not gain, drive, dist...

[mat]

Hi,

I was thinking that if there is an english word for the thing that is happening when tube amp is pushed and it gives very smooth almost-'drive' but not overdrive-distortion-fuzz-etc..

..kind of creamy-gainy sound but without a hint of shrill or harshness..

If You are familiar with Larry Carltons playing with Dumble then You might know what I'm talking about.

I'm just curious for the word  :roll:

cheers,
mat

[amz-fx]

If You are familiar with Larry Carltons playing with Dumble then You might know what I'm talking about.

I'm just curious for the word

Talent.

Seriously...  years ago I had an Acoustic brand amp - all solidstate.  It sounded like horse puckey most of the time.  I loaned it to a friend to use and it sounded quite nice when he played through it....  most of the sound was coming from his fingers...

-Jack

[mat]

If You are familiar with Larry Carltons playing with Dumble then You might know what I'm talking about.

I'm just curious for the word

Talent.

Seriously...  years ago I had an Acoustic brand amp - all solidstate.  It sounded like horse puckey most of the time.  I loaned it to a friend to use and it sounded quite nice when he played through it....  most of the sound was coming from his fingers...

-Jack

Yes Jack, that is definetly a major part of it, but I think it is a combination of things that makes the sound. I was just hunting the word... if there is one  :?

mat

[amz-fx]

I was just hunting the word... if there is one

I'm not sure there is an exact word to match that fat, rich, slightly distorted, blooming tube-like tone....   Robben Ford has it as well.

regards, Jack

[onboard]

Talent.

No one's posted a schematic for that yet...  :wink:

[petemoore]

I've been messing with low voltage Si and Jfet circuits, using an LM317 regulator and diodes added in series.
 I take the 317 output and use that for V+ on a circuit, then add a diode or two V drop on the next one, this makes for a nice 'pallete' of softer distortions.
 I don't know those players sounds exactly, but if you're after softer Distortion, I can recommend these LV circuits at AMZ Labs Notebook and Mini Booster as a great alternative to TS or 9V boosters.
 'Clean Distortion' I guess you could call it, 'Jazzy'...?
 Can easily be adjusted or added to chain to make clean, and other sounds, the way I use it is to get just enough harmonics going to make it sustain interestingly...gets a different and great attack sound I wasn't previously able to attain.
 HB's or SC's > Compression[>Bypass] > LV circuit > Reverb > Tube Amp > G Speakers...I love it !!  ...A 'pallette loaded with Pastels'...sounds like 'guitar' with added timbre...or....[
 Another one I'm working with as of last night that fits into this category is 'Simple Sim'...I'm revoicing a bit, and adding stuff like input pre-gain...real nice ampsound type circuit.

[mat]

I was just hunting the word... if there is one

I'm not sure there is an exact word to match that fat, rich, slightly distorted, blooming tube-like tone....   Robben Ford has it as well.

regards, Jack

Ok, maybe the sound (and word) is different to the next guy.

I love Robbens tone    :!:

mat

[mat]

I've been messing with low voltage Si and Jfet circuits, using an LM317 regulator and diodes added in series.
 I take the 317 output and use that for V+ on a circuit, then add a diode or two V drop on the next one, this makes for a nice 'pallete' of softer distortions.
 I don't know those players sounds exactly, but if you're after softer Distortion, I can recommend these LV circuits at AMZ Labs Notebook and Mini Booster as a great alternative to TS or 9V boosters.
 'Clean Distortion' I guess you could call it, 'Jazzy'...?
 Can easily be adjusted or added to chain to make clean, and other sounds, the way I use it is to get just enough harmonics going to make it sustain interestingly...gets a different and great attack sound I wasn't previously able to attain.
 HB's or SC's > Compression[>Bypass] > LV circuit > Reverb > Tube Amp > G Speakers...I love it !!  ...A 'pallette loaded with Pastels'...sounds like 'guitar' with added timbre...or....[
 Another one I'm working with as of last night that fits into this category is 'Simple Sim'...I'm revoicing a bit, and adding stuff like input pre-gain...real nice ampsound type circuit.

Hi petemoore,

Very interesting things You mentioned. I'm in situation where i've built about 20 effect pedals and have covered my effect needs guite nicely. Now i'm into trying to develop the 'clean distortion' (nice two words for the thing i'm after) soundish pedal. I'm still novice at this so things like You described on Your post are very welcome to me  

Thank You,
mat

[aron]

ALRIGHT! Finally! It comes around again!

