newbie questions

[badperson]

Hi,

I just put my first paia kit together last week and it didn't work. I went thru the instructions again, and noticed some supplemental inserts to the manual, and rewired according to what they said. Still didn't work.

I think I know what the problem(or at least one of the problems) is; bad solder joints. My solder joints don't look like the joints on some commercially bought pedals I have; mine look like little round balls on the pcb. (this is the first time I have ever soldered)

So my question is, can I simply re-heat the solder joints making sure the copper on the pcb is heated as well? Is it possible to overheat the components (I know diodes are sensitive to heat) or the pcb itself?

Also, can I test the unit without installing it in the stompbox case? If it's just battery powered I won't shock myself too badly, will I?

I've seen a lot of great material out there which i'm going thru, but I wasn't able to find answeres to these specific questions. I've lurked here a few days and there's some great stuff here.


Anyway, thanks.

bp

[smoguzbenjamin]

If you could show a picture of your solder joints it would be easier to tell if they're cold or not. Another thing you can do is build an audio probe (search geofex.com for this) and trace where the signal stops, then reheat that joint or replace the component if you suspect it to be faulty.

[the_badcliff]

yes, reheating the solder joints should make a difference, especially if they're like you describe.  Transistors, ICs, and Diodes are generally more sensitive to heat than your other components.  Just use good judgement, and don't hold the iron in one spot too long, the solder should flow nicely in a second or two.

Sometimes if you overheat the pcb the copper traces will be lifted off, but it really takes alot.  It happens, but once again, as long as you don't hold the soldering iron in one place too long you'll be ok.

Definitely test it before you put it in a box.  It should be a whole lot easier to debug.  You won't get shocked, and if you did, a 9V battery won't hurt ya.

[smoguzbenjamin]

I lick my 9v's frequently to quickly see if they have enough juice. :mrgreen:

[badperson]

hi,

thanks for the replies. I don't have a digital camera so I can't post pics, sorry.

I'll spend some time with it tomorrow. Hopefully fixing the solder joints will work.

I'll keep you posted.

thanks!

bp

[Samuel]

if your solder looks like dull spheres you've got a problem. Should look like shiny hersheys kisses. make sure you get the iron in contact with both the pad and the component leg, and watch carefully. You'll be able to see the solder suddenly bond to the pad when it is heated properly.  The concept when soldering is to momentarily get the component and the pad both hot enough to melt the solder on their own - the solder should remain liquid briefly while only in contact with the pad and component - it should need to be touching the iron to be melted. The whole process should take no more than 3 seconds or so. If you're nervous about the transistors (I am when I build things) use sockets.

[Peter Snowberg]

One thing I would recommend would be to get a piece of perf board and some cheap resistors and to do a bunch of practice soldering.

Soldering is something that you just have to develop a feel for and that takes some practice.

The concept when soldering is to momentarily get the component and the pad both hot enough to melt the solder on their own

This is perhaps the most important part to keep in mind.

Welcome to the forum!

[badperson]

Thanks, I'll take that advice. As soon as I get this going, I think I'll get a bunch of stuff from Small bear, some perf board included.

I also don't have any testing equipment, so I think I should pick up a vom at some point.

[badperson]

I tried re-heating all the joints, and it still didn't work. I'm thinking I may need to bag this project and do something simpler. Maybe I'll try the beginner project on this forum.

This project (Gator(tm) Noise Gate/Envelope Controller) may have been too complicated for a first try; it has 3 ic's, it has a diode on on of the pots, and I'm thinking there are too many places where I could have taken a wrong turn.

I'm close to 100% certain that all the resistors and caps are in the right place, and at the time I thought I was soldering correctly. I pressed the lead against the pcb with the iron for about two seconds and then applied solder.

Is there  a trick to soldering ic sockets? I may not have done that correctly. It's also possible that the ic's aren't in correctly, I'll double check that, although I'm close to %100 that isn't the problem.

I also may have installed the two diodes on the pcb incorrectly; on the component side of the pcb, there is a filled in white band, I lined that up with the black band of the diode.

When I ty to play thru it, I get absolutely nothing, not in bypass mode, nothing.

Anyway, I don't have any testing equipment, I'll get that next and play around with it. I'm beginning to think, though, this may have been a $60 learning experience.

Any other good beginner projects other than the one listed here? I don't really have a need for that particular box (it's just a level boost, right?) but it doesn't look too expensive.

How many times can you re-heat the solder joints before you ruin the board? I've gotta believe that today all the joints were sufficiently heated.

