TS9 sounds like poo but only on MY SS amp

[RLBJR65]

Sounds great on my bench amp, an LM386 based amp I use for testing and signal tracing, also great with my buddy's Crate SS but really sounds like crap on my Peavy Audition 30. It's a 20 watt TDA2030 based amp.
Here is a discription of the amp I found.
http://www.rexrobards.com/riqueriquardo/6a02714132.html
Yeah it's not a great amp but I'm not much of a guitar player either, and I got it cheap, 20 bucks at a thrift store, it just had a cap with a cold solder joint that needed resolderd! It really does sound better than the discription, at least with my old Teisco that has single wound pickups.

I built it with Tonepads layout no mods. or subs. symetrical clipping.
http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=81

Sounds like a bad filter, kind of like playing in a bucket, the notes are flat almost no sustain and for some reason when playing chords it sounds like the guitar is way out of tune. Tone controll doesn't seem to cause much change, at lower gain setting it sounds slightly better but still bad.

I can't figure out why it sounds so bad, I built a ProCo Rat a few weeks ago and it sounds great on it. Fuzz Face, Ross compressor, Bobtavia, Pushme Pullyou, Fetzer, and about 20 others I've built all sound ok.

I'm thinking there is some kind of odd frequency problem. Maybe why the guitar sounds out of tune? Would a buffer help?

Any Ideas? Other than get a better amp :lol:

[MartyMart]

Ha !  got the same problem, both my modded TS-9 and self built sound like crap on my little "Park G10r" but great on my valve amps !!
Could be a little too much "bottom end" from C2 being increased from
.047 to .1  ?
Did you do the "gain" mods ?
how is it with the gain "backed off" a little ?
crank the tone pot to roll off some bass.....

Marty.

[Ben N]

FWIW, that is pretty much my experience, too.  Personally, I use an unmodded TS-9 reissue mostly as a lead boost, with the gain at about 9:00 and the level cranked--into a tube amp with at least a 12" speaker.  For straight OD, I have better pedals.

Ben

[Paul Marossy]

Where the Tube Screamer really shines is pushing a tube amp into more distortion/overdrive. It doesn't really sound good with a SS amp, IMO.

[AL]

I agree with Paul - it's not called a Transistor Screamer. It sounds great pushing a tube amp though.

Quick nightmare story - my Fender Quad Reverb decided not to work about 10 minutes before a gig a few weeks ago (my stupidity - it took me all of 5 minutes to fix it) and the guitarist for one of the other bands was nice enough to let me use his amp. He saved my backside but his amp was a solid state Fender stack. Well, my Tube Screamers sounded horrible as did everything else about the amp - thin, grainy, no punch, cold, sterile and that awful SS "overdrive" sound - eeeeyuck !!! But, back to the twin with the Tube Screamers and it sounds great. After that experience I would definitely not recommend a TS in front of a SS amp.

AL

[jimbob]

The ts-9 and now modded 808 both sound great on my tube XXX Peavey, but I thought it sounded great on my SS 30watt Marshall I used to own.

[Paul Marossy]

I thought it sounded great on my SS 30watt Marshall I used to own

Well, there is always exceptions. And people feel differently about tone as well. Perhaps that is one THE MOST subjective topics guitarists could ever talk about...  :wink:

[RLBJR65]

Thanks for the replies! I agree it's never going to sound as good on most SS amps, but what I can't understand is why it sounds ok (tone, gain and vol. all work fine) on 2 different SS amps and just plain bad on the 3rd.

The effects tone setting doesn't seem to make much difference at all in the amount of distortion. It kind of cleans up for single notes with the gain at 0 and vol. around 2 but still has that wierd out of tune sound when playing chords.

[Paul Marossy]

what I can't understand is why it sounds ok (tone, gain and vol. all work fine) on 2 different SS amps and just plain bad on the 3rd.

Could be differences in the designs of the amps.

It kind of cleans up for single notes with the gain at 0 and vol. around 2 but still has that wierd out of tune sound when playing chords.

Will it do it when the TS is not being played thru it (the 3rd amp)? If so, that could indicate a problem with your amp - maybe the filter caps are going bad and/or they are undersized and the TS is pushing the preamp hard enough to tax the power section of the amp for this to show up (or something to that effect).  

OR, your speaker cone is is faulty, and once again, the TS could be pushing the amp hard enough for the problem to become self-evident.

[petemoore]

My Exp's with playing SS amps is that they all do something at least sort of passably, maybe two things or even more...even one added gain stage is enough to produce nasty tones and unbearable noises [they're usually tweeked up with Boost 'n Fuzz built in].
 Then there's Digi amps that do 'everything'...  a little bit, and ...say a super duper Clean Fender Tone to perfection.
 Neither of these options bode all that well with Analog SB's, at least the ones I've tried [always exceptions...a TS type really helped out a new Behringer modeling amp, but then we compared it to his also new Classic 30...the 'comparing' was over after 2 seconds.
 THEN, there are Tube Amps that do many things Superbly, and can be made to work well with a wide variety of effects, to get classic, popularized tones your'e fond of...lol.
 What you expect out of your amp may or may not be what it does.
 More substantial amps [tube] sound more substantial when asked to do a variety of things well IME.
 >>>Not to say a transistor amp can't be made to do 'this' very well, or 'that' pretty good...but I'm just a tube headed guy. If you're looking for 'that' particular tone...say Hendrix or Page or Clapton or Richards or...etc. try every transistor amps first...lol...they just don't get the 'leaned on sound' of output amp/speaker loading, hard 'n soft' distortions, 'natural' compression...they just don't seem to like having their inputs hammered...]?].

