Built in Gtr Electronics/Solid Body Gtr Project-It's Done!!

[Paul Marossy]

Well, I suppose the two piece pickguard might not be a bad ideea...  

[Paul Marossy]

Designed the PCB for the onboard electronics last weekend. Got the PCB etched last night and populated it this morning (more like the middle of the night since I get up at 4:00AM now). It measures about 3/4"x2" and has Tillman's little FET preamp and Ansil's feedback thinga-ma-jig on it, too. I am going to have it so that I can switch either one on or off.

Which brings up a couple of questions:

1. I can just break the input to either circuit with a switch, but do I need to do anything else? I am concerned that I will get a popping noise when I flip the switch(es). Any second opinions?

2. On the feedback thing, I assume that it only works on the pickup that it is attached to and only if it's active, correct?

Any second opinions?

BTW, I also ordered pickups, a Floyd Rose locking "tremolo", a neck, neck plate and tuners. I have to get started on that pickguard, too. I think I could do a two-piece that wouldn't look too bad (I think). So far I am about $400 into this project. It's going to be worth it, though.

I'll be updating the webpage tonight so y'all can see what I have cooked up do far. I'm having fun with this!

[petemoore]

This probably doesn't apply to your setup Paul, but since I've typed it...
 A set of flat bottom drill bits [make a flat bottomed hole, except for the 1/16''~ bit cutting guide detent in the center of the bottom of the hole] in a super nice case at Home Depot is 20$.
 I use a large bit, 1/14'' or better, and make depth holes [so I don't go All the way through...god forbid], then finish the control componenT cavity by drilling the rest of the way through, with a bit sized for the potshaft threads, using the big bit's [first bit] guide for center [the large flat bottom bits leave a guide detent in the center of the bottom of the hole]...done.
 Then I repeat for as many components as necessary, then drill 5/8'' or bigger wire routing holes from component hole to component hole, not  further disturbing the top or bottom of the guitar body, as close to 90 degrees as a long bit will make to run the connecting wires through. Then adding prebent copper sheet [around a dowel rod] is easy for grounded shielding. That and sheilded wire made my DIY guitar much lower noise floor than my others.
 Anyone building a guitar, this is one way to do it. Getting a 'conventional' control cavity shape without the proper wood shaping device is hard to do.

[Paul Marossy]

Got the two-piece pickguard made now. Mark Hammer's suggestion was a good one, so I went with it. I made it out of plastic for now. Here's what I have so far: http://www.diyguitarist.com/Guitars/SuperStrat.htm

As soon as I get my neck, I will check the fit of all the parts, and then I can commence doing the fabric top...  

[guitarhacknoise]

paul, that's a sweet project. lookin' real nice.
I know this guy has a danelectro with built in effects.
http://www.southernloveprod.com/gbi.htm

[Paul Marossy]

Thanks.

It's turning out better than I would have thought. One step at a time, I guess. It's going to be really cool when it's done. I'm just about at the point where I can do the fabric top part. If the weather isn't too cold, I should be able to finish this project in the next 2-3 weeks...

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello --
   Hey Paul!!!!---Coming in late to yer thread.......if you put a fabric top on the guitar  it will muffle any tone that the body wood has.   My experience with this kind of stuff does not yield good tone at all!   It will be brittle AND muddy all at once!  [Bad sustain, too].  How about just a good, thin lacquer with a good design on the top??
Brian.

[coreybox]

hm...i breadboarded the feedback circut, but i could never get it to work well. whenever i connect the battery, it would just make this really high pitched squeling sound and owuldnt respond to any notes. i would like to get it working though. thanks

corey

[Paul Marossy]

brian wenz-

Well, I hear what you're saying, but I think that depends on how you do it. That is why I stripped it down to bare wood. Some people at projectguitar.com suggested that I just rough up the existing surface and put the material right on top. But, that existing finish was nearly 1/16" in some places. That for sure would have sounded like crap if I did it like that! I think that I have a pretty good chance of that sounding alright with the approach that I have taken, IMO.

coreybox-

Hmm... what kind of "speaker" did you use?

[brian wenz]

Hello Paul-
   No matter how you do it the tone will be degraded.  Is there some pattern on this particular piece of fabric that is a "must have"   Too bad it can't be duplicated some other way.   Even a proper application of the "wallpaper method" would be better!
Good luck.
Brian.

[Paul Marossy]

No matter how you do it the tone will be degraded.

Not to discount your personal experience, but I don't agree. I think it depends on the body itself and how well it resonates. Adding a fabric top isn't like throwing a blanket over an amp. I mean, it's thin material (not like some heavy duty canvas or something), it's glued on to the top, encased in sanding sealer and then covered with some sort of clear finish.  I just don't see how that is really different than a coat of sanding sealer, primer, thick paint and maybe a clear coat on that. And while I'm at it, a maple top would be a bad idea, too, if you want to take that position.  

[Gilles C]

I also think that the finish you put on a guitar affects the sound, I noticed that wih a couple of guitars I built.

But they also say that Maple necks are faster than Rosewood necks.

Go tell that to Satriani, I think he doesn't know.  :lol:

So, I don't put my money on anything these days, life is full of surprises.  

I suppose the way to know is to try it. We should know for sure.

