making/selling your own designs

[Paul Marossy]

Trust me, Zvex is not selling a lot of $300 effects boxes to working musicians - he is selling them to lots and lots of basement musicians with another source of income that allows them to maintain their toy habit.

Yes, that is true. And, anyone can buy a Z. Vex pedal. But, a lot of very well known guitarists buy his stuff, too. Point being, his target group is not the average starving musician, but I know it is not just CEO/closet musician types who buy his stuff, either.

Don't forget lessons

Funny thing. I have a friend who was pro for about 15 years or so. He quit the biz because he was tired of "the racket". He is a phenomonal player, too. Anyway, he makes way more money now that he only teaches at a music store instead of trying to do the pro thing. I don't know, maybe it's the town I live in? The few guys that play casinos here in Las Vegas are extremely good. And my friend is, too. Actually, I have known several musicians in this same category as well.  That's why I never tried to pursue music on a professional level. I'm just not that good, and I have seen a lot of incredible players get chewed up and spit out. I am content to be a church musician and fiddle around in my "home studio".

Anyhow, I know that at least one music store here makes probably 50% of their income from lessons...

[badperson]

If an income is your intention, there are many here that could tell you that it takes an enormous investment of time, money, and intestinal fortitude to squeeze a "real" income out of this.

I don't have designs on selling stompboxes, especially since I'm waiting on the parts from Small Bear to make the beginner project outlined on the other forum. Another post caught my attention that alluded to the subject, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

Although once I'm done with that beginner project, I'm sure I could get $2000 or $3000 for it easy.    

[Paul Marossy]

Although once I'm done with that beginner project, I'm sure I could get $2000 or $3000 for it easy.

With ebay, all things are possible!  :shock:  :lol:  

[mlabbee]

Yes, that is true. And, anyone can buy a Z. Vex pedal. But, a lot of very well known guitarists buy his stuff, too. Point being, his target group is not the average starving musician, but I know it is not just CEO/closet musician types who buy his stuff, either.

I didn't mean to suggest that he sells nothing to working musicians - I'm just saying he could never make a living selling just to working musicians.  there's just not enough volume, even when you sell at his prices (which I think are fair prices given the unique nature of his product).[/quote]

[Paul Marossy]

mlabbee-

No worries man. I got your drift.  :wink:
I also think the prices are reasonable, all things considered.

[mlabbee]

Indeed . . . I just wish I could afford them  

[Mark Hammer]

I don't have designs on selling stompboxes, especially since I'm waiting on the parts from Small Bear to make the beginner project outlined on the other forum. Another post caught my attention that alluded to the subject, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

Duly noted.  My own response wasn't to smack you down, and I think you took it in the spirit with which it was offered.

There are some things that people attempt to do on their own, and the sheer complexity and cost of it makes them think "Jeez I'm glad I don't have to go through THAT again".  Then there are thing that people attempt to do on their own, and the outlay and complexity of such a type that they think "Hey, maybe *I* could do that!?"  For example, how many folks bake a batch of cookies that make their friends proclaim "These are A-MAZING!!  You could sell these things if you wanted to.", and the thoughts start keeping them up at night.  Fuzzboxes are sorta like that.  People put one together, think "Jeez, that's every bit as good as what I bought last year", their friends say it's even better than what THEY had bought last week, and they start wondering if they could make money at it.  They would not likely think the same thing if they had just spent 200 man-hours working on a tube amp.  I'm sure they'd be glad they made it, but wouldn't start thinking about turning it into an income source.

Near as I can gather, just about all the folks who have started peddling their stuff through musictoyz or wherever, whether they come here on a regular or irregular basis, usually had a thriving business doing custom work before they started turning out "custom" products.  The prototypic case is probably the late Dan Armstrong, who had a repair shop and did custom work long before anyone had heard of the Orange Squeezer of the lucite guitar.  More recently, Pete Cornish had a lengthy career doing one-offs for people before he ventured into a product line.

If you get a chance, take a peek at the Art Thompson book "Stompbox".  It has a number of interviews with pivotal people in the history of pedals, and again, just about all of them had thriving businesses doing custom work and one-offs before they ever started selling "products"

[Paul Marossy]

If you get a chance, take a peek at the Art Thompson book "Stompbox". It has a number of interviews with pivotal people in the history of pedals, and again, just about all of them had thriving businesses doing custom work and one-offs before they ever started selling "products"

Now that would be an interesting read!

[mxr2000]

You're better off trying to sell life insurance or something else.
Anytime you try to sell a product, there is someone else trying to do the same thing you are, and they will sell it for less than you. On top of that, most full-time professional musicians (that I have known) live hand to mouth and have no extra money. Heck, even some of the big names (in jazz-rock fusion anyway) don't even make that much money, even with 20 albums out there. It's like trying to sell a Lexus to someone on welfare... (no offense to anyone on welfare).