[bwanasonic]

The *out of tune* thing is what I can't figure. I've used a TS9 into SS amps, direct to 4tk, as well as tube amps, and never got anything like that. Sure, it sounds better into a tube amp, but it should *work* into pretty much anything. Must be some sort of intermodulation?

Kerry M

[Paul Marossy]

Must be some sort of intermodulation?

Duh. That's a more likely scenario than my filter cap suggestion, although, it sounds good.  :lol:
Maybe the particular transistors/opamps in that amp respond that way when overdriven?

OK, now I have to ask: Who is the manufacturer and what is the model number of amp #3?

[David]

Neither of these options bode all that well with Analog SB's, at least the ones I've tried [always exceptions...a TS type really helped out a new Behringer modeling amp, but then we compared it to his also new Classic 30...the 'comparing' was over after 2 seconds.

Please say the Classic 30 was the winner...

[RLBJR65]

Peavy Audition 30. It's a 20 watt TDA2030 based amp.
[/list:u]

Intermodulation, hmm. A quick google search came up with this
defenition / explanation.
http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=26
Yes, after reading that I'd have to say that sure could be the problem!

OK next question. What could be the source of the additional frequency? Would it have to be in the audible range or could RF do it? Sounds like maybe feedback could possibly cause this. I only had the preamp set on 1 and vol. at around 2 - 2 1/2 no feedback that I was aware of.

Thanks again for the replies! Already learned something I didn't know anything about and thats always good I'm going to keep searching and reading. Any help would be greatly appreciated though.

[petemoore]

Neither of these options bode all that well with Analog SB's, at least the ones I've tried [always exceptions...a TS type really helped out a new Behringer modeling amp, but then we compared it to his also new Classic 30...the 'comparing' was over after 2 seconds.

Please say the Classic 30 was the winner...

Sorry, I'm Assuming again...I was trying to let it go without saying.
 I said, might as well hang on to that Behringer, actually it's nice at 250$, for a 2x12'' combo with 'every effect'...the controller IIRC was 329...go figure, might like having that clean sound or the 'wierd effects' it has built in it. so what he had in that amp new is 550%.
 Then he got the Classic 30 for 350, Played a couple settings on teh B, I think it was called 'crunchy' and 'british' 'lead' or something.
 Then he deplugged the B, and enter the reign of the 30, an enourmous SMILE begat his head...pretty big one on mine too.
 I use a MkII Marshall 50w 'n 4 greenback Celestion cab. I could tell the 30 had serious 'juice' in it, but needed better  'speakering' [1x 12'' don't let the amp sound right...Opinion of course]..shortly thereafter the other speaker showed up, and stories of happy amping abound.
 I told him some of the guys on the forum swear by that amp, and the HC reviews are real good....he GOT one, and what a heck of a deal that was...I was like drooling...REVERB and all...I [I say] I Could USE one of THOSE !!!

[MartyMart]

Peavy Audition 30. It's a 20 watt TDA2030 based amp.
[/list:u]

Intermodulation, hmm. A quick google search came up with this
defenition / explanation.
http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=26
Yes, after reading that I'd have to say that sure could be the problem!

OK next question. What could be the source of the additional frequency? Would it have to be in the audible range or could RF do it? Sounds like maybe feedback could possibly cause this. I only had the preamp set on 1 and vol. at around 2 - 2 1/2 no feedback that I was aware of.

Thanks again for the replies! Already learned something I didn't know anything about and thats always good I'm going to keep searching and reading. Any help would be greatly appreciated though.

Take a read over at www.ts808.com  thats "Jacques" site  and he knows his "TS' sound for sure.
There's a whole section on them ( written in an understandable but "nutty" way -- typical Jacques )
His take is that "TS" are for LOUD "Stage" volume tube amps and nothing else  !!
I would tend to agree, thats where they come into their own, not too dirty but just pushing your amp over the edge.
In front of 'SS' amps/ recording pre-amps, I think it always sounds like Poo  !!

Marty.

[Paul Marossy]

I still want to know what the manufacturer/model is for amp #3...  :wink:

[RLBJR65]

The 3 amps I tried it on are - (1) LM386 (2) Crate GT15R, sorry didn't know the model when I first posted (3) Peavy Audition 30.

I'm going to try some better shielding methods than I normal use, from what I've read that may help. RF is the prime suspect, I have an FM transmitter a few hundred yards down the road. Some of my other pedals mostly, high gain discrete and anything with an LM386 or 741 pick up the radio PDG but just throwing them in a box or if I'm still working on them, covering them up with a cake pan usually prevents that.

Sounds like it could be a lot of things though and maybe I'll never get it resolved at least with the test equipment I currently have . Here are a few more things I've been reading, might find them interesting. There is tons of info on this subject out there.
http://www.softwright.com/faq/support/intermod_finding_solving.html
http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/tech_corner/garys/wireless4_1.shtml
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/amp.html#c4

I don't need a big amp, just one that sounds big! I'm only 3 caps away from building my own variation of Doug Hammond's Firefly. Come back Doug!!! I'll save that for another post though. So hopfully very soon the Peavy can go Bye, Bye!

Thanks for the help Guy's

[Paul Marossy]

Thanks, I was just curious. That's interesting. So, it was the Peavey that did the weirdness?

That's cool about the Firefly variation, that's a cool amp. I think you'll like it.  Can I inquire about what modifications you did to it?

[RLBJR65]

Nothing exciting just adding a simple one knob tone controll. I'll post a schem. when I get it working.