PAiA ring mod ? any good?

[solarplexus]

Hi there,

I was wondering if the PAiA kit for a ring mod is any good at all?  I was looking at the black cat ring mod, which is suposely a maestro remake.  Is that pedal any good also?  Is there a schematic or a layout to this circuit out there?

[John Lyons]

I'd imagine the PAIA ring mod is the same as the Craig anderton one.
I built it and it's pretty wild. It's a very "mathematical" sounding unit. It takes a lot of finese and practice to get it to work with your playing. Notes are out of tune easily and unless you are using quite subtle in your sound it gets to be a headache. There are a some useable sound for sure but it's a spice you have to use lightly. Unless you just want a noisemaker and tuning isn't a big thing. I think there is a lot of cool noise to be had with the unit for sure, just not for the weak at heart!

The cool sounds (to me) are:
Tuning the occilator to the root note of your song/solo etc.
Using it just under the volume of your main sound...adds resonance and an octave up or down type complexity to a sound.
Using it as a theremin type noisemaker (turning the "null" knob so it occillates freely)
Using the very high setting of the frequency knob...thins is the easiest setting to play with that won't sound out of tune. Think 1970's DEVO!

The Maestro Ring mod sounded a lot more musical and is a classic nice sounding guitar unit from what I have heard in sound samples. It can get crazy and wild like the PAIA/Craig Anderton (as far as I would think) But it has some nice resonance and playable yet wild sounds...

Hope this helps.

John

[toneman]

U wrote:
"I'd imagine the PAIA ring mod is the same as the Craig anderton
one. "

imagination is wonderfur, but.....    
the PAIA RM is based on the LM1496.
the recent, 9710, "Triple VCA/RM" is similar to the old 4710.
Both use a LM1496.
Anderton's RM uses a 565  PLL
see example here-.
http://www.lynx.bc.ca/~jc/pedalsBalancedMod.html
stayringed
tone

[troubledtom]

i have the frostwave ringmod and it is very cool ! the CA  one  i never got off the ground , bad chip or something. i love ringmods.
           peace,
                   -tom

[John Lyons]

Oh well. I assumed that the PAIA ring mod and Craig anderton were the ame since a lot of his stuff is on the paia site or offered as kits.

I have all the info and parts lists from GGG to build the Maestro ring mod, I've just been chickening out on taking the plunge with it.

I don't think there have been many people who have build it to ask questions...The info at General Guitar Gadgets is pretty thorough...I just need to do it!

John

[toneman]

The Maestro RM uses a hard to find chip.
it's *not* the 1496, but rather, the 1495.
this is a different chip....!!
Make sure U have one B4 U start 2 build.
I'd say, stick with the 9710...it's got a lot more options than "just" guitar.
AND, U can buy a Ready2build kit wthout front panel.
BTW,  It works on plus/minus12V....
staybalanced
tone

edited:
here's a sound sample from paia's site--
http://www.paia.com/9710dem3.wav

[moosapotamus]

All ring modulators are cool!

I've built the CA ring mod (audio clips on my website), sounds great. Needs bipolar power supply (+/-9V).

The black cat is also very cool, as I think someone already said... clean and mathematical sounding.

Now... somebody go bid on this (not my auction, already have them and they are both wicked cool).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7340619938&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

~ Charlie

[Mark Hammer]

Well, if I'm not mistaken, PAiA currently sells BOTH the old EPFM ring modulator as well as a more contemporary 1496-based item, so the confusion is understandable since there wasn't enough specific info in the initial posting.

I can only comment on the two different EPFM circuits, and will note that they are a lot of fun AND frustration.  They deliver lots of imagination for the money and time expended, but any ring modulator, regardless of level of sophistication, requires a degree of strategicness in approach that is a few notches up from the average plug-and-play pedal.  You can't just plug in and turn it to "More".  One generally also can't just set it and leave it on - you need to have a clear plan for how it will be used in the music.

That doesn't make it an "elitist" effect by any means, but in the same way that the best peripheral device you could ever have for any computer is friends with the same system who know what they're doing, the best feature on any ring modulator is one's knowledge of how they work and how to think about them.  In that respect, I would fully endorse ANY PAiA RM, since their stuff always comes with the sort of documentation to aid your thinking.

[Zero the hero]

Ring modulators are the coolest effect!
I've built the Maestro and I'm happy with it!

I was wondering how a full-transistorized ring modulator would sound, I've found the schematic of the VCS-3 ringmod.
I'm a bit scared of it cause I've never heard of such a build, I'm pretty sure that this design has lots of traps.
Anyone experienced?

[Vsat]

EMS VCS3 ringmod uses a multiplier chip.... however the ARP2600 ring mod is built around matched discrete transistors. Careful matching is very important else you will get carrier feedthru and dry signal feedthru (something not often mentioned, but just as objectionable as carrier feedthru IMHO).

Also, for potential Maestro builders... the MC1595 is the premium-grade version of the MC1495, with tighter specs, and can be used just as well... or better.
Cheers, Mike

[John Lyons]

I guess I wasn't too far off for saying the paia one was a craig anderton...

Mark, you're totallly correct. Anything can be used in the right place and with the disgression of where and how to use it. My dad always say "jimi hendrix could have used a 2x4 (house building lumber for those out of the country etc) and sounded good".

Zero the hero, did you build the Maestro from the GGG instructions? What is your rough skill level and did you have hang ups at all with building or tuning?

Vsat, thanks for the tip about the MC1595 being the one to get, any info I can get is golden!

Thanks

John

[Zero the hero]

Actually, I'm the author of that article and clicking on the oranges will lead you to an updated version of it.

There are lots of off-board connections and tuning is not very easy, but calibration can be done by ear with good results.

[solarplexus]

Does the PAiA ring mod includes an exp pedal output for sweeping frequencies?

[guitarhacknoise]

No, but I would imagine a switching jack connected betwixt the corresponding wires and the freq. pot would do it.
I would have to say that I'm in the same boat as Troubled Tom, I just never got the thing working right, been a main stay on the old "fix me" pile for a while now.

[guitarhacknoise]

I was looking it up in the EPFM and It may need those swithing jacks to be isolated?
or maybe a stereo switching jack.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=35668&highlight=expression+pedal

[John Lyons]

Zero the hero Thanks for updated info. I'm going to build this some time soon. Are you going to post the Sound clips again? They seem to be dead. THanks

Vsat For the Maestro Ring mod. Is the MC1595 a drop in replacement for the 1495 or are there and things that need to be done in order to substitute with it?

John

[Vsat]

John,
The 1595 is a drop-in replacement for the 1495.... they are actually the same chip - the 1595 was the more expensive part - it has been put through more testing and is packaged in ceramic instead of plastic. Probably won't hear much if any difference between the two in the Maestro, although in precision applications the 1595 would be the better choice.

Just mentioned this since the part may have  been overlooked by the 1495 searchers.
Cheers, Mike