As if there isn't enough, more fuzz face questions!

[triskadecaepyon]

Okay, I know it's like beating a dead horse... but I have questions about my silly litte fuzz face.  It currently is in working order, and is PNP.  I am using the PCB from Tonepad, and I got the GE's from smallbear and used their resistor values.  Personally, it sounds OK, but I've never heard a real one in person.  Several questions here:

1) When I have any low freq's (i.e. E or A string), the sound "buzzes", as if it were a bad string buzz.  It's sounds like a "thwap" almost, as if it were a slap bass ocillating.  It really annoys the heck out of me.  otherwise, the other strings sound perfect.  Anyone?

2) Do fuzz faces sound like crap with a SS amp?  I don't have a tube amp to test it with.

3) Anyone have a clip of the fuzz face DI to the computer, so I can compare my fuzz face's sound?

The fuzz face seems more complecated than my small clone build and sansamp

[mrsage]

Do you have a Digital Multimeter?

What are the voltages on each leg of your transistors?

[mrsage]

Also, are these PNP germanium transistors? Did you build the Fuzz Face with positive or negative ground?

[triskadecaepyon]

Do you have a Digital Multimeter?

What are the voltages on each leg of your transistors?

The question I fear.  The DMM.  I think I have to borrow one when I get home

[petemoore]

2) Do fuzz faces sound like crap with a SS amp?
 I suppose it depends on whoe's answering, I think so, but only tried one once on a Fender Frontman 25. FF's cause interesting things to happen as far as distortion, when input to tube[s...I build a 1/2 Shaka, the tube part and run Distortions into it with successes.
 DMM readings will tell the tale of whether it's within operational bias parameters, the fact of distorted boosted signal is a pretty sure sign that the FF is probably wired correctly [though there are a couple mistakes possible that would still allow this].
 I don't suppose you trimpotted instead of using the 8K2 Q2CR...the DMM will help guage how necessary you think adjusting Q2C bias is.

[guavatone]

"1) When I have any low freq's (i.e. E or A string), the sound "buzzes", as if it were a bad string buzz. It's sounds like a "thwap" almost, as if it were a slap bass ocillating. It really annoys the heck out of me. otherwise, the other strings sound perfect. Anyone? "


Sounds like the FF is trying to "grab" those low notes and compress the signal but it can't.   Thats why there's that Low rolloff cap on input.  I think some Ge tranies sound better than others making the FF hard to plug-and-play.  you may want to play with this circuit on a proto-board.  As others say check the voltages.  But also, you may want to get  a few different Ge transstors and see which ones squash the bass and treble evenly.  For now you may want to play around with the input cap value to get it working better with the bass.  


This is just my ideas, others may have different methods to help

peace.

[petemoore]

Ti'll ya know what a FF does in that amp, or what a different amp does with that FF.
 My Fave these days is the AXIS FACE. Pretty easy to get this one working 'right'. I just like the Faceyness of it and the smooth response...very nice sounding circuit, cost me a few buxx only to build one up, 2n2369 in Q1...2n4401 in Q2...works great [I think I chose between a few 2369's]. For ten or so buxx you could have a second FF known to work right [when it's right].
  Or find a different amp to run the Ge FF through. IIRC I ran FF's into a SS amp to see what the type was about [the stuff about tube distortion using FF] and saw exactly what it was about...not pretty, got fired the first minute, was not good at work with a SS amp at all either...just made bad sounds and noises.]
 I should be more inclusive when I type 'This FF sounds Great'.
 I should include stuff like...
 Throught the 4x12'' greenback reissue 1960 cab, Monster speaker cable to MkII head [modified for less spikey in forhed high treble], using monster guitar cables, and compared to the cable alone, cables with booster or different FF...In comparison it sounds great. Oh the other monster cable connects either 3 SC's or 2 Hb pickups.
 In addition...through the Boogie MkIII into 4x12' Gb's, wire nuts spliced speaker cable [probably satisfactory nonetheless], and decent enough [I guess?maybe not] instrument cables the sound was much different and sounded like either the amp [after extensive amp knob dialing] or the FF or [something] needed to be tweeked to compare with the sound I obtained with what I'd tweeked for My MkII Marshall and FF.
 Through the Frontman 25...after enduring extensive knob dialing sessions, the FF was immediately and permanently unplugged.
 After all, it could be a cable that was unknowedly to me interfering with all this testing, so the accuracy of my typing here is probably sketchy, at best it is just a briefing of experiences...but coupled with what I've read from other independant sources, may be of some use.

[triskadecaepyon]

2) Do fuzz faces sound like crap with a SS amp?
 I suppose it depends on whoe's answering, I think so, but only tried one once on a Fender Frontman 25. FF's cause interesting things to happen as far as distortion, when input to tube[s...I build a 1/2 Shaka, the tube part and run Distortions into it with successes.
 DMM readings will tell the tale of whether it's within operational bias parameters, the fact of distorted boosted signal is a pretty sure sign that the FF is probably wired correctly [though there are a couple mistakes possible that would still allow this].
 I don't suppose you trimpotted instead of using the 8K2 Q2CR...the DMM will help guage how necessary you think adjusting Q2C bias is.

Actually I did make that a trimpot;  all the other resistors on the board are socketed on the circuit too.  Small bear's values for the matched pair said 3.9K for the Q2C.  The only reason it really sounds bad is from problem 1: the low "buzz".  Otherwise I am happy with the sound.  Should I try to adjust the trimpot or go for a smaller value for the cap.?

[petemoore]

Trimpot tweedling for sure...
 1way set Q2C trimpot for 3k9 [Take the Q out]
 2...set trimpot for 4.5V-6.V or whatever sounds best [Q in, powered]
 3...set trimpot by ear, then measure for moot fun.
 {MEthod 1 is good cause then if the Q drifts bias it has some room before getting near the outside of a bias parameter,
 ...I've gone as far as to start cold, set bias, then recheck when warmed up, setting so the bias 'hangs in the middle during temperature variation.
 IIRC Q2C Voltage rises as the temperature of the transistors in a FF rises...IIRC

[triskadecaepyon]

my Q2 collector is around 6.9 V.  Is that the problem?

[petemoore]

Not if your battery is 12V

[triskadecaepyon]

it's a 9V battery.

[petemoore]

Tha's putting the collector at nearly 7/9ths of supply, it should be about 4.5v or 1/2 of 9v .