Finding a niche market is probably your best bet. IMO, Z. Vex has found a niche market, and it seems to be working out well for him. (selling things that make weird noises to famous musicians)

You're better off trying to sell life insurance or something else.
Anytime you try to sell a product, there is someone else trying to do the same thing you are, and they will sell it for less than you. On top of that, most full-time professional musicians (that I have known) live hand to mouth and have no extra money. Heck, even some of the big names (in jazz-rock fusion anyway) don't even make that much money, even with 20 albums out there. It's like trying to sell a Lexus to someone on welfare... (no offense to anyone on welfare). I hate to say this is true

[Brian Marshall]

If you like slow paying dealers... forumites (not on this forum though) calling you a spammer...  people that want something for your cost... and being poor... you'll love selling pedals.

[Duff]

OK, ok, BUT I think the question is...  hold on, an old stupid urban mith springs to my mind:
You buy a matress, you take it home, put it on your bed, you rip off that big bothering label, you read the label that says DO NOT REMOVE, and then 4 cops kick your door down, make you kiss the matress and take you straight to jail. So, will this happen if I happen to sell a TS-9 clone?
Will the cops have "Ibanez" written on their caps?
Will they take the trouble to get hold of one of my pedals, take the screws off, decript the circuit, search for prints, interrogate my buyers, track me down, and find my Duff-cave?
                                 
You´ll find out on the next Duff post.

[puretube]

to assist Brian:
yes, taking an observational visit here:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=29 (H-C FX-forum)
can scare the hell out of anybody`s ambitions...  :shock:

[ragtime8922]

to assist Brian:
yes, taking an observational visit here:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=29 (H-C FX-forum)
can scare the hell out of anybody`s ambitions...  :shock:

Which thread on that link? or do you mean all..lol?

[Phorhas]

Man... there are so many small buisnesses in the stompbox buisness... and basicall evryone is doing the same thing... TS, FF, RM, miniboosters, MOS boosters, Small Clones, trems, dynacomps, etc...

is there even enough room for some new blood? can the stompbox world come up with something new anymore? the market is absolutly sturated... just from a tiny peep at HC's FX database I see that breaking into this market and really secceed is one tuff nuggy!

If more and more small companies like that will continue to sprout like mushrooms after the rain, then every 20 musicians will just have their own, intimate, and privet custom builder... like lawyers... or dentists

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Let a thousand mushrooms bloom! :wink:
There are still a lot more guitar builders than stopboxers.. but we must be catching up fast.

[ragtime8922]

You can do this:

1.)Directly steal a schematic from this or another DIY site (AMZ) and market it as your own.

2.)Then when you make it big, have your ads say "Forget about the garage builders, they'll be back to there regular jobs in a year while we've been around for 10+ years" and while making that statement you'll be thinking to yourslef "I hope the garage/diy guys don't go under. If they don't post on there sites where will I get my 'creativity'"?

Wait a minute, that's already been done by FULLTONE

[Phorhas]

that's a big accusation... I mean, I'm not naeeve, but still, the booster flltone makes that people say he stole from jack... well, the I dea has been around for decades, and even found in some russian book from the '80s... musical minds think alike... and besides, It's not fair designing a cookbook building block pedal, and then pi**ing off when someonr else is doing the same thing... (not to offend any body here)... take for example the AMZ MOSFET booster - people are saying that Z.Vex stole the design for it's SHO... but, it is a basic booster, naturaly many other will share some similaraties (did get that word right? ...)

[Torchy]

The AMZ booster is nothing like the SHO booster ... it shares a BS170 as the semi and thats it.

[Phorhas]

OK... not a brilliant example then

[Torchy]

Actually thats a pretty good example given the original thread direction. There are may boosters on the market. The average guitarist isnt interested in how its made, just how it sounds. Recently I was asked by our other guitarists to build him an RC Booster clone. Instead of doing that I got all the schems for boosters that I could find, picked a few and built all of them. I then amalgamated them into a different design so it was sort-of my own. We then checked each one out and he picked the one he liked best. Guess which one he picked ? The simplest - 10 components on a piece of veroboard 1" by 1/2" in a 1590B. Total cost £11, and stacked up brilliantly to a £179 pedal. Strictly speaking I didnt design it but if I covered it in goop to prevent RE I could probably sell it as an original work.

Oh, and the SHO does have one trick that I didnt see on other boosters. The thing is that we all borrow from each other to make one-offs and no-one minds. When youre selling the resulting pedal then legally its theft.