SD-1 v.s. TS-808

[brrt]

Hi guys!

Apart from component values and appearance, what are the main differences between a Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive and a Ibanez TS-808 (or TS-9) Tubescreamer? Because there is a BIG difference in pricing...

greets,
Brrt

[cd]

BOSS sells way more to a different market.  Ibanez is cashing in on the vintage/re-issue craze so they're priced higher.  That's all.

If you're worried about price, buy the TS-7, those series are Ibanez's answer to BOSS.  You don't even have to do any chip changes, it comes stock with a 4558

[MartyMart]

Buy an SD-1, then go look at "FuzzCentral's"  mod and do it !
you will have a killer sounding pedal, remove D6 or stick in an LED for some nice xtra crunch !!
Marty. :wink:

[Ben N]

IMHO: I find the SD-1 has a little bit softer distortion, probably because of the asymmetric diode arrangement, and so it works a little bit better as a stand-alone distortion.  The TS-9 (not exactly 808) works a little bit better as a lead boost pushing a tube amp; without the tube thing happening, I find it sounds a little bit cold.  But the differences are fairly subtle.  Same mid-hump.

Do a search--there was a fairly extensive thread not too long ago in which a lot of people expressed their preferences between them.

[timrand]

Do this Remove the capacitor over the last stage of the op-amp I think it is c6 which is a 10nF just cut it out.
Add a 39pf across the clipping diodes and you have a great pedal !!

[primalphunk]

IMHO: I find the SD-1 has a little bit softer distortion, probably because of the asymmetric diode arrangement, and so it works a little bit better as a stand-alone distortion.  The TS-9 (not exactly 808) works a little bit better as a lead boost pushing a tube amp; without the tube thing happening, I find it sounds a little bit cold.  But the differences are fairly subtle.  Same mid-hump.

Do a search--there was a fairly extensive thread not too long ago in which a lot of people expressed their preferences between them.

Were you talking about the thread that phoras started a few months ago?  If anyone reading this thread happens to know could you tell me if the SD-1 passes more of the clean signal thru on the lower end of things like the tubescreamer does?  I remember reading about this on GEO as far as the tubescreamer is concerned but I've never read much about the boss pedal.  Also...has anyone here tried to use a warp control with a ts?  If so did you feel it was worth the cost in extra parts?  Is the tubescreamer already too subtle of a device to really benefit much from this?

[cd]

Were you talking about the thread that phoras started a few months ago?  If anyone reading this thread happens to know could you tell me if the SD-1 passes more of the clean signal thru on the lower end of things like the tubescreamer does?  I remember reading about this on GEO as far as the tubescreamer is concerned but I've never read much about the boss pedal.  Also...has anyone here tried to use a warp control with a ts?  If so did you feel it was worth the cost in extra parts?  Is the tubescreamer already too subtle of a device to really benefit much from this?

Unless your pedal is broken, NONE of the clean signal is passed through.  The SD-1 rolls off bass in the same frequency range as a TS.  The only difference is it uses asymetrical clipping (three diodes) so the bass region is clipped less which makes it sound like it has more bass.

I wouldn't bother with a warp control if you want the characteristic TS sound.

[GreenEye]

indyguitarist.com and analogman.com have like an encyclopedic amount of info on those two pedals.  Don't forget the Blue Magic, which many people think slay them both to shreds.

[primalphunk]

Were you talking about the thread that phoras started a few months ago?  If anyone reading this thread happens to know could you tell me if the SD-1 passes more of the clean signal thru on the lower end of things like the tubescreamer does?  I remember reading about this on GEO as far as the tubescreamer is concerned but I've never read much about the boss pedal.  Also...has anyone here tried to use a warp control with a ts?  If so did you feel it was worth the cost in extra parts?  Is the tubescreamer already too subtle of a device to really benefit much from this?

Unless your pedal is broken, NONE of the clean signal is passed through.  The SD-1 rolls off bass in the same frequency range as a TS.  The only difference is it uses asymetrical clipping (three diodes) so the bass region is clipped less which makes it sound like it has more bass.

I wouldn't bother with a warp control if you want the characteristic TS sound.

Okay...That's right...Here's what RG said about the clipping of a tubescreamer...
"Only notes and harmonics above this point get the full gain of the distortion stage, and everything below it gets pregressively less gain - and distortion. This fact probably accounts for the lack of "muddiness" of the distortion in the TS series as bass notes are clipped least."  

So the lower end isn't passed totally without any clipping...just with less clipping.  Thanks for the correction.  Thanks also for the note about warp controls used with tubescreamers.

[nooneknows]

The SD-1 rolls off bass in the same frequency range as a TS.  The only difference is it uses asymetrical clipping (three diodes) so the bass region is clipped less which makes it sound like it has more bass.

IMHO the stock SD1 has a rolloff frequencies higher than the TS9. if I remember correctly it has a .018uF cap to the input of the first opamp that actually cut off a lot of bass frequencies.
If you don't want to waste a lot of money I think you could buy an Ibanez  Tonelock TS7, it's' cheap and there is enough room inside to tweak everything tweakable. And the stock Fat mode is not that bad at all.