Btw, I've been searching for a mag that I have and that had a guitar featured with some kind of finish like that. But I have yet to find it. There was a soundclip of a sound test that I want to hear again. I wanted to modify a guitar to make it look like it...

Gilles

Added: I found it. It's a Lindert Victor-S  that I had in mind. But it's not a good comparaison because in core of the guitar os MDF...

A bit like the one with Tolex in the middle of the pade, but with more Tolex.

http://www.otheroom.com/NAMM98/Guitars.htm

Btw, did you see the guitars with a speaker in them. It must really help get more sustain...

[Paul Marossy]

I have heard and do believe that the finish on a guitar affects the tone to some degree. I think that is more critical on a acoustic or an archtop electric than a solid body electric, though. Anyhow, I am going to also be using an all maple neck, which typically sounds a little brighter than rosewood. That should offset any detrimental affects of my finish. I have heard a lot of guitars that should sound like crap based on what people say is bad, but have found the contrary in many instances. I guess this is also one of those highly subjective topics?!  :?

I think this guitar will have a nice tone when it is done. I guess we'll just have to see...  

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello-
    Paul--  A maple top properly glued to a guitar body blank is still wood and will resonate accordingly.  A piece of fabric  [ that will take alot more glue to adhere properly] followed by sanding sealer [again, quite a bit of sealer..] followed by multiples of clear coats  [again, THICK...]  actually IS like throwing a blanket over the works [and, will make the tone tinny as well.]  
A maple neck will not always sound brighter then one with a rosewood fretboard, either.
A well applied [thin] lacquer finish will allow the guitar to sound like it is supposed to, but if it still doesn't ound like you LIKE it then it's time to get a new piece of wood!   [I'm not talking about a thick, gloppy plastic finish like some guitars have...]
 I'm not saying that you will like how either one of these options sound [it may sound exactly how you  want it with a fabric top and a thick finish] but everything that is put on the body will alter the tone to greater or lessor degree.   People go crazy changing pickups around trying to get the sound they want when the real problem is tha guitar body itself!
Brian.

[Paul Marossy]

People go crazy changing pickups around trying to get the sound they want when the real problem is tha guitar body itself!

Yep. That's the truth.

OK, I will take the things you have said into consideration.
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. I'm just trying to understand. I have heard everything from your "DON'T DO IT!" to there's no problem at all from the people that have actually done it. Obviously, this is a highly subjective topic, just like pickups, woods, etc., etc...  

[brian wenz]

Hello Hello--
   Paul--  What I meant was "Don't do it" if you want the guitar to sound as "good"  [alive, vibrant, toneful, breathing piece of wood] as it can.  
There are people who love the sound of a plastic guitar and they play them very well.  They just don't get on with the tone of a wooden instrument....fair enough!   A  '50's Les Paul  [with a glued-on maple top] is thought to be the best electric guitar tone going [depending on the individual guitar...].  Some people play these very well and love the tone they get.  Good for them!    I happen to like the sound of all kinds of guitars [old Les Pauls, Strats, Telecasters, Flying V, National plastic-bodies, and Japanese Teisco guitars with more plastic and glitzy stuff on 'em to outfit a Halloween party...].  Each one sounds unique!
It all just depends on what you want to hear.  I know that if you do put the fabric top on the guitar and then decide it's not doing it for you, yer gonna need a bloody belt sander to take all that stuff off!
Hey, what about putting it together and playing it without the finish for a couple of days and seeing how you like it???   You can always add the other stuff later [or not].
Brian.

[Paul Marossy]

Hey, what about putting it together and playing it without the finish for a couple of days and seeing how you like it??? You can always add the other stuff later [or not].

Now that's an idea...  :wink:

[mat]

Hi Paul,

Check this site:

http://www.flyingfinnguitars.com/finstruments.htm

The  builder is using celluloid (read the text) to cover his guitars. I've played one of these guitars and they are superior ! The sound and feel.

Check the gallery also.

cheers,
mat

[jayp5150]

Okay, just my 2 cents--and I may be wrong...

Maple is a denser wood than Mahogony (right?), so, a maple top adds tightness to a LP, for instance, by reducing resonance allowed by the open-grained mahogony.  It actually counters the muddiness, if I'm thinking correctly.

My thought is this: the fabric may take away a bit of your resonance (which might mean a hair less sustain), but I don't see how it would be any worse than a guitar made out of a laminte or one of those resin-wood things Ibanez put out a while back (the Talman, maybe?).  If you want the cloth top--go for it.

Now, my suggestion is this:  you were installing a floating Floyd, right?  That right there loses sustain (due to small contact points on the bridge), so, rather than compromise the look of your guitar, make your floyd rest on the body (a la the wolfgang) to increase your sustain/resonance.  This will not allow you to pull up on the bar, but then you can add a D-tuna, which is the greatest small part add-on EVER (it's why I bought the wolf over choice #2).  This may be a bit more difficult if you have already routed for a floting trem, though.  But, if it's covered in cloth--who's gonna' see the patchwork anyway?

Okay, I'm done--bottom line: it's your guitar.

[vanhansen]

Or if the trem cavity is routed for floating, put a wood block between the sustain block of the floyd and the body in the trem cavity so the sustain block has some wood contact.  That helps increase the sustain with floyds alot.