Another Larry/Robben Ford lover!  

You know, that's one of the goals I have had for a long time. To get a pedal that will get me close to Larry's sound.

I cannot get that great tone he had in the first album (Boogie+335), but I am so close with the later stuff.

Of couse the key is that he uses a lot less distortion lately (with exception of the work with Lukather).

I've only heard one other guy get a "Larry tone" and he was using a Les Paul through a Boogie combo.

[mat]

ALRIGHT! Finally! It comes around again!

Another Larry/Robben Ford lover!  

You know, that's one of the goals I have had for a long time. To get a pedal that will get me close to Larry's sound.

I cannot get that great tone he had in the first album (Boogie+335), but I am so close with the later stuff.

Of couse the key is that he uses a lot less distortion lately (with exception of the work with Lukather).

I've only heard one other guy get a "Larry tone" and he was using a Les Paul through a Boogie combo.

Hi aron,

Its definitely in simplicity, i think. Not multi stage overdrivething.

I've came closest with L's/R's sound with singlecoil going in modded Blue Magic into single ended tube amp.

I like the 'hotness' of their sound without being distorted. That kind of sound/setup gives you so much variations while playing depending of the picking attack. SWEET sound - SWEET players. Scott Henderson is also great  

cheers,
mat

[aron]

Scott uses a lot of distortion. Less so in his blues playing, but live, he uses a lot.

If you think about it, they all use a multi-stage circuit - except for Larry who uses the clean channel of the Dumble - but cranked way, way up.

The early 335 tone was a good Boogie.

And yes, it IS in the fingers. I heard Larry's rig through the tech guy and it didn't sound like him.... it sounded "ordinary". :?

[Claus H]

You should try this.. http://www.runoffgroove.com/umble.html
This is a FET (If you can really do that:) ) rebuild of the Dumble amp Larry and Robben use..  Or try Menatone Howie much the same thing..

Robben Ford's last album was recordet with a Banzai Fireball II Overdrive as his major drive or so I understand.. The sound was a bit Fuzz'ier than normal but did still sound like Robben Ford..

Later

Claus H

[puretube]

"Tube Sound" might be the word you`re looking for?

[aron]

It's really elusive to me. I've built "umble" overdrive circuits both as pedals and as amps!

I guess it will just have to be a one of those quests that take a while.

[object88]

This is a FET (If you can really do that:) ) rebuild of the Dumble amp Larry and Robben use..

If it's a Dumble remake using FETs, doesn't that make it a Fumble?

<ducks, runs away>

[aron]

:lol:

[mat]

Scott uses a lot of distortion. Less so in his blues playing, but live, he uses a lot.

If you think about it, they all use a multi-stage circuit - except for Larry who uses the clean channel of the Dumble - but cranked way, way up.

The early 335 tone was a good Boogie.

And yes, it IS in the fingers. I heard Larry's rig through the tech guy and it didn't sound like him.... it sounded "ordinary". :?

Yes Scotts fusion stuff has lots of gain-overdrive-distortion. But i like most of his slightly cleaner stuff (blues).

I have one of Larrys instructional video where he says he uses valley arts guitar and dumble with the amps overdrive section also. So nice sound   Cleans with volume knob complitely.

mat

[mat]

You should try this.. http://www.runoffgroove.com/umble.html
This is a FET (If you can really do that:) ) rebuild of the Dumble amp Larry and Robben use..  Or try Menatone Howie much the same thing..

Robben Ford's last album was recordet with a Banzai Fireball II Overdrive as his major drive or so I understand.. The sound was a bit Fuzz'ier than normal but did still sound like Robben Ford..

Later

Claus H

Hi,

I've built the umble and while liking it a lot it does not give me the sound i'm after as good as the blue magic + tube amp.

Really Robben usedthe fireball2 on the record  :shock: I had the fireball2 for sometime but sold it after i built the blue magic + bsiab 1 and 2 and the ROG eighteen. Some soundclips in http://koti.welho.com/mtiilama/

I think Robbens main drive comes from driving the tube amps hard.

cheers,
mat

[mat]

It's really elusive to me. I've built "umble" overdrive circuits both as pedals and as amps!

I guess it will just have to be a one of those quests that take a while.

sigh.. :cry:

Any soundclips of those Aron ?

mat

[mat]

"Tube Sound" might be the word you`re looking for?

Yes, maybe but not the kind of tube sound my EL95 champ has (while I like it also).

http://koti.welho.com/mtiilama/sound/el95champ.mp3

mat