[cd]

The SD-1 rolls off bass in the same frequency range as a TS.  The only difference is it uses asymetrical clipping (three diodes) so the bass region is clipped less which makes it sound like it has more bass.

IMHO the stock SD1 has a rolloff frequencies higher than the TS9. if I remember correctly it has a .018uF cap to the input of the first opamp that actually cut off a lot of bass frequencies.
If you don't want to waste a lot of money I think you could buy an Ibanez  Tonelock TS7, it's' cheap and there is enough room inside to tweak everything tweakable. And the stock Fat mode is not that bad at all.

We're talking about two different caps here.  The first cap that the signal hits in a TS is .022u, before the transistor stage.  On a SD-1 it's .047u (larger) so it's actually cutting at a lower frequency (7Hz).  The input to the clipping stage on a TS is 1u, on a SD-1 it's .018u, which means on an SD-1 the rolloff frequency is 88Hz - just a tad higher than the lowest note on the guitar (82Hz).   IMHO this is evened out by the asymetrical clipping since anything lower than 88Hz is going to be minimal (if you guitar can produce a 20Hz harmonic... I WANT IT!)

[Mark Hammer]

I have a "warp" control on my TS-808 clone.  Works nice, and works like this....

Make yourself the Tonepad board for the TS-9/SD-1 clone (or buy yourself an SD-1).  Where the extra diode would go on the Tonepad layout, OR where the extra diode would be located on the SD-1, omit the diode that is  tied to the op-amp output (D2 in the Tonepad layout) and install a pair of wires to a 5k to 10k pot wired up as a variable resistor in series with the other diode of the two-in-a-row pair.   That's it.

When the pot is at minimum value, the unit behaves just like a TS-9/808 etc, with a pair of diodes providing symmetrical clipping and more squish.  As you increase the pot value, you start to get less clipping on one half cycle (the other remains unchanged), more dynamics available (i.e., when you pick harder, its louder), and more volume.  Because one of the diodes behaves the same way all the time, you will always have *some* clipping (assuming the input signal is strong enough and  the gain turned up), but the combination of variable asymmetry and gain variations can serve up a variety of flavours.

Works like a charm.  Don't know why this has never been a commercially available feature.

[nooneknows]

The input to the clipping stage on a TS is 1u, on a SD-1 it's .018u, which means on an SD-1 the rolloff frequency is 88Hz - just a tad higher than the lowest note on the guitar (82Hz).

mmmmh, are you sure? I've got a 884 Hz rolloff freq. maybe I made something wrong? what is the input impedance of the op amp section?

[cd]

The input to the clipping stage on a TS is 1u, on a SD-1 it's .018u, which means on an SD-1 the rolloff frequency is 88Hz - just a tad higher than the lowest note on the guitar (82Hz).

mmmmh, are you sure? I've got a 884 Hz rolloff freq. maybe I made something wrong? what is the input impedance of the op amp section?

F = 1/6.28*R*C
F = 1/6.28*.1M*.018
F = 88Hz

[primalphunk]

I have a "warp" control on my TS-808 clone.  Works nice, and works like this....

Make yourself the Tonepad board for the TS-9/SD-1 clone (or buy yourself an SD-1).  Where the extra diode would go on the Tonepad layout, OR where the extra diode would be located on the SD-1, omit the diode that is  tied to the op-amp output (D2 in the Tonepad layout) and install a pair of wires to a 5k to 10k pot wired up as a variable resistor in series with the other diode of the two-in-a-row pair.   That's it.

When the pot is at minimum value, the unit behaves just like a TS-9/808 etc, with a pair of diodes providing symmetrical clipping and more squish.  As you increase the pot value, you start to get less clipping on one half cycle (the other remains unchanged), more dynamics available (i.e., when you pick harder, its louder), and more volume.  Because one of the diodes behaves the same way all the time, you will always have *some* clipping (assuming the input signal is strong enough and  the gain turned up), but the combination of variable asymmetry and gain variations can serve up a variety of flavours.

Works like a charm.  Don't know why this has never been a commercially available feature.

Thanks Mark...I'm gonna give that a try.  I'm more familiar with the General Guitar Gadgets style of laying out all the parts complete with JD's easy to understand wiring for the switches and stuff.  I'm kinda stupid but hey...I won't let that stop me...heheheh...I'm checking out the tonepad pdf.

peace,
James

[nooneknows]

Hi,

F = 1/6.28*R*C
F = 1/6.28*.1M*.018
F = 88Hz

All right, but what about output impedance of the previous stage? I think we have a pi filter, not a simple RC, or not? (i don't want to be a troll, I just want to understand)
bye

[crazybuilder]

IMO you can't beat the beautiful tone that flows out a TS-808. Thats heaven for me!

-J

[cd]

All right, but what about output impedance of the previous stage? I think we have a pi filter, not a simple RC, or not? (i don't want to be a troll, I just want to understand)
bye

Someone with a better theory background can correct me, but I don't the output Z of the emitter follower matters.  The 100k is tied to the bias supply and the 10k to ground.  Then again I have never seen a RCR pi filter, only CLC or CRC, and those only in power supplies or MHz range RF circuits.