MultiFace PROBLEMS

[analog kid]

Does ANYONE Here, Have a good diagram or layout to post of  the Multiface(at ROG) offboard wiring . as everything leaves the circuit board to pots, jacks and even how the switch should be wired if possible. I don't understand it I've been through this thing over and over and I'm going by standard off board wiring and other similar circuits wiring to do this one and I just cant' get something right!! Again the crkt seems to be fine it s just something going out of it and ROG doesn't EVEN SHOW A Schematic of it!!!!!  
I would love it if someone who's Built this crkt before , from that site preferrably , would post the proper wiring !
thanks alot , In Advance

[analog kid]

I just can't believe that of all the people here who have built one of these NOONE  has a pic or an explanation of the wiring . I really don't even need the off board stuff that goes to the switch , I have tried a DP,  3P , and a reg SPDT switch and none make a diff, so I guess that's not part of the problem. I know the ROG article has the layout and part of the Pot wiring but I have wired it exaclty as stated and can't get this thing going. So I belive the problem in my wiring has to be to do with the POTS, JACKS , and Battery connections.   Which Is also wierd ,even though the board is getting power at the +9vlt. to ground pads , when I test the transistor pads i get b att vltage at the Collector and only Millivolts on the E and Base.  Matter of fact the last time I tried I was getting a Negative millivolt reading on the emitter!
I am haveing a heck of a time w/ this circuit and I just completed an Axis Fuzz face with not too much trouble adn It sounds GREAT!!
Guess it's time to start another proj and Leave this be awhile....
UNLESS someone can help me!!!

[B Tremblay]

If you read the Multi-Face page carefully, you'll see a link to Tim Escobedo's Many Faces of Fuzz article.  That's where you'll find the schematic:
http://www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/fuzzyfaces.html

[analog kid]

No I saw the "many faces.. " article by Escobedo with the five basic fuzz crkt examples, but didn't think that was what I should be looking at for the crkt. When reading the MultiFace article you see where 'Gary' says that He took "Tim's" schematic and ran with it ...which made me think that it wouldn't have been the same exact schematic as the ones on 'the Many Faces..." EVEN though he said he followed Tim Escobedo's schematic
SO I just didn't think that was the  one I should use for it. Not to mention that all 5 of those examples are slightly different from each other, and none show the full laout , Which I realize I shojldn't need but I'm new at this building from scratch , And this is why I hoped that someone who built one could give me the off board wiring layout.
thanks

[B Tremblay]

JD Sleep has a great set of diagrams for different bypass arrangements here:
http://generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=172&Itemid=200

[analog kid]

ALRIGHT, thanks for that link , I kind of thought that most off board stuff was relatively Universal for all projects so that's why some scem's and layouts leave that stuff off . Anyway....
I thought the problem was in the wiring to pots, jacks,etc... but even after correcting all those connections and trying the effect I still have only a signal when bypassed, So i checked the voltages only to find that power (8.5v) is getting TO the circuit BUT AT the Transistors  it gets strange...... The Emitter and Base of Q1 and Q2 read barely anything 1-3milV BUT the COLLECTOR of each Transitor has the full 8.5 v battery voltage!!! I didn't think any leg should ever have that much V in a Fuzz crkt.
SO Any Ideas ?

[analog kid]

ALRIGHT, thanks for that link , I kind of thought that most off board stuff was relatively Universal for all projects so that's why some scem's and layouts leave that stuff off . Anyway....
I thought the problem was in the wiring to pots, jacks,etc... but even after correcting all those connections and trying the effect I still have only a signal when bypassed, So i checked the voltages only to find that power (8.5v) is getting TO the circuit BUT AT the Transistors  it gets strange...... The Emitter and Base of Q1 and Q2 read barely anything 1-3milV BUT the COLLECTOR of each Transitor has the full 8.5 v battery voltage!!! I didn't think any leg should ever have that much V in a Fuzz crkt.
SO Any Ideas ? I'm starting this problem out as another post , in anticipation that It may spark a whole new set of responses unrelated to my initial request for layout info.

[petemoore]

Lots of them.
 Miswire or misresistor value.
 Transistor orientation
 cap orientation
 Like this:
 Battery voltage is ?.xV
 Q1
C
B
E
 Q2
C
B
E
the 22uf polarized cap
- = ?
+ = ?
 Is easier to read and analyze.
 Did you socket the Q's ?
 Measure Q1C to power supply resistance.
 ...Perhaps is the collector of Q2 connected to Q1C instead of Q1B ?

