's tone so that it would be more synth like. BTW Bob, thanks for the reference to that great article. I also believe Bob was trying to say that when he worked with Robert in the 80s, Robert told him the secret of the "Who's That Lady" guitar tone. Like I said, I finally really listened to it that night, and thought, "Wow, that may actually be a guitar playing there"!

[BobPavao]

Hey Guys,

Robert didn't tell me anything about that recording, I read it on the link I posted above. He produced a project of mine in the '80s.

I think "Who's that Lady" or "That Lady" was recorded in '73.

~Bob Pavao~

[Ben N]

Well, of course the recording wasn't done the way you would do something like that live, but, after all, they did/do perform it live.  There has to be something producing that smooth, squashed infinite sustain, and you can't get that from any Octavia I've ever played or heard.  OTOH, if you told me he stuck an Octavia into the mix after, say a BMP, I might believe that--and the article really isn't very detailed or specific about what was used.  Those very brief moments of chaos in the solo where it sounds like the whole thing is about to break into uncontrolled feedback DO sound rather Octavia-like (not that you can't get there with a BMP).  Just for giggles I tried it with a Pro-Tone Strat, Ed the Compressor, BMP and Proctavia, and it didn't sound half bad.  A half-%^&*ed wah before the BMP sounds pretty good, too, in place of the Octavia.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if the phasing sound is one of those engineers leaning on a tape flange, but, again, there had to be a way for Ernie to do it live, and he did.  

So, of course, the real issue for most of us is not how they did it in the studio, but how it can be done, using the tools available, IMHO.

[Jim Jones]

Hey Bob,

Good to see you over here!  How's the nameplate/logo thing going these days?

Jim

[MarkB]

After reading that it was a Jet Phaser - then fixing my dead one...
I can confirm, beyond any doubt... it's a Roland Jet Phaser.   Likely a strat into it.

I LOVE this pedal.. now one of my favorites.

Can't use it on everything.. but when you need it - it's perfect.
"-)

[jmusser]

Ok, if this is indeed the beast that Ernie used, or at least makes the "That Lady" sound, where might an Isley want to be find a schematic for this thing? This must not be like any other phaser I've ever heard, and has some other type circuitry in there. Most phasers I've ever heard never really do anything to the clean tone except make it doing watery and wavy thing. This one seems to give either some sort of buzz fuzz or synth tone along with the actual phasing. I mean, I'm already growing the afro, and I have the polyester jumpsuit, all I'd have to do is have the jet phaser and well..........I guess being black would also help......well then there's that talent thing that I may want to pick up.....and the platform shoes.........and......

[MarkB]

send me a PM with your email address.  I have it.
Mr Huge was kind enough to dig it up for me to help me resurrect mine.
"-)

[puretube]

...and the right distortion in front...

btw: somebody heard the "Live It Up" version on the new re-issued Live It Up CD from the Legacy series?

I instantly feel urged to play air-guitar, when that solo guitar comes in...

[Mark Hammer]

The thing about a fuzz/phaser combination is that you have one device generating lots of harmonic content, and a second selectively removing parts of that harmonic content as it sweeps around.

Could an octavia do that?  Sure.  I submit the Jawari as an example.  Not an octaver per se but it produces an interestingly filtered sound where the harmonic content varies over time.  I also find I get interesting modulation of harmonic content on my Foxx clone with the octave on.

My own gut instinct would have been to nod my head in response to the suggestion of 2-in-1 fuzz-phase like the Jetphaser, or two boxes like a BMP and SS, but I think a guy like Roger Mayer could easily tweak an Octavia so that it sits around the threshold of generating more and less obvious octaves and so provides constantly varying harmonic content.

Another way is to simply record the track in duplicate with the Octavia set differently and modulate the harmonic content by panning between the two versions during mixing.

Personally, I have no money down on HOW it was done, merely that tehre are a bunch of ways it COULD be done.

[MarkB]

The Fuzz section in the Jet Phaser is real nasty... lots of harmonic content.  And the phaser is very resonant.

I can come close to that sound with a DIY  FF into a Maestro Phase shifter.. but the Jet Phaser nails it perfectly.  

It's a nasty, nasty box (in a good way, obviously)
"-)

[SeanCostello]

I'm pretty sure that I read it was a Big Muff feeding the old Oberheim-designed Maestro Phaser. Both devices were around in 1973. A Big Muff into most phase shifters can approximate that sound, particularly if you are using the neck pickup with the tone rolled off.

Sean Costello

[jmusser]

Mark, I sent you a PM. As Bugs Bunny would say, "Tanks Large Mack"!