What would two tremolos in series/parallel give?

[JimRayden]

Well, there was a topic about using two wah pedals.

What about tremolo pedals series/parallel? I set two pedals to a differend frequency. That'll result in what? I think I can imagine what I can get but can anyone put it in words?

--------------
Jimbo

[MartyMart]

Could be interesting Jim, in a st st stuttering way, or they could just "cancel" each other out ie: as one peak rises the other falls = no volume wobble !!

Marty.

[moosapotamus]

http://www.commonsound.com/panneur.html      

~ Charlie

[JimRayden]

They would cancel each other out only if they were at the same frequency but "backwards". If they'd be set like that, a parallel would give a slight wobbeling or no tremolo at all since they are added to each other. If they'd set up series, there'd be no volume or a low colume wobble.

still, what'd happen if they'd be set with different frequencies?

I'm guessing there would appear a "major", slower tremolo, caused by the phase changing. Anyone got a more precise thought?

-----------
Jimbo

[JimRayden]

Wouln't a panner also have the same frequency for both of the channels? Or is Tremulus Panneur a special one with selectable frequency splitter?

EDIT: aha, I see, there's a sync switch.
EDITEDIT: what does it sound like?

--------------
Jimbo

[space_ryerson]

A headache.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[NaBo]

depends a lot on settings... i think in parralel would be more interesting, because in series, the second trem is limited by how much signal the first is letting through... so it wouldnt matter if trem 2 is at its peak volume if trem 1 is at its lowest.

I've messed around with double-trem-action on my digitech RP300 a bit using the tremolo effect and the 2 LFO filters.  nothing spectacular, but i managed to sound something like the beginning of Cacophony - Speed Metal Symphony for a bit.  I'm not gonna go build another trem after my pulsar though  

[RickL]

I've done it a couple of times, once with three Kay tremolos in an attempt to duplicate what my EH Pulse Modulator should sound like if I can ever get it working (if anyone has a schematic for this I would love to see it).

The sound can range from ho-hum (pretty much sounds like just one tremolo) to quite interesting if you can get the depths and rates working well together. One interesting sound is to set one trem fairly slow with fairly low depth and the other faster and deeper. You get a pulsing sound that fades in and out. Another variation is to have both depths fairly high and rates fairly close to the same. This sounds almost like random volume variations.

I'm pretty sure I had better luck putting the trems in series. When they're in parallel the only time the volume drops is when both trems happen to be off. I seem to remember the effect being more apparent when there was more silence or lower volume than signal.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

When you run a LFO into one side of a ring modulator, the audio signal goes up & down, like a tremolo, BUT!! every second 'pulse' is out of phase.
So, if you had a batch of 'tremolos' made that way, when any two outputs are added together, they might or might not be in phase. Whihc would lead to a better effect, thatn what happens putting normal trems in parallel.
Of course, what one should do, rather than use a bunch of separate trems,  is to work with combining independent LFOs, and use the result to drive a single trem stage.
Something like Ken Stone's Psycho LFO, for example.
www.cgs.synth.net/modules/psycho_lfo.html
BTW, you can buy boards from Ken.

[Mark Hammer]

Other than a few medical and non-medical drug experiences way back when, I think the most mentally paralyzed I have ever been in my life was at a gig in 1980, when I had a Leslie to my right on slow speed, and a Gretsch amp to my left with its tremolo on a slow speed.  If we had done the theme song to the supermarionation show "Stingray", I think I would have forgotten the words to that.

Dual unsynced modulations have varying outcomes, depending on whether they are used in stereo or series/mono.  In stereo, they do a staggeringly good job of screwing up attention.  Some of the old Rhodes pianos and their amp/cabs had a wonderful panning tremolo (not unlike the Flying Pan, just without the phasing) that would send you off into dreamland.  Just the perfect thing to watch a Peter Max-like cartoon (think Yellow Submarine).  

When used in series, other thigs start to happen.  The first, and most important is that decreasing the "periodicity" of the modulation allows the listener to free up attention.  That is, the more random the throbbing the more you hear the notes and the less you hear the throbbing.  That is one of the many reasons why "multi-phase" chorusses like the Solina, Arp, and Dimension C/D sound as pleasing as they do: you're not slavishly forced to listen to things going up and down and up and down.  If I stick two phase shifters in series, they produce a pleasingly ambient sound that just seems "busier" and more textured, without being up and down and up and down and up and down. ame goes for just about any two modulation devices.

The other thing that starts to happen is that if the second device introduces any level-related coloration at all (e.g., if there is just the slightest hint of distortion on the volume peaks or at some reliably-occurring point in the modulation cycle), the first device, by virtue of being unsynced, will make THAT more random, yielding a pleasingly more complex tone.  Indeed, one of the reasons why something like a Univibe sounds so much better BEFORE a distortion than AFTER one is because the swept notches make the notes distort just a little differently all the time, depending on whether the Univibe takes away just enough signal as you pick to move it below the clipping threshold or not.

[puretube]

in the 40`s and 50`s of last century,
a lot of research has been done in the "electrical organ" field,
to have electromechanical sounddevices behave like churchorgan
pipes, their intonation, and the effect of the "beat-notes" of their
harmonix... that`s how the so-called "Chorus" effect was created.
One of the great goals, was to get a "non-monotonous" variation
of sound - be it with, or without volume modulation.
For ~30 years, that effect was attempted to be created without
"real" delay devices: out came the "Leslie", the "vibe",and the "phaser".
Besides the name"chorus", someother illustre names originated from that strive...

ooops - got a little astray from pure tremolo - just imagined Mark`s experience...

[puretube]

ps.: concerning "pure" tremolo, I fully have to agree with RickL (series-trem),
and P.P.,while what Paul suggests (2LFOs into 1 VCA), comes down to the same effect as 2 trems in series, without the neccessity of a 2nd modulator.

that scenario comes true if you work in mono.

Once you`re gonna use a two-channel setup (live: 2 amps/studio: stereo),
of course you should send the signal parallel into 2 trems, with their individual outputs routed to the individual channels...

oh, yes, and then use "stereo-spreaders", and partially inverted crosstalk, delay, and stuff...