Anyway, it's a drag, but what can you do. I guess I'll put in an order for the beginner project at small bear.

Thanks!

bp

[petemoore]

I tried re-heating all the joints, and it still didn't work. I'm thinking I may need to bag this project and do something simpler. Maybe I'll try the beginner project on this forum.
 >>>I've fried IC's soldering them in

This project (Gator(tm) Noise Gate/Envelope Controller) may have been too complicated for a first try; it has 3 ic's, it has a diode on on of the pots, and I'm thinking there are too many places where I could have taken a wrong turn.
 >>>maybe try some other things to it, then set it aside...suggestion...building initial 'chops' [getting some of the initial initiations to electronics down] with ElecTRICK ciruits.

I'm close to 100% certain that all the resistors and caps are in the right place, and at the time I thought I was soldering correctly. I pressed the lead against the pcb with the iron for about two seconds and then applied solder.
 >>>there's different ways, I like to start with a clean tip,  [mount the board or something [I use a brick hole to hold the iron still, this adds another free hand to the operation, I find it's a very good way, as I can approach and retreat accurately the tip to the metals I want heated]k///now that you have a free hand...
 With one wrist steadied by something and the board in that hand, [you may have to move/adjust something to get a good easy to coordinate approach] the other hand can dab the solder. I find the solder really helps the heat transfer from the iron to the board, having a small fresh dab [fresh seems to 'flow' better] between the tip and the metals, gets them hot enough to melt the solder more quickly and predictably...sometimes I hold the end of the solder right on the pad/lead and melt just a small amount...takes a second for the metals to heat...then I 'cool' [yes the solders thermal mass has a cooling effect when it melts on something] the joint by melting solder to it. getting the metal hot enough first and 'brushing the solder to it in small dabs lets the outer sections of what's being soldered to get hot enough to 'grab' the solder...and is an indicator [with practice] of more exactly when the metal reaches heat level that bonds.
 Read the debugging page...cap orientation...OA orientation...etc...fun stuff for debug info.
 DMM is a must...email me for 'thumbuzz' debug method, or use an audio probe.
 

Is there  a trick to soldering ic sockets? I may not have done that correctly. It's also possible that the ic's aren't in correctly, I'll double check that, although I'm close to %100 that isn't the problem.

I also may have installed the two diodes on the pcb incorrectly; on the component side of the pcb, there is a filled in white band, I lined that up with the black band of the diode.

When I ty to play thru it, I get absolutely nothing, not in bypass mode, nothing.

Anyway, I don't have any testing equipment, I'll get that next and play around with it. I'm beginning to think, though, this may have been a $60 learning experience.

Any other good beginner projects other than the one listed here? I don't really have a need for that particular box (it's just a level boost, right?) but it doesn't look too expensive.

How many times can you re-heat the solder joints before you ruin the board? I've gotta believe that today all the joints were sufficiently heated.

Anyway, it's a drag, but what can you do. I guess I'll put in an order for the beginner project at small bear.

Thanks!

bp

[cd]

Have you tried contacting PAiA?  In my experience, they're extremely helpful when it comes to problems & troubleshooting.

[Peter Snowberg]

I would recommend going out and getting a DMM..... even a cheapo $10 one will work for most uses, but for $30 you can get decent meters with lots more functions.

Set your project aside if you need to, but don't toss it. You can get it working.

Check out the FAQ forum section under "Audio Probe" and build one of those. Between the probe and a meter, you can fix most anything audio.

[badperson]

yeah, I definitely won't toss it, but rather come back to it when I have a couple of simpler circuits under my belt.

bp

[ragtime8922]

Also, what kind of solder iron do you have? What type of tip are you using? If variable, what temp are you using?
     
If you feel that this is something you are going to do long term I would strongly suggest a good solder station. I promise you that you will thank yourself for spending the money on this.

[badperson]

Hi,

i'm using a super-cheap radio shack 30watt iron. A weller soldering station and a good multi-meter will be the first things I get next week.

thanks for the reply.

bp

[Jason Stout]

i'm using a super-cheap radio shack 30watt iron. A weller soldering station and a good multi-meter will be the first things I get next week.

You'll be happy!

[badperson]

Ok,

so I bought myself a good digital multi-meter. I've actually ordered parts for the beginner project from the other forum, so this paia project is on hold for awhile, but I was wondering if you guys could give me some ideas of things to check for with my new multimeter.

I read on the debugging page that when there is no sound at all, it is generally a wiring problem, so I thought that may be a good place to check.

thanks.

bp