[analog kid]

well, thanks for that list of possible flaws
and I assume(from looking at the schem.) that you MEANT the Collector of Q1 (not Q2) being connected to Q2's Base instead of Collector
And yes, not only did I not have it connected to the proper leg, BUT NOT AT ALL!! Easy to overlook that stuff even when you're going over  and over it.
So I'll connect that with my Circuit Pen and then try it out and write down all of those voltages to post here, IF it still doesn't work of course.
I 'll get back in a few.

[analog kid]

Ok Here's what I have now, and firstly let me say that I appreciate the help I'm getting on this forum!
Bvolt. 8.05v
22uf Cap  + = .7v
              -  =  apprx. 2millVolts
Q1    C = 1.5v
       B = .67v
       E =  0

Q2    C = 5.79v
       B  = 1.69v
       E  = .724v

Major improvement from what I had before and ALSO I DO have it "WORKING" in both on and off positions. The big problem is that the  Volume is Major HOT when effect is ON compared to bypassed and  the Fuzz is really kind of raunchy /splatty sounding and the Fuzz Control doesn't really Cut or Boost the fuzz alot (it's just a constant Mild fuzz)
NOTE: the only deviation that I have is that I DO have a 500ohm pot in there as a volume and wondered if that is resulting in this HUGE volume because when it's turned down to about 1-2 it's not bad and that's about where the vol is even with bypass.

[petemoore]

There should be exactly 0v potential read when measureing from Ground to ground. Also see that there is 0 ohms resistance from Gnd to Gnd.
 Alternatively you can check for continuity from any ground to circuit ground.
 When following a schematic, Gnd. should always = Gnd.
 [Cold solder?]

[analog kid]

OK the thing I never understood about COLD solder joints....If the joint shows continuity between itself and whatever it should be 'grounded' to, doesn't that MEAN that it's NOT "cold"
  Here's everything that I have going to ground:
The 22uf cap(neg)side
Trimpot (one outside leg)
Emitter of Q1
LUG 1 of the volume pot
and both input and output jack
I believe that is ALL.

If I set this thing in Just the Right spot (volume way down and Fuzz pot a notch from all the way up) it sounds great, But this squeal/interference noise is maddening!!! Which is present at about any other setting

[petemoore]

One side is "Good Solder joint'
 The other side is "Cold solder"...not a good joint, will show lack of continuity immediately or over time....and is 'sneaky' in that it may even be intermittently failing...
 To tell a cold solder...lets see, they 'look a certain way...best way is to tell you probably DONT have one, by starting with a well heated clean iron tip, then add just a small touch of solder, or enough to transfer the heat from the tip to ALL metal surfaces to be joined, then give the heat a moment to transfer...Then add enough solder to make a physically strong structure...solder should be stuck to all metal surfaces around/in the joint.
 I've used cruddy cheep wire types that just don't take solder at all very well...just long enough to find more suitable materials to work with. Of course decent wire [most is] and good soldering materials and tools certainly makes a difference.
 I say 22mv is NOT Ground...Ground is a reference voltage of Z E R O in this circuit.

[analog kid]

Well I seem to have the circuit WORKING now , it ]was sort of working al along and I did work out a few bugs and overall it's a great sounding fuzz when it's set right and not giving off wierd interference and high frequency squeals , I"m just not happy that the Volume control is almost useless, in that it has to be kept right between OFF and about 2or3 to be unity with bypass and pretty much can't be turned up much more . If it is not only is the vol. deafening but it will also bring on the "interference " (as long as the Fuzz pot is up enough)   SO it's a big pain but does sound good in the right setup.
I have a question , if the Multiface is like a Fuzz Face SANSAMP due to the socketed Transistors and IN / OUT Capacitors.. letting you try all different combos Then isn't it possible to use many other types of Fuzzface circuits The SAME WAY? As long as you socketed those components??? OR are there some 'special' measures taken in the rest of the MultFace crkt to make this switching more effective?
If so I will just socket the Caps in my Axis Face and try using IT in this manner, rather than fight this one. although as i said I do have it working now. It's just that I've other effects I'd like to move on to..