Sustain killer possible?

[JimRayden]

Simple question: is it possible to build a unit that would take away lots of sustain? Jawari seems to do that but is it possible to make a clean simple sustain killer?

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Jimbo

[DDD]

A piece of {foam} rubber on the strings just near the bridge.

[JimRayden]

I can't switch the foam off and on, can I?


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Jimbo

[petemoore]

I had some kind of 'Ray' [del Ray, sting Ray I forget] anyway it had a see saw lever at the bridge, with a radiused metal piece that has foam on it, 'see saw' the lever up and it's a mute, see saw it down and it no longer touches the strings. ...Kinda worked, I like the Palm Mute better though...only tried it a littel through some other junk stuff.

[GreenEye]

My original version of the Bazz Fuss (home-wrecker.com) doesn't hardly have any sustain with a guitar.  Clips the high notes off real fast.

[davebungo]

You want an expander.  A noise gate is an example of an expander with a very large ratio.  It's sort of an inverse compressor.  As your signal level falls below an adjustable threshold, the gain is reduced more and more so this will probably do what you want.

[JimRayden]

Yeah, that's what I want... I couldn't find any schematics of expanders. I found a thing called "Miniwave Expander" but it uses programmed IC's in there and it gets too digital for DIY.

Greeneye, can you record a clip of what it does?

It seems that the DIY expanders seem to come out as accidents. I once built the runoffgroove Gem MkII amp and it worked as an expander also... But back then I didn't think it was a good effect and scrapped the thing. I may have the ruins of it though.

Anyway, can any circuit designer tell, what causes some misbuilt circuits to behave as an expander.

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Jimbo

[RickL]

Mark Hammer (I think) once posted some mods to turn John Holliss' Flatline compressor ( http://www.hollis.co.uk/john/circuits.html ) into an expander. I did the mods and it works. Search for Flatline and you'll probably find it.

[Mike Burgundy]

there's a chip often used in envelope detectors, digital wahs and such. It's called a compander, and consists of a simple compressor and a simple expander on one chip. SA571, not too expensive, with some basic ideas on the datasheet, too. Also, I think Jack Orman had some kind of project with this.
You could combine both sections in one pedal - hit one switch for compressor, hit the other for expander.

[Rodgre]

Also look into synthesizer ADSR (attack, decay, sustain and release) circuits.

That is pretty much what you're looking for as well. Something like the Paia Gator circuit may be able to be modified to do it as well.

Roger

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

Looking at the application notes of some compressor chips, they have a funcrtion called "downward expansion" (think that is what it was) which is a noise gate kind of function, if the signal is below a certain level, the gain is sharply decreased, which gives the impression of a noise gate but not so sudden.
In any case, the effect is the opposite of a compressor, so the result should be what you want. I'd check those Analog Devices SSM chips, if they have any still in production :x

[JimRayden]

Yes, a simple threshold is actually the thing I look for. I can see a treshold in Uglyface but is it possible to remove that buzz and just leave the threshold effect?


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Jimbo

[Cabezahead]

Sorry to be late to this but... Can't you just pull your fingers up and take off the sustain wherever and whenever you want

-CH

[Processaurus]

Dan Armstrong had patented a new sustain killing effect called the Articulator before he passed away last year, check out the samples on this page:
http://www.pupshah.demon.co.uk/danartic.htm

I want one bad...

sounds much different than taking your fingers off the strings.  I'm curious what you guys think is going on in this effect, be it expansion, or imposing an artificial envelope on the guitar.  

wonder if the circuit schematic is on the patent? :twisted:

[JimRayden]

Well, I built a PWM and discovered that treshold is not what i'm looking for. I need it smoother. Yes, like an envelope controller that would take even more volume away while the note decays. I don't think fingers would do here.

I want that to achieve the effect of a low-sustain old hollowbody feeling you hear in those old blues records' guitar solos. They decay rather quickly. there's like a big "ping!" of the note and first it decays quickly and then a quiet note rings. That kinda thing. I've tried to pick really hard but the sustain is still a problem. And palm muting doesn't give that first "ping!".

To put it into another words, I want "acoustic dynamics" from a stompbox.


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Jimbo

[Peter Snowberg]

http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=5961&highlight=punchline  

[jmusser]

I built Dragonfly's "Dirty Sanchez" the other day. It is a gatey fuzz that dies off immediately after the note is played. It has no sustain to speak of. The Punch-In-The Face has a hard attack adjustment on it, where it will die off immediately too.

[JimRayden]

Thanks, Peter. I found the schematic and it seems like a pretty easy project to turn any compressor into an expander.

jmusser, wouldn't that effect cut silent picking completely off? A note length regulator that follows dynamics would be a cool thingy too.

But i was looking for a smooth fadeaway. I'll search for a simple compressor. Then I'll ask Peter what to rewire to get an expander


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Jimbo

[jmusser]

Wouldn't that effect cut silent picking completely off? Yes it would! You have to play pretty aggressive to get them to fire, probably because of the biasing. That's not what you want if you're looking for something to play "Bread" songs with or something, because these are crunchomatic fuzzes, and are basically nasty. What songs would have the tone you're looking for?

[JimRayden]

Yea, I built the PWM and it cuts off at a certain level. It also has some heavy square waving on it. But I guess I could use that in some songs.

Well, the most famous example would be Beatles' "Twist and Shout". you can hear the ultradynamic guitar  in the beginning. Really quick decay on those ol' hollows. I want to capture that sound on a solid body electric.

Another example would be "Spoonful" (I think it was by Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf)

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Jimbo